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william-james88 wrote:

o.supreme wrote:Refraktor is definitely welcome among most fans I'd imagine. Coincidentally though, I'll stick with the Botcon 2016 legends Trio. They fit into my existing Combiner Theme, plus they do have a fan made camera mode so I get a double win there . Still, for every fan who wants 3 Siege Refraktors, I don't think there will be a supply issue.

It was a fan mode? I remember reporting it being official and even made specifically for Devastator to hold.

You talking about Siege, or BotCon 2016?

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

o.supreme wrote:Refraktor is definitely welcome among most fans I'd imagine. Coincidentally though, I'll stick with the Botcon 2016 legends Trio. They fit into my existing Combiner Theme, plus they do have a fan made camera mode so I get a double win there . Still, for every fan who wants 3 Siege Refraktors, I don't think there will be a supply issue.

It was a fan mode? I remember reporting it being official and even made specifically for Devastator to hold.

You talking about Siege, or BotCon 2016?

Aren't both Botcon and Siege official in the 3 in 1 camera mode?

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

o.supreme wrote:Refraktor is definitely welcome among most fans I'd imagine. Coincidentally though, I'll stick with the Botcon 2016 legends Trio. They fit into my existing Combiner Theme, plus they do have a fan made camera mode so I get a double win there . Still, for every fan who wants 3 Siege Refraktors, I don't think there will be a supply issue.

It was a fan mode? I remember reporting it being official and even made specifically for Devastator to hold.

You talking about Siege, or BotCon 2016?

Aren't both Botcon and Siege official in the 3 in 1 camera mode?

Siege is official, at the very least intentional like Soundwave's Lamppost mode. BotCon 2016... the ability is alluded to in the Tech Specs (plus their individual alt modes are described as cameras already), but no instructions were ever given, just encouragement from Hasbro to figure something out AFAIK.

Wolfman Jake wrote:

Microbot wrote:I want to know if I'm the only one crazy that will buy 3 Refraktor instead of one for being more classic cartoon accurate

I'd say most collectors are going for the Reflector trifecta. The better question would be, who is happy with just ONE Reflector for their collection?

Me, because I wasn't alive during G1 so I have no attachment to his original alt mode and I think a camera is a pretty rubbish altmode that serves no real purpose. I'm actually happy they gave Reflector a Megatron/Soundwave/Shockwave-style alt mode change, while keeping the option of the original for the G1 fans.

Wolfman Jake wrote:I'd love to see what the original Sunbow production bible said for Reflector. It's probably pretty specific about how many there are, if they're all separate entities or one mind controlling the collective, etc. Likely, all of the inconsistencies in the original cartoon are due to having multiple writers cranking out scripts as fast as possible, not bothering to read the production bible to make sure the characters are internally consistent. It's why we got anomalies like the occasional flying Autobot or three mutually exclusive origin stories for the Constructicons.

Reflector's entry from the production bible:

NOTE: TOY DISCONTINUED: DO NOT USE CHARACTER

NAME: REFLECTOR

FUNCTION: Reconaissance

TRANS-FORM: camera

ABILITIES: Highly developed infra-red vision...enables him to record images in total darkness and through camouflage, as well as from great distances. Powerful flash explosion leaves enemy temporarily blinded and disoriented for maximum of fifteen seconds. (In his robot mode, Reflector is 3 robots that speak together and combine as they transform into one camera.)

PROFILE: Tendancy to be distracted by visual complexities...intrigued with new challenges of Earth's topography. Impressed with his own ability...spies on comrades with probable intention of blackmail.

Though, TFWiki has this note:

At the script stage, Reflector was intended to be a singular robot who possessed the ability to split into three duplicates, identical save for the lens aperture in the chest of the robot who forms the center of their camera mode, who all act with the same mind and talk in unison, with the same voice. This ability was never shown on-screen, having apparently been consciously erased from the series: it was displayed in deleted scenes from "Divide and Conquer", "S.O.S. Dinobots", and "War of the Dinobots". However, "Divide and Conquer" did show the three robots re-combining, as the three components collide with one another and disappear until only one is left. Reflector was usually just seen in his triplicate state most of the time, but on rare occasions, he would appear as a single robot. His character model was also sometimes used for generic Decepticon troops.

With modern lore in mind, I wonder if a G1 toon-based Reflector with three bodies would be a case of someone having a 'Mitotic Spark' like the Duocons and Overlord but with three unique robot bodies and a combined altmode.

I imagine he/they would be quite the freaks by Cybertronian standards.

Nemesis Primal wrote:

Wolfman Jake wrote:

Microbot wrote:I want to know if I'm the only one crazy that will buy 3 Refraktor instead of one for being more classic cartoon accurate

I'd say most collectors are going for the Reflector trifecta. The better question would be, who is happy with just ONE Reflector for their collection?

Me, because I wasn't alive during G1 so I have no attachment to his original alt mode and I think a camera is a pretty rubbish altmode that serves no real purpose. I'm actually happy they gave Reflector a Megatron/Soundwave/Shockwave-style alt mode change, while keeping the option of the original for the G1 fans.

That's fair. I've been flip flopping between getting 1 and 3 because I love the camera mode, but I don't like them all being identical with the only difference being whether or not the stomach shutter is there. Plus, if it wasn't for the individual alt modes, I'd probably be in the same boat as you with the camera mode, despite me loving its look

I thought reflector was mainly just 1 character that just replicated himself as he wished

william-james88 wrote:I thought reflector was mainly just 1 character that just replicated himself as he wished

That image is from the pilot three-parter that had tons of generics bolstering the ranks of the Decepticons. That image alone has multiple Rumble/Frenzy redecos and one light purple Seeker in addition to the main three.

And even in the series proper, there was never any consistency regarding Reflector's onscreen depiction.

Sabrblade wrote:Reflector's entry from the production bible:

NOTE: TOY DISCONTINUED: DO NOT USE CHARACTER

Sunbow: "Whoopsies!"

Wolfman Jake wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:Reflector's entry from the production bible:

NOTE: TOY DISCONTINUED: DO NOT USE CHARACTER

Sunbow: "Whoopsies!"

Well, that "Whoopsies" has brought us an 80's camera toy in the age of smartphones.

Can’t wait for springer, he’s much more accurate to his g1 self than the thrilling 30s figure. The latter was good in its own right but he was fiddly and gets a few of his panels stuck. If I go transform him now, he’s not much fun. Regarding the colours, the toys were always a bit more garish but I’m thinking these particular photos are a bit over saturated as well and the figures will be ever so slightly more muted.

Refractor is cool but in cost cutting I ordered just the one... though I’m very tempted to see if I can get another 2. Might’ve preferred him to be legends class...

Brunt is looking good, but yea we need a slammer, preferably one that combines with metroplex’s city mode... maybe instead of a tower he could be some sort of step with a ramp to attach to metrplex’s poorly designed black ramp

Wolfman Jake wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

blackeyedprime wrote:Pretty sure one of the cyberverse figures with the vehicle armor has slammer covered so I'd rather see brunt repainted silver (battlestar galacticish) and maybe even have a red handprint on him

Ooh? Which one?

I would like to know this as well!

I'm guessing the tank that comes with Jetfire, but it isn't white enough for me. I'll hold out for a Brunt repaint.



Emerje

I still say nuts to doing Slammer as a Brunt repaint. We already have a Metroplex Weaponizer and Brunt's tank mode doesn't match Slammer at all. Which is kind of a big dealbreaker considering that Slammer's tank mode is really all he has. He's a tank whose body and turret separate to become a couple of tower tops (that Brunt's parts don't particularly resemble either) for Metroplex... and that's all he is. He has no robot mode, no face, no signature markings... Just that tank mode. And so resembling it is the only way to resemble him

Sabrblade wrote:And even in the series proper, there was never any consistency regarding Reflector's onscreen depiction.

Lets be honest here, there was just no consistency in that show in general

Wolfman Jake wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

blackeyedprime wrote:Pretty sure one of the cyberverse figures with the vehicle armor has slammer covered so I'd rather see brunt repainted silver (battlestar galacticish) and maybe even have a red handprint on him

Ooh? Which one?

I would like to know this as well!

Cyber verse jet fire, the tank it comes with looks to be greenish but depending how the final product turns out or if there is a repaint down the line. He might be more suggestive of armada demolished to some, but the way the gun barrels highlighted in silver just reminds me of slammer. I'm on mobile so it's a pain to link images

I'm still not sold on refraktors scale to be picking up 3 of him, just the 1 and either third party options for smaller bits or sale for the other two to complete it. It's hard to resist getting an official refraktor/all three figures as a standard retail release tho. I have the make toys mp version permenantly in camera mode (not just because it took ages to get into camera mode) for nostalgia and personal reasons tho I went for that version originally for the optional different facial expressions to make each bot more individual.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:I still say nuts to doing Slammer as a Brunt repaint...He's a tank whose body and turret separate to become a couple of tower tops (that Brunt's parts don't particularly resemble either) for Metroplex... and that's all he is. He has no robot mode, no face, no signature markings... Just that tank mode. And so resembling it is the only way to resemble him

Brunt was originally just a tank for Trypticon as well. All it did was split up to form towers for the city mode. It had no robot mode or face. If Brunt can get that kind of an upgrade with SIEGE, i.e., his own robot mode and distinct identity, then why not Slammer too? Slammer doesn't have to be just a repaint of Brunt either. He can be a retool or even a completely new mold. A lot of fans love the Weaponizers so far, so they of course want more, and Slammer is a good candidate for "more."

blackeyedprime wrote:I'm still not sold on refraktors scale to be picking up 3 of him, just the 1 and either third party options for smaller bits or sale for the other two to complete it.

Consider this screen shot from the original cartoon posted yesterday to this thread:



Reflector looks to be about Deluxe sized next to the Seekers, who are at Voyager scale now in SIEGE. I was thrown off too when Reflector was first announced as a Deluxe Class figure, but after doing some research, it does make perfect sense with the cartoon scale in mind. Also note that Reflector stands a bit shorter than a standard Deluxe Class figure because he comes with some rather large accessories to fill out the plastic budget, so he won't be standing eye-to-eye with the Autbot cars, but he will be noticeable taller than Soundwave's cassettes, as he should be.

Yeah, the cassettes were the big thing that convinced me that Deluxe is better than Legends. The TR cassettes and even Autobot minibots should be noticeably shorter. I wish he would scale better with the Classics seeker mold, but all things considered, I think this will be the best fit not just for Siege but for most cartoon era CHUG collections.

Wolfman Jake wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:I still say nuts to doing Slammer as a Brunt repaint...He's a tank whose body and turret separate to become a couple of tower tops (that Brunt's parts don't particularly resemble either) for Metroplex... and that's all he is. He has no robot mode, no face, no signature markings... Just that tank mode. And so resembling it is the only way to resemble him

Brunt was originally just a tank for Trypticon as well. All it did was split up to form towers for the city mode. It had no robot mode or face. If Brunt can get that kind of an upgrade with SIEGE, i.e., his own robot mode and distinct identity, then why not Slammer too? Slammer doesn't have to be just a repaint of Brunt either. He can be a retool or even a completely new mold. A lot of fans love the Weaponizers so far, so they of course want more, and Slammer is a good candidate for "more."

I don't think Zelda's point was that Slammer should only be a tank, but that if they're gonna make a new toy of him, robot mode or not, it needs to actually resemble the one mode Slammer originally had, so a Brunt redeco wouldn't be a good choice.

Wolfman Jake wrote:

blackeyedprime wrote:I'm still not sold on refraktors scale to be picking up 3 of him, just the 1 and either third party options for smaller bits or sale for the other two to complete it.

Consider this screen shot from the original cartoon posted yesterday to this thread:



Reflector looks to be about Deluxe sized next to the Seekers, who are at Voyager scale now in SIEGE. I was thrown off too when Reflector was first announced as a Deluxe Class figure, but after doing some research, it does make perfect sense with the cartoon scale in mind. Also note that Reflector stands a bit shorter than a standard Deluxe Class figure because he comes with some rather large accessories to fill out the plastic budget, so he won't be standing eye-to-eye with the Autbot cars, but he will be noticeable taller than Soundwave's cassettes, as he should be.

I still remember starscreaam manhandling one of the little reflector guys into the pod to test the space bridge. No real kind of scaling to transformers with their shrink chips and even when they supposedly go by scale, the character could have been taller or shorter in another refference. Maybe if they do new earth mode seekers as voyagers it will fit better, but until then I'm preffering smaller representations for display.

Jeddostotle7 wrote:

Wolfman Jake wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:I still say nuts to doing Slammer as a Brunt repaint...He's a tank whose body and turret separate to become a couple of tower tops (that Brunt's parts don't particularly resemble either) for Metroplex... and that's all he is. He has no robot mode, no face, no signature markings... Just that tank mode. And so resembling it is the only way to resemble him

Brunt was originally just a tank for Trypticon as well. All it did was split up to form towers for the city mode. It had no robot mode or face. If Brunt can get that kind of an upgrade with SIEGE, i.e., his own robot mode and distinct identity, then why not Slammer too? Slammer doesn't have to be just a repaint of Brunt either. He can be a retool or even a completely new mold. A lot of fans love the Weaponizers so far, so they of course want more, and Slammer is a good candidate for "more."

I don't think Zelda's point was that Slammer should only be a tank, but that if they're gonna make a new toy of him, robot mode or not, it needs to actually resemble the one mode Slammer originally had, so a Brunt redeco wouldn't be a good choice.

Re-read specifically what I'm responding to ZeldaTheSwordsman about. He said that Slammer was just a tank with no robot mode or face. I said that Brunt was the same in G1, but he's been reimagined as a Weaponizer with a robot mode (and face). The same can be done for Slammer. I also said that Slammer doesn't have to be a repaint or retool or Brunt and can be a completely new mold, but that there's no reason he has to be just a tank accessory with no robot mode, like he or Brunt used to be, that he can be a Weaponizer now, like Brunt got "upgraded" to.

Wolfman Jake wrote:

Jeddostotle7 wrote:

Wolfman Jake wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:I still say nuts to doing Slammer as a Brunt repaint...He's a tank whose body and turret separate to become a couple of tower tops (that Brunt's parts don't particularly resemble either) for Metroplex... and that's all he is. He has no robot mode, no face, no signature markings... Just that tank mode. And so resembling it is the only way to resemble him

Brunt was originally just a tank for Trypticon as well. All it did was split up to form towers for the city mode. It had no robot mode or face. If Brunt can get that kind of an upgrade with SIEGE, i.e., his own robot mode and distinct identity, then why not Slammer too? Slammer doesn't have to be just a repaint of Brunt either. He can be a retool or even a completely new mold. A lot of fans love the Weaponizers so far, so they of course want more, and Slammer is a good candidate for "more."

I don't think Zelda's point was that Slammer should only be a tank, but that if they're gonna make a new toy of him, robot mode or not, it needs to actually resemble the one mode Slammer originally had, so a Brunt redeco wouldn't be a good choice.

Re-read specifically what I'm responding to ZeldaTheSwordsman about. He said that Slammer was just a tank with no robot mode or face. I said that Brunt was the same in G1, but he's been reimagined as a Weaponizer with a robot mode (and face). The same can be done for Slammer. I also said that Slammer doesn't have to be a repaint or retool or Brunt and can be a completely new mold, but that there's no reason he has to be just a tank accessory with no robot mode, like he or Brunt used to be, that he can be a Weaponizer now, like Brunt got "upgraded" to.

I think Brunt could work if reshelled. Weaponizers would be even easier to retool than ordinary figures.

Since the new wave is finally making it into people's hands, I posted a few pics of Refraktor for those of you on the fence.

https://twitter.com/RwCJesse/status/113 ... 98977?s=19

Since I've played around with Siege Starscream I've been wondering how they could do coneheads. Yes, the 'shell' in vehicle mode could easily accomodate new wings but what about the iconic conehead itself. Is there a way it can fit?

Doubt Hasbro would release 'toy-inspired' coneheads which have the regular seeker head. Yes I'm aware the G1 seeker mold could be transformed to have or not have the cone head (the toon animation added this part of kibble to make the new seekers different and it stuck) but their toy artwork show them with regular seeker heads.