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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Tigatron had a lot of interesting concepts and ideas to him... Which would have worked better as Polar Claw or Wolfang. Especially during Season One, I think they could have swapped out the one note Cheetor for him.

Having Tigatron was cheaper than making an entirely new model for either Polarclaw or Wolfang

Rainmaker wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Tigatron had a lot of interesting concepts and ideas to him... Which would have worked better as Polar Claw or Wolfang. Especially during Season One, I think they could have swapped out the one note Cheetor for him.

Having Tigatron was cheaper than making an entirely new model for either Polarclaw or Wolfang

The sad but true fact of making a cartoon, using an expensive method, to a budget. Though I think AllNew is talking about an imagined scenario where money wasn't a factor.

Indeed. As we all know about the show models, hence the entire reason Tigatron and Blackarachnia came into being at all. It was weird to look back at the toyline in relation to the show. Polar Claw was clearly set up in promo shots etc to be the "rival" to Scorponok and in the end, Tigatron was used and Scorponok ended up with no real rival at all. Which I think ultimately adversely affected the character, leaving us with the one character who took a 'magma dunk' and no one cared...

Coptur wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
Well, the deaths in The Agenda were in part down to Mainframe not knowing if they would get a Season 3. Hence Rampage and Inferno being virtually incinerated and being perfectly fine in the next episode.
Much in the same way Tarantulas and Tigerhawk were killed off so quickly in Season 3.

The 'Unicron Spawn' line will always be contentious. A slur, no doubt. But some always read more into things than others. Like how some fans accredit Beast Wars with having links to the G1/G2 comics, purely based on what those behind the scenes have said after the fact. To me, the show has no links to the comics, because it was never featured or directly referenced in a single episode. Which is the only source that counts.

As for Terrorsaur, there was actually an episode of Animated that gave me an idea on where he might have gone. Wherein Starscream created his own clone/Seeker brigade. That could have worked for him. Also elaborating more on the Season one idea of Cybertronian intellect being overtaken by the more bestial nature of the organics integrated in them. As for Scorponok, leave him where he sank...


As an aside, I do hold out the faintest hope that one day we might get a Masterpiece Beast Wars Ravage from The Agenda. One that transforms from a vague TM Cheetor body mold into a Cassette.

We all love a cliffhanger ending... LOL. Tarantulas made it 10/11 episodes Tigahawk was pointless for me nothing than more "hey kids look at this toy".

Honestly (for me) the Unicorn line for me was nothing more than a slur and taken way out of context, I honestly cannot express how much I hate the Tarantulas/Unicron thing. For me there should've/could've been a Quintesson to me they make more sense than Unicron. (I literally wrote a sequel to BM in 2001/2002 with a friend [probably awful] using the Qunitessons). Could agree more about the G2 thing another thing taken way out of context, keep the Vok away from the the Swarm .

Yeah I can see Terrorsaur doing that with a few of the other status pods Lazorbeak & Fractyl come to mind. Then I guess Tarantulas tried to do the the with spiders early season 1. The more I look at the Cybertron series Dark Scorponok I think that could've been BW Scorponoks badass/gone mad Transmetal 1 or 2 body.

I really shouldn't risk getting this thread any more off topic, but the slur-out-of-context theory for "Unicron-Spawn" has been bugging me ever since I saw it uncontested on TFWiki, so I feel the need to post a reminder of its actual context in the show: In the previous episode, Tarantulas told Tigerhawk that he and the Tripredicus council weren't descended from Autobots or Decepticons, unlike most Maximals and Predacons. That was an odd enough tidbit of info to drop that it left the viewer assuming we'd soon learn just what those origins were. So, while Megatron calling Tarantulas "Unicron Spawn" in the following episode did indeed sound derogatory, it also sounded like the other shoe dropping. I'm not crazy about injecting Unicron into the BW mythos in that way either, to me it actually takes more fanwank to say it was just a slur, because you'd have to just make something up to explain what Tarantulas and the Council's origins actually were.

I do agree that the Swarm reforming into the Vok doesn't work at all, but Forward seemed to actively negate DiTillio's original idea in The Agenda once it was clear that prehistoric Earth had The Ark on it, so I don't see where that's even much of an issue.

But it's great that so much of this is debatable. THE best thing about the show was that its references had just the right level of ambiguity that allowed it to be the future of Marvel or Sunbow continuity, whichever one prefers. Have Starscream's spark possess someone without explaining why he can do this like in "Starscream's Ghost" and "Ghost in the Machine" in Season 1, then have Season 2 establish that his spark was indestructible due to mutation like how absorbing the Underbase allowed him to linger on as a zombie in "Race With The Devil"? Perfect! No need to even pick a definite timeline for it to work. While fictional multiverses in general tend to splinter off into ever greater messes with older threads forgotten or occasionally wiped out "Crisis" style, this one show magically brought all of the greatest TF universes together to save the whole franchise in its darkest hour!

Then Beast Machines tried to undo that by making too many Sunbow references, which to me makes it even more despicable that Pat Lee for the amount of damage it could've inflicted -- but that's a separate issue from the toyline, so please do make that list in the near future will.

Soooo, getting back to the non-show toys, I was trying so hard to avoid any show characters that I forgot how much I loved Transmetal Terrorsaur, upgraded into a cross between G1 Thrust and Evangelion Unit-1. In my headcanon, as no doubt many others, he indeed got out of the magma in time to lead a splinter faction of most of the other non-show Pred toys, which then...failed to accomplish much.

So my revised top 5 would be both Spittors tied for #1, then TM Terrorsaur, Manterror, Jetstorm, and finally replace Cybershark and Powerpinch with Razorclaw (the Fiddler Crab, not the mean green Wolverine) for #5. Nice complexity for a basic, and unless he somehow gets the Masterpiece treatment, I doubt any other toy will ever be able to boast crab-tail-diaper-articulation.

There were so many bugs in the Predacon ranks that went unsung. Clearly some kind of linked setting was considered early on, ala likely through the micro continuity comic that came with Bat Primal and Gator Megs. We'll never know where that one would have gone.

In as much as I love Spittor and Iguanus (base and TM2) Cybershark deserves his due at Number One. A character design essentially cheated out of the spotlight and probably the second best Maximal toy of the Base figures overall, after Gorilla Primal.

@Bumblevivisector
I guess my issue is BW Megatron never showed any prior knowledge of Tarantulas being anything other that a Predacon (descendant of Decepticon) he wasn't even aware that Tarantulas was mole in his organisation. How would he know of any unicron connection simple answer he wouldn't.

The way I've always viewed it (and imo how it was originally intended) Megatron is showing his complete and utter contempt of Tarantulas character and actions especially given the situation he finds himself in at that point of the series thus referring to him the Son of Satan (in his world perspective) what better way to sum up someone that has ultimately left you in the s***.

A cybertron free of Autobots and Decepticon would better serve a Quintesson agenda not a Unicron one his would be more focused on the Matrix/HotRod less future a focus Tarantulas doesn't refer to.

hmm top five non US show toys
i always liked Razorclaw(Crab), Snapper, Scourge, B'Boom & Claw Jaw
Best Mutant - Poison Bite

Ah but if he got rid of the cons and bots then there's no matrix so unicron wins there. I'm also glad they didn't go with the quints as I found them boring and more one note then Unicron! Even the comics couldn't find any good for them.

Also megs was pretty smart, how do you know he didn't deduce what tarantulus origin was when he learned of the plan?

A fan explanation as any but given how old the content is, I think it's safe to say we can make it fit anything we want.

I always found the characters around them more interesting than the Quints themselves. The Sharkticons, Allicons, Executioner etc A lot of untapped lore potential in them. I went into it with my own stories a lot more than Sunbow or the Marvel run did. I would have loved figures of them (more than just Gnaw) and I know "3P" blah, blah, blah.. But I'd want HasTak to acknowledge them with a figure. That weird Unicron Trilogy Q thing doesn't count either.

Meanwhile, as for the above, you've lost me a bit? Tarantulas plan to destroy the Ark doesn't leave Cybertron empty. The planet would still be teeming with the majority of the Cybertronian race. There were about 20-ish bots on the Ark, that's it.

But it would get rid of the matrix I can understand what you're saying about the non-quint but quint allied but unless they have alt modes I don't think hasbro care (or weapon modes or can turn into a ramp)

I think Razorbeast deserves a mention, i do wish i had him since he's a great way to have a Transformers toy that reminds me of Pumba, one of the most funniest disney characters.

The early promo material did seem to indicate Razorbeast would be filling the roll that would eventually go to Rhinox. He is another one though, like Spittor, Iguanus and Cybershark, I would have liked to see roll over into TM2 and what kind of design they would have given him.

ZeroWolf wrote:But it would get rid of the matrix

But the Matrix was only a Unicron problem. Who knows, through Unicron's random travels in The Movie, he might never have even found Cybertron Shockwave's Cybertron..

I can understand what you're saying about the non-quint but quint allied but unless they have alt modes I don't think hasbro care (or weapon modes or can turn into a ramp)

Sometimes, it doesn't even matter if they have an altmode or not. Let alone if you saw them first in The Movie...

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:But it would get rid of the matrix

But the Matrix was only a Unicron problem. Who knows, through Unicron's random travels in The Movie, he might never have even found Cybertron Shockwave's Cybertron..

He eventually would have by process of random elimination. That scenario is actually explored by the N64 version of the Beast Wars Transmetals game, in one of the character endings.

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:But it would get rid of the matrix

But the Matrix was only a Unicron problem. Who knows, through Unicron's random travels in The Movie, he might never have even found Cybertron Shockwave's Cybertron..

He eventually would have by process of random elimination. That scenario is actually explored by the N64 version of the Beast Wars Transmetals game, in one of the character endings.

I often forget that game existed, I can't even remember if that got released in the UK.

Yeah, I don't think it did make it over here. Still I did look up the endings some time ago (when I discovered the game's existence vis the Wiki). For some reason, I liked the Terrorsaur ending the best. It really summed up his character and where his Season One characterisation would have led.

Starscream and Ravage had the most interesting endings from a Lore perspective.

The Wiki wrote:Ravage: He betrayed Megatron, seized the Ark, and began cloning all the dormant Decepticons into new forms. Now he plans to take this army back to future Cybertron: it's time for the Decepticons to conquer time itself!

^ Another potential Season Three, right there!
Imagine all the palette swapped non-show toys that could have been brought into play.


The fact the default ending (and English version in general) had the actual voice cast is impressive to me still. Especially given the ...VO of the first Beast Wars game

ZeroWolf wrote:Ah but if he got rid of the cons and bots then there's no matrix so unicron wins there. I'm also glad they didn't go with the quints as I found them boring and more one note then Unicron! Even the comics couldn't find any good for them.

Also megs was pretty smart, how do you know he didn't deduce what tarantulus origin was when he learned of the plan?

A fan explanation as any but given how old the content is, I think it's safe to say we can make it fit anything we want.

Thing Unicron / Hot Rod are tied to a prophecy to light the darkest hour. Yes the matrix is important to these but it could've survived the Nemesis attack. Still allowing Hot Rod to light the darkest hour.

Yeah Megatron is smart but there's literally nothing to work with given the closeness of Tarantulas's death and the the ending of the series. It's also never really covered why the Vox bothered with Cybertronoans to begin with.

But to be honest I need to rewatch the series in full.

Yeah I would love an official Quintesson toy.

Neither PlayStation or N64 game were released in the UK. I've got the PS version in Japanese and a Rom of the N64 game

The first beast wars game was given a pal release but I'm going to guess that it didn't sell enough to get them to localise the sequel. Which is odd considering the games we did get released Pal which couldn't have sold more than Beast wars like Gundam Battle Assault. C'est la vie.

Still I would like to see the world that must exist where beast wars got a much bigger budget, thus allowing more characters to appear, to see which characters were added and even what new toys could have resulted.

Might be a bit late, but let me chime in and say that taking 'Unicron's spawn' as anything more than Megatron calling Tarantulas a son of a ***** threw me for one hell of a loop when I first found the online Transformers community way back at the Turn of the Millennium. Yeah, it's kinda neat sometimes to ponder stuff and take a deeper meaning, but other times...

It's always just been a petty insuelt to me, and how it got built up in the fandom and officially baffles me to this day.

Well the creators probably saw the fan interpretation, realised it was better then the insult and ran with it. Or more precisely, didn't shut it down. As I do find the Unicron comment much better then just a slur. It helps to hint at other things.

Then again why would unicron even be a slur to begin with since he was blasted into pieces and his place as the transformers devil was only cemented by Furman in the Marvel run.

ZeroWolf wrote:Well the creators probably saw the fan interpretation, realised it was better then the insult and ran with it. Or more precisely, didn't shut it down. As I do find the Unicron comment much better then just a slur. It helps to hint at other things.

Then again why would unicron even be a slur to begin with since he was blasted into pieces and his place as the transformers devil was only cemented by Furman in the Marvel run.

It's not better. it's different, but it's not better. Quite frankly I prefer it 'just' being an insult.

As for why Unicron's spawn would be an insult? Even going by the cartoon, dude shows up, devours two of Cybertron's moons, turns Galvatron into Megatron and then tries to renovate Cybertron the hard way. I can see why it would catch on.

ZeroWolf wrote:The first beast wars game was given a pal release but I'm going to guess that it didn't sell enough to get them to localise the sequel. Which is odd considering the games we did get released Pal which couldn't have sold more than Beast wars like Gundam Battle Assault. C'est la vie.

Still I would like to see the world that must exist where beast wars got a much bigger budget, thus allowing more characters to appear, to see which characters were added and even what new toys could have resulted.

Yeah the 3rd person game got pal PS and PC release but the metals fighting game PS was Japan only (?!?) And the N64 version which is a different game story etc was from I've read only available to rent in blockbusters in the USA.

The reason I chose quintessons. Look up the logo/ image on the side of tarantulas spider drones in 'optimal situation' looks quite close to the quint face of death and in both US and Japanese G1 continuity the original predacons are introduced (created) by the Quintessons. Yes, I'm aware tantrum appears in the five face of darkness part1 but given the catalogue of animation errors in that 5 parter I think this can be taken as an error seeing they were formerly introduced to Skylynx by the Quints in part4 or 5.

Rogue-Primal wrote:I think Razorbeast deserves a mention, i do wish i had him since he's a great way to have a Transformers toy that reminds me of Pumba, one of the most funniest disney characters.

Super glad someone else feels this way, Razorbeast is a fun toy and a wonderful basic

For their era most of the beast wars figures are still very good.

yeah there is a few duds but that's always bound to happen.

Favourite/Definitive Optimus Primal body - personally i live the original Gorilla body

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

Rogue-Primal wrote:I think Razorbeast deserves a mention, i do wish i had him since he's a great way to have a Transformers toy that reminds me of Pumba, one of the most funniest disney characters.

Super glad someone else feels this way, Razorbeast is a fun toy and a wonderful basic

I have now convinced myself the designer had lion King on the brain when designing razorbeast. I'm also imagining that the meerkat maximal sadly never went past the design phase

ZeroWolf wrote:

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

Rogue-Primal wrote:I think Razorbeast deserves a mention, i do wish i had him since he's a great way to have a Transformers toy that reminds me of Pumba, one of the most funniest disney characters.

Super glad someone else feels this way, Razorbeast is a fun toy and a wonderful basic

I have now convinced myself the designer had lion King on the brain when designing razorbeast. I'm also imagining that the meerkat maximal sadly never went past the design phase

Well, great. Now I need a Lion King/Transformers crossover.

A Meerkat Maximal (Maxikat? Meerximal?) would be so awesome.

That was a great thing about the non show characters, the amount of potential beasts to turn into is fantastic