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Wonder what the GI Joe line would be to carry the theme on

ZeroWolf wrote:Wonder what the GI Joe line would be to carry the theme on

G.I. Joe Classified series is already a thing.

Okay so, even being kinda drunk, I DID understand everything there was to know about the R.E.D thing...am I the only one who thinks that name is kinda dumb?

Nemesis Maximo wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Wonder what the GI Joe line would be to carry the theme on

G.I. Joe Classified series is already a thing.

Okay so, even being kinda drunk, I DID understand everything there was to know about the R.E.D thing...am I the only one who thinks that name is kinda dumb?

Come on, it's easy.

Robots Establish Dillydamdillydum.

Or something.

Having thought on this, I can't help but wonder what the point of these is. They don't transform, which is fair enough, but they're not really any more articulated than their transforming counterparts (certainly not enough to justify not transforming), and barely more accurate. They aren't doing anything unusual with the designs to take advantage of not having to transform like the Furai Models did, or even going for IDW or other source material, it's just more Sunbow. They're clearly not aimed at kids so it's not even like they have the shampoo bottle excuse. Honestly, this seems like the most unnecessary thing Hasbro has done in a while.

Edit: all this time typing and Black Hat makes the same point much more succinctly in the post just above this one, so maybe just read that instead of this wall of text

Rant incoming, though I prefer to think of it as "I've had time to think on this and my thoughts and feelings about it are complicated."

I had a think on what strikes me as so wrong, poor and stupid about what these are. Why do I feel that way? I'm staring at my nearly-finished Flame Toys Seekers right now, they don't bug me and the final product is basically the same, not to mention they cost twice as much! Tiny Titans didn't bother me and they're not even articulated. What the heck is making my brain sort of loathe the idea of these R.E.D. dudes? There are a few things that come into play, for me.

First up, I wanted to think about why other non-transforming products haven't really bothered me. For the most part, it's probably because these are licensed products, making them nearly objectively exist as supplements to the Hasbro Transformers line. Jada has made some downright cool die cast vehicles of Movie cast and G1 Optimus. Obviously these don't transform, but they provide alt modes of the real world vehicles with nice detail. Even then, some of them have the R.P.M. style robot sculpt on the bottom. Licensees such as 3A and the aforementioned Flame Toys have produced a great deal of "high end" non-transforming figures, and of course there are model kits like Kotobukiya's D-Style and again FT. Many of these offer something actually unique and serve markets that Hasbro doesn't seem interested in. 3A is implicitly niche considering the cost, and if you're like me and enjoy Gunpla, it's fun to have a Transformers option to mix up that hobby before building the 89,000th RX-78-2 variant. The list could go on here, with Funko's ReAction lineup just recently starting to introduce crappy 5 PoA G1 Transformers. I'm sure as a licensee they're super pleased to see licensor Hasbro themselves jumping into a similar space, but Funko at least gets to keep the Cool Hipster Garbage Product market.

For official products, non-transforming options have also been easy to look at as supplementary products, but more importantly these have been easy to view as specifically kid-friendly products that allow kids to play with Transformers in different ways or with other kids that are into different things. I mentioned R.P.M.s earlier as one example. I would have loved it if something similar existed when I was a kid. I loved Transformers and my older brother loved Hot Wheels/Matchbox/basically anything with four wheels. Since he was the older brother, I'd have no choice at times but to play along with whatever Hot Wheels thing he did. I'd always grab the lone Stunticon in the childhood collection (Wildrider, for the curious) but still be told plenty of times to stop transforming him into a robot at every chance, because robots didn't exist in Hot Wheels world, obviously. Before this anecdote rambles too much more, my point is that I can see a clear purpose in these kinds of kids toys.

Most of Hasbro's non-transforming kids toy options over the years provide this kind of clear purpose. Kreo is building blocks, Hero Mashers as a mix-and-match style thing to create whimsical nonsense combinations, Tiny Titans offered some pretty cool little RiD '15 trading cards on top of their trading figure appeal, the '07 Movie and RotF Robot Replicas went for the insane metal shrapnel detail look the characters had in the movies long before Movie Masterpiece existed as it does now - this could go on and there are many examples not listed here, but point's hopefully made. There's almost always something offered in non-transforming toys that wasn't available in the others that, while not usually something massively appealing to Transformers fans, at least provided a reason for their existence beyond "make more money if we can."

Next in my reasons for being oddly bothered by these toys is that they're yet another example of Transformers failing to expand itself by innovation, with the chasing of a trend being the chosen route instead. There's a lengthy, usually poor history of this going all the way back to Micro Masters (a rare case of not chasing a trend poorly, in my opinion), and yes, the infamous Action Masters. Transformers is late to the party again here making them feel like an uninvited guest for yet one more reason on top of possibly not belonging there in the first place. Late in fully embracing 80s nostalgia, late to the Netflix party, late to the blind-bag craze, late to toys-to-life (remember Angry Birds Transformers?), and by the time they're done being late to embracing 90s nostalgia the world will probably have moved on from it. Market saturation of these '6" scale figures' has to be approaching a tipping point.

Why would Hasbro want to inject Transformers into this segment of a segment of the toy market? Obviously, to make money of course, but I'd guess to appeal to collectors that don't currently buy Transformers. I think this misses a key point about why Marvel Legends, Star Wars Black Series, whatever the MotU equivalent is called, and MMPR's Lightning collection are successful and why the similar new lines for G.I. Joe and Gundam make sense for those brands. When I think about Star Wars toys during the prequels/Clone Wars to pre-Sequels era or Power Rangers before Hasbro acquired the license, I think of gimmicky toys. Want a straight-up action figure of the Red Ranger without any frills, or an R2-D2 that isn't battery powered with lights, sounds, and Comm-Tech or whatever compatibility? Go online and hope there's a Figuarts or something because it probably wasn't on the shelf at any given time (note: I don't know if those examples are technically correct, so substitute some other popular character from those franchises if not for the sake of the thought exercise.) The important note here is that I don't collect those lines, but if I wanted some kind of base line, good quality figure from them not riddled with gimmicks, I know where to turn now despite being an outsider to collecting it.

Cyberverse is a good example of what I just mentioned within Transformers itself. How many here didn't collect anything from the line because everything was gimmick-ed up kid stuff? Probably a good number. How many of you have or have at least seriously considered a Deluxe Class Cyberverse toy? Probably a good percentage of that number. Do I need to spell out why that is? You know the Deluxe Class figures are base line, good quality, not gimmick-riddled entries for Cyberverse and that makes them more broadly appealing to collectors.

There was an important point at the end of the second-to-last paragraph above this one - knowing where to go to collect the occasional product from another line despite not being a regular purchaser of said products. That's a justification I can understand, but I'm not sure it works for Transformers. Ignoring vehicles (Star Wars, GI Joe) and Zords (MMPR), the heart of a Star Wars, GI Joe, Marvel, Power Rangers, or Masters of the Universe toy collection is figures of the characters. The current 6" lines for these are the product of a natural evolution over time of collector lines that have increasingly struck at the core of what these brands are. Many Darth Vader figures also include a helmet that can be removed because duh didn't you watch Return of the Jedi? Professor X figures would come with a wheelchair because of course they would (hey you - I know there are versions of the character that don't have it, it's just an example!) If they make a Shipwreck figure in Classified, I'd expect it would come with Polly even though the line isn't dedicated to the animals of GI Joe. Those things are a core, essential element of who those characters are so you assume and hope as an outsider to those hobbies that these basic elements are covered.

This R.E.D. series leaves behind a core, essential element of who and what the Transformers are - they transform. This separates them from the pack of other '6" scale' figures in what I think is an important way. To me, this makes them feel like they're appealing to a very limited audience. Are these the no-frills, good quality, not gimmick-laden go-to Transformers? No, of course not, they're all missing their T-Cogs! That's not a gimmick, it's literally part of what makes Transformers what it is. Perhaps the fact that it's launching as a retailer-exclusive speaks volumes about the actual broad appeal, though it's always possible Walmart specifically wanted something like this because parents bought a bunch of those $5 Titan Guardians, who knows. Assuming these were not shopped as an exclusive by Hasbro's sales agents - which is a big assumption, I know - we could maybe presume that Target, Amazon, Walgreens, Meijer, and everyone else big enough to matter also thought these were a poor idea with limited appeal.

Hasbro and Walmart are good at making money, so they must know something I don't. What I do know is that these don't appeal to me whatsoever as a Transformers fan, though they likely weren't meant to. The weird personal wrinkle is that I'm the oddball that buys everything - those aforementioned R.P.M.s, Hero Mashers, and so on? I have them. Guess I'm not that guy anymore!

My opinion is that these will also be unappealing to people that are not already Transformers fans or collectors either, and time will tell if I'm right or not. It's probably 50/50.

There's a time and place for non-transforming figures in Transformers toys, and it's the niche of comic and TV characters that never had an alt mode to begin with. From all known information, this line is not that and won't be that - but I reserve the right to no longer agree with my own opinions from this post if it becomes that.

tl;dr better dead than R.E.D. or something

TlDr, there's TONS of non-transforming characters in the TF universe. Humans, monsters, and even some robots. Why not make those instead of the same 5 characters over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over,............... .

-Kanrabat- wrote:TlDr, there's TONS of non-transforming characters in the TF universe. Humans, monsters, and even some robots. Why not make those instead of the same 5 characters over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over,............... .

Because retailers want the big name characters who keep bringing in the big ones.

I would be tempted IF they were charging less for these.

Glarryg

Sabrblade wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:TlDr, there's TONS of non-transforming characters in the TF universe. Humans, monsters, and even some robots. Why not make those instead of the same 5 characters over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over,............... .

Because retailers want the big name characters who keep bringing in the big ones.

Hasbro’s other 6” lines are pretty solid. Let’s examine those for a minute.

Marvel Legends has given us hundreds if not thousands of figures in a period a little over 6 years. And even though there are plenty of repeat characters, be they on new bodies or not, they’re are plenty of B-, C-, D, and even a few E-List characters getting toys made of them. Plus the regular inclusion of a BAF continues the “Gotta Catch ‘Em All” mentality in a way that hasn’t pissed too many people off. The line continues to stand at the forefront of design ingenuity and pushing the boundaries of what an easily accessible, non-imported action figure line can be.

Star Wars Black Series doesn’t necessarily take too many risks with character selection, however almost every single figure produced for the line has appeared in the modern canon (exceptions coming to mind being Jaina Solo and Darth Revan). Ultimately, you don’t have a ton (although still a few, usually different outfits or reproductions of past figs with the new face-printing tech) of repeat characters showing up every single wave.

Power Rangers Lightning Collection is too new yet to make a call about that, but so far it’s been chugging along nicely with several offering from ALL (I say again ALL the different series over the brand’s history.

Likewise, G.I. Joe Classified Series hasn’t even released in most of the world, although reception seems mostly positive aside from some mostly minor nitpicks. Hopefully they’ll give us many unique characters as they did during the POC/Retaliation/30th/50th anniversary lines of 3 3/4 figures.

Ghostbusters Plasma Series is pretty rad IMO, but I’m not sure how long it can sustain, being of course a franchise with one beloved film, two films of mixed to negative standing, and a couple of cartoons. But who knows.

But this Transformers R.E.D Series is just MORE OF THE SAME GOD DAMN GEEWUN JOHN WARDEN SELF-INDULGENT CARTOON INSPIRED BS *pant pant* that we’ve gotten over the last 5+ years of Masterpiece (where it belongs and is done well for the most part), Generations (which should just be called Generation anymore) ever since John Warden took over, Video Games, and even the last film had GEEWUN shoehorned in.

Transformers, a brand built on the premise of change and innovation, is going pretty stagnate and I worry it won’t last long. It’s weird to me, with Hasbro’s ingenuity and the track record of their other properties (licenses or otherwise), that they’re unable or unwilling to be more innovative in the Transformers department.

Makes me miss Aaron Archer.

I'm pretty excited for these. I wonder if they'll be popular with non-transformers fans because they won't end up half-transformed and unrecognizable in bins at conventions and such.

I do hope this line gets some non-G1 figures though. And/or some non-transforming figures. I'd even buy a pack of human characters (Rad Carlos and Alexis please!)

I don't care if they Transform or not but just to have a good looking articulated Figure on the shelf is a win for me plus prime coming back to the shelves oh boy I can't wait

YRQRM0 wrote:I'm pretty excited for these. I wonder if they'll be popular with non-transformers fans because they won't end up half-transformed and unrecognizable in bins at conventions and such.

I do hope this line gets some non-G1 figures though. And/or some non-transforming figures. I'd even buy a pack of human characters (Rad Carlos and Alexis please!)

Well we're getting Prime Arcee so I'd say odds are good other characters from non G1 will appear at some point, assuming the line survives of course.

Nemesis Maximo, Generations is and always has been mainly Classics with a new name slapped on it. If you ever thought it wasn't, that was entirely your own self-delusion. Yes, the label started alongside the WFC game tie-ins... but aside from some of the designs WFC and FOC were the most GEEWUN of all of Aligned. CHUG has been almost entirely neo-G1 since it began in 2006. And that's fine by me, since A. The G1 characters need the upgrades the most and B. I have zero faith in their ability to do anything more than a mixed-bag update of later stuff.
New things are primarily the bailiwick of non-throwback series like Prime, RiD (2015), Rescue Bots, Cyberverse...

That being said, I do agree with you about Bungledbee having GEEWUN shoehorned in, and Optimus and Megatron are getting to be as bad as Batman for self-fulfilling-prophecy overuse milking... (and yet, I do still want to see more attempts at them in Generations because neither has been gotten "just right" to my satisfaction).

But on the other hand, I think it's worth giving this line a chance. Yes, it was revealed with G1 Optimus and Megatron yet again. However, they are iconic characters - the first bloody names that come to mind when someone thinks about Transformers. It makes sense for them to be the first two to have the dust covers dramatically swept off of.
Also, the line hasn't even actually **** hit retail yet. Seriously, give it a chance to show what all Hasbro is serving up before you go in to full-tilt "WE NEVEW GET ANYTHING BUT G1 OPTIMUS AND MEGATWON AND BUMBWEBEE" whinging.



As for who the line is meant to appeal to: People who collect 6" stuff in general, people who collect for display and find the mainline Transformers too big to efficiently display, people who collect to get the characters and don't really bother transforming their figures much...

This sort of has my attention. I completely ignored it with the Prime and Megs reveal, but the idea of getting a Prime Arcee as a Marvel Legends type, as well as a Cheetor, sounds pretty good to me. Might be fun to see what comes.

But yes, Pretenders and Action Masters are necessities here, this is yet another great setup for them. Prime figures with fully accurate robot modes, same with movie figures, would be enjoyable. Maybe some animated would be fun too, a Safeguard with a rotating head would be sweet.

How about an RiD2015 Ultra Bee, I want an articulated version of that.

Same with a lot of IDW designs. While it would not be remotely in scale, I want an IDW Unicron, and this could also work in this line

I was just thinking about unicron funnily enough, a two pack of him and primus could be fun

Yeah I'm not interested in this line if its just gonna be the regular staple. Bring on the Actionmasters, damn it!

We've already had confirmation of Prime Arcee, so I think there's hope.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:We've already had confirmation of Prime Arcee, so I think there's hope.

What confirmation? Someone has seen the toy?

william-james88 wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:We've already had confirmation of Prime Arcee, so I think there's hope.

What confirmation? Someone has seen the toy?

You did news it yourself:

william-james88 wrote:So far this year is giving us an Arcee relase in every line. We got one in Studio Series, Generations, MP and Cyberverse. So, with this new Transformers R.E.D. Series (see what they did there?), we just had to get another Arcee. And so that's what we'll get. Transformers fan LegoTFGuy used his Walmart scanner to see if they could find other listings under this new RED Series and found quite a few. Of course, we've seen Optimus Prime and Megatron, and we have further confirmation of the Soundwave we already had a listing of, but they found even more such as the afore mentionned Arcee, Bumblebee (Big surprise!) and Cheetor along with another figure which has yet to be named in the system. They are all 19.87.

A few extra points, we did have a previous listing for a Generations Cheetor, so it is unclear if this is that same toy or not (the ID numbers are not the same). Also, the Arcee is listed as "Prime Arcee" and these are only inferred to be part of the RED series because they are bundled together in Walmart's system. Though Bumblebee does have the clear RED moniker. And Bumblebee being the same price means either they will be in scale and you are paying the same for half a figure OR he will also be 6 inches and scale will not be a factor in this line.

I can't really call it 100% confirmation, but it's clearly stated PRIME Arcee.

I was talking about that list someone showed in this thread.

EDIT: As Kanrabat pointed out!

Good BAF possibility for this line: Cybertron Super Mode Optimus Prime, including backpack-mode Wing Saber, and arm mode Leobreaker.

That’s not a confirmation of TF:Prime Arcee. That’s just as likely to be Prime Wars or Prime Armor or some other gimmick. I’m skeptical of anything other than G1 showing up. John Warden doesn’t like it.

Nemesis Maximo wrote:That’s not a confirmation of TF:Prime Arcee. That’s just as likely to be Prime Wars

Okay, that is your paranoia about John Warden's G1 focus interfering with your rational thinking Prime Wars Arcee is literally just G1 Arcee, with a Headmaster gimmick at one point, and thus wouldn't require a special "Prime" designation. Also, this Arcee listing has that "Prime" designation where Bumblebee, Cheetor, and Soundwave all have "Gen".

Nemesis Maximo wrote:Prime Armor or some other gimmick.

That's a bit more plausible, but still seems unlikely given the nature of the 6" action figure lines.

Nemesis Maximo wrote:I’m skeptical of anything other than G1 showing up. John Warden doesn’t like it.

You're so skeptical that it almost seems like you don't want it to be anything other than G1 either.

Cheetor is also on that list. And need I remind you that we've recently been getting homages to the Unicron Trilogy? One of which was a Leader-class figure released at regular retail (It was an Optimus, but still)?

Considering I skipped everything except Soundblaster from the WfC line, and probably won't end up with more than a half dozen from Earthrise, I'll buy at least a few of these-- Megatron, Soundwave, any seekers, hopefully the Constructicons, Shockwave... Looks like they could be great display pieces on the shelves behind my desk at work.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Good BAF possibility for this line: Cybertron Super Mode Optimus Prime, including backpack-mode Wing Saber, and arm mode Leobreaker.

This made me think back to Kabaya's Blockformers and Change Galaxy stuff. Those transformed though. They did those little Hyper Galaxy 5 PoA non-transforming ones too but never a Leobreaker or Wing Saber. Have to admit stuff like that would make these more interesting.

Heck, helicopter backpacks and dudes like Scorpinator would have made these must-buy for me.

So anyway, They have Optimus up for Pre-Order right now, but I can't find the Megatron on their website. I'm not going to pay the shipping cost for just one of them either.

I was going to make a joke about finding them in store before they shipped for pre-orders too.