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Jelze Bunnycat wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:I'm really excited about Blitzwing. If his bot mode is on point, I can deal with a couple issues with alt modes, as well as the price.
I'm also very anxious to see all of these Stunticons; first, just for their appearances (especially Motormaster), but also to see if they are in-fact CW compatible.

I have zero interest in any of the movie figures... Such an easy pass for me.

I don't think they will be CW compatible. This is a new system.

Blocks extending from Motormaster for the vehicle-mode Stunticons to be slapped on

You joke but I think Hasbro are crazy enough to do it

ZeroWolf wrote:

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:I'm really excited about Blitzwing. If his bot mode is on point, I can deal with a couple issues with alt modes, as well as the price.
I'm also very anxious to see all of these Stunticons; first, just for their appearances (especially Motormaster), but also to see if they are in-fact CW compatible.

I have zero interest in any of the movie figures... Such an easy pass for me.

I don't think they will be CW compatible. This is a new system.

Blocks extending from Motormaster for the vehicle-mode Stunticons to be slapped on

You joke but I think Hasbro are crazy enough to do it

Who says I'm joking? Putting it out as an actual possibility

Now there's an idea, every redone combiner gets its own combiner system!

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Sowndwave76 wrote:I'm really excited about Blitzwing. If his bot mode is on point, I can deal with a couple issues with alt modes, as well as the price.
I'm also very anxious to see all of these Stunticons; first, just for their appearances (especially Motormaster), but also to see if they are in-fact CW compatible.

I have zero interest in any of the movie figures... Such an easy pass for me.

I don't think they will be CW compatible. This is a new system.

Blocks extending from Motormaster for the vehicle-mode Stunticons to be slapped on

You joke but I think Hasbro are crazy enough to do it

Who says I'm joking? Putting it out as an actual possibility

Yeah watch, each limb in vehicle mode simply either has multiple peg holes on the bottom, or a couple female members for clips (seems unlikely the clips would be part of each limb).
Especially if they're going for a show-accurate look, this is most definitely a possibility!

Most of the recent unlicensed toymakers have used the trailer for the combiner connections, right? My guess is Hasbro will do the same thing. I don't know how else you wind up with a commander class Motormaster and an animation-accurate combiner.

Till-all-R1 wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:Since we're still reading about Voyager-sized Leaders, Deluxe-sized Voyagers, and small Deluxes, I'm starting to think we need new size terminology entirely. So-called size classes are actually price classes. Insofar as they are still size classes, it's box size rather than product size, and most people don't care about that.

This. Ever since Legends Class ended there's no place for those cheaper/smaller bots so they put them in "Deluxe" Class where they don't really belong and certainly aren't worth the price in some cases. Such as with Buzzworthy Origins Bee, that's not a $23 bot. IMO

Also the fact that the oversized boxes are there simply to sell you on the item appearing to be worth the price, could you imagine if they cut those deluxe boxes by half and still charged $23? In cases like Red Alert, Wheeljack etc. it works but not on Bots like BB and CJ.IMO it's just wasted packaging materials in an era where they're seemingly trying to go green.

The engineering in that bee would be too much for the Legends price tag, there's more parts there then say Power of the Prime Cindersaur or Titans Returns Kickback or Gnaw. As stated, we need to move past the size of the bot and look at other factors like parts count and engineering. Much like people do when they buy Masterpiece

And my point about box size wasn't that Hasbro is trying to trick customers, but that the box sizes are standardized at a price point so that retailers can market them consistently. Size class was always intended for retailers more than customers, but historically they have been useful to the fandom to classify different sets of figures. In the current environment, it's less useful unless you add caveats.

I'm not suggesting they're trying to trick, merely pointing out that in most cases trying to sell a $23 toy that's in a much smaller box to an average consumer could be visually off putting. Marketing is all about how to appeal to the average customer and make your product look worth its price and that's where packaging comes in. And yes the class is a retailer thing so that they have multiple price points to appeal to as many consumers as possible. I really don't know how they're supposed to do it any other way though because it's not like marvel legends were all figures are $23 and essentially the same scale aside from the occasional larger figure like a Thanos or the BAF. Hasbro uses the class terminology in order to sell an item at several price points, unfortunately they tend to crossover too much with Voyagers being released as Leaders with what some feel are over priced extras. Or Deluxe figures being released as Voyagers, some make sense while others don't. Personally I feel Rodimus Prime was a it of a rip off being released in Commander instead of Leader considering the fact Optimus came with a trailer in Leader class.

ZeroWolf wrote:

Till-all-R1 wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:Since we're still reading about Voyager-sized Leaders, Deluxe-sized Voyagers, and small Deluxes, I'm starting to think we need new size terminology entirely. So-called size classes are actually price classes. Insofar as they are still size classes, it's box size rather than product size, and most people don't care about that.

This. Ever since Legends Class ended there's no place for those cheaper/smaller bots so they put them in "Deluxe" Class where they don't really belong and certainly aren't worth the price in some cases. Such as with Buzzworthy Origins Bee, that's not a $23 bot. IMO

Also the fact that the oversized boxes are there simply to sell you on the item appearing to be worth the price, could you imagine if they cut those deluxe boxes by half and still charged $23? In cases like Red Alert, Wheeljack etc. it works but not on Bots like BB and CJ.IMO it's just wasted packaging materials in an era where they're seemingly trying to go green.

The engineering in that bee would be too much for the Legends price tag, there's more parts there then say Power of the Prime Cindersaur or Titans Returns Kickback or Gnaw. As stated, we need to move past the size of the bot and look at other factors like parts count and engineering. Much like people do when they buy Masterpiece

True, but not to the general audience who would see two Deluxe boxes together and seeing Wheeljack in one and this much smaller looking Bee in the other. The perception is still there of it appearing to be overpriced compared to most of the other "Deluxe" figures and the box size doesn't help matters. This is what the collecting community always seems to forget because they have a different perception and knowledge of what goes into making them versus the average consumer. An average parent buying for a kid doesn't see the complexity of engineering aspect, they only see a 4" toy that stand the same height as any other 4" figure that sells for $9-12. Hence why they likely introduced the core class Transformers.

As a fan/collector I recognize the complexity of this bot as well as several others, but the perception can also appear that he's over priced was my point. I don't really know how well he's selling either but I did see where he's going for double on ebay. lol Luckily I got him very early at the closest Target I have or I'd probably never have found him much like every other Exclusive. I had to pay $40 for Thrust.

Till-all-R1 wrote:I don't really know how well he's selling either but I did see where he's going for double on ebay. lol Luckily I got him very early at the closest Target I have or I'd probably never have found him much like every other Exclusive. I had to pay $40 for Thrust.

He is selling ridiculously well. Fans are buying him before an eventually routine sale even. If he is being cleared out at the price he has now than he's not overpriced.
I guess fans are smart and understand that, like with the MP line we've had for 2 decades now, the price of a toy is not solely dependent on height.

"The people who aren't buying this figure think it's overpriced, and it sells on eBay for even more" is not a problem, I don't know why it's being presented like one.

The problem I'm trying to figure out is how we should talk about different figures when historically it's had an emphasis on class and now that's not as meaningful. Or at least, we need to represent that Deluxe, Voyager, and Leader mean different things pre- and post-WfC.

Thats a tricky one, one that I don't think an answer exists for yet.

I think it's fine in terms of getting "more" for your Money when comparing the cost of an 8" robot to a 4" one, obviously it will cost more for a larger version and that's where Deluxe and voyager play their roles just fine. I can in most cases justify every Deluxe release for the old price point, the new one can be somewhat iffy on certain molds the smaller they get. Such as Beachcomber if ever done, or any of the smaller bots. It's when they try to pass of a Deluxe type figure as a Voyager release and not really do much to make it worth the increased price. Or place a Voyager into Leaser Class etc. Granted it doesn't really affect me because I don't have to buy it but I think that contributes in muddying the waters with the class thing. In addition to possibly over saturating the market with extra stuff when they could be releasing something people could really use.

Anyway I've been looing forward to a new Blitzwing so I hope this version is much better the the last, it just didn't feel/look like Blitzwing to me. While I have no interest in any of the Beasts I am curious of which G1 characters they might sneak into the line.

Kinda bummed that stuff is already coming out about the movie next year toy wise, I would prefer to wait until closer.

that said, I will look forward to the toyline for this to see what they do this time

AcademyofDrX wrote:"The people who aren't buying this figure think it's overpriced, and it sells on eBay for even more" is not a problem, I don't know why it's being presented like one.

The problem I'm trying to figure out is how we should talk about different figures when historically it's had an emphasis on class and now that's not as meaningful. Or at least, we need to represent that Deluxe, Voyager, and Leader mean different things pre- and post-WfC.

I still think deluxe and Voyager ect work. We just have to know that those classes refer to price points now and not height.

william-james88 wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:"The people who aren't buying this figure think it's overpriced, and it sells on eBay for even more" is not a problem, I don't know why it's being presented like one.

The problem I'm trying to figure out is how we should talk about different figures when historically it's had an emphasis on class and now that's not as meaningful. Or at least, we need to represent that Deluxe, Voyager, and Leader mean different things pre- and post-WfC.

I still think deluxe and Voyager ect work. We just have to know that those classes refer to price points now and not height.

In a sense, they always have: we just put too much value in them as a measure for size as well over the years. True, that worked, but with the emphasis on scale in the WFC line and others it no longer does.

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

AcademyofDrX wrote:"The people who aren't buying this figure think it's overpriced, and it sells on eBay for even more" is not a problem, I don't know why it's being presented like one.

The problem I'm trying to figure out is how we should talk about different figures when historically it's had an emphasis on class and now that's not as meaningful. Or at least, we need to represent that Deluxe, Voyager, and Leader mean different things pre- and post-WfC.

I still think deluxe and Voyager ect work. We just have to know that those classes refer to price points now and not height.

In a sense, they always have: we just put too much value in them as a measure for size as well over the years. True, that worked, but with the emphasis on scale in the WFC line and others it no longer does.

Yup, hence why this is still the best way to talk about them.

I've never been a fan of using ranks to describe a toy class, I think it's dumb that we're still using "Voyager" when it hasn't meant anything since 2005. Not all Leader class figures are leaders, not all Commander class figures are going to be commanders, and not all Titans are giant cities. I like Core, it sounds small, but also like it's important and central to the line. Deluxe is good, it sounds more complex than Core and like we're getting more for our money no matter what size the figure is.

Why does Cyberverse get the meaningful descriptive classes like 1 Step, Deluxe, Ultra, Ultimate and whatnot, but the line that skews a little older (but still sold to kids) gets these ridiculous, meaningless names based on arbitrary ranks that don't mean anything. I feel bad for the parents that have to sort all this out between toy lines.

I say keep it simple in Generations. Core, Deluxe, Mega (Voyager), Ultra (Leader), Ultimate (Commander), Supreme (Titan). They all sound more impressive than the last, says nothing about their size (why is a Commander more impressive than a Leader, surely the guy in charge should have the best figure), and doesn't use ranks that the character in the box probably doesn't hold. To me this is the most idea way to do things.

Emerje

For the longest time I though the "class" description meant size/scale and price point so that a customer could distinguish between them for that purpose, hence a 6" Prime at $20 or a 9" Prime for $40 etc. And each character was prices according to "scale" thus offering a product to all budgets. So if a person could afford a $40 version a smaller one was also available for $20 budget.

One of the major reasons I didn't collect them post G1 was none of them really appealed to me as much design wise or aesthetically, and the fact the scale seems off between certain bots. I for some reason wanted a uniform line for all. So I didn't get into Transformers again until just recently in 20 as I noticed in 18 and 19 that were really starting to look great, almost as if Hasbro finally got to a place where the aesthetics and design of the figures found a balance. I am kicking myself now for waiting so long and missing a lot of neat bots. In fact I mainly got into the line for the good job on so many G1 characters that seemed to hit the mark in all years prior, planned to keep it simple with only the main cast but as I progressed it got slightly out of hand and found myself getting a few extras and then they had to do the Movie coverage!

So to try and make a long story short, I had some difficulty in trying to travers the line with what all the class speak meant and why one was Voyager while another was Leader. My thought was all smaller bots like Red Alert for example were a $20 price point while the bigger ones were $30 like prime due to size being as it meant more plastic involved, and that the engineering was/should essentially be the same on each one these days. The I found out it could be more complex on some more that others.

I guess for me I'm mainly going for aesthetics and them all being close to scale with each other as possible to the show since I don't plan to transform them repeatedly, thus not really concerned with complexity of engineering more for display. I've also considered RED but those look more like simple kids toy versions and not as detailed.

RED figures don't Transform at all and are supposed to offer an experience closer to Marvel Legends or Star War's Black Series. Its debatable however if they achieved this mind. The more child friendly stuff is in the Cyberverse line.

Now that the film is delayed a whole year, I wonder if the toys will still be released in 2022 or if Hasbro is willing to stall it. They didn't stall the toylines for other delayed films, like Black Widow.

Probably not. Retail space is determined long in advance making it very difficult to cancel a toy line without drawing the ire of retailers since it leaves a gap in their planogram. On the bright side the 2023 line, if they make one, aside from SS, should actually be character accurate.

Emerje