The Energon Pub

I'll admit it guys, I'm starting to feel disheartened about the future of the Transformers franchise. I feel like Hasbro, Takara, and a large portion of the fans believe that the success of the brand relies largely on never-ending G1 homages and G1 reissues. I certainly mean no offense to those of you out there who love G1, I loved it back in the day and I acknowledge that without G1 we wouldn't have anything we've got now but I'm getting sick of everything always being about G1.

I feel like Transformers isn't really moving forward, why does Optimus Prime always have to be the leader of the Autobots? Why does he always have to be either a fire truck or semi truck? Why does he always have to be red and blue? I feel like it's just the same stuff rehashed again and again.

The spark in Transformers is dying, originality has taken a backseat to nostalgia. I feel like most people don't care or maybe wish it was all G1 all the time, but this collector is losing his will to collect. I'm not looking forward to the new animated series, the next movie will probably be great but they'll cram another 10 G1 characters in there instead of giving us awesome new original characters like Barricade.

I feel like the brand really needs to get away from G1 and do something fresh and unique. Honestly, would you guys stop buying TF's just because there's no Prime or Megs? Who cares as long as the figures are awesome? Is it really that important?

I know I'm going to get 50 replies saying G1 is the best evarr and everything should be a G1 homage, I just wanted to see if there was anyone else out there that's craving something new and different. Is there?

It's hard to say, of course. My current hope is that the new cartoon with be very successful. It's fresh, and it could potentially go places that other shows never went simply because of the nostalgia tag. If not, well, there's always the comics I guess.

I'm only into G1. However, I do understand what you are saying. It's like TF:TM. You have to have the old to introduce the new. The only problem, as seen in TF:TM is that, it alientates the core fan base. I doubt that Hasbro or anybody else for that matter will do that.

I didn't see the movie, I don't really have an interest to do so. However, for the franchise to work, they will have to keep old characters and intorduce new ones. However, I really doubt that a new one will step up in a leader role, like TF:TM did.

I'd say homages really don't hurt franchises all too much, assuming they have a loyal fanbase. The best examples I have are Final Fantasy and Legend of Zelda, though I KNOW numerous other examples exist.

Does G1 drive Transformers? Certainly! Pull from the past if it works for the future. Is the franchise dependent on a constant stream of homages? That depends on you definition of homage.

I don't consider Armada Megatron, Prime, or Starscream homages. They, (as characters anyway) have their own unique mannerisms and behaviors. Toy-wise, they are engineered different enough to be seperate from their counterparts.

Classics Megatron, Prime, or Starscream, however, really strike the homage bell. They are similar enough to recall those bygone toys, yet exist firmly on their own for people who have little contact with the franchise's past.

Now, a question; What, to you, qualifies as 'fresh and unique'?

Honestly, would you guys stop buying TF's just because there's no Prime or Megs?

Yepper, That's is the heart of what makes transformers, G1 Series is where your transformer history is,
In G1 they tried a new leader ultra magnus and rodimus prime on that day Transformers almost Died as a product and did for most of us, it was years before I even look at transformers after that, it was the beast wars show With Prime and Megs that brought me back, you want something diffrent then go get power rangers or something else.
I belive Transformers do well because of there rich history.

Clusterprime

G1 has its place in the hearts of all Tranformers fans. Without it there would be nothing. Newer fans and even G1 fans all would like new toy tech to improve upon and get us new lines like Alts, BT and Titanium. Once the G1 generation moves into their 40s and then 50s we might see some movement away from our much beloved and reincarnated OP, Megs and the rest in series after series with the same basis of the battle between good and evil.

Tak/Tomy/Hasbro know a good thing when they see it. 30 somethings with disposal income wanting to relive their childhood. This above all else is why G1 remains so popular. Time will tell if this will last when we G1'ers are in our 40s and 50s.

Well, Prime wasn't red and blue in Beast Wars or Beast machines, and there were a lot of original characters introduced in those series. Well remember how well it went over when it was tried to replace Prime with Hot Rod and Ultra Magnus. Hasbro & Co. are only giving the fans what they want and we only have ourselves to blame.

Beast Wars was the biggest departure from the series so far, and the only reason it was sucessful was because they had really good writing. It wasn't too evident in the first season, but it got really good. Now, Hasbro and Takara don't want to pay for good writing since it relies on getting close to the characters. You have too many, and you can't get close to them. If you limit the number of characters, you're not going to be able to sell as many toys. Hence why Hasbro and Takara haven't made another series quite like it. Or something more drastic for that matter.

I'm actually quite confident if the Movie Line happened to only keep the characters Optimus Prime and Megatron, and then simply replace Bumblebee, Jazz, etc, with different characters, then everything would be fine.

g1transformers wrote:G1 has its place in the hearts of all Tranformers fans. Without it there would be nothing. Newer fans and even G1 fans all would like new toy tech to improve upon and get us new lines like Alts, BT and Titanium. Once the G1 generation moves into their 40s and then 50s we might see some movement away from our much beloved and reincarnated OP, Megs and the rest in series after series with the same basis of the battle between good and evil.

I see what you're saying but I don't agree. Why can't we have a TF series without Prime and Megs? Why can't we have "Alien" without Sigourny Weaver? Why can't we have "Terminator" without Arnie? I don't go to see Aliens films for Sigourny, I don't go to see Terminator films for Arnold, and I don't buy TF's because of Prime, Megs, or any other G1 name/character they want to use. I go for the Aliens, the Terminators, and the Transforming robots.

TF's isn't defined by G1, maybe it is in some ways but it shouldn't be in every way. There's nothing wrong with acknowledging your roots but that doesn't mean it can't move forward and silently pay respect to it's past. There's a lot of Star Wars stuff that doesn't involve Luke, Han, Chewie, or Leia. Why should all TF lines have Prime, Megs, Starscream, etc?

TF's is about good storytelling but above all it's about transforming robots. Let's face it, a lot of us don't even watch the shows, I certainly don't. I don't care what characters they have, as long as the toys are cool I could care less. So why does it always have to be the same characters every time?

Tak/Tomy/Hasbro know a good thing when they see it. 30 somethings with disposal income wanting to relive their childhood. This above all else is why G1 remains so popular. Time will tell if this will last when we G1'ers are in our 40s and 50s.

Dude, the fanbse makes up a very small percentage of people who are buying TF's. 30 somethings with disposable income are not Hasbro's target audience, it may seem that way sometimes with all of the catering they do to us fans but in comparison to the millions of kids who buy TF's worldwide we're a small group.

Wow, guess nobody here wants anything new or different. Why even bother making new TF's lines? They should just reissue G1 figures over and over again, clearly that's what you all want.

Phenotype wrote:Wow, guess nobody here wants anything new or different. Why even bother making new TF's lines? They should just reissue G1 figures over and over again, clearly that's what you all want.

Ewwww, that prospect sounds sickening

I myself miss the :MAX: & RED: era myself,
I would like to see something new as well.

Transformers are nothing without G1. Admit it. By the way, the movie was awesome, and I'm a transfan since 1984.

I'm quite giddy since Blackarachnia is going to be in the new series, since I became a fan with BW but I deffo would like to see a different direction, but pretty much every avenue has already been taken.

Nope People just are VERY over dramatic in these fourums and are glued to g1. I think by readeing what you say you will enjoy the new animated series its very fresh witch i have been wanthing to. Its so great Optimus isnt going to be the all known commander of the autobots hes just going to be a young squad leader. But Megatron is going to be the all powerfull. Im really looking forward to this serries and i like how it looks different.

I wouldn't mind seeing something different at all, but the thing is, there are certain elements that you HAVE to have in order to justify giving it the Transformers name: Autobots, Decepticons, Cybertron, Optimus Prime, Megatron...those elements all have to be there in SOME form or variation. That basic formula is important, but you DO have to keep reinventing it to keep it aloft - the same old crap gets real stale after a while.

Yeah but g1 isnt what started transformers it was microman and daiclona adapted ny a toy complany to make a quick buck on a tv show like every tv show. I am look forward to thr new animated series and the art style also its like a fresh breath of air in a large smog pit called transformers.

The homages to G1 are there for one simple reason, we (G1 fans) are the ones shelling out the money for these figures. G1 fans are in their 20's and 30's, make a decent amount of money and spend a good fraction of that on Transformers figures and other memorabilia. This is the reason Transformers are so popular, if not for the G1 fans the line would be just another flash in the pan. Today's youth have a very short attention span, it's Transformers one day, the next day it's Pokemon or Power Rangers or god knows what.

I'm sure once this new generation of fans gets into their 20's and 30's, we'll probably see a revival of some of the Energon/Armada/Cybertron figures, but nothing close to what we see now with G1. Hasbor/Takara captured something special in the 80's, and you just can't recreate that with new lines of figures each year.

Lord~Soundwave wrote:Yeah but g1 isnt what started transformers it was microman and daiclona adapted ny a toy complany to make a quick buck on a tv show like every tv show. I am look forward to thr new animated series and the art style also its like a fresh breath of air in a large smog pit called transformers.

Yeah, G1 started TRANSFORMERS. Diaclone and Microman are different Series. And without G1 there'd BE NO TRANSFORMERS FRANCHISE.

I think the balance struck at the moment is pretty good. Obviously if homages bore you then collector lines like classics and alternators are not for you. But take the movie line for example. There's new characters like blackout and barricade, characters with old names like starscream, megatron, ratchet and ironhide but who don't even remotely resemble their g1 selves, and then somewhat more recognisable ones like prime and bumblebee (although really the only homage there is the yellow colour). With a bit of imagination you could view virtually the whole movie line as new characters, especially if you only really care about the toys. You could go through the same process for all the recent cartoon lines. Forget the recycled names and they're mostly very original designs (armada, energon and cybertron jetfire, for example, share nothing but a name and the fact they can fly).

A wee bit of imagination will set you free from your perceived g1 chains. . .

Most names have been used for many of the lines over the years. Blackout and Barricade were both micromasters 17 years ago. Not that I am in agruement with anyone I have been a fan since 84 myself, I would also like to see something fresh. But children are going to always ask Santa and the Easter Bunny for whats hot, trendy, and on par with what they like colors and names make no nevermind to a 5-year old they want to play. New characters sure I wouldn't even mind if they put some spins on some of the European or Japanese exclusives in some shows. Megatrons come and go but the fusion cannons stay forever and if Primes colors are a nusaince or remind you of the american or british flag repaint him into an Irish, French, Italian or whichever country you'd like and have him exist. As long as the series survives there will be those of us that will fight and some who will move on to other things. But to me its if Homer Simpson lost his round head and grew hair would he be Homer Simpson or if Voltron would be remade into Dogs or a team of mongoose whos to say overall.

I used to get up very early to watch two tv shows when I was a kid in the 80's (born 1981) and Transformers was one of those, the other was Thundercats. I'd get up at the crack of dawn to catch them on in the asscrack hours of the day. Loved the show then and had lots of cool toys that my mom eventually gave away. But til the movie came around, I've had very very little do to with Transformers since the 80's and early 90's. No figures, didn't really watch any shows. It just faded away for me. And I do think that all these different lines of toys is kinda weird. How many do they need? I guess as many as they can sell. But it was the movie that brought back things for me.

Now would I have gone to see that movie if it was called Transformers and there wasn't anyone recognizable in it for me? Nope, no chance. But I thought it was really cool to hear the name Optimus Prime after all these years, thinking back 20 years. But then again, would I have gone to see the movie if Optimus Prime had looked just like his G1 self? Again, Not a chance. No big blocky characters for me in 2007. Love the new designs because they are so new, but still carry some of the instant recognition that I wanted. So obviously for me there had to be some G1 overlap or I wouldn't have cared. But then again if they'd just rehashed the cartoon I'd have been disappointed.

I feel that this is a fresh take on the series. I'm so not a hardcore fan and I think many of the toys are strange and the follow on cartoons weren't very strong, but what they've done now brought me and my money in.. for now. I'm sure in a year my money will be somewhere else, absolutely. I've bought Transformers toys for the first time in 15+ years, and now that I got my favorites (LC Prime and 08BB in particular) I'm winding down, at least til the DVD comes out.

But if they do something stupid like kill Prime and bring him back, or even if they bring back Megatron, I'll probably start losing interest very quickly. I just want to be entertained by my favorite characters for 2 hours without feeling like I've seen it all before.

The discussion about what makes a series that particular series is a broad one. After Superman Returns came out, there was a raging debate on a forum about why Superman had to be in his red and blue tights. Because... if he was dressed in something else, it wouldn't be as Superman-ish. It's heritage that makes a series a series. The Enterprise D in Star Trek TNG wasn't Kirks, but you instantly knew it was Star Trek. There has to be fan familiarity. Nearly everyone that went to see Transformers was more like me, remembering G1 (or being introduced to Transformers for the first time), then the people here that can name every robot in every series and has the toys to back it up.

It's just when it's really done wrong or overdone that heritage becomes a liability. After the last 2 horribly campy and absolutely terrible Batman movies in the 90's, I'm suprised anyone could resurrect that franchise, but I loved Batman Begins. They drew me back in and got my money for being original yet it still having a strong Batman equation.

Phenotype wrote:Wow, guess nobody here wants anything new or different. Why even bother making new TF's lines? They should just reissue G1 figures over and over again, clearly that's what you all want.

Which is that: melodrama or sarcasm? They've done new things. All new, all different things. Beast Wars was epic. But look at Beast Machines. Religion and philosiphy? Where else were you going to get that on Fox Kids in 1999? Most fans hated it. I didn't, I own the boxset. But the toys were shelf warmers for years afterwards. Next they freaked and gave us the Japanese import Car Robots or Robots in Disguise. The show was fresh, happenin', where it's at. It even introduced some of the freshest concepts since TF:TM. Virtually every single character was new, Scourge ie Nemisis Prime, the Decepticons as an elite strike force within the Predacon army, even a Megatron that had 10+ alt modes! It brought back the cityformer Fortress Maximus (of course the Federal regs on toy safety kept it off the shelf in this country.) They even made the show global by reinventing the space bridge and letting them drive anywhere in the world. And what happened? We hated it. The show tanked. After the first wave, the toys didn't move.
What's the first rule of business? Give them what they want.
Armada should have been a great show. Every name was culled from G1, even the new characters had recycled name even if they didn't fit the character. The new hook, the Minicons, even sounded cool. What did we get? Neon colors. Crappy toys. Pokemon. Even when they finally gave us something we'd been asking for for more than 15 years all we did was complain and Unicron himself was a shelf warmer. Moving on to Energon. The most obvious homage and blantant pandering to G1 fans ever. Prime was G1 redone (as a pregnant lady but still.) Megatron was Galvatron to a T. Starscream a transparent green "ghost". Even Ultra Magnus, Rodimus and Arcee for no other reason than to shut us up and follow the G1 storyarc. After Unicron, post-Movie characters. It was so G1 that every single figure I've mentioned fits almost perfectly on the Classics shelf. But the cartoon sucked and Dreamwave went but in the middle of the comics. So for the adult fans, all that was left was wandering through a TRU looking for what was familiar. The Transformers line nearly died. I can still go to the KMart near my house and find Energon toys. Cybertron didn't bounce it back very well either. Of every TF line ever, US and Japan, Cybertron is the one I own the least from and I'm not the only one who can say that. The show was an improvement over Energon I've been told but I never watched it. I got Optimus Galvatron Soundwave and my girlfriend got me Supreme Starscream for Christmas. The only things that kept me in were Classics and Alternators/Binaltech/Kiss. The shear promise of the Movie saved the series for a large portion of the adult market. That's why we were flipping over tiny details of the movie like eye color and faceplates and flame detailing. That movie was what we had to hold on to. Classics was a filler line to keep us happy and spending $10 a month until the movie came out. It ended up selling so well that they're bringing it back next year. Everthing they do that succeeds is based on G1 for good reason. The characters. Season 1 alone had 30+ distinct characters. Not all of them got the spotlight for long but the ones that did? Optimus was a Peterbilt King Arthur. The Megatron and Starscream dynamic alone was Shakespearian. The humans weren't prominant enough to get in the way, unlike later series. After all, we know what people are like and they weren't getting toys anyway. Spike was old enough to drive us a gun and work construction but stiil had an almost childlike wonder about them that made us want to be him. Something I think the movie captured very well.

So, yes, Transformers need G1 still to this day. Series that deviate too far fail. But that's not just our fault. Find one kid that doesn't want an Optimus Prime. One boy that doesn't want to be Spike or Sam. The reason why Transformers doesn't change much in because in 1984 they struck gold. They've tried other things but they keep coming back to what works. Now excuse me I have to take my nephew to Toys R Us at 3:00 so he can buy a leader class movie Optimus Prime with his birthday money. He wants me to bring over my Megatron so we can fight afterwards.

zodconvoy wrote:

Phenotype wrote:Wow, guess nobody here wants anything new or different. Why even bother making new TF's lines? They should just reissue G1 figures over and over again, clearly that's what you all want.

Which is that: melodrama or sarcasm? They've done new things. All new, all different things. Beast Wars was epic. But look at Beast Machines. Religion and philosiphy? Where else were you going to get that on Fox Kids in 1999? Most fans hated it. I didn't, I own the boxset. But the toys were shelf warmers for years afterwards. Next they freaked and gave us the Japanese import Car Robots or Robots in Disguise. The show was fresh, happenin', where it's at. It even introduced some of the freshest concepts since TF:TM. Virtually every single character was new, Scourge ie Nemisis Prime, the Decepticons as an elite strike force within the Predacon army, even a Megatron that had 10+ alt modes! It brought back the cityformer Fortress Maximus (of course the Federal regs on toy safety kept it off the shelf in this country.) They even made the show global by reinventing the space bridge and letting them drive anywhere in the world. And what happened? We hated it. The show tanked. After the first wave, the toys didn't move.
What's the first rule of business? Give them what they want.
Armada should have been a great show. Every name was culled from G1, even the new characters had recycled name even if they didn't fit the character. The new hook, the Minicons, even sounded cool. What did we get? Neon colors. Crappy toys. Pokemon. Even when they finally gave us something we'd been asking for for more than 15 years all we did was complain and Unicron himself was a shelf warmer. Moving on to Energon. The most obvious homage and blantant pandering to G1 fans ever. Prime was G1 redone (as a pregnant lady but still.) Megatron was Galvatron to a T. Starscream a transparent green "ghost". Even Ultra Magnus, Rodimus and Arcee for no other reason than to shut us up and follow the G1 storyarc. After Unicron, post-Movie characters. It was so G1 that every single figure I've mentioned fits almost perfectly on the Classics shelf. But the cartoon sucked and Dreamwave went but in the middle of the comics. So for the adult fans, all that was left was wandering through a TRU looking for what was familiar. The Transformers line nearly died. I can still go to the KMart near my house and find Energon toys. Cybertron didn't bounce it back very well either. Of every TF line ever, US and Japan, Cybertron is the one I own the least from and I'm not the only one who can say that. The show was an improvement over Energon I've been told but I never watched it. I got Optimus Galvatron Soundwave and my girlfriend got me Supreme Starscream for Christmas. The only things that kept me in were Classics and Alternators/Binaltech/Kiss. The shear promise of the Movie saved the series for a large portion of the adult market. That's why we were flipping over tiny details of the movie like eye color and faceplates and flame detailing. That movie was what we had to hold on to. Classics was a filler line to keep us happy and spending $10 a month until the movie came out. It ended up selling so well that they're bringing it back next year. Everthing they do that succeeds is based on G1 for good reason. The characters. Season 1 alone had 30+ distinct characters. Not all of them got the spotlight for long but the ones that did? Optimus was a Peterbilt King Arthur. The Megatron and Starscream dynamic alone was Shakespearian. The humans weren't prominant enough to get in the way, unlike later series. After all, we know what people are like and they weren't getting toys anyway. Spike was old enough to drive us a gun and work construction but stiil had an almost childlike wonder about them that made us want to be him. Something I think the movie captured very well.

So, yes, Transformers need G1 still to this day. Series that deviate too far fail. But that's not just our fault. Find one kid that doesn't want an Optimus Prime. One boy that doesn't want to be Spike or Sam. The reason why Transformers doesn't change much in because in 1984 they struck gold. They've tried other things but they keep coming back to what works. Now excuse me I have to take my nephew to Toys R Us at 3:00 so he can buy a leader class movie Optimus Prime with his birthday money. He wants me to bring over my Megatron so we can fight afterwards.

that was a good read, and rebuttle to phenotype's thread.
it's like asking:
"can we get the rolling stones to quit playing rock music and do a rap album?"
that's how dumb i think the original post was.

Damolisher wrote:

Lord~Soundwave wrote:Yeah but g1 isnt what started transformers it was microman and daiclona adapted ny a toy complany to make a quick buck on a tv show like every tv show. I am look forward to thr new animated series and the art style also its like a fresh breath of air in a large smog pit called transformers.

Yeah, G1 started TRANSFORMERS. Diaclone and Microman are different Series. And without G1 there'd BE NO TRANSFORMERS FRANCHISE.

Without Daiclone and Microman where would they get the idea out of thin air?Also the new animated series will be the BEST! (this is my opinion i know ill get flamed ny one of you geewunners so dont)