The Energon Pub

This is part query for opinions, part rant. Here goes.

For the longest time, I've been noticing a few things that pissed me off about toys in general, and Transformers in particular. Whenever I've asked people in the know, they've always responded with "US safety and potentially litigious issues". So I'm wondering how many of you agree with the need for such 'cautions'.

Missiles
First up, missiles. I remember when we'd buy robots in the past, and get home and quickly launch missiles and fists in order to see who could shoot further. Believe me it's true that the younger you are the further you shoot.

You'd think that with technology advancing, when you get older your toys would perform better, but nooooooooo!!! The missiles on 76BB, Deluxe Brawl, and Longarm, to name but a few, come out like geriatric dribbles. About the only decent firers are Voyager SS and Ultimate BB

Is there any idiot kid who'd fire a missile into his brother's eye, and if so can companies really be sued for the stupidity of its customers? It's like a fat ass suing McDonald's for making him a fat ass!

Smoke stacks
Then you have what could be perfect figures... except for obviously too short smokestacks that make a mockery of a beautiful design. Voyager Ironhide and various Primes are just some examples. If a company can be sued for an idiot stabbing himself in the eye with a smoke stack, then all the pen and pencil stationery companies might as well close shop. And action figures won't come with spears, halberds or any other polearms. Luckily my MOTU figures escaped such disaster!


Butt Plugs
Or should that be barrel plugs? I get my terminology mixed up... Can a company still be sued if someone removes that orange plug from the toy barrel and then start waving it around? Because it can be done easily and it has been done. Is a company exonerated because it did put that orange plug in anyway?

A crim who wants to wave a toy gun is going to wave it anyway. It's just a ten minute difference to him to remove it and go robbing. If so why put that plug in anyway, a token gesture that exonerates from charge as accomplice? Or does the presence of that butt plug maybe reduce statistically significant numbers of criminals who'd do this? "Damn, it's got that orange plug. Let's not do this; let's grab a Starbucks instead!"


Accessories
And finally, what perhaps was the final straw for me: I finally find a Masterpiece Voltron for a decent price. I'm amazed by its quality and the ability to articulate, the form of the lions and their articulating limbs. Then I notice something glaringly missing: where are the missiles, the knives, and the firing fists? I ask the guy, and says he, oh, accessories nowadays are hard to come by for safety reasons. WTF, asks I. TTF, replies he. "Swallowing hazard".

When you have a toy that's obviously meant to be masterpiece and everything that can be done to make it perfect is done to make it the best possible representative it could be, and it's missing something obvious that would really make it the best Voltron there is, I have to wonder: Is this for real? Or is someone maybe cheaping out and cutting corners on material, and claiming safety laws as an excuse? Are any of these hazards real? Is this a wonderful society where accident from stupidity and irresponsibility can be lain on the doorstep of a toy company, and dishonest monies made through lawsuits?

Makes a person think doesn't it? We're being manipulated, and bullied by toy companies, and US laws that should focus on taking guns out of the wrong hands, not making sure toy guns have a plugged barrel, or something like that.

Bonecrusher27 wrote:This is part query for opinions, part rant. Here goes.

For the longest time, I've been noticing a few things that pissed me off about toys in general, and Transformers in particular. Whenever I've asked people in the know, they've always responded with "US safety and potentially litigious issues". So I'm wondering how many of you agree with the need for such 'cautions'.

Okay...let's read on.

Bonecrusher27 wrote:Missiles
First up, missiles. I remember when we'd buy robots in the past, and get home and quickly launch missiles and fists in order to see who could shoot further. Believe me it's true that the younger you are the further you shoot.

You'd think that with technology advancing, when you get older your toys would perform better, but nooooooooo!!! The missiles on 76BB, Deluxe Brawl, and Longarm, to name but a few, come out like geriatric dribbles. About the only decent firers are Voyager SS and Ultimate BB

Is there any idiot kid who'd fire a missile into his brother's eye, and if so can companies really be sued for the stupidity of its customers? It's like a fat ass suing McDonald's for making him a fat ass!

There are plenty of idiot kids who will launch a toy missile into their brother's (or sister's!) eye.* It's those kids that helped to ruin it for everyone else. Yes, companies really can be sued, even if the stupidity rests on the shoulders of the customer. The companies are required by law to meet all safety standards before sending out the product, and if it doesn't meet standards and someone gets hurt, then it's on the company's shoulders. They shouldn't send out a potentially harmful toy to kids who may or may not know any better. Plus, all of these requirements and standards were created so bad things like a missile in the eye wouldn't happen anymore. (Meaning it happened in the past, people really got hurt, there was a call for tougher measures.)

*=My Cousin has severe mental problems, and at ten years old, he's thrown a Matchbox car at his 70+ year old Great-Grandmother and hit her in the head with it, with such force that it literally caused her to faint. Two months later, he knocked over his Grandfather and held him in a choke hold on the kitchen floor, and finished it with a punch to the mouth. He's repeatedly punched his Grandmother in the mouth, in the Doctor's office waiting room. The Therapists, Doctors, etc all said "No bad shows or movies, music included. No dangerous toys or ones that could provoke such actions." They ended up taking anything with missiles, etc away because he'd stuff XActo knives in the launchers if he could. Basically...he has fun playing "Small Soldiers" The Home Game.

Bonecrusher27 wrote:Smoke stacks
Then you have what could be perfect figures... except for obviously too short smokestacks that make a mockery of a beautiful design. Voyager Ironhide and various Primes are just some examples. If a company can be sued for an idiot stabbing himself in the eye with a smoke stack, then all the pen and pencil stationery companies might as well close shop. And action figures won't come with spears, halberds or any other polearms. Luckily my MOTU figures escaped such disaster!

It's not just eyes, it's swallowing. Heck, with the right amount of force, a kid could impale a part of themselves on these items. Granted it never happens (except in really rare occasions) so it's better to be safe, than sorry.

Bonecrusher27 wrote:Butt Plugs
Or should that be barrel plugs? I get my terminology mixed up... Can a company still be sued if someone removes that orange plug from the toy barrel and then start waving it around? Because it can be done easily and it has been done. Is a company exonerated because it did put that orange plug in anyway?

A crim who wants to wave a toy gun is going to wave it anyway. It's just a ten minute difference to him to remove it and go robbing. If so why put that plug in anyway, a token gesture that exonerates from charge as accomplice? Or does the presence of that butt plug maybe reduce statistically significant numbers of criminals who'd do this? "Damn, it's got that orange plug. Let's not do this; let's grab a Starbucks instead!"

No. The company cannot be sued, because the court can look at the same product on store shelves, and the one used in the offense and see that the customer did the modification, not the company. Now, if it's proven that the plug was nothing worth mention (I.E. they didn't meet standards, just slapped crap together) then yeah, the company could be held liable because anyone could just remove the plug. (most kids don't remove it, or don't even care that there's a plug on the gun) The plug is for everyone's protection. If an idiot robber goes to the trouble of buying a toy gun, removing the plug and going through with the crime afterwards...he's an idiot. A really lucky idiot, but one nonetheless. (Well lucky if he succeeds and doesn't get caught.) Plugs are here to stay, and they're not that big of a problem. I don't really see a reason to worry about it. Remove it if you want, leave it on for the rest.

Bonecrusher27 wrote:Accessories
And finally, what perhaps was the final straw for me: I finally find a Masterpiece Voltron for a decent price. I'm amazed by its quality and the ability to articulate, the form of the lions and their articulating limbs. Then I notice something glaringly missing: where are the missiles, the knives, and the firing fists? I ask the guy, and says he, oh, accessories nowadays are hard to come by for safety reasons. WTF, asks I. TTF, replies he. "Swallowing hazard".

When you have a toy that's obviously meant to be masterpiece and everything that can be done to make it perfect is done to make it the best possible representative it could be, and it's missing something obvious that would really make it the best Voltron there is, I have to wonder: Is this for real? Or is someone maybe cheaping out and cutting corners on material, and claiming safety laws as an excuse? Are any of these hazards real? Is this a wonderful society where accident from stupidity and irresponsibility can be lain on the doorstep of a toy company, and dishonest monies made through lawsuits?

He's full of crap. Toynami didn't put the missiles and other accessories in the set because they were hardly (if ever) used on screen. The Masterpiece Voltron's design is taken directly from the animation model, not the the Japanese original toy.

You could look at it as though Toynami was cutting costs by omitting the accessories, but it really was due to the fact that the Masterpiece was based on the animation model, and that's it. The head launching feature being removed was just to cut costs, it has to be. Pathetic as it is...

Yes, these hazards are real, otherwise these laws wouldn't exist. In another thread (months old by now) we spoke of old toys, and someone had mentioned a tank (or truck, that was from the '50s or '60s) with a missile launcher that was motorized and that their sibling put screwdrivers in it and would shoot them into the wall. Say what you want, but that's incredibly dangerous. Do we have any reported cases of any of those kids being seriously injured? Of course not. Stuff like that wasn't important enough to earn a spot on the news.

However, kids getting *killed* by these toys (not just maimed or injured, but KILLED) was the turning point. A three year old boy choked on a Battlestar Galactica missile from a Mattel toy in '77 or '78 (he didn't know any better, and the parents obviously thought it was okay, I mean hey...it's a toy, and their toys were far more dangerous when they were kids. But that's because their parents were full blown idiots...) The little boy died, which started this whole thing. Then kids were impaled by Lawn Darts (filled with lead, and a blunt, yet very pointed tip) killing them as well, which pushed for even more restrictions.

No one's doing this to take away your fun, no one's doing this to be a prick. They're doing this because it's legitimate.

...Kids could be killed by cops if they thought the gun was real. (A cop will use deadly force if they feel a need to)

...Kids could poke their eyes out by accident. (I don't know about you, but no toy is worth someone's eyesight.)

...Kids could choke on pieces. (It's happened, it will happen again, I just hope this time it doesn't actually kill the poor kid.)

The missiles you mentioned earlier, they were gutted in favor of the law that was created after that boy's death. Now as time has progressed, we've pretty much gotten the missile launching toy process down to an art, hence the reason why they do project, and the missiles are so insanely long, etc.

The people aren't doing this to make a quick buck.
The people aren't doing this for kicks just to make you mad.
The people are doing this because there was a call for it, based on legitimate reasons that ended the lives of several children. I'd change my product if that were me. No toy is worth the life of a human being, especially a defenseless and uninformed child.

And if you want the best Voltron (all the accessories, etc) get the Lionbot bootleg. It's die-cast metal and plastic just like the original and the Matchbox original. Heads launch, etc. It's blocky (like the original toys were) but it does everything the Masterpiece does and more, and nothing's gutted, no corners cut.

http://search.ebay.com/Lionbot_W0QQfrpp ... turnedZ300
Some pretty good prices too.

Bonecrusher27 wrote:Is there any idiot kid who'd fire a missile into his brother's eye, and if so can companies really be sued for the stupidity of its customers?

Yes, they can be sued for the stupidity of their customers.

It's like a fat ass suing McDonald's for making him a fat ass!

Somebody really did that, but I don't know what the ruling was.


Btw, does anybody know how to take Scout Arcee's/Elita's/etc's bow apart to insert a stronger spring? Simply removing the screw doesn't help, the damn thing seems to be partially glued.

Sarri wrote:

Bonecrusher27 wrote:Is there any idiot kid who'd fire a missile into his brother's eye, and if so can companies really be sued for the stupidity of its customers?

Yes, they can be sued for the stupidity of their customers.

It's like a fat ass suing McDonald's for making him a fat ass!

Somebody really did that, but I don't know what the ruling was.


Btw, does anybody know how to take Scout Arcee's/Elita's/etc's bow apart to insert a stronger spring? Simply removing the screw doesn't help, the damn thing seems to be partially glued.

It is partially glued. An XActo knife blade or razor blade (both of which are extremely thin) could be used in the seams to pry it open without much visible damage. A little hard work will fix the problem.

Well, with modern medicine advancing as it is ... something's gotta make up for the lost population control.

There's no reason why adult toy collectors shouldn't benefit from it.

Seriously though, it's necessary to take all precautions. The majority of TF buyers are parents, for their kids. Toy co's may as well make them safe as possible.

It's obviously not stopping anyone from buying them. I don't think they are any less awesome because some pointless projectile won't go as far as it could. I have firearms for that stuff.

As for IH's smoke stacks ... yeah. It would be nice if they were bigger, but it doesn't change the fact that he is still my favorite figure.

Can't make everybody happy. No matter if they rectify all of the issues that 1 said person has about their toys. There's going to be a guy standing next in line that's not happy with many other things ... even some of the things #1 guy in line may have changed.

You don't like something ... 1 word. There's something YOU can do about it. Kitbashing.

Edited for space and clarity of point.

Bonecrusher27 wrote:Missiles
Is there any idiot kid who'd fire a missile into his brother's eye, and if so can companies really be sued for the stupidity of its customers? It's like a fat ass suing McDonald's for making him a fat ass!

It makes more sense after you have a figure that shoots if you look at it funny. Heck, sometimes I'm just looking at a figure and it shoots at me. But as you said, some toys still have decent launchers. Even the ones you listed as having bad launchers work fine for me. It's probably more of an issue of quality control than safety control.

Smoke stacks
Then you have what could be perfect figures... except for obviously too short smokestacks that make a mockery of a beautiful design. Voyager Ironhide and various Primes are just some examples.

You obviously don't own movie Voyager Prime. Smokestacks seem to be making a comeback.

Butt Plugs
Or should that be barrel plugs? I get my terminology mixed up... Can a company still be sued if someone removes that orange plug from the toy barrel and then start waving it around? Because it can be done easily and it has been done. Is a company exonerated because it did put that orange plug in anyway?

The only thing about this that bothers me is that toy guns get this treatment and then after all the trouble don't even get released in the US.

Accessories
And finally, what perhaps was the final straw for me: I finally find a Masterpiece Voltron for a decent price. I'm amazed by its quality and the ability to articulate, the form of the lions and their articulating limbs. Then I notice something glaringly missing: where are the missiles, the knives, and the firing fists? I ask the guy, and says he, oh, accessories nowadays are hard to come by for safety reasons. WTF, asks I. TTF, replies he. "Swallowing hazard".

If you want accessories, get a THS-02B. Accessories are still allowed. That guy simply gave you misinformation.

Is this a wonderful society where accident from stupidity and irresponsibility can be lain on the doorstep of a toy company, and dishonest monies made through lawsuits?

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28331
^^^^^^^^^
READ THAT! America is just so lawsuit-happy that it's no wonder companies would rather play it safe. After all, this is the country where someone made a fortune suing McDonalds bacause the cofee was hot. Yes the person actually won.

Autobot032 wrote:
And if you want the best Voltron (all the accessories, etc) get the Lionbot bootleg. It's die-cast metal and plastic just like the original and the Matchbox original. Heads launch, etc. It's blocky (like the original toys were) but it does everything the Masterpiece does and more, and nothing's gutted, no corners cut.

Thank you. The best thing I've read re Voltron in a while. Just bought him off ebay last week and should be arriving Tuesday. Really attracted to Masterpiece because of improved articulation though.

AlienQuiksilver wrote:You don't like something ... 1 word. There's something YOU can do about it. Kitbashing

This isn't something easy for a lot of us. If I could do this I don't think I'd be half as PO'd. Still like you say, it's the only way as far as I can tell, and I'm learning. Simple stuff like changing of springs, colour of LEDs, etc. But you reach a point where you have to develop serious skills in order to dismantle stuff, solder, etc as well as have enough parts from trashable toys to replace parts you don't like etc.

Bonecrusher27 wrote:

Autobot032 wrote:
And if you want the best Voltron (all the accessories, etc) get the Lionbot bootleg. It's die-cast metal and plastic just like the original and the Matchbox original. Heads launch, etc. It's blocky (like the original toys were) but it does everything the Masterpiece does and more, and nothing's gutted, no corners cut.

Thank you. The best thing I've read re Voltron in a while. Just bought him off ebay last week and should be arriving Tuesday. Really attracted to Masterpiece because of improved articulation though.

AlienQuiksilver wrote:You don't like something ... 1 word. There's something YOU can do about it. Kitbashing

This isn't something easy for a lot of us. If I could do this I don't think I'd be half as PO'd. Still like you say, it's the only way as far as I can tell, and I'm learning. Simple stuff like changing of springs, colour of LEDs, etc. But you reach a point where you have to develop serious skills in order to dismantle stuff, solder, etc as well as have enough parts from trashable toys to replace parts you don't like etc.

I'm actually trading a few figures to a guy for kitbash work. I'm great with my hands, but lack the time needed to do these things the right way.

I hear you though, there are some talented folks out there. They make me want to not even bother with it. haha.

some people buy or visit places just with the mindset of a lawsuit.. I work at a kids themed restraunt and i have seen parents let thier kids do dangerous things hoping that they get hurt. When i stop the dangerous activity the parents usually get mad at me. It's the same with toys some parents look for things that might not be completly safe so they have a chance at a lawsuit. I have seen parents photoshop pictures to make something look more dangerous than it is. So when companies jump through hoops to make a toy safe there is a reason, they have been suied for that very problem. Its not Hasbro's fault that some kid waved a toy gun at a cop and the cop shoot him. Its the kids parents fault for raising a stupid kid. But Hasbro is the one that will get suied.

jezones wrote: Its not Hasbro's fault that some kid waved a toy gun at a cop and the cop shoot him. Its the kids parents fault for raising a stupid kid. But Hasbro is the one that will get suied.

Ok ok guys, hear ya. So it's just me really having the dissatisfaction so I'm gonna learn to live with it, while I continue my kitbashing efforts to rectify perceived problems

On another note, Jezones, what is that orange seeker you have? I thought have complete set which is:

SS
SS G1
Thundercracker

Bonecrusher27 wrote:On another note, Jezones, what is that orange seeker you have? I thought have complete set which is:

SS
SS G1
Thundercracker

That would be Sunstorm, but it's a custom job.

You know how some folks chew on a piece of hay or just have it in there mouth.. I have done that with soldering wire for over 30 years--pure lead for the most part. I turned out just fine.--I fing hate people that just :want to help me"

Personally, I think some of the safety regs are a little too strict. Yes, children can shoot a missile into a sibling's eye. The fact is though, if they really want to do it, they WILL find a way. This is experience from growing up with five brothers.

The fact is, you could hurt yourself with ANYTHING. A child could swallow marbles. They could strangle themselves with a Slinkie. You could cut open a stuffed animal for 'surgery' and suffocate on the stuffing. My brother ate a Lego or two. We used to make Chinese stars out of Constructs and throw them at each other! (They made pretty good dents in the walls).

A lot of what is going on is because parents aren't teaching their children how NOT to play with a toy and WHY and the fact that they don't take precautions. Big Brother get a toy with small parts? Make sure he puts them away so Two Year Old Brother doesn't get them. Did Timmy get a new Slinkie? Explain that wrapping it around his throat will cause him to die. It works for my daughter. Although I only buy her toys that are for her age, I EXPLAIN what she can't do with them and why. I haven't had a Slinkie fatality yet!

Wooo! Big post! Anyway, in closing. I DO think that some of these safety rules are necessary. Some, not so much if the parents get involved with their children more.

Bonecrusher27 wrote:Is there any idiot kid who'd fire a missile into his brother's eye, and if so can companies really be sued for the stupidity of its customers? It's like a fat ass suing McDonald's for making him a fat ass!

It can happen. Remember how the original Megazord had a chromed sword made from non flimsy plastic? My sister was stupid enough to throw it at my face. Almost hit my left eye.

The real bottom line here is liability. For huge corporations like Hasbro, it is now financially irresponsible for them to take a chance with their products to preserve things like smokestacks.

The average US citizen is SOOOOO quick to think lawsuit anytime anything happens to them. People know that Hasbro has deep pockets, making them a prime target (no pun intented.) Companies as large as Hasbro will usually just settle out of court so that a potential lawsuit never hits the mainstream.

The kids who were hurt or killed from these toys didnt change the regulations. The families of those children gutting companies like Hasbro in damages is why our missiles are long, and our stacks are short.

Lawsuits and bad publicity, this is why american TF collectors have a silly blaze orange plug in their megatrons.

the missiles on classics ramjet and classics starscream fires pretty strong. but i don't use this feature, and i prefer it of they didn't fire just because i don't want to lose the pieces.

Missiles:
It's not just the firing into the body/eyes that smaller missiles are banned, they are a chocking hazard for young children (and older dumber people).

Smokestacks:
Are shorter so as they cannot be snapped off and swallowed. I don't really know why though, a kid can just rip an arm/leg off and swallow that if they want.

Personally I don't think Hasbro can be blamed for their safety measures, they are complying with the laws written by the USA (and other countries where applicable) and then cover themselves as best as possible from wasteful lawsuits.