The Energon Pub

I've seen alot of banter between those who prefer a moderately nice figure whose in scale to the rest of the and those who believe the bigger, more detailed, and Articulated the better..

So where do you stand on this issues? I for one would love everything in a leader class, with supremely accurate detailing and likeness to cartoon or movies, comics, ect....

But then again I like scale, and love the Takara Tomy Reissue Beast Wars figures, with an accurately scaled Megatron and Optimus Primal.. Granted Rhinox and Dinobot are smaller then they should be.. but overall it's a nice series..

I guess as an MISB/MIB collector scale for me is an after thought, because I only want a figure who accurately captures the essence of that character.. so Leader class or Voyager is okay by me.. deluxes, and so forth are nice but alot of people on the fandom have expressed why ceertain figures and characters shouldn't have a scale increase...

Madness I tell you!!! Pure insane Madness!!!

Wishful thinking or not, If I have the option of Getting a Leaderclass I will.. but then again there are also Pros and Cons as to what's the best toy.. and some things about some deluxes are better then Leader class.. and vice versa.. I gues it's up to the individual collector..

For those who open their toys and place them on a shelf, there has to be somewhat of a scale otherwise they probably feel like their collection is way off..

To an MISB, well, it's not about that, its about how well this toy represents it's namesake..gadgets and lights, ect...

Or you could just be a guy who likes to take one out at a time and display and they switch, which means you want the best looking representation possible.. either way.. whose to say the other is wrong or right...????

As far as this issue goes, I really like the figures to be accurate, especially the cartoon series'. Scratch that out for the movie line though, they'll never get it 100%.

Scale is not so much of a deal to me. Take Classics Astrotrain for example. Even if he was a Supreme, he's obviously still too small scalewise and he'd be one hell of a big triple-changer. While it'd be nice, it just isn't practical.

Here's my concerns:

1 ) Robot mode proportions

2 ) Robot mode articulation

3 ) Alt mode quality (whether realism, or 'cool factor').

There's no order to it. A figure with great proportions and only average articulation and alt mode might be edged out by a figure with above average articulation and proportions but excellent alt mode, or whatever.

By the same token, a particularly bad example of one or more can totally turn me off of a figure. For example Movie Leader Megs has good proportions and articulation, but his alt mode is total crap. On the other end, Backstop has a cool alt mode and decent (if chunky) proportions, but crap articuation. For neither of those two figures do their good points outweigh their bad ones in my opinion.

I should also note that scale to the other figs in the line almost never factors in for me. Thanks to G1, I can imagine a Porche 924 (Cliffjumper) having a robot mode only 2/3 the size of a Porche 935 (Jazz), despite the fact that the 935 is almost 250 pounds lighter than the 924.

I prefer my TFs to be articulated above all else. Maybe it's a hold-over from my days as a MG Gundam enthusiast, buy I really hate it when my TF can't do anything but stand straight with the arms either at its side or pointed straight out in front of it.

Scale isn't really a major issue with me, even with the movie TFs. I don't mind if a 'Bot or 'Con is smaller than they are supposed to be, as long as they a)can strike a decent pose and b)look half decent.

I'm not really concerned with scale all that much either.. some fans are obssessed with it, it seems..

Like what if Hasbro made a Leader class this or that? and those scale enthusists go nutZ!!!

"No I don't want leader class this, he would be out of scale..!!!"

my point of view is, who cares.. I just want the best representation of my favorite character..Scale becomes an isssue only if I was playing with my toys.. and in all honesty, I just collect them for display, I'm 30 and don't see a reason to play with my Transformers.. For now they are stored, but someday they will be displayed, and I want the best version of each character, not a freaking moderately good toy with some articulation and accurate scale..

I could have sooo much more with a larger bot..

I collect 'casts' and 'groups'.

All of my collections are displayed as such.

Why does Beast Machines get no shelf time? Because it looks retarded when displayed together.

I don't care how nice the individual pieces are, if they don't have a theme or group to go with, they're right out.

I won't buy toys that are just out of scale to some crazy degree.

Ultimate Bumblebee?

No way. Doesn't fit with Alts or MP.

Leader Class Barricade, Jazz, or something equally stupid? No, again, does not fit in.

If you want the most accurate representation of a character and you aren't going to handle (ie play) it, start collecting statues.

That's where your market is.

Counterpunch wrote:I collect 'casts' and 'groups'.

All of my collections are displayed as such.

Why does Beast Machines get no shelf time? Because it looks retarded when displayed together.

I don't care how nice the individual pieces are, if they don't have a theme or group to go with, they're right out.

I won't buy toys that are just out of scale to some crazy degree.

Ultimate Bumblebee?

No way. Doesn't fit with Alts or MP.

Leader Class Barricade, Jazz, or something equally stupid? No, again, does not fit in.

If you want the most accurate representation of a character and you aren't going to handle (ie play) it, start collecting statues.

That's where your market is.

No statues are just that, static representations, being articulated means posability..see having a posable figure means you can change your mind on how he looks on that shelf, whereas a statue, your limited by the artists concepts of what he thought was cool..for that particular character..Having a super detailed and very articulate Transformer means you have the best of both worlds.. so what if you don't transform them into altmode, the option is there..

I agree that Scale comes into play once and awhile, but Ultimate Bumblebee is no where in that Leader Class category..

If all the movie characters had been created and produced into Leader Class, I wouldn't feel upset that any 0f them were smaller..I'd be happy they were given such attention to detail..still with scale there will always be some that are never in scale with any of the other bots made.. Omega Supreme, Skyfire, Astrotrain, ect.. ect..

I like scale to a point, but its an after thought for me..After the articulation, details, paint applications, and likeness...

But like I said earlier, its up to those who open them for display versus those who keep them MISB, or just want to open the biggest and best..

The scale issue drives me nuts. I don't care about scale at all, but I know many collectors do, so that's cool. But when people get all tied up in the scale arguements I start to wonder. People want Leader class everyones from the movie, not necessarily because they're good figures but because then Blackout would be in scale. The problem them is that you need Voyager class everyone elses. Barricade would be out of scale as a Deluxe if you had Leader MEgatron and Brawl and Blackout and Bonecrusher and Starscream.
We all want to talk about how these toys are meant for children but then people start yelling about how we need, NEED mind you, Leader class Blackout for the sake of scale.
I personally enjoy a quality figure. I think there's a balance between articulation and accuracy and size and playability. But size would be the least of my concerns. For instance, I really like the FABs from the movie. They are not too posable, but they look nice and are fun to mess around with. That's the mark of a good figure. It's a toy.....it has to be FUN.

I'm not too keen on gimmicks, I want details and realism!

Scale doesn't really matter to me at all. I tend to look at figures on an individual basis. Although it would be really silly to have a deluxe Omega Supreme or something like that.

I really want the essence of the figure to remain true to its roots. That's why Classics Astrotrain drives me nuts. If they just would have colored him purple and grey, he would have been damn near perfect in my eyes.

I like scale to be pretty uniform. Most of the deluxe cars for the unicron Trilogy fit well together, and the Leader-class Primes of those series fit in well too (most likely because their trailers aren't part of their primary transformation). Unfortunately, there seem to be issues with the voyager and ultra sized figures. Energon Ironhide may be the worst culprit. he's IMMENSE. I kinda like the figure on its own, and he makes a decent stand-in for Crosshairs when you think about it, but he looks ridiculous next to the deluxe-class cars. If he had been a voyager in the scale of Classics (which were bigger than Deluxe but just barely), he would have looked great, I think. On the other hand, Classics Prime seems kinda small. Big enough to run with the voyager subordinates, but...still a little dinky.

Now, flying alt-mode guys I have less of an issue with. Sure, Starscream and Astrotrain especially from classics would logically be much bigger than they are. It's easier, though, to imagine that the alt mode in question is far off, in the sky or even in space. I'd rather that Astrotrain was an ultra or Leader class (imagine a much more interesting and complex train mode, multiple cars, etc) but I can deal with the deluxe class since, well, we haven't seen a new Astrotrain since G1 (and now the club exclusive, which I must eventually make mine).

I quite like that Bumblebee/Cliffjumper were made deluxes in Classics. At first I thought "hey. ripoff, these guys are the minibots" but as my ever-dimming appreciation for the G1 toy line marches on, I'm much more pleased with them being vehicles that don't look like Power Wheels next to the other deluxe cars. They fill a niche of compact, fuel economical cars. Now, I do wish that guys like Cybertron Overhaul had been a bit bigger, because he makes a great stand-in for Brawn, but again the vehicle mode scale is getting to me. I hope that when the next classic-styled figures are rolled out, that other minibots like him, Beachcomber, Windcharger and others are worked in as Deluxes. 'Comber and 'Charger would fit well in the "econo-car" bit, though Brawn would adnittedly be better off as a full deluxe (Not to say he couldn't retain a squat, compact-but-dense robot form though).

I'm actually really into this now so I'm gonna keep clunkin' along.

Cybertronian vehicles are a blessing and a curse. It's true they seem a little out of place next to mundane things like some of the Earth-mode guys, but on the upside, scale for them is quite subjective. It's easy, for example, to cope with Energon Omega Supreme not being the size of an Autobot base in his alt-modes. The crane-turret combo works fine, and the boat/construction vehicle/hypertrain is fine as well because there's no precedent for scale in Cybertronian design. It's simply "big" or "not". Human passenger size doesn't have to fit into the equation. Likewise I have no problem with Minicons, because, being from Cybertron, it doesn't matter to me that they look like Power Wheels cars for toddlers by comparison. They do the same jobs as their larger counterparts, just in a smaller scale. Cybertron Heavy Load is a Dumptruck just like Energon Demolishor, but he carries much less, is probably faster, and still has his part to play.

Motorcycles ALWAYS bother me. On the one hand, they have some of the most interesting transformations out there. Energon Arcee is a fantastic treatment. The problem is that they're a vehicle that's CLEARLY designed with a rider in mind, at least the more Earth-modey ones are, and they suffer from being the same size as a small car when packaged as Basics. Cybertron Ransack and his repaints are, again, an exception, because they're steeped in Cybertronian stylings and lack the desperate call for a driver to be onboard. But then they go and make Lugnutz, who besides his unfortunate name and stumpy, useless arms, is enormous for what his alt-mode is. Maybe a 2-pack of smaller motorcycle bots to be sold as a basic or even deluxe set?

Finally, Mass-shifters. Can't stand them 90% of the time. I have Classics Megatron because, well, his robot mode is so absolutely perfectly Megatronesque to me that I must have him. He's even got pseudo-minicon ports on the wings! I wouldn't mind having a G1 soundwave, but only for retro-cool, stand-alone display because this is 2007 and he's a gigantic tapedeck. he'd fit perfectly with my Real Gears, perhaps.

Well, that's how I weigh in on scale issues. I'm just a little depressed I guess, that there are figures with great potential out there that feel clunky because when they hang out with everyone else they're either comically oversized or puny.