The Energon Pub

do you count minicons are "transformers...... like overload would count as 2 transformers cause he has his headmaster...... or comemorative soundwave countas as 3 cause he has ravage and laserbeak???? just curious

The way I count it is....

Minicons count individually, Cassetes count individually. Where I draw the line is with Headmasters, TargetMasters, and Powermasters. The Head, Gun, Engine don't count seperately.

So with Overload I would count as one Transformer.

Where it differs though is with the smaller Armada Prime that comes with Over Run I would consider 2 Transformers. Hope that helps.

I count my Mini-Cons just like my other Transformers. That way I can say I have more

Dragonslayer wrote:I count my Mini-Cons just like my other Transformers. That way I can say I have more

I do the same.

Mostly 'cus I have so few. (thanks to the Great Purge of '04)

In some cases like the head masters i count the mincons as part of the transformer

skyfire914 wrote:In some cases like the head masters i count the mincons as part of the transformer

I do the same whenever the Transformer cannot be complete without his partner. For instance the cassettes can function by themselves, but the Headmaster Transformers need their symbiotic partners to function properly.

Just like some others here I count my mini-cons as seperate. Headmasters and such I count as one transformer.

I had some really good rules that I came up with at one point ... I think there were a total of 6 rules that I had. The basis of the rules basically revolved around what you guys have stated above. If the Transformer can function completely without the partner, then the partner is counted as a secondary Transformer.

Let's see if I can remember my rules:

1. Combiners are individually counted. The Gestalt form is not counted.

2. Mini-Cons are counted as separate Transformers when the primary robot doesn't need the Mini-Con. Overload, Omega Supreme and Omega Sentinel's Mini-Cons do not count as separate Mini-Cons because they are needed to make the full robot complete (i.e. the form of the primary robot's head).

3. Master partners are not counted as individual Transformers except in the case of the extra Japanese exclusive Headmaster heads and Powermaster engines which were sold separate from a larger Transector body.
Pretenders are 1 Transformer. Action Master partners are the equivalent of a Targetmaster and therefore are considered a necessary accessory for the primary robot.

4. Cassettes can function completely separate from their Cassette Player masters (i.e. Soundwave, Twincast, etc) so they are counted separately. The recent Hasbro reissue of Soundwave would be considered as 3 Transformers (Soundwave + Ravage + Laserbeak).

5. Here's the shady rule that I have: I do not consider Transformers that need a partner to complete their alternate mode transformation as a Gestalt form. G1 Dreadwing is not a Gestalt. Reflector is not a Gestalt. The Micromaster Combiner Transports are not Gestalts. Each individual robot is considered as a separate Transformer because the combined mode is not a separate character which is the case with the Gestalt Combiners. At one point, I did consider the combined Reflector robots as 1 Transformer but my definition of the Micromaster Combiner Transports being individual Transformers contradicts Reflector. Since Reflector is the only non-Micromaster who needs 3 robots to make the combined alternate form, I make an exception for Reflector as 3 robots because of the Micromasters.

Rule #5 is the rule that is most debated when I post my counting methods. Reflector seems to be the biggest issue.

One of these days when I perfect the Vector Sigma Database, I would like to give you guys the ability to have an online checklist of your Transformers that you can maintain. I think there should be several different counts of your collections ... a figure count by my rules (Reflector would be counted as 3, the Star Saber Mini-Cons are counted as 3), a character count (the Constructicons would be counted as 7, Hot Shot and Jolt are 2) and a figure set count (Reflector would be counted as 1 complete set, Hotshot and Jolt would be considered 1 set, the Star Saber Mini-Cons would be considered as 1 set). This would essentially resolve all counting issues if people were honest about their collections in their lists.

Seibertron wrote:I had some really good rules that I came up with at one point ... I think there were a total of 6 rules that I had. The basis of the rules basically revolved around what you guys have stated above. If the Transformer can function completely without the partner, then the partner is counted as a secondary Transformer.

Let's see if I can remember my rules:

1. Combiners are individually counted. The Gestalt form is not counted.

2. Mini-Cons are counted as separate Transformers when the primary robot doesn't need the Mini-Con. Overload, Omega Supreme and Omega Sentinel's Mini-Cons do not count as separate Mini-Cons because they are needed to make the full robot complete (i.e. the form of the primary robot's head).

3. Master partners are not counted as individual Transformers except in the case of the extra Japanese exclusive Headmaster heads and Powermaster engines which were sold separate from a larger Transector body.
Pretenders are 1 Transformer. Action Master partners are the equivalent of a Targetmaster and therefore are considered a necessary accessory for the primary robot.

4. Cassettes can function completely separate from their Cassette Player masters (i.e. Soundwave, Twincast, etc) so they are counted separately. The recent Hasbro reissue of Soundwave would be considered as 3 Transformers (Soundwave + Ravage + Laserbeak).

5. Here's the shady rule that I have: I do not consider Transformers that need a partner to complete their alternate mode transformation as a Gestalt form. G1 Dreadwing is not a Gestalt. Reflector is not a Gestalt. The Micromaster Combiner Transports are not Gestalts. Each individual robot is considered as a separate Transformer because the combined mode is not a separate character which is the case with the Gestalt Combiners. At one point, I did consider the combined Reflector robots as 1 Transformer but my definition of the Micromaster Combiner Transports being individual Transformers contradicts Reflector. Since Reflector is the only non-Micromaster who needs 3 robots to make the combined alternate form, I make an exception for Reflector as 3 robots because of the Micromasters.

Rule #5 is the rule that is most debated when I post my counting methods. Reflector seems to be the biggest issue.

One of these days when I perfect the Vector Sigma Database, I would like to give you guys the ability to have an online checklist of your Transformers that you can maintain. I think there should be several different counts of your collections ... a figure count by my rules (Reflector would be counted as 3, the Star Saber Mini-Cons are counted as 3), a character count (the Constructicons would be counted as 7, Hot Shot and Jolt are 2) and a figure set count (Reflector would be counted as 1 complete set, Hotshot and Jolt would be considered 1 set, the Star Saber Mini-Cons would be considered as 1 set). This would essentially resolve all counting issues if people were honest about their collections in their lists.

So with Rule #5, you are stating that you do not count Reflector, but you do count the three robots that make the up the camera, correct? If that's the case, I don't see any contradiction between rule #5 & #1 because you don't count the gestalt form.

I count my Transformers individually be it minicons or large Transformers headmasters I only count as one because you need the head to complete the whole Transformer. Gestalts I only count the individual components as you need all of the components to complete the Gestalt form. My knockoff transformers I count as a separate category.

As it stands right now I have 395 authentic Transformers
32 knockoff Transformers
And just for good measure 13 Starwars Transformers

Galaxion wrote: My knockof transformers I count as a separate category.

As it should be...

i count mine to make my collection seem bigger

stormrider wrote:So with Rule #5, you are stating that you do not count Reflector, but you do count the three robots that make the up the camera, correct? If that's the case, I don't see any contradiction between rule #5 & #1 because you don't count the gestalt form.

Ah good point. The problem some people will tell you is that the individual components of Reflector don't have individual alt modes. That seems to be a must for some people. The robot mode is more important to me than the alt-mode, so the individual robots that comprise Reflector should each be counted as an individual bot in my book.

Seibertron wrote:

stormrider wrote:So with Rule #5, you are stating that you do not count Reflector, but you do count the three robots that make the up the camera, correct? If that's the case, I don't see any contradiction between rule #5 & #1 because you don't count the gestalt form.

Ah good point. The problem some people will tell you is that the individual components of Reflector don't have individual alt modes. That seems to be a must for some people. The robot mode is more important to me than the alt-mode, so the individual robots that comprise Reflector should each be counted as an individual bot in my book.

I agree. It's the individual spark that is important.

Seibertron wrote:

stormrider wrote:So with Rule #5, you are stating that you do not count Reflector, but you do count the three robots that make the up the camera, correct? If that's the case, I don't see any contradiction between rule #5 & #1 because you don't count the gestalt form.

Ah good point. The problem some people will tell you is that the individual components of Reflector don't have individual alt modes. That seems to be a must for some people. The robot mode is more important to me than the alt-mode, so the individual robots that comprise Reflector should each be counted as an individual bot in my book.

They do have individual alt modes, two blocks, and a block with a viewfinder. But as far as functioning, well that's another thing...

I'm kidding, I too consider the robot modes to be the most important...

The questions that always arrive:

Roller?
Metroplex and his buddies?
Fort Max and his buddies?
Scorponok and his buddies?
Trypticon and his buddies?

I believe Roller is a part of Prime's consciousness so not individual..

However...

Slammer, Scamper and Six Gun (Metroplex)?
Gasket and Grommet for Fort Max?
The tank and car for Trypticon (escapes me)?
Fasttrack for Scorponok?

I would count Gasket and Grommet as one extra (together) for Fort Max, Scamper certainly should be separate for Metroplex--Six Gun and Slammer though??? Are they like Roller??

Fasttrack would also count as another 1 separate from Scorponok...

Thoughts???

tigertracks 24 wrote:

Seibertron wrote:

stormrider wrote:So with Rule #5, you are stating that you do not count Reflector, but you do count the three robots that make the up the camera, correct? If that's the case, I don't see any contradiction between rule #5 & #1 because you don't count the gestalt form.

Ah good point. The problem some people will tell you is that the individual components of Reflector don't have individual alt modes. That seems to be a must for some people. The robot mode is more important to me than the alt-mode, so the individual robots that comprise Reflector should each be counted as an individual bot in my book.

They do have individual alt modes, two blocks, and a block with a viewfinder. But as far as functioning, well that's another thing...

I'm kidding, I too consider the robot modes to be the most important...

The questions that always arrive:

Roller?
Metroplex and his buddies?
Fort Max and his buddies?
Scorponok and his buddies?
Trypticon and his buddies?

I believe Roller is a part of Prime's consciousness so not individual..

However...

Slammer, Scamper and Six Gun (Metroplex)?
Gasket and Grommet for Fort Max?
The tank and car for Trypticon (escapes me)?
Fasttrack for Scorponok?

I would count Gasket and Grommet as one extra (together) for Fort Max, Scamper certainly should be separate for Metroplex--Six Gun and Slammer though??? Are they like Roller??

Fasttrack would also count as another 1 separate from Scorponok...

Thoughts???

Many that you describe are drones. They are controlled by the minds of the robots that you described. The only one that I am not entirely sure about is Cerebros.

looks like i gotta recount

I count each minicon as its own bot, but I would count masters with the bot they came with as one entity. Now only if I had any masters...

Same as most people, Minicons are seperate, masters and their bodies are not, drones are not counted as seperate, and only the components of a gestalt and not the whole count.

Well I am aggreance with the normal community

minicons count as 1 a piece
combiners count as 1 a piece
but the combined form does not count as a new robot.

oh yeah and in the case of Fort Max and other tfs like him. They count as 1 tf.

gestalts count as 5 figures for me.

Seibertron wrote:I had some really good rules that I came up with at one point ... I think there were a total of 6 rules that I had. The basis of the rules basically revolved around what you guys have stated above. If the Transformer can function completely without the partner, then the partner is counted as a secondary Transformer.

Let's see if I can remember my rules:

1. Combiners are individually counted. The Gestalt form is not counted.

2. Mini-Cons are counted as separate Transformers when the primary robot doesn't need the Mini-Con. Overload, Omega Supreme and Omega Sentinel's Mini-Cons do not count as separate Mini-Cons because they are needed to make the full robot complete (i.e. the form of the primary robot's head).

3. Master partners are not counted as individual Transformers except in the case of the extra Japanese exclusive Headmaster heads and Powermaster engines which were sold separate from a larger Transector body.
Pretenders are 1 Transformer. Action Master partners are the equivalent of a Targetmaster and therefore are considered a necessary accessory for the primary robot.

4. Cassettes can function completely separate from their Cassette Player masters (i.e. Soundwave, Twincast, etc) so they are counted separately. The recent Hasbro reissue of Soundwave would be considered as 3 Transformers (Soundwave + Ravage + Laserbeak).

5. Here's the shady rule that I have: I do not consider Transformers that need a partner to complete their alternate mode transformation as a Gestalt form. G1 Dreadwing is not a Gestalt. Reflector is not a Gestalt. The Micromaster Combiner Transports are not Gestalts. Each individual robot is considered as a separate Transformer because the combined mode is not a separate character which is the case with the Gestalt Combiners. At one point, I did consider the combined Reflector robots as 1 Transformer but my definition of the Micromaster Combiner Transports being individual Transformers contradicts Reflector. Since Reflector is the only non-Micromaster who needs 3 robots to make the combined alternate form, I make an exception for Reflector as 3 robots because of the Micromasters.

Rule #5 is the rule that is most debated when I post my counting methods. Reflector seems to be the biggest issue.

One of these days when I perfect the Vector Sigma Database, I would like to give you guys the ability to have an online checklist of your Transformers that you can maintain. I think there should be several different counts of your collections ... a figure count by my rules (Reflector would be counted as 3, the Star Saber Mini-Cons are counted as 3), a character count (the Constructicons would be counted as 7, Hot Shot and Jolt are 2) and a figure set count (Reflector would be counted as 1 complete set, Hotshot and Jolt would be considered 1 set, the Star Saber Mini-Cons would be considered as 1 set). This would essentially resolve all counting issues if people were honest about their collections in their lists.

Thats how i do it. And that checklist is a great idea.

Seibertron wrote:1. Combiners are individually counted. The Gestalt form is not counted.

This is where out methods of couting differ.
I count a members of a gestalt team and their combined form.
By my way Mensor counts as 6, Liokaiser as 7 etc.
This is purely to count whether or not you own the parts needed to assemble the gestalt or not, as it is possiblt to own all members of a team but still be missing the head, hands etc.

In the case of the yellow constructicons released at the end of G1 without the devestator parts, they count as 6 figures, whereas a complete set of (green) G1 or G2 constructicons counts as 7 by my method.

Cujo wrote:do you count minicons are "transformers...... like overload would count as 2 transformers cause he has his headmaster...... or comemorative soundwave countas as 3 cause he has ravage and laserbeak???? just curious

I have just wondered over this 2 my dear Cujo!
Well i think that i want too count:
Robots ( Casettes, Micromasters and Transfigs )
Mini-cons
Nebulons