The Energon Pub

Firstly, if this topic belongs elsewhere, or needs to be moved, I apologise and mods please do so!

Hi all, long-time lurker, first-time poster. I've been a fan of Transformers since 1984, when I first saw "More Than Meets The Eye" hacked up as part of ITV's Wide Awake early morning show (I'm in the UK).

As well as the robots in disguise, I collect various other toylines, including Star Wars. In that collecting community at the moment, there is a big to-do over the issue of reissues/reproduction parts and their impact on the hobby. Some feel they are an affordable way of completing figures with their correct weapons and accessories, while others feel they are tantamount to heresy, and are having a negative effect on the value of items, trust amongst collectors, confidence when buying - some sellers, rather than freely admitting they have repro items, try and pass them off as "the real deal" for example.

The situation is slightly different for Transformers, but there are similarities, and I'm interested in hearing what others think. For example, repro-stickers and labels for our old TFs. Good thing or bad thing? Do you consider a toy you have with "new" stickers as a genuine complete figure, or a genuine figure with repro parts? How long do you think it will be before some enterprising fans start making repro missiles, weapons, accessories etc - and will this be a good thing or bad? Imagine being able to easily pick up a spare Sunstreaker fist, or Aerialbots guns for a fraction of the price they go for on ebay currently...

And what of reissues? Do you consider a Commemorative/TF Collection reissue Jazz as a "Generation 1 Jazz" in your collection, or is he something separate, a whole other series? For example, I count my reissues as part of my G1 collection, and not as a different series - despite them not being "made" in 1984-1986. But I can see why some people wouldn't. What if some one included a reissue weapon (I'm talking about the Japanese ones now which are near-identical, not the Hasbro reissue ones which are often larger/altered) with an original G1 figure and said that it was all "vintage original"? No harm, no foul? Or a real problem for the TF fan community?

And what of repro figures themselves? Obviously the old gestalt remakes from China were pretty easy to distinguish as inferior quality, but from what I hear the new KO Swoop and Decepticon cassettes are almost "reissue" quality. They really appeal as a way of getting my fave characters/toys for a good price, but are such releases harming the market?

I'm interested in opinions on the subject! I'm not quite sure where I fall in the whole repro debate anyway. I would hate to buy anything and not be confident I know whether its original/repro. But at the same time, I can understand/appreciate the opportunity to buy a Luke Skywalker lightsaber repro for 50p so my figure looks complete, rather than £4-5. As long as a seller is honest as to what he's selling. But seller honesty is a whole other debate I suppose...

Welcome to Seibertron.
Since your thread is about toys it is alright where it is.

Personally, I class my G1 reissues as part of my G1 collection/display. As far as I'm concerned, there's no reason to differentiate.

E-Hobby releases may be a different matter.

I don't particularly class reprolables as nullifying the "original" quality of the toy, though obviously a toy is not 100% original with them. On a personal level, though, it makes no difference to me.

I'll do with and display my toys as I alone see fit. There's no room for discussion on that matter.

I place my G1 re-issues ahead of my original G1s, because they are in a hell of a lot better condition.

Welcome to Seibertron!

I consider the official Reissues from Hasbro or Takara as real G1. While I know they are not worth as much as an original, I don't care. TH=here is more value to me presonally that I can go into a TRU and buy a G1 figure today, it's like being a kid again. Also remember that Hasbro did reissue 1st year figures in the late 80s under the "Classics" line. So while technically available during G1, they are not first run G1 figures.

I don't like knockoffs cause they are mostly likely not worth the $5 they cost, they are made poorly and because of that are frustrating to handle. I do not buy knockoffs except for interesting figures, like the World's Smallest Dinobots (yes, I consider them knockoffs).

As for reporo parts, I am ok with that as the accessories are important to me only in the fact that the figure needs to be complete, so a repro is fine for a small accessory.

I think this question depends on what your purpose is. If you want to have G1 figures in hand and are not all that worried about value, reissues and repros are great. If you want a parts matching 1967 Corvette, well, in G1 equivalent, then they are not okay. Only the original article in mint packaging will be okay.

Personally, I do not want to take out a second mortgage just to have figures I really love and want to play with. Part of me regrets that I could have sold some of my toys for a mint if I had not opened the boxes. But then the little kid in me jumps out and throws a slushball right in my ear.

Thanks for the welcomes guys, and the interesting responses! For me, the characters are what's most important, so reissues are just fine with me!
Torn on the recent cassette KOs though...does anyone have a link to an in-depth review/analysis of them, and a comparison with the originals? What about the Swoop KO? To me, the Chinese combiner reissues of several years ago are below-par in quality for my collection. But if these newer ones are of a better quality - for characters that I'd like, but am not overly fussed about (e.g. Rumble, Frenzy, Ratbat) they might be the way to go.

I actually found a use for the Chinese KO combiners: my niece and 2 nephews. In a 4 ways battle between Abominus, Superon and Menatron (Menasor w/ Computron for some reason), & me with Devastator it would usually be the exact opposite of G1. When a combiner broke apart you had the advantage of outnumbering the rest. Until my niece beaned her little brother with a Blot to the forehead. Ah, to be young again...

I separate into "original G1" and "G1 reissue" catagories. Most of my reissues don't leave the box, and my originals, well, most of the original boxes are in the landfill.

I have nothing but G1 reissues since I was dumb enough to give my toys away when I was a kid. They are no different to me than the original thing, if I had managed to keep any.

my reissues stand proudly with what's left of my old G1 collection, and as for repros, if it's something easily lost or broken, and you need a new one, by all means buy a repro, same goes for stickers... if they're thrashed, I see the repros as an inexpensive way to make a figure whole again.

I'm big advocate for reprolabels. I think they provide a wonderful service and they certainly helped me spruce up my childhood Devestator and WST Dinorobots. KOs I tend to avoid like the plague. I only have one and it is a placeholder until I can afford/find the version I really want. It is the Rattrap KO from Big Lots. Lastly, I do appreciate the idea of repro parts but I have yet to actively buy any. To me it doesn't feel right to buy them. That's me though, I feel if someone can settle for a repro part for their figures and it makes them happy, all the power to that person. IMO these new fakes, while they look like fantastic product, frustrate me. There should be something obvious about the packaging or figures that sets them apart from original releases. Fakes make me mad.

::EDIT::
Forgot a couple things, welcome to Seibertron. Also, I loves me some reissues. Most of the G1 stuff I've got is reissues. I like new clean TFs. I proudly display them with the rest of my G1 collection. Of which, some have reprolabels. I display my Brave Max with the G1 style spychangers standing all over him, with a Micromaster Combiner and WST Dino battle at his feet. Wow, I love my TFs. This thread makes me want to go play!!

Re-issues I have no problem regarding as G1 and including them in my figures. I won't however tell someone they're original, I am more than willing to admit to them being reissues.

Repro-stickers I also have no problem with for my personal collection. However if someone sold me a figure with reprostickers and told me they were original, then i'd be pissed off as i've been lied to. Yes, I have no problem with the stickers themselves, just the false advertising.

Knock-offs I can tolerate. They can be good for kitbashing but if I come across anyone who trys to pass a knock-off in their collection as an original figure, then I will simply consider that person scum, plain and simple. You want to own a knock-off G1 Swoop? Go right ahead, just don't try to tell me it's a Takara/Hasbro authorised figure.

I love the Takara re-issues. They are exactly like the originals, with a few exceptions due to molds being lost or broken. The Hasbro U.S. re-issues, however, were generally released with modified accessories so I stayed clear of those.

I have used reprolabels to spiff up some of my G1 figures that were otherwise near mint. They are one of the best things ever and I'm thinking of getting their set for my Alt Meister.

If I was a collector, I'd certainly keep repros and such separate and never touch knockoffs.

However, I get these things because I ENJOY them. I recently got a few sets of knockoff Robotmasters cyberjets, Ligier, a tow truck I can't remember the name of for the life of me, and an armadillo whose name I can't remember either. But while they're crappy quality (for example the head and left forearm of the tow truck pops off CONSTANTLY), I still enjoy them as TOYS and also will be using them as generics or drones in the photocomic I'm doing at TFW.

As for repros, I really only own one re-issue - G1 Smokescreen. Mainly because he was the cheapest of the Datsun mold variants at TRU at the time I bought him, and that mold was always one of my favorites. However, I do own several of the Universe Energon Basics and the Universe Steamhammer and Barricade.

And don't worry, Burn, if you came to my house and I showed you my haphazard "collection" (only about 100 or so right now), I'd cheerfully say "There's my Universe version of Barricade, the knockoff Defensor I got for five bucks, and my knockoff Megatron, right next to reissue Smokescreen, WST Red Alert, and Classics Ramjet!" or some such nonsense.

If you're going to make $$ or have an investment, it matters. If you''re gonna just have fun, as long as they don't break when you transform them, it's entirely up to you.

Godmodule wrote:I separate into "original G1" and "G1 reissue" catagories. Most of my reissues don't leave the box, and my originals, well, most of the original boxes are in the landfill.

Same here. My reissues are all MISB and display right behind the real deal. It is a nice cheap way of having the figure displayed in both modes.

As for Reprolabels, I will use them to restore complete junkers. I normally do not need them as I buy mostly 100% mint bodies for themost part. However,, I use no repro parts whatsoever for my G1s. I feel that those detract from the value and charm of the figure. I would rather be missing a missile and keep it on my to find list rather than buy a cheap identical repro. Besides the fact that I think it takes away from the charm of the figure, it also keep s a much harder quest alive. I know that I will enjoy fimding a random little piece I am missing ten years from now far more than ordering a 50 cent repro part. I'm in no rush to complete my collection 100%. I fI did that, what the hell would I do with my spare time then?

As for the Chinese KOs. No matter how nice they are, once again I would keep them seperate. I like the fact that 80% of my collection is older than my gf.

Ofcourse, the trouble lies with dealer honesty. But as you said, that is a whole sepearate topic. As for the depreciation effect, I'm all for it. Means I can get some original G1s for less in the future than now. Nice! Since I'm never going to sell any of miine, the resale value could be squat for all I care.

Edit: I love reprolabels for their label sets for the alternaters and classics. They're awesome and I used every set.

Valandar wrote:And don't worry, Burn, if you came to my house and I showed you my haphazard "collection" (only about 100 or so right now), I'd cheerfully say "There's my Universe version of Barricade, the knockoff Defensor I got for five bucks, and my knockoff Megatron, right next to reissue Smokescreen, WST Red Alert, and Classics Ramjet!" or some such nonsense.

Now that i've rearranged my room I can do the same. I have my knockoffs set up in one corner, mostly because it's stable there and they can't constantly fall down like they'd do if I moved them some where else.