The Energon Pub

I am posting this to prove a point!

This question has been brought up on other boards throughout the fandom and none those threads seem to get locked. But I assume this one will right after I post it.

What is wrong here? Is it the people? The general attitude at seibertron? This is getting sad, I want to have a legitimate discussion about whether or not Henkei Thundercracker, thrust etc could possible come out in Japan and what they might look like.

The fact that this can't happen here is making me look elsewhere.

This "tension in the air" about henkei seekers is what TF collecting is all about! You never know what's going to be worth money and what isn't. I am posting this as someone who has the Botcon 07 set, and is very interested to see what Japan is going to do about it, and then what the fandom and Hasbro's follow up is!!! I hate sports but I love this ****!

if henkei can give me a thundercracker, then so be it!

I understand your intentions, but even though it has been lost amidst animosity it has been covered in other threads.

If they do decide to release other Seekers, they will more than likely:

Not make a new mold. Which would mean no Thrust
Release a Thundercracker toward the end of the line, possibly in a box with Skywarp? Ala Robot Masters.
Have significantly different detailing on Thundercracker.
Not release Dirge at all as the coneheads are nowhere near as popular as the original trio.

That's my belief anyhow. Repaints are never a sure thing, and should not be automatically expected. As a Skywarp collector this is painfully true.

i guess thats why they call it hope!

There are two locked topic about Henkei Botcon Seekers on the first page, one of which is mine, and my intentions were as orthodox as yours. It just seems that mods don't like duplicate threads.

Glitcher wrote:There are two locked topic about Henkei Botcon Seekers on the first page, one of which is mine, and my intentions were as orthodox as yours. It just seems that mods don't like duplicate threads.

No, mods dont like Stylus threatening people with death because he cant afford toys.

Look through the locked threads, there is only one reason that they were locked up, because Stylus somehow made a connection between him not having botcon seekers and his parents broken marriage, and then decided to take it out on all of us.

One more topic that noone on Seib will post about again. My vote is to ban stylus and allow the thread but I am sure that wont happen.

As much as we'd both like to see the last of Sylus, I actually got a PM from a mod explaining that the thread was locked because it was a duplicate, which apparently is against the forum rules. Don't worry though, Sylus' time will come eventually.

Glitcher wrote:As much as we'd both like to see the last of Sylus, I actually got a PM from a mod explaining that the thread was locked because it was a duplicate, which apparently is against the forum rules. Don't worry though, Sylus' time will come eventually.

Interesting, I wonder if Stylus got any notes in his mailbox for being such a flamer. I cannot imagine how he thought exposing all kinds of personal details would prove his point.

I have the games of deception box set, preordered and payed for through an iacon package and not once when buying it did I think of how unfair it was to Stylus and his mom.

On topic though, I still believe they should remain exclusive, I do not think Takara should step on the toes of Hasbro and Funpub to develop their own seeker variants.

Exclusive content to those who are willing to pay more is not limited to transformers. Cars, books, dvds, videogames, homes... just about every product under the sun has a more expensive variant where people pay a premium due to the exclusivity of said item. If you make that item commonplace after marketing it as rare, that is screwing the original owners of the item.

If everything was special, than nothing would be.

Another one of these? This is the third one today. People seem to forget that the whole Classics line was supposed to be a Hasbro exclusive. Takara already had a line like Classics in Robot Masters. Both Hasbro and Takara have their own exclusive lines. You won't see Robot Heroes in Japan and you won't see Hybrid Style in the US.

Apparently Takara really liked the Classics line and wanted to bring it over to the Asian market. The reason why all the Henkei figures are different from their Classics versions is not because they're better. I personally think most of the Henkei color schemes are inferior to the Classics. It's because those color schemes are exclusive to Hasbro. This applies to both the retail and BotCon figures.

I like to use GF Red Exillion and Cybertron Excellion as an example.
http://tfkenkon.com/g/?mode=view&album= ... 00&start=0
http://tfkenkon.com/g/?mode=view&album= ... 00&start=0
This GF Red Exillion started out as a limited edition figure. Hasbro liked this Hot Rod homage and desided to release it in mass retail. Were the people who were bought the limited edition Japanese exclusive pissed? Maybe, IDK. I know I would if I imported it. But the 2 are different enough that if you missed 1, the other is an excellent substitute. But they're so similar that having both doesn't seem worth while.

To use another example, this years BotCon Blurr. When I first heard of this figure, I disliked the idea because I already have Cybertron Blurr. And I could imagine how BotCon could take this mold, make it different enough to warrant a second(or third or fourth) purchase, and still have him look like Blurr. Then I saw the pictures and they pulled it off.

So in conclusion, will Takara recreate the BotCon Seekers, specificly Thundercracker? Probably. Will they be as good as the BotCon ones? No way!
God, I hate that chrome on them. Just looks so stupid on them. And worries me after MP Megatrons Cosmic Rust.

OK? Now no more of these kinds of threads.

Getting off the subject of Thundercracker completely. It's just as likely they may decide to do Sunstorm instead. Maybe even create another new Seeker like they did with him. Maybe using the Green one, or one of the lilac coloured Seekers.

Wow, I missed a lot of fighting today while I was working.

Since Botcon exclusives have not been re-released in either country before, I can't see why the Botcon seekers would be released now. Personally, I don't think it's ever going to happen.

Even if they just complete the Seeker trio with Henkei I'd be happy, the Cones weren't loved in Japan so I doubt we'll see them.

I'd love a Sunstorm or an original seeker, light turquoise or maybe lilac like the one's seen in the pilot.

I'm really not sure why this is such a contentious issue, the value of the botcon '07 set is that it is the botcon '07 set, the box, the 5 figures, the ghey little badge... the whole thing.

There's been a ton of TF toy's named Tundercracker but only one that was a Botcon exclusive, even if the same mold gets reused by Takara the figure won't been the same so what's the issue?

I think the blue on Botcon TC was too dark anyway, the cartoon blue was very light.

UltraPrimal wrote:The reason why all the Henkei figures are different from their Classics versions is not because they're better. It's because those color schemes are exclusive to Hasbro. This applies to both the retail and BotCon figures.

Interesting. What about the upcoming Rodimus figure? I don't know how Takara can make it more G1 accurate than it already is without infringing on Hasbro's colours. Just add some chrome bits and leave it at that?

And if what you say is true, how will this apply to Jetfire if he's released as a Henkei? I've been thinking about this for a while. If Takara is not allowed to use Hasbro's colours and they want him to be as G1 accurate as possible, I thought they might try to redeco him to look like his original VF-1S Valkyrie fighter, similar to Jin Saotome's custom. It would sell well to fans who find the Macross colours more appealing than Skyfire's colours.

Glitcher wrote:
...how will this apply to Jetfire if he's released as a Henkei? I've been thinking about this for a while. If Takara is not allowed to use Hasbro's colours and they want him to be as G1 accurate as possible, I thought they might try to redeco him to look like his original VF-1S Valkyrie fighter...

They should do him white with black & yellow trim, a la Roy Fokker's "Skull Leader".

Someone digibash that

UltraPrimal wrote:Another one of these? This is the third one today. People seem to forget that the whole Classics line was supposed to be a Hasbro exclusive. Takara already had a line like Classics in Robot Masters. Both Hasbro and Takara have their own exclusive lines. You won't see Robot Heroes in Japan and you won't see Hybrid Style in the US.

Apparently Takara really liked the Classics line and wanted to bring it over to the Asian market. The reason why all the Henkei figures are different from their Classics versions is not because they're better. I personally think most of the Henkei color schemes are inferior to the Classics. It's because those color schemes are exclusive to Hasbro. This applies to both the retail and BotCon figures.

I like to use GF Red Exillion and Cybertron Excellion as an example.
http://tfkenkon.com/g/?mode=view&album= ... 00&start=0
http://tfkenkon.com/g/?mode=view&album= ... 00&start=0
This GF Red Exillion started out as a limited edition figure. Hasbro liked this Hot Rod homage and desided to release it in mass retail. Were the people who were bought the limited edition Japanese exclusive pissed? Maybe, IDK. I know I would if I imported it. But the 2 are different enough that if you missed 1, the other is an excellent substitute. But they're so similar that having both doesn't seem worth while.

To use another example, this years BotCon Blurr. When I first heard of this figure, I disliked the idea because I already have Cybertron Blurr. And I could imagine how BotCon could take this mold, make it different enough to warrant a second(or third or fourth) purchase, and still have him look like Blurr. Then I saw the pictures and they pulled it off.

So in conclusion, will Takara recreate the BotCon Seekers, specificly Thundercracker? Probably. Will they be as good as the BotCon ones? No way!
God, I hate that chrome on them. Just looks so stupid on them. And worries me after MP Megatrons Cosmic Rust.

OK? Now no more of these kinds of threads.

Well first off all let me say this to start. So far, the Henkei paintjobs are better, and much more G1 accurate than Hasbro's. Hasbro was going for the updated G1 look. example Starcream. Having owned the Classics version, for sure it is nice, but Henkei has a better G1 accurate paint scheme, and looks like Screamer from G1 all the way, even both sides of the wings have a decepticon symbol on them.

And speaking of the Borcon seekers, let's be fiar, one is a repint of Skywarp, the other two repainted remolds of Ramjet. Having seen them up close, they are nice, only becuase they wern't released at retail. I have seen better ones form 2005, and 2006 Botcon.

The problem is that those who have feel like I should pay the upwards price for a $10 toy. Which is fine, I have done it before becuase I have paid through the nose for past Botcon and OFTCC items, so money is not the issue, it's want, and the fact that the value of the high price toy could fall if Takara decides to release the other three or even, let's say Thundercraker, which I know will get released, that's where the anger really comes from.

People have stated who own the set to sort of put down those that don't own, and those that can't afford it. Now that's not fair to shove down anyone's nose, becuase what goes around comes around. this is the consensus of the owners of the 2007 Botcon set. Well Hasbro said "the can't do this and they can't do that, and there is a contract, and classics were a hasbro exclusive.....etc..", well Hasbro does not own Takara. They share an interest, but to a degree, but where in the contract was Takara...oh I want a copy of the Botcon contract, so I can fine comb it and see how much legal wrangling protects repaints, and even mold changes. I guess if you pay $250 or higher you are a legal analyst for Hasbro...right? Coz they said they can't do that. You think your money counts, not to a big corporation(s).

RobotMasters is the Japanese equivalent to the Universe line, never was their version of Classics, they just came up with a small articulated G1 prime and the seekers, every one else was from Beast Wars and Machine wars with different paint jobs.

trust me, some how some way one of the three botcon seekers will make it to retail...my money's on Thundercracker.

Go Sylus!!

Now on to your moot point
"The reason why all the Henkei figures are different from their Classics versions is not because they're better. I personally think most of the Henkei color schemes are inferior to the Classics. It's because those color schemes are exclusive to Hasbro. This applies to both the retail and BotCon figures."

Umm...just where did you get that info from. I want the source for that. Becuase Henkei was probaly in the works during the release of the classics...or you know this for sure. One thing we all know about Takara is they love to be more accurate or faithful when it comes to paint jobs.

Lets go back to TF 2000 vs. R.I.D.. TF2000 toys were released first, mainly Black Convoy and Valdigus (combatracons) were exactly like the TF2000 anime. Scourge and Ruination come out a year later, what happens, Scourge gets a decepticon symbol, and low and behold it's not in the show, and Ruination also has decepticon symbols and off-colors...why, becuase that's what Hasbro does.

Then the joint release of Armada/Micron Densetsu...Hasbro has the jump, again, the paintjobs were no where as good as some of the Takara ones. I'm speaking as an owner, who likes to duplicate, for eye to eye comparison. The true reason Takara repinted the Classics for Henkei, was becuase Hasbro's mostly were off. A white and purple Megatron...with neon green eyes? Give me gray shell, red eyes and a chrome chest anyday...now that's megs through and through.

get your sources right...and show me this exclusive Hasbro classics contact, then I'll believe you.

It is my understanding that FunPub has secured the rights to those characters using those molds and any "likeness" which would keep Takara from producing those figures in Japan even if they have different paint applications.

FunPub has to much invested in Botcon and TFCC to release those rights to Takara.

JTKranix wrote:It is my understanding that FunPub has secured the rights to those characters using those molds and any "likeness" which would keep Takara from producing those figures in Japan even if they have different paint applications.

FunPub has to much invested in Botcon and TFCC to release those rights to Takara.

Now that sounds better, but if they owned the characters, then yeah, big trouble for Takara. All FunPub did was secure rights to repaint and remold toys for a convention, but that's not enough if Hasbro or Takara make or made an agreement of some sort.

If Funpub owned the characters Thundercracker, Dirge, and Thurst, then there, and I would say it be zero chance of any 'likeness' or repaint to produce any of the botcon seekers, but things have a way of changing, and the terms of the contract would have to be, again read though thoroughly to say Takara can't do that or else we'd have your asses on a platter that thing, then yeah they definetly can't.

To me, I'm hoping, becuase I can drop $1600 in Sams in a minute, and just to prove I make money to those who say I can't afford it, but I just can't justify paying $700 to $900 for any three $10 toys. Repaints or not. Days of Future past was the most I will ever spend on a TF, I could get Overlord, Victory Saber, or Grand Maximus for that price.

LIke I siad, we just have to wait and see..

bvzxa wrote:

JTKranix wrote:It is my understanding that FunPub has secured the rights to those characters using those molds and any "likeness" which would keep Takara from producing those figures in Japan even if they have different paint applications.

FunPub has to much invested in Botcon and TFCC to release those rights to Takara.

Now that sounds better, but if they owned the characters, then yeah, big trouble for Takara. All FunPub did was secure rights to repaint and remold toys for a convention, but that's not enough if Hasbro or Takara make or made an agreement of some sort.

If Funpub owned the characters Thundercracker, Dirge, and Thurst, then there, and I would say it be zero chance of any 'likeness' or repaint to produce any of the botcon seekers, but things have a way of changing, and the terms of the contract would have to be, again read though thoroughly to say Takara can't do that or else we'd have your asses on a platter that thing, then yeah they definetly can't.

To me, I'm hoping, becuase I can drop $1600 in Sams in a minute, and just to prove I make money to those who say I can't afford it, but I just can't justify paying $700 to $900 for any three $10 toys. Repaints or not. Days of Future past was the most I will ever spend on a TF, I could get Overlord, Victory Saber, or Grand Maximus for that price.

LIke I siad, we just have to wait and see..

Hey, I don't understand. How did you prove you can "drop $1600 in Sams in a minute"?

JTKranix wrote:

bvzxa wrote:

JTKranix wrote:It is my understanding that FunPub has secured the rights to those characters using those molds and any "likeness" which would keep Takara from producing those figures in Japan even if they have different paint applications.

FunPub has to much invested in Botcon and TFCC to release those rights to Takara.

Now that sounds better, but if they owned the characters, then yeah, big trouble for Takara. All FunPub did was secure rights to repaint and remold toys for a convention, but that's not enough if Hasbro or Takara make or made an agreement of some sort.

If Funpub owned the characters Thundercracker, Dirge, and Thurst, then there, and I would say it be zero chance of any 'likeness' or repaint to produce any of the botcon seekers, but things have a way of changing, and the terms of the contract would have to be, again read though thoroughly to say Takara can't do that or else we'd have your asses on a platter that thing, then yeah they definetly can't.

To me, I'm hoping, becuase I can drop $1600 in Sams in a minute, and just to prove I make money to those who say I can't afford it, but I just can't justify paying $700 to $900 for any three $10 toys. Repaints or not. Days of Future past was the most I will ever spend on a TF, I could get Overlord, Victory Saber, or Grand Maximus for that price.

LIke I siad, we just have to wait and see..

Hey, I don't understand. How did you prove you can "drop $1600 in Sams in a minute"?

I meant that figuratevly speaking, when I bought my flatscreen TV and XBOX360 for the kids.
in fact just disregard it....my bads on that one

As a collector who has the Botcon '07 seekers set, I don't think I have a problem with Takara if they do produce them--and whether it matters if I do have a problem HASBRO and TAKARA will not care anyway--

A.) I bought the set not for resale value, but to make my collection complete, and have a cool exclusive--the same reason I have bought the other repaint sets. If Takara releases their own versions I would probably get them too, especially if the details were significantly different enough. As was said, there is usually a difference, sometimes significant and sometimes not, between Takara and HASBRO pieces. Having a Takara piece instead of a HASBRO piece does not make it the American version, nor does it always make it the better quality version, and vice versa. The Botcon set will most likely still be just as desired for its popularity and small production run either way.

B.) Importing them is not cheap. So to say that someone will be getting them cheaper, well yeah they will if they have connections in Japan, or live there themselves, otherwise they'll be paying at least $20 per figure total. Yes, I know my Botcon set cost me $55 a figure. But I also received a 6th figure...So actually, $50. I did not have to import them, or ship them, I got a collector's box, many other good things to go with it.

C. For those worried about the resale value of their Botcon versions, the Takara versions would have a much larger production run, and thus, not likely to be equal in value to the Botcon seekers. Yes, the Botcon seekers would not be as high in demand anymore, but they are still exclusives, and will retain value because of it.

So far this conversation has been very civil, and hopefully, it stays that way.

tigertracks 24 wrote:SNIP!

Look at you and your fancy reasonable and responsible arguments!

I own the Botcon 07 set too and I must say those are some excellent points Tigertracks24.

After thinking about it for a while I would probably care less too about Takara releaseing the other seekers to go with Henkei Starscream. I paid my money for the non-attendee Botcon set and feel I got a cool set with some cool perks for my money. All I have ever cared about was being able to complete my Classics seekers so since I accomplished that then what Takara does makes no difference to me either.

If they do then that is awsome for those collectors who either couldn't afford the Botcon set or didn't want to pay that price for the set. As for the civility of this thread, thank god it is much tamer. I think as long as no one as, shall we say passionate as Sylus, gets on here and starts ranting and generally blasting people I think this thread will be ok

To be honest, everyone deserves a fair chance at owning classic renditions of the full 7 seekers. (botcon was half reasonable).


Good for Takara if they do make them all.

And shame on those that want the seekers to remain exclusive so that they can make big profit on them.

Counterpunch wrote:

tigertracks 24 wrote:SNIP!

Look at you and your fancy reasonable and responsible arguments!

Ultra Prime wrote:COMPLIMENTS, and INCREDIBLY well thought out response to my points...

Hooray! I made a decent point!

Seriously, the insane profit to be made on these is pretty much over isn't it? The extra sets have been sold...people have made their moneys, or spent the money they thought was reasonable to spend. Sure the value will decrease some, and those who paid $900 for the set will probably feel rather distressed if Takara releases them, but that is the thing about the collector market...things change, and you take risks when you buy/sell collectible items.

The availability of re-issues totally crushes the vintage collector's hopes of many rare items holding their value because so many are getting re-released. Market flooded, product no longer as desirable. Do we complain about that? Nope.

Tekka wrote:Getting off the subject of Thundercracker completely. It's just as likely they may decide to do Sunstorm instead. Maybe even create another new Seeker like they did with him. Maybe using the Green one, or one of the lilac coloured Seekers.

Now this is the only thing I've been able to reply to in these pointless re-do threads because it's a GREAT IDEA. No stepping on Botcon's toes, and we get one more seeker (albeit a somewhat non-mainstreamed one). That color scheme would rock hard on the Classics seeker mold. I don't see any new character coming out of this line (it's meant as a G1 re-do, after all), but Sunstorm would be a nice bone to throw...

Dealer wrote:And shame on those that want the seekers to remain exclusive so that they can make big profit on them.

No offense (and I know you're talking about people who are doing this), but I'm getting tired of this argument. Who says I'm holding onto my seekers because I want to turn a profit?? I just wanted all the seekers!!! Many collectors like me just wanted to complete a set and that's it. The only reason I'm against mass releasing them is that I'd have gotten screwed on the original price tag assigned to a limited release exclusive. I would have 157% supported a mass release of all of them to begin with, but the fact that they were released by Botcon makes other arguments meaningless to me. I'm glad I got a shot at them--it wasn't the one I would have liked (YES, I had to do some saving and scrounging for that set), but there it was, and I did it. I feel bad for those not collecting yet or with too little money, too. But I don't start a "Why I hate people who have lucky draw figures" thread every day (a bit of an exaggeration, I know)...no offense to anyone intended, of course.

It's nice to dream, but I think the seeker ship has sailed. And I'd be saying this with or without a 2007 Iacon Package in my collection. That's just the way things go sometimes.