The Energon Pub

G1 had that magic stuff to most of us. Optimus, Megatron, Soundwave,.. it was all very memorable and now it is the basis for what brings most of us here today.

I’m going to be brief in opening this discussion because I’d prefer it to be fleshed out in discussion.

I propose to you all, that starting from Armada, to Energon, and through Cybertron, we have witnessed a new “G1”. We in America got about three sets of overall releases from the beginning of G1 Season 1 through Season 3 (about 88’). The first set was the season 1 characters, the second set being the more complex and at times larger season 2 characters, then the creative odd-ball and subsequent ‘gimmick’ characters of season 3.

Don’t the recent year releases follow this pattern as well? Armada gave us iconic, limited possibility Transformers. Energon improved their design and gave us an overall increase in size, Cybertron is certainly the most gimmick and oddball set out of the group.

Also, consider this: With the number of releases in Armada, Energon, and Cybertron we are almost reaching the same number of produced G1 toys as back in classic G1.

We are starting to see prices (in a separate instance from Movie related hype) on certain characters increase drastically for A/E/C toys. This is an early sign that somewhere out there, no matter how disparaging us old timers would like to be towards these new wave toys, someone wants them.

I have a nice sized G1 collection. I work slowly and steadily at building it. But due to the difficulty of obtaining nice pieces, it does grow slowly. So, when I see large collections of G1 toys, held by collectors who have had the damn things for 20 years or so, I get a little jealous.

So, it makes me wonder…in 10, 15, or 20 years when kids grow up and rediscover their toys, are they going to have the same kind of love that we have for G1?

and more importantly, just how jealous are they going to be over my mint condition Armada Optimus Prime?

This is how I've felt about the entire Transformers phenomenon since I got back into the hobby when I picked up Armada Demolishor. For a lot of fans, that's where it began. For a lot more fans it's going to begin with the new movie. It's all about new beginnings. We grew up loving characters like Jazz. Today's younger fans feel the same way about Hot Shot. Soon it's going to be Bumblebee, Ironhide, and hey, even Jazz, all over again. It's the same but different.

Of course, it's the new G1. Transformers isn't the most developed of brands when it comes to characters, storyline, etc., and it gets recycled for new audiences every couple of years. With it being aimed at primarily young children, who ultimately grow up and grow tired of it, they have to reinvent it for the next generation. But it is never really any different. Once one gets over the dubbing constraints of the newer shows, one can see that Armada isn't that much different, let alone better, than G1.

But, for some, those who were children about five years ago, the newer shows were their first contact with TF. Since it's their first, then it will be their G1. If they stay interested in the hobby as they grow older, they may well look at your MISB Armada Prime and go weak at the knees.

And, as Brakethrough says, I feel the movie will kickstart another generation of children into TF collecting, and for them this film will be their G1.

Does that mean they'll vomit when they see the original G1 Prime and choose Bayformers over the originals?

I just like transforming robots. I think the rest of you are all nuts. (Just kidding) I don't think we can replace G1. G1 is what it is and there will never be another TF series more important to the fans that have been collecting for 20+ years. A lot of us have "gotten back in" to collecting, me included, and see the 3 new series (correct my grammar there, guys) as a great twist. I started back in when I saw the Japanese version of RID Ops and Ultra Magnus in a grocery store in Chicago. So for me, that's where it started again. I wouldn't replace G1 with RID, though.

I'm one of those Transformers collectors you will problably be jealous of...I'm 43 yrs. old and have been collecting since transformers first first out in 1984. And yes I have a big part of my G1 figures that are over 23 yrs. old and in mint codition! I have had to replace a few of them with new reissues due to my son breaking them, which nearly killed me!

I have been alittle disappointed with all the lastest transformers lines and toys, except for Beast Wars. Beast Wars and G1 Series are my two most favorites.

I miss toys not being made from metal and having rubber tires and I really miss being able to put the stickers on them like G1. That was like "bonding" with your toys! I plan to only buy the deluxe versions of the movie line, I don't want the cheap plastic crap!

I think future generations will love and appreciate the G1 line long after we are gone,they are classics and are the very best! My 11 yr. old son is a hugh transformers fan and he loves G1 line over all other lines.

Exulted Unicron wrote:Does that mean they'll vomit when they see the original G1 Prime and choose Bayformers over the originals?

Put simply, yes. Because as far as their first impressions of the character (live action, highly rendered, big screen) and playability of the toy, the new Optimus Prime will be superior. They may look at G1 Prime in an Antiques Roadshow sort of way, or as a relic of Japan or something, but by and large all previous Optimii will pale next to the current incarnation.

Just gotta stomach it and move on.

Brakethrough wrote:

Exulted Unicron wrote:Does that mean they'll vomit when they see the original G1 Prime and choose Bayformers over the originals?

Put simply, yes. Because as far as their first impressions of the character (live action, highly rendered, big screen) and playability of the toy, the new Optimus Prime will be superior. They may look at G1 Prime in an Antiques Roadshow sort of way, or as a relic of Japan or something, but by and large all previous Optimii will pale next to the current incarnation.

Just gotta stomach it and move on.

I won't disagree with those new to TFs. I think the new lines are superior. They have posability and articulation and the engineering that goes into makeing them is pretty incredible. Classics OPs is a good representation of that. The G1 Toys were bricks.

transform1245 wrote:I'm one of those Transformers collectors you will problably be jealous of...I'm 43 yrs. old and have been collecting since transformers first first out in 1984. And yes I have a big part of my G1 figures that are over 23 yrs. old and in mint codition! I have had to replace a few of them with new reissues due to my son breaking them, which nearly killed me!

I have been alittle disappointed with all the lastest transformers lines and toys, except for Beast Wars. Beast Wars and G1 Series are my two most favorites.

I miss toys not being made from metal and having rubber tires and I really miss being able to put the stickers on them like G1. That was like "bonding" with your toys! I plan to only buy the deluxe versions of the movie line, I don't want the cheap plastic crap!



I think future generations will love and appreciate the G1 line long after we are gone,they are classics and are the very best! My 11 yr. old son is a hugh transformers fan and he loves G1 line over all other lines.

I agree, my son loves G-1, but he prefers the current cartoons because of the newer animation style, plus his friends like that series too..(marketing the toys on Commercials and what hot this year in school drives the series)..but lets take the point of view that kids first experience to TF will be the current series, but whose to say that they wouldn't take an interst in a previous series.. My son and his friedns go absolutely nutso over my MP Optimus Prime.. they want to see the cartoons, so i had them all watch the G-1 trilogy from the 1st 3 Episodes, and they loved it..though older animation, their attention lasted for those 3 episodes, and that was amazing..

Armada, energon, and Cybertron is the new G-1, there is nothing wrong with rehashing for new generations.. my only arguement and point is why not go a different direction once and awhile..?? I like Beast wars Neo, they had some really great action figures... those were nice stories too..

transform1245 wrote:I think future generations will love and appreciate the G1 line long after we are gone,they are classics and are the very best! My 11 yr. old son is a hugh transformers fan and he loves G1 line over all other lines.

Do you think he would prefer the G1 line if you didn't have any, though?

I mean, generally speaking, in another twenty years, when today's youth has grown into adult collectors, will they prefer G1 over Armada, etc.? I doubt they will, however if they are serious collectors then I'm sure they'll recognise the antique value of G1 toys, simply because their older and are what started it all off.

Brakethrough wrote:

Exulted Unicron wrote:Does that mean they'll vomit when they see the original G1 Prime and choose Bayformers over the originals?

Put simply, yes. Because as far as their first impressions of the character (live action, highly rendered, big screen) and playability of the toy, the new Optimus Prime will be superior. They may look at G1 Prime in an Antiques Roadshow sort of way, or as a relic of Japan or something, but by and large all previous Optimii will pale next to the current incarnation.

Just gotta stomach it and move on.

I think I disagree with this statement.

G1 has aged incredibly well. The toys still look awesome when put next to the new stuff. If a person is only familiar with the all-plastic TFs of today and is then handed Predaking, G1 Megatron, or Jetfire, they are going to be astounded at the 'feel' of the toy.

I don't favor die-cast, but I do think that there is an impressive element that it lends in weight to a toy.

Further, have you ever really watched a kid play with Transformers. They do not take advantage of the articulation. Kids either swing, push, or otherwise 'weild' the toy like a doll. That or they transform it and crash it into stuff. In those ways, the G1 toys hold up just as well.

As for playability, G1 is still a competitor. Prime's trailer was packed with fun, moreso than Cybertron Prime's... Metroplex, the combiners, the 'masters', it was all there.

I'm not arguing that G1 is tops, just that it will continue to be a worthy line and that if reintroduced properly with the marketing today's lines have, it would do well.

I agree with most of that, except do the G1 toys really fare well when crashed into things? I would've thought that they would chip or dent. I've never tried it, though.

I don't think they'll be remembered as fondly as G1. Primary reasons is the attitudes of kids today, they grow up too fast and don't have the fantasy that we used to have as a kid (or because we didn't have computers).

I also think the problem is is that the toys change so quickly, kids don't have the opportunity to say "Oh, I can't wait for Christmas to get that toy" when it is still June. I remember the same TFs being on the shelves for over a year. I guess it is playing to the attention span of kids now a days, two months and it's gone and the series only last a year.

GetterDragun wrote:I don't think they'll be remembered as fondly as G1. Primary reasons is the attitudes of kids today, they grow up too fast and don't have the fantasy that we used to have as a kid (or because we didn't have computers).

I also think the problem is is that the toys change so quickly, kids don't have the opportunity to say "Oh, I can't wait for Christmas to get that toy" when it is still June. I remember the same TFs being on the shelves for over a year. I guess it is playing to the attention span of kids now a days, two months and it's gone and the series only last a year.

It's something that as adults, and possibly parents, we could have the power to change. One of the biggest lessons I ever learned as a child was patience, and I hope I can pass that on in some way.

My son prefers to watch the G1 Series over any of the others. He is starting to warm to Beast Wars Series. His two most favorite transformers right now is the MP Optimus and MP Megatron. The classic line is pretty good, but I sure wish they would go back to the days where you could put the stickers on them yourselves!

transform1245 wrote:His two most favorite transformers right now is the MP Optimus and MP Megatron.

Your son has taste!

GetterDragun wrote:I don't think they'll be remembered as fondly as G1. Primary reasons is the attitudes of kids today, they grow up too fast and don't have the fantasy that we used to have as a kid (or because we didn't have computers).

I also think the problem is is that the toys change so quickly, kids don't have the opportunity to say "Oh, I can't wait for Christmas to get that toy" when it is still June. I remember the same TFs being on the shelves for over a year. I guess it is playing to the attention span of kids now a days, two months and it's gone and the series only last a year.

Someone's getting old... "Back in my day, Kids had respect for...Both ways up the hill..." Kidding, kidding...

Leonardo wrote:I agree with most of that, except do the G1 toys really fare well when crashed into things? I would've thought that they would chip or dent. I've never tried it, though.

Most G1 stuff wasn't diecast. No one really points that out anymore...

My thoughts on the matter is basically I see a repeat of what happened with the new Star Wars movies. Kids either really liked them and then got into the old movies or based on Episode I found it assinine and decried the entire franchise as stupid. It's the age gap: for so many of us G1 is canon, whereas a 12 year old watching Cybertron for the first time really has very little frame of reference as to G1. A lot of kids that hated SW episode 1 have no clue who Han Solo is, and Darth Vader was essentially a person who didn't exist to them in the context of the movies. In other words I guess, since they may have never been exposed to G1 toys or cartoons or personas, then all they would have for TF reference would be whatever show they're watching now. Nostalgia plays a huge part I believe, and for many of us that's why there is such an insurmountable G1 hangup and resistance to most newer things. At first I hated the new movie designs because they bear little to no resembalance to the actual characters, but they grew on me. At the same time, beloved Megatron has never borne resembalance to his G1 version and yet people still love Megatron, becuase he is Megatron. Kids nowadays would know Megatron for essentially the same reasons as G1 people do, but the kids wouldn't know that he used to transform into a handgun.
Yes, I think that the Unicron trilogy, although I didn't care for it, will be G1 to this generation. And yes, in ways newer figures are better than the G1s. I think our perspectives as 'adults' or collectors or old school fans or whatever cloud our visions of newer fans and their perspectives. Like why buy baseball cards from 2007 when a 1918 Gaylord Perry is worth like a million dollars? I don't buy baseball cards because I hate baseball.

Counterpunch wrote:

Leonardo wrote:I agree with most of that, except do the G1 toys really fare well when crashed into things? I would've thought that they would chip or dent. I've never tried it, though.

Most G1 stuff wasn't diecast. No one really points that out anymore...

I thought you were still talking about the die cast ones, though. Ah, it all just blurs into one for me.

Dagon wrote:Like why buy baseball cards from 2007 when a 1918 Gaylord Perry is worth like a million dollars? I don't buy baseball cards because I hate baseball.

This is either my favorite thing that has ever been said, or my least favorite.

I'm still considering...

Dagon wrote:My thoughts on the matter is basically I see a repeat of what happened with the new Star Wars movies. Kids either really liked them and then got into the old movies or based on Episode I found it assinine and decried the entire franchise as stupid. It's the age gap: for so many of us G1 is canon, whereas a 12 year old watching Cybertron for the first time really has very little frame of reference as to G1. A lot of kids that hated SW episode 1 have no clue who Han Solo is, and Darth Vader was essentially a person who didn't exist to them in the context of the movies. In other words I guess, since they may have never been exposed to G1 toys or cartoons or personas, then all they would have for TF reference would be whatever show they're watching now. Nostalgia plays a huge part I believe, and for many of us that's why there is such an insurmountable G1 hangup and resistance to most newer things. At first I hated the new movie designs because they bear little to no resembalance to the actual characters, but they grew on me. At the same time, beloved Megatron has never borne resembalance to his G1 version and yet people still love Megatron, becuase he is Megatron. Kids nowadays would know Megatron for essentially the same reasons as G1 people do, but the kids wouldn't know that he used to transform into a handgun.
Yes, I think that the Unicron trilogy, although I didn't care for it, will be G1 to this generation. And yes, in ways newer figures are better than the G1s. I think our perspectives as 'adults' or collectors or old school fans or whatever cloud our visions of newer fans and their perspectives. Like why buy baseball cards from 2007 when a 1918 Gaylord Perry is worth like a million dollars? I don't buy baseball cards because I hate baseball.

I agree nostalgia plays a big part, but there is also the fact that the Orginial series still has a hold on kids even today, like with my son and his friends, they simply ate up the Transformers show that I played for them on DVD, and they all asked where I got my MP Prime, they love the design.. its sound, proven and doesn't have swiss cheese prongs all over him like a Bionicle toy..he actually looks like a real truck, and i think the realism is what kids see in G-1 that makes them prefer it to the far fetched vehicles and space jets..

I think that will also play a factor in the sales of the movie toys, is the realism of the actual cars and trucks..

skywarp-2 wrote:I agree nostalgia plays a big part, but there is also the fact that the Orginial series still has a hold on kids even today, like with my son and his friends, they simply ate up the Transformers show that I played for them on DVD, and they all asked where I got my MP Prime, they love the design.. its sound, proven and doesn't have swiss cheese prongs all over him like a Bionicle toy..he actually looks like a real truck, and i think the realism is what kids see in G-1 that makes them prefer it to the far fetched vehicles and space jets..

I think that will also play a factor in the sales of the movie toys, is the realism of the actual cars and trucks..

So true, it was all about realism with me and not about futuristic cars. That's why Season 3 is my least favorite.

As for the Mini-Con Trilogy, it probably tracked down some newcomers, but still, when I think about it and look at the toys, it doesn't quite attach me. I do believe that TransFormers The Movie will bring an uprising because of live action and devestation

The question is, would they still feel the same about G1 if they had discovered it themselves, rather than having enthusiasts show it to them?

I have no idea, as I don't even know any Transfans in real life, but hey.

Honestly, I don't see Armada as a G1-esque line, even though it had its share of quirky characters that were G1-esque. G1 Transformers were somehow more iconic because they all had a certain 2-dimensional nature about them: Bumblebee was always small and brave; Powerglide was always a loudmouth showoff; Cliffjumper was always a hothead; Jazz was always smooth. Those characteristics came through on the cartoon as well, as cheesy as it may have been at times. Everything back during G1--the toys, cartoon, tech specs--all worked together to make characters you could get into and (in some ways) care about. Prime, Megatron, and Starscream seem to be some of the only characters that haven't really changed their spots...

Ever since RID, though, I think the TF shows and the packaging choices have been what's limited these lines from becoming truly iconic. All the personalities seem so....forced. O.k., I get the Optimus Prime is in charge--since when do all his Autobots have to salute and say, "Yes, Sir!" every time an order is given? Since when do we need to see pratfalls in a TF cartoon (RID Gaskunk, Slapper, and Nightscream)? Since when do TFs hail from the redneck backland of Kentucky (Cybertron Scattershot)? The scripting on these new shows may reflect cultural trends, but in my opinion, they just plain suck. They're actually laughable on most days, fully of the same gimmicks ("Let's combine into super mode...again!") over and over.

As far as packaging, tech specs changed from actual SPECS to a small blurb on the back of the package to a picture card to a picture card with numbers...only now do they finally get back to really fleshing out a character, and even then they're so infuriating to save because they're spread out over half of the package...it seems that building a character isn't as important as building an icon anymore.

Anyway, that's why I can see where this thread is coming from, but I don't really see this as the new G1 era. Maybe it will be to kids growing up now, but any true TF fan, no matter where they started collecting, should want to research the roots of this great hobby and find out what "G1" really means.

My 2.879 cents.

Neat topic.

I'd say from the toyline perspective, you can easily draw a correlation b/t today's figs and our beloved G1. When the kids of today become the picky online TF's buyers of tomorrow, I'm sure that there will be a lot of A/E/C figures on their 'top 10' wishlists.

From the storyline perspective, I'd say G1 will still appeal long term more than the current crop of animated TF shows, and that opinion is based on writing and tone. G1 had good writing, dealt with more mature themes, was willing to foster character development, and overall, was handled seriously. As a show, it stood out from the crowd. The A/E/C stuff? I can only say, from my experience, I can't watch it. It looks and sounds like any other bad anime, just with TF's instead of some other Japanese gimmick. I guess the kids like it, but it doesn't stand out from the crowd, and will eventually disappear into the slag heap as being just like everything else. It's the difference between setting the standard (G1, and to some degree, BW) and following the formulaic trend for success (robots, anime, crazy action lines, whiny kid protaganists).

The movie will create a new set of fans and collectors, and I imagine that as long as the movie is handled in a more or less serious manner, then these new fans will naturally gravitate towards the better handled G1 & BW series, and avoid the A/E/C stuff, except for the occassional awesome figure.