The Energon Pub

Is Refelector consider a combiner group?

he is and he isn;t. He's a combiner because his 3 robots come together as one, but he isn't classed as a gestalt group

I don't know, but MAN I want that thing! Maybe I'll have to settle fo the KO?

I don't consider him a combiner.

I consider him a combiner, but not a gestalt Like Devastator or Menasor.


3 robots that combine to form a camera, not a larger robot. And in and by themselves the robots don't have alt modes. So its a weird one. but its still a combiner.

Overcracker wrote:I consider him a combiner, but not a gestalt Like Devastator or Menasor.


3 robots that combine to form a camera, not a larger robot. And in and by themselves the robots don't have alt modes. So its a weird one. but its still a combiner.

A combiner is the real word, gestalt is a fan term. A combiner is a combiner because the combined form is a different character. All the individual constructicons form Devestator, giving 7 unique personalities. Reflector team just hides together as a camera. Equivalently if you say Reflector is a combiner, then every Energon deluxe autobot figure is a combiner whne they are really just standing on the shoulders of another robot.

Not Necessarily.

the Skyboom Shield is a combiner, but its not a different character, its an object. So is the Star Saber. Or the Requiem Blaster. Heck even Armada Megs and Tidal Wave are combiners

To Combine, is to merge, to become one, join for a common purpose or in a common action.

It doesn't necessarily refer to a person or personality. It could be an object. Gestalt is the fan term, applied to those combiners that actually form a different character. but everything that merges together is a combiner.

Yes even energon autobots are combiners. lame, combiners but combiners none the less.

However the fan term Gestalt is what differentiates them. =

I thought Gestalt was Japanese for combiner. So Gestalt is made up word?

DJDrew&ScoobyDoo wrote:I thought Gestalt was Japanese for combiner. So Gestalt is made up word?

German, and a fan-applied term, but an actual word.

Merriam-Webster wrote:Main Entry: ge·stalt
Pronunciation: g&-'stält, -'shtält, -'stolt, -'shtolt
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural ge·stalts also ge·stalt·en /-'stäl-t&n, -'shtäl-, -'stol-, -'shtol-/
Etymology: German, literally, shape, form
: a structure, configuration, or pattern of physical, biological, or psychological phenomena so integrated as to constitute a functional unit with properties not derivable by summation of its parts

I wish they would of released him in stores back in the day

I don't have him

Reflector is NOT a Combiner in the standard applied definition of Transformers fans. They're semi-conjoined triplets. Is Soundwave a Combiner? Or Trypticon? He has that little purple guy on his chest. Optimus has Roller and the trailer, do they count? Reflector has no individual personalities but are one mind spread out. One of them even got destroyed ina spacebridge test. Do they combine? Yes. Are they a Combiner? No.

Wheeljack35 wrote:I wish they would of released him in stores back in the day

I don't have him

I think Hasbro should still release mail-in or online exclusive characters, especially for figures they might be afraid are going to be shelf warmers. Do a lower production run and then call it exclusive. Sure everyone will bitch about it but what Transformer fan is not going to buy an exclusive, plus there won't be dozens sitting on the shelves at stores.

I wonder just how well Reflector would have done in stores. It was cool that he was occasionally on the show and he's an interesting figure but was he really a high demand character? Would there have been a huge demand for him or is the novelty of the mail-in exclusive and the rarity of the character what makes us want him? The best part about him is that he was an affordable exclusive.

I still even have the order form that came with some of my figures somewhere. I'll have to dig it up and scan it in sometime.

You could give Spyshot a repaint and call him Reflector

I had it as a kid. I was like 7 and some high school cock stole it outta my backpack and I didn't know it. YEAH....A HIGH SCHOOLER! ARGHHHHH!

zodconvoy wrote:Reflector is NOT a Combiner in the standard applied definition of Transformers fans. They're semi-conjoined triplets. Is Soundwave a Combiner? Or Trypticon? He has that little purple guy on his chest. Optimus has Roller and the trailer, do they count? Reflector has no individual personalities but are one mind spread out. One of them even got destroyed ina spacebridge test. Do they combine? Yes. Are they a Combiner? No.

If they combine then by definition they are a Combiner. however they would not be a Fan labeled Gestalt team, as they don't actually form a new personality.

I Learnded something.

If it's a German word, how did it get applied to Transformers? Anyone know the history?

Gestalt is used in the English language too, it just has a German origin.

Technically, Reflector is a combiner in the sense that it combines to form something.

It is not on the same level as Devastator, Predaking, etc...

I consider Reflector more of a "team" than a gestalt.

I agree with Overcracker. Reflector combines, but not as a gestalt team. He is more like the Micromaster combiners from G1 season 7 (which can actually combine any two to make vehicles, not just the recommended ones). The Micromaster combiners and Reflector have separate robots that make one alt mode.

Personally, I have the two non-lens Reflector robots (Spectro and Spy Glass). They were second hand and are beat-up with no weapons. I use them as backup troops, and they would probably be shock troops even if I had all of them in good condition. The lack of individual alt modes makes them robot soldiers, in my opinion, just with the special ability to do visual recon. I would place them as slightly stronger than mini-bots when in good condition. As worn as mine are, they can barely hit Gears.

Btw, as zodconvoy mentions, Reflector is described as being one robot (the lens one) with replaceable clones in the cartoon. They required three to form a camera, but allowed a few disposable troops for the understaffed season 1 Decepticons. The toy has three distinctly different robots, so it suggests different characters that can combine to make one powerful spy tool. Whether the characters are underrated or not depends on your view.

well Gestalt from my understanding is a German word
and it means something like "human like form"

so if they combine into a humanoid form then they are
Gestalt.

if 5 robots combined to form a Dragon then technically
this is not Gestalt.

combine to form a camera is also not Gestalt.

the fan term of Gestalt seems to be applied to
several TF that combine to form a big something.

Reflector doesn't seem to fit this def. either...

Just to throw this in there, but gestalt doesn't have to mean 'a figure' or 'human-like'. It can mean just 'form', 'shape' or 'configuration'. If one takes the latter definition[s] then Reflector could be considered a Gestalt. It just depends on what the Transformers community has taken the word to mean. That is a question I'm not really sure of the answer to.

Leonardo wrote:Just to throw this in there, but gestalt doesn't have to mean 'a figure' or 'human-like'. It can mean just 'form', 'shape' or 'configuration'. If one takes the latter definition[s] then Reflector could be considered a Gestalt. It just depends on what the Transformers community has taken the word to mean. That is a question I'm not really sure of the answer to.

In the TF community, I believe the term Gestalt refers to combiners who have their own distinct persnalities and are formed by multiple TFs, each of whom has their own personailty.

In the case of Reflector, this would be a big no. Not only does the camera mode have no personality, the 3 bots, are essentially one unit, speaking in unison and never seen apart.

Bonger wrote:

Leonardo wrote:Just to throw this in there, but gestalt doesn't have to mean 'a figure' or 'human-like'. It can mean just 'form', 'shape' or 'configuration'. If one takes the latter definition[s] then Reflector could be considered a Gestalt. It just depends on what the Transformers community has taken the word to mean. That is a question I'm not really sure of the answer to.

In the TF community, I believe the term Gestalt refers to combiners who have their own distinct persnalities and are formed by multiple TFs, each of whom has their own personailty.

In the case of Reflector, this would be a big no. Not only does the camera mode have no personality, the 3 bots, are essentially one unit, speaking in unison and never seen apart.

Yes, I had assumed that's what Gestalt meant to TF fans, but was looking for confirmation!

While I don't want to argue the case for Reflector being a Gestalt, I have to ask: in the toys, the three robots are very different in appearance and even have different names. Is it not possible that they were intended to be three distinct robots with three distinct personalities, and that the cartoon (possibly the comics, too, don't know if he appeared at all) just 'dumbed him down'? The tech spec bio for Reflector doesn't suggest that Viewfinder is the sentient one and that the other two are clones. There's nothing to contradict the notion that they could be seen apart, either.

Also, is Reflector the only TF where the robots combine to form the alt.mode, rather than the robot mode?

Well, I think the discrepency with Reflecter is that the original diaclone camera had three bots and Hasbro just stuck with the design. In the cartoon, they were all 3 illustrated the same way. Almost like clones, and went by the name Reflector.

However, Wikipedia does indentify them as a Gestalt. I personally do not agree.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reflector_ ... formers%29

But maybe, even once they had acquired the toy from the Diaclone line and had marketed it as Reflector, Hasbro themselves considered the three robots to be individuals.

I'm thinking about it from this angle: if I was a child in 1984-5, and I had completed the mail order for Reflector and received him through the post, and if I didn't watch the cartoon and only used the tech specs as my character templates, I would have no reason to believe that Spectro and Spyglass were mindless clones. I'd treat them all as individual robots. Since they never featured in the comics (according to that Wikipedia article) I wouldn't have a comic slant to go on, either, and the cartoon was known for straying from various aspects of the toys.

I like the notion of using them to become the Sweeps instead of the Insecticons, though!

Its all really a matter iof personal opinion too. Some people may not think the mictomaster combiners are gestalts, but technucally they are.

I think of them as a gestalt