The Energon Pub

When I was a kid, I loved bringing Transformers to my adult relatives and quickly changing them into bots and back in a few seconds. It was quick enough to have them watch the entire time and they were always impressed (or pretended to be).

When my seven year old transforms some of his Classic figures, it takes 5 to 10 minutes. Sometimes he needs some help. Gone are the days where you could make a few flips and be proud of the quick transformation. With classics and movie toys, kids miss out on that fun and quick experience. It is no wonder Hasbro feels it necessary to add lights and sound gimmicks to keep kids interested.

In many ways, I miss easy transformations. I expect complexity with Masterpiece figures, but for the general child market I think Hasbro is missing something that was a core experience in the 80's. Many 80's figures were excellent in both modes despite the easy transformation. Prime, Soundwave, Jetfire and Blaster immediately come to mind.

I love the Classics line for looks and poseability. They make great display pieces. Does anyone else feel that part of the "kid fun" is lost on these latest runs of Transformers?

I agree that the mainstream lines that interest us collectors aren't much for the younger kids, however there was the Animated line, which I think was far simpler than Classics has been. There's also the legends figures, Fast Action Battlers and RPMs which are fairy straight forward for the younger minds. I saw a kid on a bus with a legends Prime and a Deluxe Rampage fighting it out. Legends Prime won. It must be nice not to have to worry about scale.

So I think that as a kid gets older, s/he'll enjoy he larger, more complicated figs a little more.

Though I never got to officially enter the Sixshot transformation contets at TRU, I won as a spectator becaus eI was always pretty good at transforming my toys without instructions.

Most of the Classics try to emulate their G1 counterparts in transformation. I guess it comes down to the prson, and how well they handle thier TF's. Some kids would break every single G1 toy as soon as it came out the package. some of my friends toys had to be transformed by me. Some could just look at it, and the toy would unfold to robot flawlessly. Luck of the draw

When I was a kid I wanted my toys to look like the TV show. The TMNT, for example, confused me because they didn't look like the show. Didn't have enough TFs, but I was delighted when PM Prime came out because it was, heads and tails, more accurate to what I was watching. So, just keeping in mine what I valued as a kid, I'd say Classics wins out. Not all of them, mind (naturally not all of them were made to resemble the cartoon totally), but I'd have appreaciated Henkei Astrotrain or Bumblebee much more than their G1 counterparts.

Age is certainly a factor here. When G1 Astrotrain came out I was very young and it really confused me. hah hah hah.

Classics? How about Movie toys?

I like Movie toys, but I would not buy them for a 5 year old. Actually the complexity of the Movie line worries me. I really do not think little kids can transform Leader Prime. I'm not sure they can transform Bumblebee or Sideswipe for that matter. And the parents? forget about it.

Maybe I'm just old, but I'd really like to see the market or focus-group research that shows kids converting these toys.

I agree with your general point, Counterpunch. I gave my 8-year-old nephew the Voyager OP and Deluxe BB from the 07 Movie, and he loves them but he won't transform them. He had me transform them into robot form for him, and now he just leaves them like that.

But I would also point out that the FABs are probably great for kids, and the Legends are mostly simple enough for a kid.

Counterpunch wrote:Classics? How about Movie toys?

I like Movie toys, but I would not buy them for a 5 year old. Actually the complexity of the Movie line worries me. I really do not think little kids can transform Leader Prime. I'm not sure they can transform Bumblebee or Sideswipe for that matter. And the parents? forget about it.

Maybe I'm just old, but I'd really like to see the market or focus-group research that shows kids converting these toys.

Very good point.

It's interesting that the movie is really too dark and the language too strong for kids, and the toys are really too advanced in many aspects. Perhaps Hasbro's not quite sure how to market the movie and toys for fear of losing audience.

Back to the main topic, kids are so advanced these days and the window is so finite for keep kid's attention with hyper-real video games, 200 channels on TV, etc., that toy makers feel compelled to make toys more and more advanced with all the added lights, sounds, etc. However, I do feel that many of the Classics/Universe figures weren't too advanced for the average kid.

As a kid I was more interested in the more complex transformations so figures like Megatron were more fun than Twin Twist. Now, although I love the complexity of figures like ROTF leader OP sometimes I can't be bothered and want to transform something a bit simpler, but never as simple as G1 ! Most of the movie toys are way too complex for kids but I don't really care about what appeals to them - as long as they make things that I like, that's all I care about!

I can say with certainty that I would have never gotten back into TFs at my age if it weren't for the added complexity. In fact, I may have never bored of them when I hit my teens way back when had they been this complex from the start... I agree they're "too much" for most 5 year olds, but I would think it makes it more interesting for 8-12 year olds, but I could just be biased.

I think it's the age. G1 Transformers came out when I was 12. At that age, you can read instructions to figure out how to transform your toy. I think the original G1 was not complex because those toys were made of metal. Engineering was different too. I think the molds form other lines that TF borrowed form were more complex.

I remember the only toy that was a little hard was G1 Megatron. All the cars had pull the legs down, turn the waist around, unfold the arms, and/or flip out head. Noe of the current classics follow this way of changing. In fact RID at times was difficult when playing with Wildride or Mach Alert. Armada wnet back to a more G1 type of Toy, but energon and Cybertron to me seemed to catch the essence of both the complex transform, and yet maintain a simplictic throwback to g1 at the same time. Look at Inferno.

Someone mentioned there dislike for Twin Twist. Sure he was probably the precursor for activators, but he had a lot of spunk. Served as my leader until I got G1 Prime.

I think your general point is a good one.

My nephew, who is 8, loves transformers but doesn't transform most of them unless I'm around. Many are still too tough for him, and his mom just gets frustrated and says "Wait for your uncle."

While I like the complex transforms now, I do miss the days of G1 where the transforms, while simple, were satisfying. And I do wonder how many kids (remember they are the target audience for these) are turned off by the toys (especially the movie line) after playing with some.

I much prefer, and always will, the G1 toys any day of the week. Sure they are simple, but when I was a kid actually playing with my Transformers, I'd have 10 transformers, transformed and ready for action in a minute, or two. No thought of pieces flying off, or completely breaking. They were just good, simple, fun, toys to play with.

The movie line, which I do like for vastly different reasons, to be honest I can't see how they are fun to any kid. I feel like if I want to transform any of mine, I need to plan the event a day in advanced and make sure I'm fully concentrating on the transformation, so not to break the fragile plastic. Even when I start the transformation, I always worry what will pop off this time if I look at it wrong. What if panels don't line up correctly? Where as, I can pick up any of my G1 transformers, while watching a hockey game or taking a break from writing computer programs, and transform it over and over and over again. It becomes my stress relieving rubiks cube thing.

But to each their own. My final vote goes to the simple transformations. Of course, I say this, knowing full well that my new Leader Class Jetfire, is still sitting in the box, just calling me to break him free and transform him. Granted, I know he isn't the most advanced transformation in the Leader Class, but he sure has a lot of plastic bling-bling that can go ping-ping.

Lapse Of Reason wrote:When I was a kid, I loved bringing Transformers to my adult relatives and quickly changing them into bots and back in a few seconds. It was quick enough to have them watch the entire time and they were always impressed (or pretended to be).

When my seven year old transforms some of his Classic figures, it takes 5 to 10 minutes. Sometimes he needs some help. Gone are the days where you could make a few flips and be proud of the quick transformation. With classics and movie toys, kids miss out on that fun and quick experience. It is no wonder Hasbro feels it necessary to add lights and sound gimmicks to keep kids interested.

In many ways, I miss easy transformations. I expect complexity with Masterpiece figures, but for the general child market I think Hasbro is missing something that was a core experience in the 80's. Many 80's figures were excellent in both modes despite the easy transformation. Prime, Soundwave, Jetfire and Blaster immediately come to mind.

I love the Classics line for looks and poseability. They make great display pieces. Does anyone else feel that part of the "kid fun" is lost on these latest runs of Transformers?

I completely agree. I bought my future newphew in law two FAB toys, ROTF Optimus Prime and ROTF Megatron and we both had difficulty with them.

U know about a year or so ago people were dissing TFU 2.0 Silverbolt because he was too easy to transform. I don't get it. I love this toy BECAUSE of it's simplicity. Because it reminds me of G1.

The problem with these new toys (TFU included) is the articulation makes for a fragile toy. Hasbro needs to find some middle ground between articulation and sturdiness.

SentinelA wrote:U know about a year or so ago people were dissing TFU 2.0 Silverbolt because he was too easy to transform. I don't get it. I love this toy BECAUSE of it's simplicity. Because it reminds me of G1.

I just picked this guy up over the weekend for $13, and I must say, I FULLY get ALL the disses! $13 is still too steep a price as it's utterly boring and it doesn't look cool enough to be simply a display piece, IMO of course. I regret its purchase even at a paltry $13...especially since I made two trips across town for it as they were locking up the doors right as I was pulling in Friday evening. TRU and their damn early hours and being so far away!

Anyhow, I was so displeased with that figure that I was VERY tempted the other day to revive that crazy old thread or start a new one just to get that off my chest, so thank you for mentioning it and making it relevant!

While I often go on about my enjoyment of a good level of "involvement" in transformations, I think "simple" is best but let me elaborate further. For me, "simple" doesn't equate to "easy". A well designed Transformer can have a simple and elegant transformation process such as Universe Hound. It doesn't take a lot to transform U Hound but it isn't just a flip of this and that like in G1 figures. However, it gets the job done. There's no obtrusive kibble in either mode and the use of parts like the seats as thigh components are great design choices in my opinion. Good toy design shouldn't equate to complicated toys. In fact, good toy design should result in relatively uncomplicated transformation designs.

I enjoy the movie line figures but I do think that many of the transformation designs are poorly conceived. Part of the problem is that the level of complexity in design of the character models requires that the toy designs make compromises in the toy designs.

I think many of the Classics and Universe figures are fine for uncomplicated transformations but there are some really poorly designed figures like U Galvatron.

SentinelA wrote:
U know about a year or so ago people were dissing TFU 2.0 Silverbolt because he was too easy to transform. I don't get it. I love this toy BECAUSE of it's simplicity. Because it reminds me of G1.

Totally agree.

Convotron wrote:While I often go on about my enjoyment of a good level of "involvement" in transformations, I think "simple" is best but let me elaborate further. For me, "simple" doesn't equate to "easy". A well designed Transformer can have a simple and elegant transformation process such as Universe Hound. It doesn't take a lot to transform U Hound but it isn't just a flip of this and that like in G1 figures. However, it gets the job done. There's no obtrusive kibble in either mode and the use of parts like the seats as thigh components are great design choices in my opinion. Good toy design shouldn't equate to complicated toys. In fact, good toy design should result in relatively uncomplicated transformation designs.

I enjoy the movie line figures but I do think that many of the transformation designs are poorly conceived. Part of the problem is that the level of complexity in design of the character models requires that the toy designs make compromises in the toy designs.

I think many of the Classics and Universe figures are fine for uncomplicated transformations but there are some really poorly designed figures like U Galvatron.

I really love U Cyclonus for this reason. There's nothing super complicated and fidgety, but there's some meat to the transformation. Both modes are fantastic, and the whole transformation takes about a minute. I actually really love Movie Jolt for the same reason. His transformation is relatively simple (but different, with the roof arms, like Minicon Spiral) and there's no delicate panel alignment.

Counterpunch wrote:

SentinelA wrote:
U know about a year or so ago people were dissing TFU 2.0 Silverbolt because he was too easy to transform. I don't get it. I love this toy BECAUSE of it's simplicity. Because it reminds me of G1.

Totally agree.

Totally agree as well, though you'll have to replace Silverbolt with Darkwing(d). Nice easy transformation that has an excellent clean robot mode.

Now let's compare him to Powerglide. My PG doesn't want to stay together in the middle, his "stomach" keeps popping out and off, his wings don't really stay clipped, and it's extremely easy to accidently activate his sound effects in robot mode. Plus he's pretty top heavy and just looks overly bulky.

While Powerglide isn't a horrible figure, Darkwing(d) is just a better jet figure overall in my opinion. Being able to transform him in ten seconds(with a great Transforming sound location) is just a bonus.

Duke of Luns wrote:Being able to transform him in ten seconds(with a great Transforming sound location) is just a bonus.

While I don't think much of this mold, I do agree with the transformation sound. It is very well placed and fitting...the highlight of the figure.