The Energon Pub

so in your opinion which toy surpassed the original?

the one that immediately comes to mind is Universe Cyclonus
any others?

By which measurement?

In terms of articulation, every new figure has surpassed their original.

In terms of simplicity, the original figures usually win.

In terms of quality, that's of greater debate.

Masterpieces are no-brainer (although nothing can compare to owning the originals);
Uni Cyclonus, Titanium Rodimus and Scourge also made awesome jobs.

Mkall wrote:By which measurement?

In terms of articulation, every new figure has surpassed their original.

In terms of simplicity, the original figures usually win.

In terms of quality, that's of greater debate.

What he said plus:

In terms of design aesthetic, probably most of them although the Movieverse is contraversial.

All of them? Once you get past nostalgia, most G1 figures are really bad. The only reason we "prefer" originals is because they remind us of childhood.

GuyIncognito wrote:All of them? Once you get past nostalgia, most G1 figures are really bad. The only reason we "prefer" originals is because they remind us of childhood.

I enjoy the simplicity of the older figures. I don't like spending 15 minutes messing with a figure to get all the pieces in "just the right spot" to transform him (I'm looking at you movie figures).

wmpyr wrote:so in your opinion which toy surpassed the original?

the one that immediately comes to mind is Universe Cyclonus
any others?

No offense, but I think a better topic would be "Which ones didn't surpass the original?" I think that would be a far shorter list. The first one that comes to mind for me would be Universe Hotshot and Jolt. I'll take the origianl versions anyday over the updated ones.

El Duque wrote:

wmpyr wrote:so in your opinion which toy surpassed the original?

the one that immediately comes to mind is Universe Cyclonus
any others?

No offense, but I think a better topic would be "Which ones didn't surpass the original?" I think that would be a far shorter list. The first one that comes to mind for me would be Universe Hotshot and Jolt. I'll take the origianl versions anyday over the updated ones.

LOL that is sadly true... ouch Hasbro!

GuyIncognito wrote:All of them? Once you get past nostalgia, most G1 figures are really bad. The only reason we "prefer" originals is because they remind us of childhood.

A very honest opinion here, I wonder if many of you can agree?

Mkall wrote:By which measurement?

In terms of articulation, every new figure has surpassed their original.

In terms of simplicity, the original figures usually win.

In terms of quality, that's of greater debate.

It's really a personal choice,
and that's why I gave the example.

Another example for me is

Classics Megatron
and for so many reasons such as:

Transformation, articulation, bot mode in general, over all package

El Duque wrote:No offense, but I think a better topic would be "Which ones didn't surpass the original?" I think that would be a far shorter list. The first one that comes to mind for me would be Universe Hotshot and Jolt. I'll take the origianl versions anyday over the updated ones.

One that didn't...Jetfire.

*edit to add Grimlock.

wmpyr wrote:Another example for me is

Classics Megatron
and for so many reasons such as:

Transformation, articulation, bot mode in general, over all package

You mean Cl Megs is an example for one that didn't surpass the original?

The original Megatron is THE weapon, if you don't have one, you must get one, while Cl Megs is just a NERF gun.

Then there's figures that didn't surpass the middle... F'rex, the movie Megatrons are dwarfed in fun, play value, and looks by the Energon and Cybertron/GF Megatrons and Galvatrons.

wmpyr wrote:

GuyIncognito wrote:All of them? Once you get past nostalgia, most G1 figures are really bad. The only reason we "prefer" originals is because they remind us of childhood.

A very honest opinion here, I wonder if many of you can agree?

I agree. The only reason I've bought G1 in my adult life is to do things like complete the Dinobots. Other than a few core characters I'm just not interested in buying them.

I would happily take G1 Prowl, Jazz, Sideswipe, Bluestreak, Smokescreen and Inferno over their Classics counterparts.

I prefer the G1 seeker jet modes to the Classics which seem cheap in comparison though they do have the better robot modes.

On topic:

Robotmasters Mirage

Robotmasters Seekers

Universe Devestator (landfill repaint)

Classics Galvatron (better colour schmeme and head)

Classics Jetfire

Universe Roadbuster

Movie Bludgeon (Wreckage repaint not that other abomination)

Classics Springer

Classics Silverbolt

To those who prefer G1 - I admit that it's nostalgia and simplification, can you?

If Hasbro released a new figure in the style of G1, people would have screaming fits. Look at what happened with Cybertron Backstop, after all - simple though unique transform, better proportions than most G1 robot modes, and an almost total brick. People DESPISED that little guy.

I don't think Cybertron Backstop is a good example to use. It's just a poorly designed figure created during a time when better toy design is the norm. The G1 Dinobots are better toys than Backstop in my opinion.

I'm a big fan of toy design so I'm usually of the opinion that newer versions of figures are better. The Classics line really satisfies my G1 nostalgia as well as my appreciation for good toy design.

Valandar wrote:To those who prefer G1 - I admit that it's nostalgia and simplification, can you?

If Hasbro released a new figure in the style of G1, people would have screaming fits. Look at what happened with Cybertron Backstop, after all - simple though unique transform, better proportions than most G1 robot modes, and an almost total brick. People DESPISED that little guy.

I'll also add the word durability. I can still transform many of my G1 toys today, meanwhile the FIRST time I transformed the Ice Cream truck twin, Skids arm fell off... and I knew it would fall off because I saw it on every review, made sure not to do what they did, and mine still fell off... and I constantly hear about the Prowl/Bluestreak/Smokescreen mold have heads breaking, or doors being pulled off, because they will fall off when you transform them. Yay, for cheap plastic and technology. How many of these new toys will still have playability 20-25 years from now?

Seriously, I get it. The collecting community despises G1 toys and everything associated with them. Of course, if it weren't for those crappy toys, there would be no hobby, no community, no one to listen to constant bashing of the G1 line, because there would be no more Transformers to collect today. Are they perfect? No, they aren't, but they were good for what they were back in the 80s, fun toys.

And collectors need to keep that in mind. The G1s were popularized in the 80s, but were originally made in the 70s. Different time, era and any other adjective that comes to mind. People's tastes are so much different these days. I prefer to look at G1 toys like one collects hockey cards. Sure it's nice to own Game-Used jersey cards of Gretzky, Howe, Roy, Dryden, etc... but do you mean to tell me, you WOULD NOT want their rookie cards from the 60's, 70's, or 80's, because there is nothing special about them, aside from being a colorful piece of cardboard? I highly doubt that, and I'm sure the same analogy works in the other sports. I see the G1 toys as the rookies of all the great Transformers that are out now, that I was smart enough not to stick in bike spokes or have family eager to throw them all to the curb. Maybe the haters of G1 will calm down, and let those who enjoy them, allow them to do so.

G1 toys are nothing special, but simple, nostalgic, durable, and every collector on here knows that if they have a favorite character in Transformers, their collection will not be complete without their G1 version.

No, we do NOT despise G1 toys.

They are the foundation.

The simple fact is, however, they ARE more primitive in MANY ways.

Also, that "durability? In 20 years, you'll still be able to play with, say, Classics/Universe Sideswipe, even if his arms occasionally pop off, because they POP RIGHT BACK ON. If G1 Sideswipe's arm pops off at the shoulder, it takes a LOT more to fix it.

godzill216 wrote:I'll also add the word durability. I can still transform many of my G1 toys today, meanwhile the FIRST time I transformed the Ice Cream truck twin, Skids arm fell off... and I knew it would fall off because I saw it on every review, made sure not to do what they did, and mine still fell off... and I constantly hear about the Prowl/Bluestreak/Smokescreen mold have heads breaking, or doors being pulled off, because they will fall off when you transform them. Yay, for cheap plastic and technology. How many of these new toys will still have playability 20-25 years from now?

I don't have the Ice Cream Truck version of the Twins but if there's an issue with the arm, which you saw in "every review", then it's a design issue, not an issue with modern Transformers toys.

I own Classics Silverstreak and Henkei Prowl. I've never had any problems with their parts. The doors will pop out of the ball joints because of the very precise maneuvering required for transforming those parts.

I think a better example of a fragile figure from modern Transformers toys is Scalpel. Now that's a figure plagued with consistent reports of fragility.

Durability isn't strictly a thing of G1 toys. Look at Classics Voyager class Optimus Prime. That's one solid figure that will definitely last 20+ years. I don't own a lot of the movie line figures but Dropkick, Stockade, Thrust are figures that come to mind when I think of durable modern Transformers toys.

Valandar wrote:No, we do NOT despise G1 toys.

They are the foundation.

The simple fact is, however, they ARE more primitive in MANY ways.

Primitive? They may be primitive in the ways of articulation, but their "primitive" ways were available to make the most awesome gimmicks.
Combiners - Defensor, Bruticus, and the others easily win over most of the modern figures, despite being brick-formers.
Bases - I really miss them. Take Countdown, Overlord, or any other for example - in term of playability, pure awesomeness.

Also, they weren't bound to one type of alt.mode: I really love robotic animal-type (not "realistic") and futuristic alts, and G1 had lots of them, while lately Tfs are about real-life alts.

I guess the big thing is how much of it is a spell casted from nostalgia?

G1 Meg to me is all about Nostalgia and very good for the time,
but you can tell it was a handful for them to do,
it pushed their limits, look at the bot mode, he looks funny.
In grade school they would have beaten him up and taken his lunch money,
no wonder he has a chip on his shoulder now LOL

Classics Meg, is a Nerf gun, as a nerf gun they did a good job.
They had to pick that gun for political reasons, the design is MUCH better
than G1 Meg.

If they were allowed to do a Walther P38, I bet it would have been awesomesauce!

so bringing up alt modes is not even a valid argument if you ask me, unless
your talking about actual detail comparisons.

I do like that the classics does not use chrome. To be anti chrome I thought is a lesson
collectors learn... oh well there seems to be a strong chrome following here.
For me it's more hassle to deal with, it's not worth the cool looks IMO.

wmpyr wrote:G1 Meg to me is all about Nostalgia and very good for the time,
but you can tell it was a handful for them to do,
it pushed their limits, look at the bot mode, he looks funny.
In grade school they would have beaten him up and taken his lunch money,

A lot of people say G1 Megs has a crap robot form but they seem to be forgetting that when we were 8 we thought he looked cool and awesome and didn't notice or care that he bore little resemblance to the cartoon!

wmpyr wrote:If they were allowed to do a Walther P38, I bet it would have been awesomesauce!

Huh, take a look at MP Megs. The most complex transformation with the tiniest, fiddliest parts on a figure THAT big and people still complain that he's too skinny! I think he's great but there's no way they could have made a convincing W-P38 in voyager size.

There's something about the metal in the G1's that, for me, adds to the realism of their alternate modes in a way the Classics plastic never will. I can't place my finger on it, it just does.

G1 Prowl and Jazz have some nice arm articulation and I love that silver rifle of Prowl's. Though I do like the way Classics Prowl's gun folds up.

For years, I never liked pics of G1 Megatron's bot mode. The arms seemed too small. But when I finally did buy him, I just fell in love with it. I do like Henkei Megatron and his cartoon/Actionmaster aesthetic but again metal, G1 Megatron has that 'je ne sais quoi'. Plus his face has an air of menace I've not seen in any other toy. He also helped me win my ex-fiancee over to my Transformer collecting, because of his realistic, heavy metallic, gun mode which I doubt Henkei Megatron would have. Plus how many fictional villains have their toy banned due to realism?

In reality though, it's all down to personal taste and the individual toy. While I could easily be described as a G1er and think the brick thing adds to characters like Snapdragon, G1 Star Sabre, who I've seen in pics, really seems like a brick with a disproportionately large head to me, while his Robotmasters successor seems a lot more streamlined and anime looking, which I do prefer.

Another culprit is Motorvator Flame. Mind you, while I thought his teammate Gripper would fall into the same category, his role as the core of Road Caeser lends it self to some nice arm movement and he's got a great car mode.

Mykltron wrote:A lot of people say G1 Megs has a crap robot form but they seem to be forgetting that when we were 8 we thought he looked cool and awesome and didn't notice or care that he bore little resemblance to the cartoon!

Huh, take a look at MP Megs. The most complex transformation with the tiniest, fiddliest parts on a figure THAT big and people still complain that he's too skinny! I think he's great but there's no way they could have made a convincing W-P38 in voyager size.

when I was a kid I asked for Prime, Mom said I'll get you Megs instead and I said no thanks, cause I thought he looked Shite. So don't count me in that mix

Good point about MP Megs, man that was a horrible one, how many people must have gotten so let down by that thing breaking in their hands...

But this leads to a good point, would you prefer a Megs that looked REALLY good as a gun but horrible bot mode, or the reverse?
Let's say 6 shot is a prime example of the reverse.
Shockwave is probably a good balance