The Energon Pub

Posted: **Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:36 pm**

I'm new to TF collecting, about 2 months in. I really like the Generations line because of the G1 characters robot modes are so reminiscent of the G1 cartoon characters. I guess that's what I'm looking for in my collection. There was an earlier post about Wheeljack and Frenzy and Rumble and they called the lines Generations/United. Didn't it used to be called Classics?

Also I've been reading people talk about a brand/series/production, Henkei. I googled it but didn't really learn much from their Wiki besides they are the Japan version of Generations. Are the toys the same as what we get in Hasbro packages?

Posted: **Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:42 pm**

SN95 Cobra R wrote:I'm new to TF collecting, about 2 months in. I really like the Generations line because of the G1 characters robot modes are so reminiscent of the G1 cartoon characters. I guess that's what I'm looking for in my collection. There was an earlier post about Wheeljack and Frenzy and Rumble and they called the lines Generations/United. Didn't it used to be called Classics?

Also I've been reading people talk about a brand/series/production, Henkei. I googled it but didn't really learn much from their Wiki besides they are the Japan version of Generations. Are the toys the same as what we get in Hasbro packages?

The line was first called Clasics

Then it was Universe 2.0

Then it was Generations

Soon, if I'm right, Hasbro is changing the name again.

The Japanese versions most of the times have different paint apps.

Posted: **Sat Nov 13, 2010 10:51 pm**

Okay, here's the deal.

Originally, there was Universe - nothing but figures from slightly older lines repackaged and sent to discount chains, for the most part.

Then (in 2006, as a "filler line" before the 2007 movie) came Classics. This line included "Nerf Gun" Voyager Megatron, the original "Classics Bumblebee", the Optimus Prime and Ultra Magnus that fit inside the FP City Commander armor, a 2-pack of Deluxe sized Optimus and (tank) megs, Mirage, the Seeker mold, and a few others. Many of the figures in this line were notable for having rubsigns for the first time in decades.

Concurrently, Takara released those same molds with slightly more "classic" (and chrome covered) paint jobs. This was the Henkei line.

2007 saw (at BotCon) the release of the three at the time missing Seekers - Thundercracker, Dirge, and Thrust. These three would become probably the most sought-after figures that counted as "Classics".

In 2008, after the Movie Line ran its course, Universe 2.0 was 'unleashed'. Often called "Classics/Universe", there were a few repaints in the line (such as a more cartoon accurate Starscream), and lots of new molds - Ironhide/Ratchet, Sideswipe / Sunstreaker, Prowl / Silverstreak / Smokescreen, and many more. Again, many were repainted by the Henkei line (including as characters not available at the time, such as Red Alert). Unlike the original Classics line, this line expanded out of G1 somewhat - Inferno, for example, was based on his G2 incarnation (with watercannon instead of ladder), and Cheetor and Dinobot of Beast Wars were included.

This year saw the release of the Generations line. Much like U/CL (aka Universe 2.0), this is not focused entirely on G1 reproductions as the WFC figures show, but it is also limited to the Deluxe size class.

Apparantly next year will see the "Reveal the Shield" line, pretty much combining all current figure lines into one line, so non-Deluxe figures can be released (such as Solar Storm Grapple). These figures will not be named "Autobot Suchandsuch" or "Decepticon Suchandsuch", as the whole point of the line is the rubsign.

Does that help?

Posted: **Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:09 pm**

A very clear explanation, but as far as logical? None what so ever. I assume they just kept new names coming to make it look like they had a lot going on. Where would a prudent person buy Henkei? Also how is that pronounced? Hen-key? Hen-kEYE?

Posted: **Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:14 pm**

Valandar wrote: These figures will not be named "Autobot Suchandsuch" or "Decepticon Suchandsuch", as the whole point of the line is the rubsign.

So, characters like "Jazz,Tracks" excetra with have other "pre-fix's" in front of their names since trademarks regulations forbid a toy to use those names..

Posted: **Sat Nov 13, 2010 11:56 pm**

The original Hasbro line released in 2006 was named "Transformers Classics". Takara's version was named "Henkei! Henkei! Transformers", which I believe "Henkei" translates into "Transform".
Hasbro then in 2008 continued the classic figures under the name "Transformeres Universe", although Takara decided to keep the "Henkei" name.
For 2010 Hasbro decided to use a new approach by extending the movie figures longer through the year under a generic "Transformers" line (a.k.a. Hunt for the Decepticons) while a classic "intro" line of deluxe class figures was released alongside. This line is named "Transformers Generations". Both the movie figures and Generations will be replaced by an all-classic figure line named "Transformers Reveal the Shield", which appears to be the successor to "Universe", at the end of the year.
As for Takara, their equivilant of "Hunt for the Decepticons" is named "Autobot Alliance", while their version of "Generations" is named "Transformers United". I'm not completely sure, but I think they will continue to use "United" through Hasbro's "Reveal the Shield", so "United" is technically the successor to "Henkei".
As for the differences between Hasbro and Takara, it's basically just minor differences in the paint applications. Occasionally, Hasbro or Takara will decide to release a few of their own special edition figures that the other one does not.
Hope this clears things up.

Posted: **Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:45 am**

SN95 Cobra R wrote:A very clear explanation, but as far as logical? None what so ever. I assume they just kept new names coming to make it look like they had a lot going on. Where would a prudent person buy Henkei? Also how is that pronounced? Hen-key? Hen-kEYE?

1 ) Hasbro changes line names for a few reasons. Some stores, for example, won't put out new waves of any given toy line if old waves are still on the shelves. By declaring it a new line, these stores will clearance the old shelfwarmers, and accept a full batch of the new line. In addition, new lines means new packaging, which will catch a child's eye after they have grown used to the old packaging (and started to ignore it).

2 ) Prudent? Several reasons. In many cases, the Henkei versions of a figure had better / more cartoon or G1 toy accurate paint applications (the Classics and most Universe figures were "updates" and thus didn't always have the same paint apps as their originals), and there's also incidents where the QC was bette in the Henkei line.

One of the most infamous examples of this is Classics "Nerf" Megatron (so named because his alt mode resembles the Nerf Maverick revolver).

Compare this:
http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/ ... /928/1/51/

With this:
http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/ ... 1450/1/90/

The first one is the US / Hasbro / "Classics" version, with the neon paint and plastic colors required by US toy laws.

The second, however, is the Takara "Henkei" version, with far more G1 accurate colors and a far more eye-pleasing scheme.

I paid $20 for Classics "Nerf" Megatron, and $30 for Henkei "Nerf" Megatron. And while the Henkei version sits on my Classics Decepticon shelf as the ultimate leader, the Classics version sits a few shelves below, "stuck" in gun mode, languishing away.

Posted: **Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:15 am**

Thats a nice Megatron. What I meant by prudent is where do you find them at a reasonable price? I should have clarified because when I think of importing Japanese transformers I think expensive.

Posted: **Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:19 pm**

Depends on what your definition of reasonable is.

For instance BBTS.com has Henkei Dark SkyFire at a discounted price of $40 which I think is rather reasonable for an exclusive of that nature. You may not.

TFsource has several Henkei figures for varying prices, some more reasonable than others.

Prime for $70
Cheetor for $24
Hound for $30
Astrotrain for $32
Galvatron for $30

Cheetor for instance is a little expensive considering the American version can be had for 5 bucks.

While Prime being the hardest to get a hold of now is not too bad.

Posted: **Sun Nov 14, 2010 1:21 pm**

SN95 Cobra R wrote:Thats a nice Megatron. What I meant by prudent is where do you find them at a reasonable price? I should have clarified because when I think of importing Japanese transformers I think expensive.

Henkei figures are generally more expensive than their American counterparts, especially if you get them from out of your country, since the shipping will be much higher. I haven't gotten any Henkei figures yet, but I'm thinking about getting some from Big Bad Toystore, Amazon.com, or eBay.

SN95 Cobra R wrote:Also how is that pronounced? Hen-key? Hen-kEYE?

I don't know for sure how it would be pronounced, but I always imagined hen-KAY, since that's how it would be pronounced in Chinese (I don't know Japanese, so it could be wrong).

Posted: **Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:11 pm**

So there are no online retailers "over there" that you can buy Henkei from? We have to get them from our own US online stores? I'm just trying to figure out how people do it. I know our dollar converts to yen for less and that hikes up the price plus the international shipping but if all of their common figures are going to be 25 dollars I don't think they are for me.

Posted: **Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:52 pm**

SN95 Cobra R wrote:So there are no online retailers "over there" that you can buy Henkei from? We have to get them from our own US online stores? I'm just trying to figure out how people do it. I know our dollar converts to yen for less and that hikes up the price plus the international shipping but if all of their common figures are going to be 25 dollars I don't think they are for me.

Any discounts you may find from a japanese retailer would be offset by the shipping. Your going to pay about the same regardless. You can spend hours scouring the net for a deal that may not exist, good luck though. Since these toys are for the most part a couple of years old they are gonna cost what they cost. The more popular they are the more they will cost too. You might get lucky, I found a Henkei Prime for about $50/free shipping on ebay, that seemed fair to me. Keep checking ebay though, you might get lucky.

Posted: **Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:06 pm**

Ah, so these Generations/Hen's are not current on the shelves over there?

Posted: **Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:09 pm**

SN95 Cobra R wrote:So there are no online retailers "over there" that you can buy Henkei from? We have to get them from our own US online stores? I'm just trying to figure out how people do it. I know our dollar converts to yen for less and that hikes up the price plus the international shipping but if all of their common figures are going to be 25 dollars I don't think they are for me.

Of course, places like robotkingdom, Hobby Link Japan Angolz etc.. Ship from there. However shipping from there usually ends up being more expensive that buying from local online retailers. Why? Because its farther away. Online retailers offset the shipping costs because they ship many things at once.

For instance if shipping a single figure costs 30 extra dollars, but shipping a case of 10 figures costs say 100. The shipping costs get divided between the figures, and you end up paying only 10 dollars shipping for each figure.

That means any additional markups placed on the figure by the retailer get reduced. So say you buy a 20 dollar figure, ship it from china for 35 or so. You end up paying 55 for it. You buy it locally, the online retailer may mark it up say 10 maybe 15 dollars to compensate the shipping costs they incur, and whatever profit they make. You pay 35 plus 10 or so for local shipping you are still 10 to 15 bucks under.

There occasions were you may find a great bargain in an overseas retailer, if you are ordering several things, you may just offset the shipping charges enough to make it worth it.

Most of the time, ordering locally will be cheaper though.

Posted: **Sun Nov 14, 2010 4:52 pm**

The problem with shopping for Henkei figures now is that they are pretty much all out of print/no longer being produced. The Henkei line ran from March 2008 and ended in April of 2009. Whatever figures you see at online stores are simply left over stock or in some cases, limited second production runs for popular sellers(i.e. Optimus Prime and Hound).

You also have to understand that the Japanese collector market is very different from the US. Japanese figures are solicited months in advance and figures are ordered individually. The US packs the figures in waves/cases. The figures, therefore, end up in much smaller quantities, as opposed to their US counterparts.

With the Henkei line dead, its spiritual successor is Transformers United. These figures will begin shipping in late December. You'll notice that domestic online stores have these figures for preorder at much higher prices. You can blame this on the exchange rate, the USD is at an all time low against the Yen. You can always buy them directly from Japanese or Hong Kong base sellers and it'll save you a few dollars. But in keep in mind that you'll be charge a higher shipping price due to location.

Posted: **Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:03 pm**

SN95 Cobra R wrote:Ah, so these Generations/Hen's are not current on the shelves over there?

Well Henkei figures in Japan as current as Hasbro's Classics and Universe lines so no they are not on the shelves over there. Transformers United is the current successor to Henkei. Also, keep in mind Generations is Hasbro-only, too, and is not the same line in Japan. It's just a small deluxe class only line that will lead into the larger Reveal the Shield line. In Japan, both the figures from Generations and Reveal the Shield are one line; United.

Posted: **Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:28 pm**

OptiMagnus10 wrote: I believe "Henkei" translates into "Transform".

im prettty sure transform = henshin(kamen rider)
this thread has been helpful to me as th whole takara henkei bandai tomy etc has always confused me.
Cheers!

Posted: **Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:37 pm**

ArmadaPrime wrote:im prettty sure transform = henshin(kamen rider)
this thread has been helpful to me as th whole takara henkei bandai tomy etc has always confused me.
Cheers!

Nope. Henshin is mostly used on humans changing clothes (Power Rangers, Kamen Riders, etc). Robots use Henkei. To translate them into Japanese/Chinese. Henshin is 變身, which is change body. Henkei is 變形, which is change form or change shape.

Posted: **Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:45 pm**

paul053 wrote:
ArmadaPrime wrote:im prettty sure transform = henshin(kamen rider)
this thread has been helpful to me as th whole takara henkei bandai tomy etc has always confused me.
Cheers!

Nope. Henshin is mostly used on humans changing clothes (Power Rangers, Kamen Riders, etc). Robots use Henkei. To translate them into Japanese/Chinese. Henshin is 變身, which is change body. Henkei is 變形, which is change form or change shape.

Here are the examples where the reverse is true:

Japanese Beast Wars (all series): "Henshin" for all totally organic Maximals and Predacons, "Transform" for the BWII Predacons including the Cyborg Beasts

Ninja Sentai Kakurenger: Transformation phrase is "Super Henkei, Doron Changer"

Posted: **Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:03 pm**

thanks for the help guys but wah. wah.
japanese confuses my small brain.

Posted: **Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:21 pm**

Valandar wrote:
1 ) Hasbro changes line names for a few reasons. Some stores, for example, won't put out new waves of any given toy line if old waves are still on the shelves. By declaring it a new line, these stores will clearance the old shelfwarmers, and accept a full batch of the new line. In addition, new lines means new packaging, which will catch a child's eye after they have grown used to the old packaging (and started to ignore it).

2 ) Prudent? Several reasons. In many cases, the Henkei versions of a figure had better / more cartoon or G1 toy accurate paint applications (the Classics and most Universe figures were "updates" and thus didn't always have the same paint apps as their originals), and there's also incidents where the QC was bette in the Henkei line.

One of the most infamous examples of this is Classics "Nerf" Megatron (so named because his alt mode resembles the Nerf Maverick revolver).

Compare this:
http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/ ... /928/1/51/

With this:
http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/ ... 1450/1/90/

The first one is the US / Hasbro / "Classics" version, with the neon paint and plastic colors required by US toy laws.

The second, however, is the Takara "Henkei" version, with far more G1 accurate colors and a far more eye-pleasing scheme.

I paid $20 for Classics "Nerf" Megatron, and $30 for Henkei "Nerf" Megatron. And while the Henkei version sits on my Classics Decepticon shelf as the ultimate leader, the Classics version sits a few shelves below, "stuck" in gun mode, languishing away.

It's debatable whether Henkei had "better QC" than Classics. All the toys from both lines were made at the same factories, using the same staff and equipment.

BOTH Henkei and Classics went for G1 accuracy. Takara were more into cartoon accuracy, while Classics were open to using toy-accurate details, like what they did for Astrotrain, Red Alert and Mirage.

Posted: **Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:52 pm**

Droptested Thrice wrote:
Valandar wrote:
1 ) Hasbro changes line names for a few reasons. Some stores, for example, won't put out new waves of any given toy line if old waves are still on the shelves. By declaring it a new line, these stores will clearance the old shelfwarmers, and accept a full batch of the new line. In addition, new lines means new packaging, which will catch a child's eye after they have grown used to the old packaging (and started to ignore it).

2 ) Prudent? Several reasons. In many cases, the Henkei versions of a figure had better / more cartoon or G1 toy accurate paint applications (the Classics and most Universe figures were "updates" and thus didn't always have the same paint apps as their originals), and there's also incidents where the QC was bette in the Henkei line.

One of the most infamous examples of this is Classics "Nerf" Megatron (so named because his alt mode resembles the Nerf Maverick revolver).

Compare this:
http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/ ... /928/1/51/

With this:
http://www.seibertron.com/transformers/ ... 1450/1/90/

The first one is the US / Hasbro / "Classics" version, with the neon paint and plastic colors required by US toy laws.

The second, however, is the Takara "Henkei" version, with far more G1 accurate colors and a far more eye-pleasing scheme.

I paid $20 for Classics "Nerf" Megatron, and $30 for Henkei "Nerf" Megatron. And while the Henkei version sits on my Classics Decepticon shelf as the ultimate leader, the Classics version sits a few shelves below, "stuck" in gun mode, languishing away.

It's debatable whether Henkei had "better QC" than Classics. All the toys from both lines were made at the same factories, using the same staff and equipment.

BOTH Henkei and Classics went for G1 accuracy. Takara were more into cartoon accuracy, while Classics were open to using toy-accurate details, like what they did for Astrotrain, Red Alert and Mirage.

Not toy-accuracy per se, rather Hasbro was focusing more on realism. See the Universe Ultras versus their Japanese releases. And before we start another heated debate, both Universe and Henkei Cyclonus were far from accurate in both areas. Check the galleries.

Posted: **Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:55 pm**

SN95 Cobra R wrote:Also I've been reading people talk about a brand/series/production, Henkei. I googled it but didn't really learn much from their Wiki besides they are the Japan version of Generations. Are the toys the same as what we get in Hasbro packages?

http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Henkei

The Energon Pub

Is it Classics or Generations?!?

Is it Classics or Generations?!?

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