The Energon Pub

This seems like a silly topic since we've all heard before how people say the averag deluxe would be $40 if it were to be produced in the US, but I saw some cool stuff on the news that changed my mind.

There's a trend currently in companies bringing factory work back to the us. The reason for this being that while factory workers are paid more here, they are 3X more efficient in completing stuff and the cost comes out to about the same as if it were prduced in China and then shipped here. Also QC problems are down quite a bit with products that are being made in the US again.

This got me thinking to what if Hasbro were to bring production for the US Transformers over to the states. It would definitely separate the Takara stuff from the Hasbro fare, but it would also help them keep better track of the molds and production could be more monitored.

SO what does everyone think? Should Hasbro start producing in the US?

I'm currently of the opinion that it may be worth a shot if the prices of other products are unaffected by the move to the US.

If it would not raise the prices of figures, I'd be all for it. It would provide more job opportunities here, as well as the benefits you mentioned. It would also be more environmentally friendly, since the figures wouldn't have to be transported all the way from China.

I'd say go for it!

That would push the prices waaaaaaaaaay beyond the reach of most collectors. Why do you think Megacorporations outsource? Manufacturing costs should not eat through their bottom line.

I have no problem paying a little more to get what I want.

Pros:
- No more waiting for imports.
- Bring jobs back to America.
- QC would pick up, at least some.
- No more factory leaks, less loss, would help with the prices.

Cons:
- Something would suffer, either something as simple as paint apps, or worse...our wallets.
- Price increase might be more drastic than we thought. We could easily pay UK prices, and they'd pay insane amounts.

Is it possible to make it all work? Sure. Should we try? Yep.

I don't know why anyone would have a problem with it if they could do it without raising prices, but I have some serious doubts as to whether or not they could actually pull that off. Minimum wage laws, unions, OSHA, EPA, etc etc etc.

fenrir72 wrote:That would push the prices waaaaaaaaaay beyond the reach of most collectors. Why do you think Megacorporations outsource? Manufacturing costs should not eat through their bottom line.

It's possible, but you also have to remember that if production came to the US, then all import and overseas shipping expenses will be negated. Any of the higher price tag would be negated due to no fees for importing and shipping. The figures would simply need to be produced and distributed in North America. No middle man of dealing with getting it from China to the US.

It could go either way. It could either give us better quality control for the same price or possibly lower price or it could raise prices.

It would be a interesting experiment to see though.

Nay and Yay. It may be less pricey for shipping from Hasbro and Takara, but the two companies have a strong bond. Almsot 30 years worth of bond. But consider this. What if the prices do spike up. Not many people care for paying a few extra dollars to buy transformers, but lets say that Deluxes go to 14.58. That's almost 3 dollars on each deluxe you could've saved to pay on the gas or your house. Call me a money nitpick . Every little amount counts. However, focusing on the good, it leaves a lot of job positions open. Transformers Assembely is my Plan D. If this were a rating thread, I'd give this idea a 3.5 out of 5.

1 Question: I wonder if it would be cheaper plastic overseas or here...

Optimus1138 wrote:If it would not raise the prices of figures, I'd be all for it. It would provide more job opportunities here, as well as the benefits you mentioned. It would also be more environmentally friendly, since the figures wouldn't have to be transported all the way from China.

Even though I have a job working for UPS.

I'd happily apply for a job at the Hasbro/Takara factory assembly plant in america. I'd imagine I'd work their part time on the weekends on saturday & sunday.

depending on where the Hasbro TF assembly plant is located in America. I might even be tempted to do a UPS job transfer in that state. just to keep both jobs.

Personally i'd be willing to donate a few free working hours at the hasbro TF assembly plant in america on the weekends.

Having all my TF toy assembly questions answered on the job site would be priceless in & out of itself.

AS I often take apart TF toys to do parts swaps between various recolors a mold gets. Currently i'm trying to figure out how hard/easy it is for the automated machines to place all those pressured springs & pressured gears inside TF toys that are over loaded with gimmicks & click click click noise making moving joints.

getting a birds eye view how the automated machines manage to place those twist ties thru those tiny inner card board box holes to seal the TF toys in their boxy prisions,would be another PRICELESS experience that couldn't be measured in gold.

robofreak wrote:This seems like a silly topic since we've all heard before how people say the averag deluxe would be $40 if it were to be produced in the US, but I saw some cool stuff on the news that changed my mind.

There's a trend currently in companies bringing factory work back to the us. The reason for this being that while factory workers are paid more here, they are 3X more efficient in completing stuff and the cost comes out to about the same as if it were prduced in China and then shipped here. Also QC problems are down quite a bit with products that are being made in the US again.

This got me thinking to what if Hasbro were to bring production for the US Transformers over to the states. It would definitely separate the Takara stuff from the Hasbro fare, but it would also help them keep better track of the molds and production could be more monitored.

SO what does everyone think? Should Hasbro start producing in the US?

I'm currently of the opinion that it may be worth a shot if the prices of other products are unaffected by the move to the US.

Since toys are considered a LUXURY & not a NECCESSITY. I just don't see the USA government giving toy companies any incentives to open up assembly plants in America.

The incentives I'm referring to that the USA goernment gives is as follows: Property tax breaks, offering to pay half the pay if the company hires mentally challenged or minorities in decent volume units. not having to pay taxes at the end of the year. possible free grants to help build the place & supplies.

I'd imagine if TF toys were assembled in american based factories. the prices would increase. I'd also imagine with the higher prices the bigger toy sizes would be cancelled or made less frequently. i'm not a fan nor buyer of smaller TF toy. SO I'D SAY NAY.

I say go for it. Even if the price goes up a few dollars. The US economy really needs some manufacturing jobs to return to this country.

MagnusPrimal wrote:I say go for it. Even if the price goes up a few dollars. The US economy really needs some manufacturing jobs to return to this country.

What if the higher prices force hasbro to get rid of the bigger scaled TF toys like leaders,supreme & ultra's.

What if the higher prices force Hasbro to limit the number of new mold TF toys made per year or get rid of the sub lines?

would you still be for it?

deathy wrote:

MagnusPrimal wrote:I say go for it. Even if the price goes up a few dollars. The US economy really needs some manufacturing jobs to return to this country.

What if the higher prices force hasbro to get rid of the bigger scaled TF toys like leaders,supreme & ultra's.

What if the higher prices force Hasbro to limit the number of new mold TF toys made per year or get rid of the sub lines?

would you still be for it?

Do you think that won't happen with the system as it is now?

TransFormers won't be here forever. They will run out of ideas, the whole thing will lose steam. They're already downsizing figures to accommodate ridiculous weapons, it's just a matter of time before they phase out size classes.

Ultras? Gone.
Decepticon Leader Class? Gone.

TransFormers Prime will consist of Deluxes and Voyagers only.

Generations is Deluxe only. (aside from those Mini-Con repaints)

Do you see a trend here? We're already losing the larger classes, one step at a time.

If they're going down the drain, why not have them produced here?

I'm no Hasbro hack 'cause they have made quite a number of dumb decisions in the TF line. But for all the grief we give the Megacorps like them, without them we wouldn't have had TF. They took a risk in an unknown (for us at the time) japanese toyline and voila..........30 years later its cultural icon. Those capitalist pigs took a gamble and see where it got them?

In a perfect world, I would have preferred TFs being manufactured in Japan. But with the yen waaaaaaaaaaaaay big, never hope in seeing that happen. But bringing it to the US, (manufacturing wise) is a folly in the making.

Hear me out, back in the 60s, even to the early 80s when some toys were still being made directly in the US (Tonka,Nylint),those names evoked quality and sturdiness............last a lifetime analogy. Thats what US toys were for me, but where are those toys now? I still see a China made Tonka(all plastic btw and not the heavy duty steel it used to be), as for NyLint and those other uber terrific Fire Trucks with working hoses, they died out because they couldn't keep manufacturing costs down.

R n D eats up the bulk of the business, not to mention distribution, running the company, paying the workers, buying the raw materials and eventually the BOTTOM LINE.

Once the Unions get in, expect a disparate proportion of the cost to paying the workers (that will eat into the bottom line which is the main purpose of a capitalist investor)

Heck, just the slight increase in the SRP and may are already bellyaching. So I stand by the opposite fence robofreak. THis will entail too much costs for our favorite hobby. (Though I long for the day to have an American made TF toy that would stand along side the toylines of the 70s and 80s that not only were tough but also high quality)

The whole idea around this centers on the fact that while workers are paid more out here in the US. All the middleman are taken out of the equation. Less people getting paid to distribute the TF goodies.

Now as other companies are noticing that production costs are coming out to about the same for producing in the US and having workers that are 3x more efficient.

With all this in mind, other products are seeing the about the same retail price by the time they hit the store if they were to be produced in China and then shipped here.

Wham-O! Frisbees and hula hoops have already come back to being produced in the US. They have seen no price increase or decrease. Only thing new about them is a "Made in America" stamp on them.

Now yes, there's always that possibility that stuff could go up a couple bucks, but I don't think we'll know for sure until it's attempted.

I think it's a great idea and I also don't think price hikes would be as drastic as some fear.

Autobot032 wrote:

deathy wrote:

MagnusPrimal wrote:I say go for it. Even if the price goes up a few dollars. The US economy really needs some manufacturing jobs to return to this country.

What if the higher prices force hasbro to get rid of the bigger scaled TF toys like leaders,supreme & ultra's.

What if the higher prices force Hasbro to limit the number of new mold TF toys made per year or get rid of the sub lines?

would you still be for it?

Do you think that won't happen with the system as it is now?

TransFormers won't be here forever. They will run out of ideas, the whole thing will lose steam. They're already downsizing figures to accommodate ridiculous weapons, it's just a matter of time before they phase out size classes.

Ultras? Gone.
Decepticon Leader Class? Gone.

TransFormers Prime will consist of Deluxes and Voyagers only.

Generations is Deluxe only. (aside from those Mini-Con repaints)

Do you see a trend here? We're already losing the larger classes, one step at a time.

If they're going down the drain, why not have them produced here?

That's because of the Downward spiral economy & the high prices of Gasoline.

with more than 10% of th USA Work force out of work. and those who have a job are afraid that they might lose their job.

Right now people are being cautioud of what they buy. most are just buying the necessities. some are saving up money & now over spending just in case the worse scenario happens.

toy are & always will be considered a luxury & aren't being bought in high deman right now due to the reasons I mentioned above.

OTHER KEY THINGS to factor into the equation. Usually TF toy lines with no media support don't get full blown TF toy lines. THEIR HASN'T BEEN A NEW TF MOVIE IN THEATHRES & NEW TF CARTOON ON THE AIR FOR OVER 2 YEARS.

Once the Economy in America bounces back/gets better. the 10% un-employed rate gets lowered & gas prices go down. then LUXURY stuff like toys will see a rise in people buying more of them.

Let's try to keep the politics out of this as much as possible. I don't want an argument to ensue here.

fenrir72: I completely understand you point. You also just made me really miss old Tonka. I still have my heavy duty steel machines of awesome. I'm even thinking about making Devastator out of them.

HoosierDaddy wrote:I think it's a great idea and I also don't think price hikes would be as drastic as some fear.

That's what I'm thinking. If anything price hikes would be $1 to $2. Granted all of this is speculation until we actually see them roll off US production lines. A lot of unknowns are in this, but I think it's fun to discuss.

robofreak wrote:The whole idea around this centers on the fact that while workers are paid more out here in the US. All the middleman are taken out of the equation. Less people getting paid to distribute the TF goodies.

Now as other companies are noticing that production costs are coming out to about the same for producing in the US and having workers that are 3x more efficient.

With all this in mind, other products are seeing the about the same retail price by the time they hit the store if they were to be produced in China and then shipped here.

Wham-O! Frisbees and hula hoops have already come back to being produced in the US. They have seen no price increase or decrease. Only thing new about them is a "Made in America" stamp on them.

Now yes, there's always that possibility that stuff could go up a couple bucks, but I don't think we'll know for sure until it's attempted.

Personally I don't want Hasbro to be the PIONEER in this.

I'd much rather other companies give it a try first & hasbro follows suit years later after all the wrinkles are ironed out & established data shows it makes sense.

I'd much rather the car companies,electronics,clothes,coal turned into gas,food gave it a shot first.

deathy wrote:THEIR HASN'T BEEN A NEW TF MOVIE IN THEATHRES & NEW TF CARTOON ON THE AIR FOR OVER 2 YEARS.

Never watched Transformers Prime huh?

Or are you saying it has to have a toyline to be counted? 'cause that's not really how you said it. Plus TF:Prime will be getting a line down the track anyway.

Autobot032 wrote:

deathy wrote:

MagnusPrimal wrote:I say go for it. Even if the price goes up a few dollars. The US economy really needs some manufacturing jobs to return to this country.

What if the higher prices force hasbro to get rid of the bigger scaled TF toys like leaders,supreme & ultra's.

What if the higher prices force Hasbro to limit the number of new mold TF toys made per year or get rid of the sub lines?

would you still be for it?

Do you think that won't happen with the system as it is now?

TransFormers won't be here forever. They will run out of ideas, the whole thing will lose steam. They're already downsizing figures to accommodate ridiculous weapons, it's just a matter of time before they phase out size classes.

Ultras? Gone.
Decepticon Leader Class? Gone.

TransFormers Prime will consist of Deluxes and Voyagers only.

Generations is Deluxe only. (aside from those Mini-Con repaints)

Do you see a trend here? We're already losing the larger classes, one step at a time.

If they're going down the drain, why not have them produced here?

While it's true thus far the DOTM line has no decepticons leader sized toys. Their are still thus far 3 new molds autobots leader sized toys being released in the DOTM toy line. regardless of the faction symbol. we did get the standard/average 2-3 new mold leader sized TF toys released in a newer TF toy line called DOTM.

My guess is we MIGHT get at least 1 or 2 new mold leader sized DOTM new molds released before the toy line is finished. one of those molds might be a decepticon. the ROTF toy line a year later in 2010 released one new mold HFTD Starscream & one $49.99 HFTD BBB Bumblebee toy. so who knows if this trend will continue or not.

Contrary to believe,the toys released are the proof. we did get a substantial amount of new mold voyager sized toys released in the year 2010 thru 2011. technically the 5 PCC $20 toys do form a 7 inch tall combiner so those can be considred 5 new mold voyagers.

We got the following new mold TF voyagers released in the year 2010 thru 2011: Lugnuts,Voyager HFTD Optimus Prime,Highbrow,HA $29.99 Mudflap,HFTD Bludgeon,HFTD Mindwipe,Seaspray,$29.99 HA Barricade.

So by the 2010-2011 TF voyagers new mold count. that is 9 regular new mold voyagers plus 5 PCC 7 inch $20 gestalt Voyagers. SO 16 NEW MOLD VOYAGERS RELEASED IN 2010 THRU 2011 IS AVERAGE & EVEN A BIT OVER AVERAGE. SORRY I DON'T SEE ANY SIGN HERE HASBRO TRYING TO GET RID OF OR LOWER THE AVERAGE TF voyagers number they release per year.

Generations didn't receive any new mold voyagers for 2010 thru 2011 for 3 key main factors: (1) TF toy lines that don't have media advertising the toys usually get a smaller line.(2) sub-lines never get full blown TF toy lines in all the size levels/price points like the Main TF toy lines do. (3) MOST IMPORTANTLY,THEIR WERE 3 FAN CATERED TF TOY LINES RUNNING IN THE 2010 THRU 2011 TOY YEAR. HFTD & RTS grabbed all the fan catered homage voyager sized toy molds. While Generations got all the fan catered homaged deluxe sized toys.

Burn wrote:

deathy wrote:THEIR HASN'T BEEN A NEW TF MOVIE IN THEATHRES & NEW TF CARTOON ON THE AIR FOR OVER 2 YEARS.

Never watched Transformers Prime huh?

Or are you saying it has to have a toyline to be counted? 'cause that's not really how you said it. Plus TF:Prime will be getting a line down the track anyway.

No I wasn't cancelling out TF Prime's cartoon series.

I was merely saying their hasn't been a TF movie in theathres in 2 years. from the time frame of June 2009 thru July 2011. that's a 2 year gap.

Animated stopped making newer cartoon episodes 2 plus years ago.

TF Prime just started a few months ago. before that ROTF & Animated had been done & we had a 2 year gap of no TF media advertising TF toys to sell in stores.

Autobot032 wrote:

deathy wrote:

MagnusPrimal wrote:I say go for it. Even if the price goes up a few dollars. The US economy really needs some manufacturing jobs to return to this country.

What if the higher prices force hasbro to get rid of the bigger scaled TF toys like leaders,supreme & ultra's.

What if the higher prices force Hasbro to limit the number of new mold TF toys made per year or get rid of the sub lines?

would you still be for it?

Do you think that won't happen with the system as it is now?

TransFormers won't be here forever. They will run out of ideas, the whole thing will lose steam. They're already downsizing figures to accommodate ridiculous weapons, it's just a matter of time before they phase out size classes.

Ultras? Gone.
Decepticon Leader Class? Gone.

TransFormers Prime will consist of Deluxes and Voyagers only.

Generations is Deluxe only. (aside from those Mini-Con repaints)

Do you see a trend here? We're already losing the larger classes, one step at a time.

If they're going down the drain, why not have them produced here?

The TF Prime toy line isn't even in stores yet. no one knows if their will be leader or supreme sized toys released for TF Prime's toy line. TF Prime's toy line might last a few years or a few months,no one knows. lets not SET STUFF IN STONE & SAY NO NEW MOLD LEADERS & SUPREME'S. Lets at the very least wait till the TF Prime toy line is FINISHED till we do a tally/count of the toys & sizes this toy line had.

DOTM might be a year year TF toy line or a 2+ year TF toy line like ROTF was. who knows what the 2011 TF year will bring for DOTM. we might or might not get new mold decepticons leader & supreme sized toys. lets not jump the gun & SET EVERYTHING IN STONE before may 16,2011 even arrives. it's best to wait until the DOTM toy line has ended,then do a tally/count of all the toys releases,price points & sizes.

Even the OFFICIAL Words by Hasbro/Takara are not set in stone: Example Classics 2.0 was suspose to have a voyager sized BW Rhinox & a Voyager/Ultra sized 2.0 Galvatron.

It's best to wait until the various TF toy lines end.then count everything. instead of PREDICATING OR ASSUMING WE WON'T GET THIS,THAT ,THOSE & WHAT NOTS.

REGARDING your comment on some DOTM toys being smaller in size scale due to the mech tech big guns/weapons.
Sorry I just don't see it.(1) the DOTM deluxes still appear to be 5 inches thru 5 1/2+inxhes tall this is standard deluxe height. (2)I see no sigh of the DOTM 3 new mold leader sized toys being smaller in inch height due to the mech tech guns. all 3 appear to be similar to to the 2007 movie & ROTF leader sized toys. (3)The standard TF voyagers height can range anywhere from 5 & 3/4 thru 7+ inches tall in height. the new mold DOTM voyagers are in this height varies scale. (4) the DOTM basics didn't get smaller,their similar height to previous TF toy lines.

I think the main Problem was that some year 2007 movie voyagers were made a big bigger THAN AVERAGE/NORMAL. like 2007 movie voyager Ironhide & voyager ratchet. this was a rare thing & wasn't the new standard height for future movie verse voyagers. their were about 5 other 2007 movie voyagers that were short & barely over 6 inches in robot height.

the various TF sizes classes heights aren't set in stone. since all the new molds are unique designs. size heights in robot modes will vary. their appears to be no set rules that every deluxe must measure in at exacly 5 & 1/2 inches tall.

Animated lugnuts & voyager bulkhead were barely 5 & 1/2 inches tall in height. why aren't they the new standard voyager sized inch robot height??

why count some but dismiss others???

isn't it far more efficient to gather up all toys in one size class from various years. add up all the height inches divide the numbers & come up with a base average height.

Sorry,it makes zero sense to grab to tallest height & set that as the new standard for the voyager (basic,deluxe,leader) size robot height inches.

As far as the Ultra $27 TF toy size being cancelled. this is just fan rumor & speculation based off a dry spell/gap period. IF Hasbro declares no more $27 ultrta's then I'll believe it. I need official source confirmation not un-official fan speculation/rumors.

I don't think this will happen any time soon. The reason Hasbro produced the TFs in China in the first place, was due to their partnership with Takara. Hasbro gets to use Takara's factories to produce the toys, that way the molds don't have to be transported from factory to factory, they just stay where they are saving costs. Plus I believe in the end Hasbro doesn't really have to pay any factory costs apart from the materials they use, since you know the factories belong to Takara.
If Hasbro decided to produce TFs in the US, they would have to build new factories, train their own people, transport the molds from Takara factories and back, and pay the costs that come with owning multiple factories.

Remember, back in late 2009, Hasbro announced that they and Takara where going to move production from China to Vietnam, due to better QC, security, and to cut production costs. So far they managed to produce only one toy in 2 years of being there, HFTD Leader Class Starscream.

US customers might not see higher prices from bringing production to the US, but we in Europe will. Hasbro has a habit of keeping US prices low by raising prices in Europe. While the Dollar took a downward spiral and was looking really weak against the Euro, prices in Europe kept climbing higher and higher, stuff was made more cost effective (shorter bios, all of Europe shares the same packaging while before you'd get 3 or 4 languages on one box, sound chips where edited so that they would only say their own names and no sentences), while US prices stayed the same and only increased once along with an even larger European price increase.
That would mean that Europeans would stop buying TFs, already now stores are struggling to move their stock over here, due to high prices and the fact that Hasbro Europe is **** ad promoting their product, so the only thing that would remain is the US market, which would mean higher prices, due to Hasbro no-longer having a good European market to rebound profit, expect paying around 40 dollars for a Deluxe, that has extream cost cutting measures done to it. How long do you think TF would last at those prices on a only US market?

A Deluxe class toy currently costs 20 euros over here, that's around USD 28, and I'm sure prices will raise once again with the DOTM line to bring in the money Hasbro lost last year. And you have to keep in mind that Europe gets it's TF toys directly from the factories in China, shipping form China to Europe is cheaper than from China to the US, so logically we should be getting our toys around the same price as the US, or even cheaper, no US import taxes due to Hasbro having a European branch which legally counts as a European company.

Dead Metal wrote:I don't think this will happen any time soon. The reason Hasbro produced the TFs in China in the first place, was due to their partnership with Takara. Hasbro gets to use Takara's factories to produce the toys, that way the molds don't have to be transported from factory to factory, they just stay where they are saving costs. Plus I believe in the end Hasbro doesn't really have to pay any factory costs apart from the materials they use, since you know the factories belong to Takara.
If Hasbro decided to produce TFs in the US, they would have to build new factories, train their own people, transport the molds from Takara factories and back, and pay the costs that come with owning multiple factories.

Remember, back in late 2009, Hasbro announced that they and Takara where going to move production from China to Vietnam, due to better QC, security, and to cut production costs. So far they managed to produce only one toy in 2 years of being there, HFTD Leader Class Starscream.

US customers might not see higher prices from bringing production to the US, but we in Europe will. Hasbro has a habit of keeping US prices low by raising prices in Europe. While the Dollar took a downward spiral and was looking really weak against the Euro, prices in Europe kept climbing higher and higher, stuff was made more cost effective (shorter bios, all of Europe shares the same packaging while before you'd get 3 or 4 languages on one box, sound chips where edited so that they would only say their own names and no sentences), while US prices stayed the same and only increased once along with an even larger European price increase.
That would mean that Europeans would stop buying TFs, already now stores are struggling to move their stock over here, due to high prices and the fact that Hasbro Europe is **** ad promoting their product, so the only thing that would remain is the US market, which would mean higher prices, due to Hasbro no-longer having a good European market to rebound profit, expect paying around 40 dollars for a Deluxe, that has extream cost cutting measures done to it. How long do you think TF would last at those prices on a only US market?

A Deluxe class toy currently costs 20 euros over here, that's around USD 28, and I'm sure prices will raise once again with the DOTM line to bring in the money Hasbro lost last year. And you have to keep in mind that Europe gets it's TF toys directly from the factories in China, shipping form China to Europe is cheaper than from China to the US, so logically we should be getting our toys around the same price as the US, or even cheaper, no US import taxes due to Hasbro having a European branch which legally counts as a European company.

Everything you wrote I agree with you 100%. good job in getting your points expressed in great reasonable detail.

I also thought it made no sense for Hasbro to create assembly plant factories in America. my reasons were Toys are considered LUXUIRIES. the USA govenrment won't give/grant be able to give hasbro any tax cuts,nor tax incentives nor grant money.

Companies are only willing to stop out-sourcing if they get some type of deal/help from the government. Hasbro clearly won't get any government help in the form of tax breaks,tax incentives,grants. because hasbro makes all "Luxury" items.