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Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:06 am
by -Kanrabat-
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Maybe Metalhawk?


Because the original is IMPOSSIBLE to get, even if I was a millionaire, I'd preorder that so hard!

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:13 am
by AllNewSuperRobot
-Kanrabat- wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Maybe Metalhawk?


Because the original is IMPOSSIBLE to get, even if I was a millionaire, I'd preorder that so hard!



Unfamiliar with the Japanese characters, I had to search him out on eBay. Initially I was confused as they listed him as about £44 (including postage). Which I thought was really cheap for G1. Then I saw that was for just the shell [front] (unboxed) :shock:

The immediate next listing was a MISB AFA graded one for £295 (free postage, I should think so too for that price). Which to be fair, is bloody cheap for AFA. I saw G1 Soundwave AFA for $2500 once :HEADHURTS:

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:40 am
by -Kanrabat-
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
-Kanrabat- wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Maybe Metalhawk?


Because the original is IMPOSSIBLE to get, even if I was a millionaire, I'd preorder that so hard!



Unfamiliar with the Japanese characters, I had to search him out on eBay. Initially I was confused as they listed him as about £44 (including postage). Which I thought was really cheap for G1. Then I saw that was for just the shell [front] (unboxed) :shock:

The immediate next listing was a MISB AFA graded one for £295 (free postage, I should think so too for that price). Which to be fair, is bloody cheap for AFA. I saw G1 Soundwave AFA for $2500 once :HEADHURTS:


Link for the £295 listing please. Because it's either not G1 Metalhawk, or you missed a zero.
Last time I saw a listing for a used and complete G1 Metalhawk years ago, it came with the box and all the papers and it was well over 1500$.

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:42 am
by AllNewSuperRobot

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:50 am
by -Kanrabat-
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:The Link


Ah. I knew it.
That is NOT the real G1 Metalhawk. It's seem your Transformers Knowledge is lacking. ;)
That's the KABAYA MODEL KIT. Usually, they also come with bubble gum so those kits are called Kabaya Gum kits.

Those kits are clever because you build a mini version of a G1 Transformers that can transform and everything. Usually, they go for very cheap. Like 5$ or 10$. Only the Metalhawk one go for absurd amount because it's the only way to have the "G1 original" for cheap. Unfortunately, that demand have made the price of the Kabaya kit skyrocket.

If you want to buy some for yourself and try them out, look here:
https://order.mandarake.co.jp/order/lis ... rs&lang=en

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:52 am
by AllNewSuperRobot
:oops: Ohh...

In my defence, I've never seen what a G1 Pretender in a box looked like. #-o
My G1 knowledge is a fraction of my Beast Era knowhow, to be honest.

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 6:58 am
by -Kanrabat-
AllNewSuperRobot wrote::oops: Ohh...

In my defence, I've never seen what a G1 Pretender in a box looked like. #-o
My G1 knowledge is a fraction of my Beast Era knowhow, to be honest.


They come in box or on cards, depending of the release.
Also, if you have taken a look at all the pictures of the listing you have shown, you'd have noticed that something was off.

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:03 am
by AllNewSuperRobot
-Kanrabat- wrote:
AllNewSuperRobot wrote::oops: Ohh...

In my defence, I've never seen what a G1 Pretender in a box looked like. #-o
My G1 knowledge is a fraction of my Beast Era knowhow, to be honest.


They come in box or on cards, depending of the release.
Also, if you have taken a look at all the pictures of the listing you have shown, you'd have noticed that something was off.



To me, G1 boxes always look off. I thought that Metalhawk was just a normal 80's release.
When I started collecting on my own in the Beast Era, everything was nice and uniform. G1 was fractured and splintered between the various lines as well as country to country variants. I have a couple friends that talk to me about G1 boxes etc and it's all very confusing.

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:10 am
by ZeroWolf
The other reason the price for Metal Hawk is do high is sadly because of what he was made of. Him and Black Zarak may have been mass produced back in the day but GPS is fatal to them.

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:35 am
by -Kanrabat-
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:To me, G1 boxes always look off. I thought that Metalhawk was just a normal 80's release.
When I started collecting on my own in the Beast Era, everything was nice and uniform. G1 was fractured and splintered between the various lines as well as country to country variants. I have a couple friends that talk to me about G1 boxes etc and it's all very confusing.


The listing did show the content inside and you can see the unpainted parts on the unused sprue, still sealed in baggies.

Also, G1 lasted for 10 years and was released on 3 main continents. To make matter less confusing, "G1" should be split in at least 4 eras:
-- Diaclone repaints and re-releases (the true origins)
-- 1986 movie and Season 3 of the series
-- Victory Era
-- The "dying phase" that led to G2.

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:37 am
by -Kanrabat-
ZeroWolf wrote:The other reason the price for Metal Hawk is do high is sadly because of what he was made of. Him and Black Zarak may have been mass produced back in the day but GPS is fatal to them.


Fortunately, Metalhawk don't have any gold plastics. The chest of the bot is actual die-cast painted gold, making him the only pretender with die-cast. The shell is pure blue plastics that is painted.

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:42 am
by AllNewSuperRobot
-Kanrabat- wrote:The listing did show the content inside and you can see the unpainted parts on the unused sprue, still sealed in baggies.

Also, G1 lasted for 10 years and was released on 3 main continents. To make matter less confusing, "G1" should be split in at least 4 eras:
-- Diaclone repaints and re-releases (the true origins)
-- 1986 movie and Season 3 of the series
-- Victory Era
-- The "dying phase" that led to G2.


I saw the sprue and assumed that is what a MISB Pretender looked like. I only vaguely remember stickers being a thing with my original G1 Movie figures, my first TF toys, let alone what the later ones looked like. I think my last G1 figure was Triggerhappy. After the Original series ended, my brother and I got swept up in TMNT mania instead.

See, four eras is very confusing. But thanks for the clarification on that. ;)^

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:15 am
by -Kanrabat-
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
See, four eras is very confusing. But thanks for the clarification on that. ;)^


Not really.
Just think about everything transformers that came out in the last 10 years. Now lump all of that into the "G4" moniker.

Transformers Generation? G4
Transformers RID? G4
Cyberverse? G4
TLK, AOE, SS? G4 G4 G4.
Now THAT'S confusing.

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:17 am
by AllNewSuperRobot
Just as bad as their attempt to streamline everything with the "Aligned Continuity"...

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:07 am
by ZeroWolf
Does anyone ever use G3 or G4 though if one was to use that system M, I'd feel like the number would be higher

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 10:55 am
by -Kanrabat-
ZeroWolf wrote:Does anyone ever use G3 or G4 though if one was to use that system M, I'd feel like the number would be higher


Looking how much the styles and engineering change so fast, I think we could call that there's a new "generation" every 3 years.

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:19 am
by ZeroWolf
-Kanrabat- wrote:
ZeroWolf wrote:Does anyone ever use G3 or G4 though if one was to use that system M, I'd feel like the number would be higher


Looking how much the styles and engineering change so fast, I think we could call that there's a new "generation" every 3 years.

If my maths is right that's about G9 we'd be in, using that method which does sync up to some big changes like the movie line debuting in 2007, though would need some tweaking as Combiner Wars would be split between two different generations.

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 11:22 am
by AllNewSuperRobot
Well if each successive line of Transformers was it's own 'Generation', just from the original series alone we'd have been upto G4 (at least) by The Rebirth. After that it gets really messy...

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 12:47 pm
by ZeldaTheSwordsman
ZeroWolf wrote:They probably would, it's a matter of if the Japanese designers want to even do them. Afterall it was only the initial wave of Pretenders that featured in the cartoon (and then the pretender combiner and mega pretenders in the following years Victory anime) but if its a matter of popularity... That still leaves us with Metal Hawk.
It's not just that only the initial wave of Pretenders featured in the cartoon. It's that only the initial wave of 1988 Pretenders was released in Japan at all. The concept obviously was not a big hit, despite initial high hopes (as seen from Metalhawk existing and Grand Max getting a suit). And the 1989 toys that got imported, were retooled to remove their human bits and not treated as Pretenders at all. That said, Metalhawk still has a chance.

The problem with doing modern toys of the baseline Pretenders is that the robots took a hit on the size and complexity fronts (and in some cases, had to take pieces off) in order to be able to squeeze into the knockoff He-Man toys. And having to split apart to accommodate a robot toy inside perforce limited the articulation of the shells. In order to get around that while keeping to the traditional Pretender shell, they'd have to make either the shell so big or the robot so tiny that the robot could fit solely in the torso. That would be problematic, especially at the MP level.
Alternately, they could ditch the traditional shell design and have it work more like SIEGE Ultra Magnus' armor. That would allow for an articulated "disguise" without the big size issue.
They could also make the suit out of fabric and vinyl instead, turning it from a hard shell into a flexible costume that the robot could wear while still being able to move.

But personally, I think it would be best to abandon the "stuff a robot in a suit" gimmick altogether and have the shell just be an independent action figure. One that, in the case of human Pretenders, could be dressed up in different outfits. Because I don't call looking like a knockoff He-Man toy a very good human disguise.

I'll also say this: It's not just the Japanese fanbase who find the Pretenders to be of limited appeal.

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:22 pm
by ZeroWolf
I think you do offer up some better ideas there, even if the human mode was just clip on armour pieces that could be reassembled over a stand, like the Saint Seyia figures. Still they remain a distant chance of ever appearing.

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 3:35 pm
by -Kanrabat-
To be consistent and scale savvy, a MP Pretender could be made like this:

A MP Pretender would include all of this in the box on top of the usual accessories and face changes --->
-- Cartoon accurate robot that would be the size of your standard MP like Hound and Sideswipe.
-- A super detailed and articulated action figure of the shell. In "He-Man knock-off" armor for the humans and as themselves for the monsters. The action figure could not open at all and would be the same size as the robot.
-- Human pretenders would included two more figures. Both in normal civilian clothes and in armor. Such figures would be the same size as the Sam figures that came with the previous two MP Optimus.

Despite not having the core Pretender gimmick, we'd have kick-ass cartoon accurate figures that would be very posable. Also, I think the western cartoon and/or comics featured both the bot and their same size shells fighting alongside each others.

I guess only Thunderwing would be an exception to the rule. He'd be a super expensive figure the size of Optimus or even bigger. He'd still be able to store his mini-self inside because in the comics, Mini-Thunderwing was minibot sized if I remember.

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:06 pm
by Skritz
Honestly I'd like to see them attempt Pretenders proper with CHUG before ever even trying with Masterpiece. Not that MP will ever go as far as to make Pretenders because those are bottom of the barrel, with only a few fans of Masterforce and weirdoes-who-like-obscure-characters like me who genuinely like their design. I think they'd better off doing their inner robot at about the scale of a micro or battle master with a deluxe or voyager articulate shell.

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:12 pm
by -Kanrabat-
The micro Pretenders of the Power of the Primes lines were proof enough that there's love for them. But it was just a taste.
I'd be down to get some Generations Pretenders. The shell could be an articulated action figure without a waist swivel. They could be voyager sized with a "scout" sized inner robot. And ideally at the voyager price point.

But most likely they would be deluxe sized with a legion sized inner bot at the voyager price point.

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:18 pm
by Skritz
The POTP ones were too small. Yes, the scale for the shell was more accurate in relation to other figures (as there is usually mass shifting involved) but it wasn't exactly to the full gimmick, especially in an era of flat out remaking the G1 figure.

Re: The TF you want but you know HasTak will NEVER make

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 2:25 am
by SpikeyTigertron
Skritz wrote:Honestly I'd like to see them attempt Pretenders proper with CHUG before ever even trying with Masterpiece. Not that MP will ever go as far as to make Pretenders because those are bottom of the barrel, with only a few fans of Masterforce and weirdoes-who-like-obscure-characters like me who genuinely like their design. I think they'd better off doing their inner robot at about the scale of a micro or battle master with a deluxe or voyager articulate shell.


I do think the Mega Pretenders would work. https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Roadblock_(G1)

You'd have the titan master or micro master scale bot, that could sit inside the larger robot shell, that could also transform into a vehicle. Even if the inner bot worked more like a power master and was basically just a folded up cube inside. *Then* you'd still have the outer shell which could potentially have an alternate transformation as a battle station.