The Energon Pub

Posted: **Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:36 am**

MP Rodimus recently got restocked here in central Florida. I saw 8 on the shelf at a TRU yesterday and bought one (my second) to leave MISB.

I would put forth that anyone who is leaving their TFs MISB is doing so with some amount of thought given to it's future value. This isn't to say they're buying it solely in the hopes of making a profit some day mind you but if you look at the prices of MISB G1 TFs who wouldn't want to see that kind of value 30 years from now?

So like I said MP Rodimus has been restocked and truthfully I'd like to buy 2 more (for a total of 4, one opened and 3 left MISB) as an investment. Now I like to think of myself as considerate to my fellow collectors so I'm willing to wait a week or two to ensure that others have a shot at him.

No one likes a scalper, but at what point (if at all) would you make a differentiation between a scalper and an investor?

Some things that separate the two in my mind:

~quantity bought
~time span between when they buy and sell
~if they clean out the entire stock of a specific item

Anyone else have any thoughts on the matter?

Posted: **Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:58 am**

well, with so many rodimus (Rodimi?) that come out, I don't know If he'll be worth a whole lot in the future anyhow, I mean, there's quite few g1's and g2's that have been around for almost 30 years and cost less now then back in the day, that blue G2 truck (I have him right here and I forgot his name) Oh yeah, turbofire! He's like 10 bucks on eBay or somthing like that. Now MP Rodimus may be worth more in coming years, but IDK, I mean, wich will be worth more, the overstocked TRU Version? Or the Rdimus Prime from Japan?
ANYHOW, I think a scalper is a relentless prick. your at least giving the fans a chance here, so your not a prick (Just relentless :grin:

)

Posted: **Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:58 am**

I saw a guy at Walmart yesterday filling up two carts full of all of their Beyblades. He cleared out every single one. I don't know anything about these other than they are popular, but I couldn't help but have that "Gimmie a break" feeling even though I do not know why he was buying them all.

I think buying and reselling popular toys is an okay way to generate a fast little bit of extra money, but as far as a long term investment goes you should put investment funds into other things. Toys are just not a good investment.

Not buying them all out right away is a considerate move, but frankly MP Rodimus does not resell for enough right now to really justify the effort anyway.

Posted: **Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:12 am**

Lapse Of Reason wrote:I saw a guy at Walmart yesterday filling up two carts full of all of their Beyblades. He cleared out every single one. I don't know anything about these other than they are popular, but I couldn't help but have that "Gimmie a break" feeling even though I do not know why he was buying them all.

I think buying and reselling popular toys is an okay way to generate a fast little bit of extra money, but as far as a long term investment goes you should put investment funds into other things. Toys are just not a good investment.

Not buying them all out right away is a considerate move, but frankly MP Rodimus does not resell for enough right now to really justify the effort anyway.

Well I would disagree about toys value as an investment in a well diversified portfolio since not only am I buying them as an investment but I also receive enjoyment from having them which is an additional value. Regardless I'm not talking about selling them a few month or years from now.

Take a look at any popular G1 character on eBay that is MISB. The most recent G1 Starscream, MISB, sold for over $600. Now I don't know how much Starscream cost back in 1984 but even if it was $20 (which is probably high) that's a 3000% increase in value over 27 years. The Dow Jones by comparison is up only 1000% percent in the same span.

Bear in mind I'm not stockpiling massive amounts of Darkmount and Skullgrin here. I buy pretty much every TF that comes out because I love Transformers, but there are a select few here and there that I think will increase pretty substantially in value over the next two or three decades.

Posted: **Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:35 am**

FellintoOblivion wrote:...I also receive enjoyment from having them which is an additional value...

And that is what it should be about. Enjoyment. If you can make some money back on your hobby then more power to you.

I agree with:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... tml?cat=24

Posted: **Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:09 pm**

Im sure the MP line is worth a shot at investing in.. so are popular movie-verse figs like maybe a leader prime... if one comes out again for DOTM... since TF 4 is slated to be the last of the movie chronicles, people would go on ebay 25 years later and probably get the more "significant" characters of the movie-verse.

I guess if you buy too many rodimi you would be seen as a scalper cos the MPs are somewhat the "exclusives" ... while DOTM and classics are just "regualar releases" Although there are more rodimi in my TRU than leader sentinal. :lol:

Posted: **Thu Sep 08, 2011 4:58 pm**

To me, the difference between scalping and "investing" is what you do with it. For you to buy one to keep sealed for a bit, that's fine by me. It's the people who buy 20 in one go that are annoying, and it's the people who buy and immediately resell it at a jacked up price that are annoying.

Posted: **Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:54 pm**

I never have viewed my figures as an investment. I take them out of the box and play with them and display them, but I agree with the above comments about in-box collecting. I see nothing wrong with that, even if it's only to hold onto the figure and resell it when the value increases, but if doing that, then it is pretty screwed up to buy more than 1 or 2, especially with the limited availability and low production numbers modern figures seem to have (or maybe it's just because they're much more popular than they used to be).

This is why I love reissues. I don't collect for value, so getting a brand new reissue vs a vintage figure is a no-brainer for me, especially if the reissues is cheaper, and at the very least I don't have to worry about the condition of the figure, paint, stickers or yellowing (as long as it isn't an orange Optimus Prime "CURSE YOU HASBROOOOOOO!!!!!!!!"

).

Posted: **Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:55 pm**

WeatherManNX01 wrote:To me, the difference between scalping and "investing" is what you do with it. For you to buy one to keep sealed for a bit, that's fine by me. It's the people who buy 20 in one go that are annoying, and it's the people who buy and immediately resell it at a jacked up price that are annoying.

What he said.

Posted: **Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:20 pm**

I doubt there'd be much scalping thanks to the "Not recession" the USA is experiencing now.

Posted: **Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:42 pm**

its great if you want to make some money from them
although a compounded return on investment with TFs is a shot in the dark sometimes
can't argue with a 3000% return 30 years down the line though
you have to make the call on what you can afford to do and store

as far as scalping
clearing the shelves of a toy or line seems to be the demarcation line between scalping and investing to me

Posted: **Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:19 pm**

fenrir72 wrote:I doubt there'd be much scalping thanks to the "Not recession" the USA is experiencing now.

Disagree. Scalpers are scum, and they're going to ply their "trade" no matter what the economy is doing.

Posted: **Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:13 pm**

FellintoOblivion wrote:Well I would disagree about toys value as an investment in a well diversified portfolio since not only am I buying them as an investment but I also receive enjoyment from having them which is an additional value. Regardless I'm not talking about selling them a few month or years from now.

Take a look at any popular G1 character on eBay that is MISB. The most recent G1 Starscream, MISB, sold for over $600. Now I don't know how much Starscream cost back in 1984 but even if it was $20 (which is probably high) that's a 3000% increase in value over 27 years. The Dow Jones by comparison is up only 1000% percent in the same span.

Bear in mind I'm not stockpiling massive amounts of Darkmount and Skullgrin here. I buy pretty much every TF that comes out because I love Transformers, but there are a select few here and there that I think will increase pretty substantially in value over the next two or three decades.

I can almost guarantee you won't see that kind of increase in value with any of the new product. First, Transformers are at a peak in popularity...it's not overly likely Transformers will have the same appeal again in 20 years. Second, and probably more importantly, there are too many people with the same mindset buying and keeping figs MISB now. Part of the reason MISB G1 figs are so valuable is because they're so rare. For example, there might have been 1 for every 100 figures bought that were kept sealed back then, today it might be more like 25 for every 100. My numbers may be off, but the point remains...there are FAR more figs bought and kept MISB than once upon a time because they're thought of as collectables now instead of just toys.

Posted: **Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:19 am**

Yea, this looks a lot like the whole '90s comic collecting fiasco where everybody was buying comics to put into bags and sell for a fortune later, completely ignoring simple economics and the fact that Youngblood is not Batman/Superman/Spider-Man.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comic_book_collecting

Posted: **Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:04 am**

The reason why MISB G1 toys are so valuable is that they are rare. Hardly anyone in the 80's had a clue just how sought after they would be. These days buying several toys to keep them MISB for future resale at a vastly inflated price is so common you won't get anywhere near that sort of payback. Maybe your great-great-grandchildren would benefit though.

Posted: **Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:04 am**

Kibble wrote:
FellintoOblivion wrote:Well I would disagree about toys value as an investment in a well diversified portfolio since not only am I buying them as an investment but I also receive enjoyment from having them which is an additional value. Regardless I'm not talking about selling them a few month or years from now.

Take a look at any popular G1 character on eBay that is MISB. The most recent G1 Starscream, MISB, sold for over $600. Now I don't know how much Starscream cost back in 1984 but even if it was $20 (which is probably high) that's a 3000% increase in value over 27 years. The Dow Jones by comparison is up only 1000% percent in the same span.

Bear in mind I'm not stockpiling massive amounts of Darkmount and Skullgrin here. I buy pretty much every TF that comes out because I love Transformers, but there are a select few here and there that I think will increase pretty substantially in value over the next two or three decades.

I can almost guarantee you won't see that kind of increase in value with any of the new product. First, Transformers are at a peak in popularity...it's not overly likely Transformers will have the same appeal again in 20 years. Second, and probably more importantly, there are too many people with the same mindset buying and keeping figs MISB now. Part of the reason MISB G1 figs are so valuable is because they're so rare. For example, there might have been 1 for every 100 figures bought that were kept sealed back then, today it might be more like 25 for every 100. My numbers may be off, but the point remains...there are FAR more figs bought and kept MISB than once upon a time because they're thought of as collectables now instead of just toys.

Oh I'm sure very little being made today will ever reach the current value of G1 stuff and there are many reasons for it.

Posted: **Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:13 am**

Mykltron wrote:The reason why MISB G1 toys are so valuable is that they are rare. Hardly anyone in the 80's had a clue just how sought after they would be. These days buying several toys to keep them MISB for future resale at a vastly inflated price is so common you won't get anywhere near that sort of payback. Maybe your great-great-grandchildren would benefit though.

Even if there are more figures being kept MISB the population in the US alone is expected to rise by almost 100 million by 2045.

Will the increased demand from the increased population outpace the supply being currently hoarded?

Who knows but gambling is part of the fun of investing :p

Posted: **Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:02 am**

FellintoOblivion wrote:
Mykltron wrote:The reason why MISB G1 toys are so valuable is that they are rare. Hardly anyone in the 80's had a clue just how sought after they would be. These days buying several toys to keep them MISB for future resale at a vastly inflated price is so common you won't get anywhere near that sort of payback. Maybe your great-great-grandchildren would benefit though.

Even if there are more figures being kept MISB the population in the US alone is expected to rise by almost 100 million by 2045.

Will the increased demand from the increased population outpace the supply being currently hoarded?

Who knows but gambling is part of the fun of investing :p

I respect your efforts in trying to find a payoff in this, but the collector market is bashed to pieces. It is a good idea to go for the definitive representation of a character in hopes that a bigger better one wont be produced later. That helps ensure some value, but if you really wanted to invest in Rodimus Primes I would advise on getting the Japanese version for the same reasons stated.

Even so, I must agree with Mykletron despite your rebuttal. The best way to make any money on current collectibles is to sell them to impatient collectors, who must have their Grapple or Shockwave before they show up in discount stores, or get a better distribution. Pretty much the only buck made off TFs is a quick buck.

Posted: **Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:16 am**

Astronopolis wrote:Pretty much the only buck made off TFs is a quick buck.

I would disagree. There are toys from the first movie that have doubled in price and it's been 5 years.

Posted: **Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:42 am**

FellintoOblivion wrote:
Astronopolis wrote:Pretty much the only buck made off TFs is a quick buck.

I would disagree. There are toys from the first movie that have doubled in price and it's been 5 years.

while this may be true for some most are regular releases that are selling at or below retail prices. as far as investing id prefer my coin collection of silver and gold coins my silver proof set of all 50 states is worth more right now than my entire collection including 3rd party stuff. as far as scalping to me that only applies to those who buy in mass to resell immediately for an inflated price.they do that for 2 reasons 1)they know some collectors are so impatient they will gladly spend as much or more on mp hotrod than on mp-9 just for a dumb targetmaster 2)they are also aware that these figures will not always hold their value and so try to sell the stuff as fast as possible.

so my answer is no if you wait a while and give others a chance say 2-3 weeks and buy whats there to keep misb i dont think its scalping. but if you intend to resell right away then you are no better than the guy selling a case of hotrod's on ebay directly from the tru backroom. >:oP

Posted: **Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:25 am**

Posted: **Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:27 am**

[DECEASED] wrote:I've always been of the opinion that it doesn't matter what you label a process, it's the action of the process that truly matters. Sure, some may say frequency of action, motivation, and admiration of product play key roles in the differentiation. Yet, we act in the present, and for every toy you keep MISB, there's a kid out there saving allowance money for something he or she will never find on the shelf. There should be more to this community than just the present population and it's interests. If you really want to see the value of your collection skyrocket, allow these kids to form that same tactile connection for the cheapest dollar amount possible. Embrace them as they grow into this community. Perhaps, if we relent on our greed, the fandom would continue to thrive (waaay past the Bay era) become a better place for it. [/soapbox]

Hey now, I'm counting on that kid who missed out on all his favorite Transformers as a kid to try and recapture his lost youth when he's 40 and buy my stuff :p

Posted: **Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:32 am**

FellintoOblivion wrote:Hey now, I'm counting on that kid who missed out on all his favorite Transformers as a kid to try and recapture his lost youth when he's 40 and buy my stuff :p

I wonder why he missed out.

Posted: **Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:05 pm**

[DECEASED] wrote:
FellintoOblivion wrote:Hey now, I'm counting on that kid who missed out on all his favorite Transformers as a kid to try and recapture his lost youth when he's 40 and buy my stuff :p

^spoken like a true scalper

I wonder why he missed out.

The Energon Pub

Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing

Re: Transformers: Scalping versus investing