The Energon Pub

Don't get me wrong, I like it when ball joints are placed properly, like in the head, and maybe the elbows in some cases, but they wear out, especially on larger figures.

In my honest opinion, the larger figures should be engineered alot more like HFTD Seaspray, not a ball joint anywere, but holds together fine, with amazing posability.

I just want to know, you think we really need them? I think the larger figures could do without them. I hear PRiD Megatron's thigh joints are wearing out on everyone, and it worries me that this could be a big problem down the road.

I loves me some ball joints, but like you, I'm wary about them on larger figures (anything Voyager+), although, the really nice thing about them is that they're easy to fix/tighten up. When they start to wear out, they're not like ratchet joints or pin/hinge joints which are kinda tough (if even really possible) to fix. Ball joints you just put something in the space between the socket and the ball and you're all set. This can be paint, glue, or even a bit of tape or paper (I've used all of the above and all have worked quite nicely).

I'm a Beast Wars freak, so ball joints are a way of life for me (as well as maintaining them) in my collection. I prefer them to ratchets etc. which require a screwdriver and sometimes even replacement parts etc. to fix.

If a ball joint isn't straight up cracked/broken so that the ball can't sit at all in the socket any more, it's totally fixable.

Another great thing about them is that you can add articulation by cutting out bits of the sockets. I did this on all of my PRiD Vehicons' arms (including the Jet Vehicons) and now, with a bit of rotation into different positioning, the hinge is the elbow joint and the ball joint is just what connects the forearm to the bicep. Cutting away some of the socket allowed me to straigten out the forearms making them look much better.

can't say I've had many problems with them, unless they've already been loose when I've got the figure out of the package and can't think of a specific example of that right now. I have PRID Megs and no issues there so far.

In general, I'd rather have ratchets on Voyagers, but as xyl360 mentioned, you can ALWAYS tighten a ball joint. For me, Mindwipe is a great example of nigh-perfect joint engineering for larger figures.

But that said, I'll never really complain about ball joints. They aren't perfect, but nothing is, and the positives FAR outweight the negatives.

They're great when used properly. The problem is they're being put where they shouldn't be. I think hasbro has been using them more lately as part of the "give less figure for more money" business model they're using. Did voyager figures ever have ball jointed hips before PRiD? They can't support much weight and it's showing on the PRiD voyagers.

RAcast wrote:For me, Mindwipe is a great example of nigh-perfect joint engineering for larger figures.

Except the ankles, they crack VERY easily.

Evil_the_Nub wrote:They're great when used properly. The problem is they're being put where they shouldn't be. I think hasbro has been using them more lately as part of the "give less figure for more money" business model they're using. Did voyager figures ever have ball jointed hips before PRiD? They can't support much weight and it's showing on the PRiD voyagers.

RAcast wrote:For me, Mindwipe is a great example of nigh-perfect joint engineering for larger figures.

Except the ankles, they crack VERY easily.

True about the ankles, a bit of an oversight there.

The original Optimus Primal had ball jointed hips, but they're ridiculously hefty.

RAcast wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:They're great when used properly. The problem is they're being put where they shouldn't be. I think hasbro has been using them more lately as part of the "give less figure for more money" business model they're using. Did voyager figures ever have ball jointed hips before PRiD? They can't support much weight and it's showing on the PRiD voyagers.

RAcast wrote:For me, Mindwipe is a great example of nigh-perfect joint engineering for larger figures.

Except the ankles, they crack VERY easily.

True about the ankles, a bit of an oversight there.

The original Optimus Primal had ball jointed hips, but they're ridiculously hefty.

One must also take into account quality of plastic. Beast Wars is a superior grade than many of Hasbro's newer offerings, on the larget figures at least.

I personally feel that balljoints suck eggs. If I buy a figure, I want it to be good. PRID Megatron is horrible straight out of the package, flimsy limbs. Same with Optimus and even the deluxes are *ss. In sort- I only want pin hinges or ratchet joints in the leg area.

Yes, balljoints are fixable. But they also require more fixing than other joints. Sure adults can fix these issues, but as I've said a thousand times before... Kids are the target audience, they should be able to play with new toys, not fix them. Or at least have them standing upright, PRID MEGATRON!

I've had as much trouble with loose non-ball joints as loose ball-joints. Ball joints are usually easier to fix.

I dont think ball joints are bad for deluxe figures. For the amount of figure I have and out of that I really only had to do the nail polish to a few which I dont think is bad, but above deluxe they need the good old clickety, click, click.

Ball joints aren't bad, if they are in the right area. But if they are on a massive figure, and in an area that supports a lot of weight and movement, then your doing it wrong. I'm just saying, I don't want my Prime Megatron (Whenever the hell I decide on which one I truly want) to be all floppy and useless.
That's what she said

Agree with the consensuson here - ball-joints are great on scout/deluxe figs but for Voyagers and above you need ratchets on the shoulders, hips (a must) and double hinge knees. That's why my Classics Prime is still rocking and FOC Deluxe Prime is already rolling in the hip and ankles dept.

But articulation is still a MUSt to maintain in these days of lowering standards so rather Balls than none.

I could have phrased that better......

Motorthing wrote:But articulation is still a MUSt to maintain in these days of lowering standards so rather Balls than none.

I could have phrased that better......

I think you phrased it perfectly.

Neither joints are perfect. Ball joints can be loose and slip and ratcheted joints often don't have the fine adjustment you need to get a natural looking stance, legs either together, doing the splits or that one position in between.

What we need is something halfway between the two, like those Revoltech joints.

Mykltron wrote:

Motorthing wrote:But articulation is still a MUSt to maintain in these days of lowering standards so rather Balls than none.

I could have phrased that better......

I think you phrased it perfectly.

In a prison sort of way.

Ravage XK wrote:Neither joints are perfect. Ball joints can be loose and slip and ratcheted joints often don't have the fine adjustment you need to get a natural looking stance, legs either together, doing the splits or that one position in between.

What we need is something halfway between the two, like those Revoltech joints.

Revoltech joints are ratchet joints that look like ball joints. I don't like them.

I love the sound and tactile feedback that a ratchet joint brings. It just smacks of quality every time! I agree that voyagers and up should have them rather than ball joints, especially on the hips/knees. IMO the 'floppiest' voyagers I have are the Universe Inferno moulds which are ridiculous around the hips - I can't remember if they are ball-jointed or not though. They should have been ratcheted.

Banjo-Tron wrote:I love the sound and tactile feedback that a ratchet joint brings. It just smacks of quality every time! I agree that voyagers and up should have them rather than ball joints, especially on the hips/knees. IMO the 'floppiest' voyagers I have are the Universe Inferno moulds which are ridiculous around the hips - I can't remember if they are ball-jointed or not though. They should have been ratcheted.

They aren't ball joints but I can see why that joint would have problems for some.

No, we don't need ball joints.

Take a look at one of my favorite figures, Generations War For Cybertron Megatron.

He doesn't have a single ball joint on him. He stands firm, is poseable, and has a simple yet satisfying transformation that is impossible to get wrong if you've ever played with Transformers before.

A figure without ball joints tabs together better when transformed, from what I've seen of ball-less figures.

Flakmaster wrote:No, we don't need ball joints.

Take a look at one of my favorite figures, Generations War For Cybertron Megatron.

He doesn't have a single ball joint on him. He stands firm, is poseable, and has a simple yet satisfying transformation that is impossible to get wrong if you've ever played with Transformers before.

A figure without ball joints tabs together better when transformed, from what I've seen of ball-less figures.

It took me a while to figure out WFC Megs tank treads, since I'd assumed the hands folded inside the forearms which then clipped back together and stayed like that in vehicle mode. Like they do in about a bajillion other TFs. The way those are in the actual transformation is slightly monstrous and halfassed, so didn't immediately stand out. Sort of agree about the joints though. Only problem is he's not quite as good at getting into a varied number of good poses as some figures which do have ball joints.

Definitely agree about ball-less figures tabbing together better though.

I thought Revoltech joints were patented? They look better on more organic, rounded things anyway.

More to the point, though.

Ravage XK wrote:What we need is something halfway between the two

The way that Revoltech joints work would likely work well with TFs, but again, it would be a case of being implemented properly. Like, that particular joint would do good at the shoulder, joining the arm to the body, but would probably wear out if it was placed on the thigh, were it needs to hold the figure up.

Ball joints are fine, just so long as they are in the right place. The head, and the elbows often work properly enough, but thighs and feet and knees and the like need to stop, otherwise the stability of figures will go down dramatically over time.

Flakmaster wrote:No, we don't need ball joints.

Take a look at one of my favorite figures, Generations War For Cybertron Megatron.

He doesn't have a single ball joint on him. He stands firm, is poseable, and has a simple yet satisfying transformation that is impossible to get wrong if you've ever played with Transformers before.

A figure without ball joints tabs together better when transformed, from what I've seen of ball-less figures.

And he has huge, massive, boat sized clown feet. Of course WFC Megs is stable. That has nothing to do with his joints (no ratchets in there, just swivels, which are just as frequently loose and floppy as ball joints).

Clicky ratchet joints tend to be the most stable, but my gripe with them is that they often don't click/lock just where I want them to in order for them to be useful for actual poses. I get the option of the legs so close together that they're touching or a robot doing the splits. Ball joints (and the aforementioned swivel joints without ratchets) allow for much better posing, though both tend to be less stable if they can't support the weight or if they wear out. That's why I prefer ball joints because even if it is floppy, I can easily fix it. The same cannot be said for swivel joints (like Megatron's) or ratchet joints.