The Energon Pub

why is there are such vast differences in the paint apps and quality control between Japanes ? American toys. why is it that Japan usuallyhas better and more paint apps, and less problems. look at mp-10 Hasbro and Hasbro thundercracker. if you look at thund4rcracker a vast amount of them do not keep the center section locked leaving you with a sloppy figure, but takara Starscream of the same mold rocks. Hasbro optimus prime (i have 2) is riddled with QC issues, takara (i also have 2) has no issues ive seen.

why is that america is so shotty with Paint apps and general over all crappy quality? Its not just these toys though, america's quality has been slipping for years... id love everyones thoughts on this and things related to it... and if there is anything as fans we can do?

This has been covered many times before, sorry but ive not got time to find the link.
But the short answer is Hasbro is the USA side of things while Takara are the Japan end of things. Two different companies, so thats where the differences come from, but of course it's not as straight forward as that.

Different market, different buying habits,different culture.

fenrir72 wrote:Different market, different buying habits,different culture.

Bingo. In Japan, Takara must compete on the shelves with the likes of companies like Bandai, who don't slouch on quality or paint apps. Their 'toys' look a lot nicer than what we've grown accustomed to from Hasbro (and other toy makers) in the US.

Japan is a collectors' market, so they expect more. US toy companies for the most part still seem to think that only/mostly children buy toys. Of course, you pay a higher price for a figure in Japan than you do in the US I believe, so price is certainly a major factor as well.

Takara's Prime figures feature fewer paint apps than Hasbro's.

I don't believe there's a substantial overall difference in quality. You may have seen differences in a few figures you've bought, but that's anecdotal evidence at best.

And then there's everything xyl360 said above.

mp-10 hasbro may have a few more paint apps... big deal..1 i have the leg panel wont stay connected in robot mode... the other is so misaligned i cant really transform him. my takara versions are perfect. the point i am trying to make is the us used to be the best manufacturing on the planet, now we dont come anywhere close to being top dog. i personally dont mind if the raise the price a bit if it is to better a figure, not to be greedy money whores.

GuyIncognito wrote:Takara's Prime figures feature fewer paint apps than Hasbro's.

Yep, and I think that's because in Japan they're still really into model kits and such. That's why they have the Arms Microns (and we don't) and they have stickers. With such small/cheapy looking toys, it makes sense to get the bang for your buck by getting a model kit to build instead of a malnourished Deluxe .

Of course, then there's their Generations offerings. I thought for certain that with the way things have been going, Takara might at best do a few minor paint mods to the FoC figures. I was way wrong. They put tons of paint onto the ones I've seen so far. They really do look like collectors' items for what they are.

Now, as for MP-10, I have the Takara version, I don't have the Hasbro version, but I've seen picture comparisons and video comparisons aplenty and aside from some of the colors (and the yellow paint on the lights on the top of the cab), I see no real difference. My Takara version has a leg panel on the front that doesn't like to stay in place unless I get it just right, and it usually takes several tries. It's a common issue, not one limited to the Hasbro release. Honestly, I'm shocked that Hasbro was able to release it as complete as it was and for the price that they did. MP-10 is one of the few imports in a really long time that I think Hasbro got right. Hopefully we'll see more like this in the future.

Hasbro uses Takara's molds, the original G1 figures say Takara Hasbro on them, somewhere down the line Hasbro separated from Takara (or vice versa) but Hasbro still uses all of their molds. You won't see a Hasbro figure/mold that's not also produced exclusively by Takara in Japan. With that said, all of the molds/figures should operate the same, but you're going to see massive amounts of redeco's, i.e. Takara Nemesis Prime (AM) vs. Takara Dark Guard Prime vs. Hasbro Optimus Prime (Voyager - Prime line) vs. Takara Optimus Prime (AM) and so on, and so on. But all of those figures are built from the same mold just look different. As someone pointed out above, Takara uses much less paint on their figures than Hasbro. Takara still uses the old school method on many of their figures which is stickers. I do like some of the Hasbro figures better because of this. I really think the whole fascination behind Takara products is two fold: the rarity and the exclusive figures that Hasbro might not offer, i.e. AM-19 Gaia Unicron. Hasbro still doesn't have a "Prime" Unicron and might not, so that's why I ordered it from Takara. I may be wrong on some of the above points, but that's how I see it! Anyway, hope this helps!

slimjim0 wrote:Hasbro uses Takara's molds, the original G1 figures say Takara Hasbro on them, somewhere down the line Hasbro separated from Takara (or vice versa) but Hasbro still uses all of their molds. You won't see a Hasbro figure/mold that's not also produced exclusively by Takara in Japan.

You sure about all that? I think you've got some misinformation. Hasbro never separated from Takara (or vice versa); they were never "together" in the first place. I'm pretty sure that Hasbro designs some of the molds themselves. And I think the reason G1 molds said "Takara Hasbro" was because the two companies were sharing the license, not because they were one company.

slimjim0 wrote:Hasbro uses Takara's molds,

Hasbro used Takara's molds. Takara uses Hasbro's molds in FoC & Prime.

You won't see a Hasbro figure/mold that's not also produced exclusively by Takara in Japan.

Meanwhile, Prime and FoC figures were released here first.

Look on the back of your FOC figures, or any Hasbro figure for that matter, and it will say "Manufactured under license from TOMY Company, Ltd." AKA Takara/TOMY.

slimjim0 wrote:Hasbro uses Takara's molds, the original G1 figures say Takara Hasbro on them, somewhere down the line Hasbro separated from Takara (or vice versa) but Hasbro still uses all of their molds. You won't see a Hasbro figure/mold that's not also produced exclusively by Takara in Japan. With that said, all of the molds/figures should operate the same, but you're going to see massive amounts of redeco's, i.e. Takara Nemesis Prime (AM) vs. Takara Dark Guard Prime vs. Hasbro Optimus Prime (Voyager - Prime line) vs. Takara Optimus Prime (AM) and so on, and so on. But all of those figures are built from the same mold just look different. As someone pointed out above, Takara uses much less paint on their figures than Hasbro. Takara still uses the old school method on many of their figures which is stickers. I do like some of the Hasbro figures better because of this. I really think the whole fascination behind Takara products is two fold: the rarity and the exclusive figures that Hasbro might not offer, i.e. AM-19 Gaia Unicron. Hasbro still doesn't have a "Prime" Unicron and might not, so that's why I ordered it from Takara. I may be wrong on some of the above points, but that's how I see it! Anyway, hope this helps!

I'm afraid you have it backwards my friend. Hasbro owns the Transformers Brand and does most of the design work. Takara is utilized for their production facilities and are brought in every now and then to assist in the design process. This is why you don't see a figure released in Japan until after it sees release in the US - Hasbro gets first crack at the mold.

There are exceptions of course, such as the PRID Breakdown mold, which didn't meet toy laws in North America and thus could not be used, and the Masterpiece line, which Takara designs on their own with blessings from Hasbro.

And also, in the 80's when Transformers first hit the shelves in the U.S. Hasbro could not figure out how to design their own figures because of the intricacy of the parts. That's why they hired Takara to do all of them. Hasbro concocted Transformers after one of their guys returned from a business trip in Japan and saw all of these amazing transforming figures without a storyline. That's when Hasbro decided to breath life into them (good vs. evil) and design the cartoon, comic books and toys. Check out the documentary in DVD deluxe box set for the complete first 4 seasons of G1 Transformers. Hasbro had the idea for Transformers and Takara was already designing the toys. The success of Transformers was so fast and immense that they couldn't waste time trying to create their own. The first set of Transformers (G1 Starscream, Skywarp, Thundercracker for instance) were already existing molds/toys in Japan. Hasbro picked a handful of existing toys from Takara for "good and evil" and began designing the comic book and cartoon around them. That's why all three seekers were the same with different decos, to get it out fast.

And straight from the horse's mouth (Hasbro), they just said that "TOMY is the originator of the molds". Just got off the phone with them, no sh*t.

slimjim0 wrote:And straight from the horse's mouth (Hasbro), they just said that "TOMY is the originator of the molds". Just got off the phone with them, no sh*t.

Sure you did.

slimjim0 wrote:And also, in the 80's when Transformers first hit the shelves in the U.S. Hasbro could not figure out how to design their own figures because of the intricacy of the parts. That's why they hired Takara to do all of them. Hasbro concocted Transformers after one of their guys returned from a business trip in Japan and saw all of these amazing transforming figures without a storyline. That's when Hasbro decided to breath life into them (good vs. evil) and design the cartoon, comic books and toys. Check out the documentary in DVD deluxe box set for the complete first 4 seasons of G1 Transformers. Hasbro had the idea for Transformers and Takara was already designing the toys. The success of Transformers was so fast and immense that they couldn't waste time trying to create their own. The first set of Transformers (G1 Starscream, Skywarp, Thundercracker for instance) were already existing molds/toys in Japan. Hasbro picked a handful of existing toys from Takara for "good and evil" and began designing the comic book and cartoon around them. That's why all three seekers were the same with different decos, to get it out fast.

That part's accurate. The microman series was an ok seller in Japan at the time, but it wasn't going anywhere. Hasbro invented the brand/storyline around them and made them into huge sellers. The rest is 39 years of history.

And straight from the horse's mouth (Hasbro), they just said that "TOMY is the originator of the molds". Just got off the phone with them, no sh*t.

Oh? Who'd you talk to?

Hugh G. Rection, I have no idea some rep, call 800-255-5516. She spoke to a supervisor and then looked up some stuff on their "intranet". But, I'm not blowing smoke that was directly from them. This has always been the case. Hasbro outsources like crazy, they don't do any of their own sh*t. Not saying it's a bad thing.

And in response to the Breakdown and Unicron molds, why would Hasbro waste their time making those two molds exclusively for Takara/TOMY and never release them here? We outsource everything to them. If Hasbro proposed that to them they would laugh in their face. They can bang those out in their sleep for a fraction of the cost. Exactly why Hasbro outsources to them and they are the "originators" of the molds.

I just got off the phone with the President of Hasbro and he said "I design all the molds myself. Say 'Hi' to slimjim0 for me!"

GuyIncognito wrote:

slimjim0 wrote:And straight from the horse's mouth (Hasbro), they just said that "TOMY is the originator of the molds". Just got off the phone with them, no sh*t.

Sure you did.

Maybe you missed this above:

Look on the back of your FOC figures, or any Hasbro figure for that matter, and it will say "Manufactured under license from TOMY Company, Ltd." AKA Takara/TOMY.

GuyIncognito wrote:I just got off the phone with the President of Hasbro and he said "I design all the molds myself. Say 'Hi' to slimjim0 for me!"

That's funny, because I just talked to him and he said, "I can't believe GuyIncognito has been a member since 2007 and doesn't know this sh*t already!"

slimjim0 wrote:

GuyIncognito wrote:

slimjim0 wrote:And straight from the horse's mouth (Hasbro), they just said that "TOMY is the originator of the molds". Just got off the phone with them, no sh*t.

Sure you did.

Maybe you missed this above:

Look on the back of your FOC figures, or any Hasbro figure for that matter, and it will say "Manufactured under license from TOMY Company, Ltd." AKA Takara/TOMY.

So you confirm my initial statement that Hasbro uses Takara for its production capabilities. It says nothing there about who designed the thing to begin with, only who pumps them out.

It says manufactured under their license = Hasbro manufactures them and TOMY allows them to.

Just stop already. You don't even know what you're talking about. We already established that when you claimed that Hasbro and Takara used to be one company and then split into two.

GuyIncognito wrote:Just stop already. You don't even know what you're talking about.

And you do, right? I don't see you defending yourself or adding anything valuable to this conversation at all. Well done.

He's right about the G1 Transformers being Japan's molds, but not all were from Takara-TOMY. For example, Jetfire was a mold from the Macross line by Takatoku Toys.

PrymeStriker wrote:He's right about the G1 Transformers being Japan's molds, but not all were from Takara-TOMY. For example, Jetfire was a mold from the Macross line by Takatoku Toys.

That's true, my bad. Jetfire/Skyfire was an oddball.