The Energon Pub

It seems to me that Takara Tomy has decided to make Masterpiece the new Classics line. I wonder if this is their response to all the 3rd party figures. Most 3rd party figures are designed to fit into the Neo-Classics line and cost a premium. Perhaps Takara Tomy has been keeping an eye on this trend and thought, "Hey if they want updated G1 characters and their willing to drop 100.00 a piece on them we can oblige!" The way things are going I see my MP shelf quickly gaining ground on my Neo-Classics.

I won't be surprised at all if that's actually the case. 3rd party companies have been going from strength to strength and proving that there's actually a substantial demand for characters that HasTak has deemed either too high-cost (in Hasbro's case) or too unpopular (in Takara's case) to make.

While Hasbro might not be too concerned by this since adult collectible TF's aren't their primary market, Takara might want that piece of their pie back.

El Duque wrote:The way things are going I see my MP shelf quickly gaining ground on my Neo-Classics.

At least yours have a shelf.

Mine are currently on top of the bookcases and are yelling "YOU'RE GONNA NEED TO FIND SOME MORE ROOM FOR US!!!!!"

Bye bye movie toys I think.

I only buy domestic released MPs, and even then I'm simply not that interested in them. They just don't fulfill the same role the classics, generations, w/e do, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Shame if it is - no room, not enough money, no room, not enough money, no room.

Oh well, more for everyone else, I suppose.

Shadowstream wrote:I only buy domestic released MPs, and even then I'm simply not that interested in them. They just don't fulfill the same role the classics, generations, w/e do, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Really?!

For me, besides space concerns, MPs cost an arm and a leg sure no one forces me to get'em but dang! To think Tomy Takaras' MP line is kind of cheaps when compared to Bandai's SOCs

Even though the Car MP's are strangely alluring, two things are preventing me from getting into them: pricing and the fact they're more "Collector's Items" and not really meant to be toys, you know? I want to fiddle with my figure without fear of breaking them.

Not suggesting that the current Generations will/should go away at all, but I think Takara Tomy may have finally realized the value of a full blown collectors line focusing primarily on G1. And I think one of the main reasons behind it is the 3rd party movement, and the prices we've been willing to shell out for those figures.

Va'al wrote:Shame if it is - no room, not enough money, no room, not enough money, no room.

Oh well, more for everyone else, I suppose.

yeah im in the same boat. MP 10 was my first one but i dont want it to be the last. i plan on getting MP soundwave and i will probably hunt down a MP starscream.

As long as Masterpieces cost $80+, I'll be sticking with Deluxe Classics. For me, MPs are a rare purchase. I can't afford to build a collection of MPs.

GuyIncognito wrote:As long as Masterpieces cost $80+, I'll be sticking with Deluxe Classics. For me, MPs are a rare purchase. I can't afford to build a collection of MPs.

Yeah, I only buy the MPs I absolutely have to own. Optimus, Grimlock, Starscream (Coronation gear... it was too beautiful!), and Soundwave adorn my shelves, and I'll be buying Soundwave's US release thereafter instead of dropping roughly the same amount of money to get the Takara cassettes. Money is always a factor, and a $16 deluxe, even with its lack of paint or chrome metal, is always easier to consider, especially as an impulse buy.

For my money, my CHUG line will always be the focus of my collection; the stuff I take off the shelf and bash together, and the MPs will be the rare collector items I never, ever play with.

El Duque wrote:Not suggesting that the current Generations will/should go away at all, but I think Takara Tomy may have finally realized the value of a full blown collectors line focusing primarily on G1. And I think one of the main reasons behind it is the 3rd party movement, and the prices we've been willing to shell out for those figures.

Yep, I think you hit the nail on the head right there.

I disagree with the use of Classics in this comparison. I do agree that Takara is finally monopolizing on the G1 collector fan-base, since by now anyone who grew up in the 80's is now in their 30s most likely with disposable income and a desire to see their favourite characters as they remember them. I fully support the decision and look forward to seeing where it goes, even if I don't buy them.

The term Classics, to me, has always been modernizing the character's designs to attract a new generation of fans, or possibly re-ignite the spirit of wayward fans. In all honesty I prefer this method to the MP method. Both Classics and MPs have their place in the fan-base, but I prefer Classics.

El Duque wrote:Not suggesting that the current Generations will/should go away at all, but I think Takara Tomy may have finally realized the value of a full blown collectors line focusing primarily on G1. And I think one of the main reasons behind it is the 3rd party movement, and the prices we've been willing to shell out for those figures.

Oh right, sorry, misread your post!

Then yes, I'd agree on that. It's nice to see that there is more thought behind how to cater to the smaller part of their target audience.

Generations seems to be moving more towards the other branches of the franchise, with the videogames and comics in mind, for the most part. I'll be curious to see what'll happen once the next live-action film comes out.

El Duque wrote:Not suggesting that the current Generations will/should go away at all, but I think Takara Tomy may have finally realized the value of a full blown collectors line focusing primarily on G1. And I think one of the main reasons behind it is the 3rd party movement, and the prices we've been willing to shell out for those figures.

So then.....it would stand to reason that all of us who are super excited for these awesome MP releases, at least in part, have the 3rd party companys AND the buyers of these 3rd party products to thank.

Shunning the 3rd party companies and their products only stands to help support or create HasTak's monopoly on transforming robot toys, which would enable them to get lazy, and cheap.

Are you saying the third party companies present a little competition which is healthy?

JackStraw wrote:Are you saying the third party companies present a little competition which is healthy?

Absolutely, I've always loved the 3rd party stuff. If it makes Has/Tak rethink some of their strategies that in turn gives us better figures that just a fortunate side effect.

El Duque wrote:

JackStraw wrote:Are you saying the third party companies present a little competition which is healthy?

Absolutely, I've always loved the 3rd party stuff. If it makes Has/Tak rethink some of their strategies that in turn gives us better figures that just a fortunate side effect.

If that's the case, then it's certainly working. Even Hasbro's been bringing their A game with that Christmas list's worth of awesome releases in the Generations line.

fenrir72 wrote:

Shadowstream wrote:I only buy domestic released MPs, and even then I'm simply not that interested in them. They just don't fulfill the same role the classics, generations, w/e do, at least as far as I'm concerned.

Really?!

Yes, really. See Mkall's post to get the gist of my feelings on the matter.

at this moment i am only collecting masterpieces, they are the only ones worth the money charged for them... i know some people genuinely dont like them, but i think a large portion of those people say that cause they cant afford them.

They are indeed the new 'Classics' for me in the sense that they are the best, articulated versions of the G1 characters.

As others have mentioned, Classics/Generations to me has never been about having G1 accurate versions of the characters (which is why I have never minded the differences in alt modes and bot modes compared to G1 fiction and why I can never understand those who do, yet have a Classics/Henkei Optimus Prime on their shelves ).

The MP line is now my primary line for collecting. I pretty much decided today (after finally preordering both Bluestreak and Prowl after previously only desiring to get Smokescreen) that I will not only collect this line, but I will likely get every one that Takara releases (and yes, I am skipping the Hasbro releases unless they do something like release a character that Takara doesn't, like they did with the recent Thundercracker etc.).

MPs aren't just a once in a while kind of massive G1 nod any more, they're the most accurate, perfect versions of these characters that we have ever gotten from anyone (3rd parties included) so I'm all in.

Takara, take my money.

That Prowl and Bluestreak look downright gorgeous! As were the recent Lambo, Prime, and Soundwave releases.

This is definitely the new classics to me. Similar to the Masters of the Universe classics line. New modern versions of the old characters without any change to the original aesthetic. Just perfect. For a classics line, I'm not into updating or changing or deviating from the originals in terms of aesthetic. That can be saved for lines like Prime, Beast Hunters, FOC etc...

For me so far. Grimlock is the only one and could be my only one. If Takara really goes down to G1 characters, I fear there will be a lot of repaints. Well, already there. See the Starscream mold, Sideswipe mold, and Prowl already has other two repaints. If we are going down with a lot of repaints down the road, I will still go with classics. Smaller, cheaper. Hey! I didn't even own classics/universe Smokescreen and Silver(Blue)streak because they are repaints from that Prowl mold.

I just wanted to add to this thread, MP Prowl and Bluestreak are only going to be 50$ USD in Japan. So in Reality, Tak is making joke to the fact people are paying 60-70, even 80 for the same size figs, that are not as detailed by 3P companies.

I have no problem paying 50-60$ a piece of perfect scale G1 classic's/Masterpiece figures. None at all! especially if they are all in the Glorious Classic 80's sports cars to mad me love G1. I hope they continue pounding us every year, it keeps me from buying the other crap lines that end up just getting traded away.

El Duque wrote:Not suggesting that the current Generations will/should go away at all, but I think Takara Tomy may have finally realized the value of a full blown collectors line focusing primarily on G1. And I think one of the main reasons behind it is the 3rd party movement, and the prices we've been willing to shell out for those figures.

Actually I think you've missed something far closer to home.

At retail: 2xVoyager(@$23)+3xDeluxes(@$13)=$85
At Botcon: 2xVoyager+3xdeluxes=$365

Of course that's forgetting about how prices for them skyrocket on the secondary market.

Other examples which come to mind are club exclusives which would retail at $13 in the US, but are sold exclusively by the club for $40.

If you want evidence of Hasbro witnessing fans paying crazy prices for Tfs, then look no further than 18 years of Botcons.

Mkall wrote:I disagree with the use of Classics in this comparison. I do agree that Takara is finally monopolizing on the G1 collector fan-base, since by now anyone who grew up in the 80's is now in their 30s most likely with disposable income and a desire to see their favourite characters as they remember them. I fully support the decision and look forward to seeing where it goes, even if I don't buy them.

The term Classics, to me, has always been modernizing the character's designs to attract a new generation of fans, or possibly re-ignite the spirit of wayward fans. In all honesty I prefer this method to the MP method. Both Classics and MPs have their place in the fan-base, but I prefer Classics.

Except that the problem with your argument is that the market demographics for Hasbro and Takara are fundamentally different. The big difference here is that when it comes to the Masterpiece line, Hasbro isn't involved and so Hasbro's marketting demographics are irrelevant to the line. Sure, Hasbro releases the odd piece, but it's merely to cash in in select cases on adult collectors, and in very limited reruns of existing moulds which Takara have already developed.

Here's the thing. Classics was essentially about producing a viable G1 based line for both Hasbro and Takara - who have very different markets. With Transformers, Takara's bread and butter are adults, while with Hasbro, it's kids (and parents buying for kids). As such there was a need not only for hyper articulation, but also for more modernised alt modes so that kids could have the same experience that adult fans had as kids (as well as circumventing the need for licensing)- whilst building them to that price point. Takara meanwhile were still able to sell the line on the grounds of using G1 characters. As such Classics was more of a compromise move on the part of Takara than of Hasbro, but one still workable for Hasbro.

I'd actually argue that the Masterpiece line has gone from a BT companion line of 4 different moulds, to a modernised redux of G1 designs, marketed with adult safety standards in mind (eg Red Alert's short circuit piece) and at an adult price point. As such I'd go so far as to suggest that it's what the Classics line would have originally been, had Hasbro's market demographics not been a determining factor.

JackStraw wrote:Shunning the 3rd party companies and their products only stands to help support or create HasTak's monopoly on transforming robot toys, which would enable them to get lazy, and cheap.

Except that this argument is a complete prima facie. It would be one thing if 3rd party companies were producing original character designs. Except they aren't - they're stealing designs they have no right to and have not paid licensing to use. These guys aren't some kind of Robin Hood; they're petty thieves- pure and simple and will be until they start entering into licensing agreements with Hasbro. Period.

Before anyone says that we have a right to certain characters- you're wrong. Until some fan or group of fans buys the IP for a specific character or group of characters, then no, none of us have a right to any specific character being produced by Takara or Hasbro. We might desperately wish and hope for certain characters- but that's all we're actually entitled to. Any claims to the contrary are going into "Veruca Salt" territory - as unpopular as saying that might be.

RodimalToyota wrote:I just wanted to add to this thread, MP Prowl and Bluestreak are only going to be 50$ USD in Japan. So in Reality, Tak is making joke to the fact people are paying 60-70, even 80 for the same size figs, that are not as detailed by 3P companies.

I have no problem paying 50-60$ a piece of perfect scale G1 classic's/Masterpiece figures. None at all! especially if they are all in the Glorious Classic 80's sports cars to mad me love G1. I hope they continue pounding us every year, it keeps me from buying the other crap lines that end up just getting traded away.

^This. I love the line in its entirety and tbh I love that it's showing up the thieves who run 3rd Party companies big time. My problem is that they're kicking it right into high gear right when I'm meant to be saving up for my wedding

Bowspearer wrote:

Mkall wrote:I disagree with the use of Classics in this comparison. I do agree that Takara is finally monopolizing on the G1 collector fan-base, since by now anyone who grew up in the 80's is now in their 30s most likely with disposable income and a desire to see their favourite characters as they remember them. I fully support the decision and look forward to seeing where it goes, even if I don't buy them.

The term Classics, to me, has always been modernizing the character's designs to attract a new generation of fans, or possibly re-ignite the spirit of wayward fans. In all honesty I prefer this method to the MP method. Both Classics and MPs have their place in the fan-base, but I prefer Classics.

Except that the problem with your argument is that the market demographics for Hasbro and Takara are fundamentally different. The big difference here is that when it comes to the Masterpiece line, Hasbro isn't involved and so Hasbro's marketting demographics are irrelevant to the line. Sure, Hasbro releases the odd piece, but it's merely to cash in in select cases on adult collectors, and in very limited reruns of existing moulds which Takara have already developed.

Here's the thing. Classics was essentially about producing a viable G1 based line for both Hasbro and Takara - who have very different markets. With Transformers, Takara's bread and butter are adults, while with Hasbro, it's kids (and parents buying for kids). As such there was a need not only for hyper articulation, but also for more modernised alt modes so that kids could have the same experience that adult fans had as kids (as well as circumventing the need for licensing)- whilst building them to that price point. Takara meanwhile were still able to sell the line on the grounds of using G1 characters. As such Classics was more of a compromise move on the part of Takara than of Hasbro, but one still workable for Hasbro.

I'd actually argue that the Masterpiece line has gone from a BT companion line of 4 different moulds, to a modernised redux of G1 designs, marketed with adult safety standards in mind (eg Red Alert's short circuit piece) and at an adult price point. As such I'd go so far as to suggest that it's what the Classics line would have originally been, had Hasbro's market demographics not been a determining factor.

I believe you and I are actually agreeing under the guise of disagreeing. I have no idea on the numbers, but I suspect a deceent amount of Takara's MPs are destined for overseas sales to TF fans worldwide, and it's something that Takara takes into account when creating things. My point was that such sales of a widescale MP line would not have been as successful even 5 years back due to many factors that were limiting their target audiance at the time. Now everyone who had an interest in Transformers has been reawakened due to the movies, and as we age we gain more diswposable income to spend on such things.

Classics are primarily for children, no doubt about that. My argument came from using the term Classics to relate to these MP figures. Yes the MPs are highly articulated. Yes they are completely G1 accurate. But calling them Classics is trying to supersceed or override a pretty successful idea from Hasbro, which IMO shouldn't be done.