The Energon Pub

As a child, I really loved Devastator and the like. I even had Defensor and I used to play with it a lot (before it's utter destruction). When I started to seriously collect transformers, I bought a couple of them. I even went to Power Core Combiners collecting and I even bought the Seacons reissue.

Through the years however, I found out that I love to PLAY with my transformers as much as I like displaying them. By "playing", I mean to fiddle with them and transforming them back and forth. What I discovered is that I don<t like to play with ghestalt combiners at all. First of all, it<s the fact that the combined form is often quite fragile. Limbs thend to detach all the time, no matter the combiner. Also, many are partforming heavy. The individual bots are often underwhelming. The overal combined look is often a clusterfawk of mismatched peices that look ackward. Also, I saw the Target Exclusive BH Abobinus set. Ugh, ugly thing...

So, I sold my FOC G2 Bruticus set and my Universe Devastator without any regrets and I want to sell my yellow RID Landmine as well. The only ghestalt I wanna keep is King Poseidon because despite all his faults, he<s still to awesome to get rid off.

Starngely, I LOVE combiners that are SUPER MODES. A.K.A, Optimus Prime who wear a buddy (or his trailer) as a suit of armor. For me, it<s just work because the combined mode never look like a pile of scrap thrown together and the individual bots are always fawk-awesome individually.

What are your thoughts on combiners in general? Ghestalts? Super Modes?

First, isn't it "Gestalt"?

Second, I don't care, as long as they look good to me. Of the Scramble city combiners, f'rex, I always liked Defensor the best (with motorcycle and helicopter arms) because he had a more 'heroic' build. And I really dislike the recent FoC Bruticus because his proportions are blech.

I prefer Super Modes over Gestalts, but I can accept both.

Don't be quick to condemn them K. FOC Bruticus sucks.That I agree. If they only got the design closer to the game.........As for the rest(there are indeed issues with Six-turbo's hand placement and Superions legs)most if not all are awesome (the G1 bricks that is). Defensor G1 is in my opinion one of the best but underappreciated of the group.

fenrir72 wrote:Don't be quick to condemn them K. FOC Bruticus sucks.That I agree. If they only got the design closer to the game.........As for the rest(there are indeed issues with Six-turbo's hand placement and Superions legs)most if not all are awesome (the G1 bricks that is). Defensor G1 is in my opinion one of the best but underappreciated of the group.

Ironically, I think the G1 Scramble City combiners are still the best. That's why I keep the Seacons team.I forgive them for their brickness because they are generally good looking and are solid. However, all those loose parts keep them from perfections.

As for Defensor, his true fault is the absurd scale. All limbs are stupidly out of scale with each others. Bruticus too have the same problem. At least, the seacons limbs are all of the same colors and they are monsters so the look is consistent. Still, let's stay sane and ignore the classic and obligatory TF scales issues.

You should also try tracking the TF GO! gestalts. Great hunks of pvc goodness.

The only real combiners of any kind I don't care for that much are ones like the Multiforce and the Energon powerlinks where it's basically one guy using the other as a pair of trousers.

For the most part I like them. It's just a pain to combine them.

They generally tend to be too small. Also, it would be nice to get something that wasn't Devestator, Bruticus and Superion over and over.

I'm loving the Fansproject Stunticons because they look nice with G1 Prowl and co.

I'm also loving my oversized Korean Bruticus where Onslaught is in scale with G1 Ultra Magnus.

Strangely, I always felt G1 Predaking was too large but that size would've worked for Abominus.

I'm dying to get Kabaya Roadking.

Back in the day, I loved me some G1 gestalts. I had them all, save for Computron and Predaking, and had them all lined up on the shelf, always in combined mode. Through the years I soured on them a bit and sold them off 1 by 1, and don't regret it. Ironically, now I'm contemplating picking up the reissue Predaking, or the Platinum version.

As for Super modes, I like them. I have Armada Jet Convoy and Astro Convoy (Atrotrain and Powerlinx Prime) as well as RiD Omega Prime, though it's a bit customized. I used to like RoTF Jet Convoy but ended up selling him. I might get a Leader Prime with a FWI-3 add-on, not sure yet.

I agree, FoC Bruticus sux ballz. I think they look better displayed separately, actually.

I don't own any 3rd party combiners, but I have been contemplating TFC Hercules. However, I'm waiting on whether HasTak makes good on their MP promise, and we see the G1 Constructicons in MP form.

I do have the 2011 BotCon Stunticon set, and I think they look great separately. I was really hoping that planned 3rd party Menasor upgrade happened, but looks like that's a dead end.

Of course, my dream combiner is a aesthetically pleasing Dinobot combiner. Unfortunately, the G1 versions weren't molded to allow for combination. I was hoping maybe the Generations line would include maybe FoC versions that combine.

I never cared for Powercore sets. Looked kinda lame.

My ideal gestalt combiner would have these features:

-- No obvious vehicles as limbs. Like a car "standing up" for a leg and such. Make the TF a TRUE triple changer with a vehicle, robot, and limb mode that is very different looking from each others.

-- No partforming at all. That count for detachables guns too. Make the hands transforms into guns like so many TF did before. Of course, that include the arms of the gestalt.

-- Make the limbs attach securely on the body and make it very posable.

-- The combined mode should look like it's own bot, not like a collage of mismatched parts.

-- Each individual bots should be good looking in all modes and fun to transform.

I know it's possible. Make a brand new character if need be.

I dunno, I'd make an exception for the guns if they are like Special Ops Jazz, and have a place to store in alt mode.

I don't like Hasbro Gestalts because they are all awful. Giant and Hercules (3rd party Devastators) are awesome. Really poseable with none of that falling apart problem you mention. I'm REALLY looking forward to completing MMC's Predaking. I love Gestalts when they're done right, something Hasbro is unable to do.

Yep, I like combiners. Just wish Hasbro would return to partsforming, since it's really the best way to make good combiners. Fall of Cybertron Bruticus could've been so much better.

Are we talking about the concept of gestalts or specifically HasTak G1 Encore sets?

Regarding the former, I love the concept, but it has to be done with a sufficiently high budget, and made for adults. In other words, what the 3rd party guys are doing. That said, 3rd party gestalts are still limited by their lack of ability to mass-produce, thus making the toys unnecessarily expensive.

If TT were to start making gestalts, It'd be interesting to see how they compare to the more experienced (in making modernized gestalt TF's, at least), but financially limited 3rd party ones.

One personal peeve of mine is the blatantly out-of-scale alt modes that many of these gestalts are made of. And before anyone says, "TF's have always been out of scale since 1984," I know and acknowledge that. It's a PERSONAL peeve of mine, not a generalized complaint.

With that in mind, Menasor is the only gestalt I will ever buy. The car-based Stunticons are at least reasonably in scale with Motormaster (no Jeeps the size of space shuttles), and they've been my favorite combiner team since G1.

Predaking, too.

Mindmaster wrote:Yep, I like combiners. Just wish Hasbro would return to partsforming, since it's really the best way to make good combiners. Fall of Cybertron Bruticus could've been so much better.

I appreciate the imaginative solutions and combinations over the years. The 4 member Autobot Construction: Build Team from RiD, was a cool idea, but, badly executed. 3 member; Rail Racer Team, was also very cool, but, unbalanced. I do like that they've moved away from parts, but, there are better solutions for the feet/hands/head/chest plate. Making those robot parts, separate BIG pieces, as in big enough not to lose, or, making the built in items stouter, is what is needed. No matter the shape.

Hasbro HAS to be studying 3rd party combiners. Learning where 3rd party has succeeded, such as Hercules. And 3rd parties mistakes, such as those in finished/completed Uranos.



There is something to be said of the old brick like G1 toy line.

Hasbro has experimented with cool ideas. I myself want a proper, full sized, triple-con baseformer Tidal Wave. More duocons, & pants former combiners. Remember Omega Prime? The Gog Maximus and Convoy parts combo. I still have that set, though, the plastic, even in the recommended environment & out of light, is getting more brittle. This due to the pushing the boundaries of plastic material.

It's all a learning process. But, sometimes, Hasbro & Takara both have got to make simpler, sturdier designs, that will be fun & not floppy or break down from stress. Prime did good things, but still has some issues with joints, unbalanced weight, & the like. Maybe some more brick like designs, with the ability for posing, still there.

Tronus_Rex wrote:And 3rd parties mistakes, such as those in finished/completed Uranos.

What's wrong with him? I don't have him so I'm interested in your thoughts.

Tronus_Rex wrote:I myself want a proper ... pants former

Are you sure?

Mykltron wrote:What's wrong with him?

His combined mode is fine (barring some complaint about the head sculpt), but the alt modes of his individual not-Aerialbots are horrendous. Not-Silverbolt is basically ROTF leader class Jetfire in disguise. Just like Jetfire, his jet mode has all his robot bits hanging under it. The one that transforms into an F-16 Fighting Falcon has boxy rear end in jet mode...literally.

Like I said, horrendous alt modes.

NOTE: I don't own one either, but that's what I heard in other forums.

Here's a review so you can see for yourself: http://blackplasticlife.blogspot.com/2013/09/tfc-uranos-project-uranos-pictorial.html

I forgot about one type of combiner that I really like. 3 vehicles/beasts with no bot mode, that combine into either a giant vehicle or a giant robot. Armada Tidalwave is the perfect example. He's so awesome and fun! The only thing he lack are proper knee joints.

An honorable mention is Magmatron from Beast Wars Neo. 3 beasts that combine into a very awesome looking Devilman style demon. However, his super beast mode is just an afterthought and he's not fun at all to combine because of all the parts that have to fit just right. Even then, nothing fit perfectly together.

Once again, it's not the ghestalt type that I like.

...

Oh, forgot this guy that I own and like: Go-Bots Puzzler. No partforming at all for a G1 bot! Sure, he's fragile as hell in combined mode, but at least he's all made out of cars that are in the same scale to each others.

Defensor would be a deformed abobination if all the vehicles would have been in scale. Fire truck body, a bike leg, a car leg, a minivan arm, and a copter arm. Really?

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:

Mykltron wrote:What's wrong with him?

His combined mode is fine (barring some complaint about the head sculpt), but the alt modes of his individual not-Aerialbots are horrendous. Not-Silverbolt is basically ROTF leader class Jetfire in disguise. Just like Jetfire, his jet mode has all his robot bits hanging under it. The one that transforms into an F-16 Fighting Falcon has boxy rear end in jet mode...literally.

Like I said, horrendous alt modes.

NOTE: I don't own one either, but that's what I heard in other forums.

Here's a review so you can see for yourself: http://blackplasticlife.blogspot.com/2013/09/tfc-uranos-project-uranos-pictorial.html

Apologies for my slow reply, & I just gave a reference, on the review forum, so here:

http://www.seibertron.com/energonpub/tfc-toys-uranos-superion-emgo-s-transformers-reviews-n-stuff-p1536936.php#p1536936

TFC Toys URANOS (Superion): "EmGo's" Transformers Reviews N' Stuff - YouTube -



In regard to the "pants formers", I'm quite sure that, if that idea were revisited, they could make better version of these combiners.