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Kuribohfett wrote:Very well thought out. I agree with you that Skids and Mudflap needed to do a lot more to redeem themselves simply to avoid being useless. THEY should've taken down Devastator themselves, from the inside out, instead of giving another another Con kill to the US Army.

Ballistic90 wrote:And there's also the fact that an enormous amount of the reviewers picked up immediately, even if they didn't have a huge breadth of knowledge on the subject, and even a lot of white people. This isn't just a few sensitive people, even the WRITERS acknowledged it. I mean, come on now.

Burn wrote:Am I the only one (because I mentioned it before and no one caught onto it) that Jetfire was also "stereotyped" as an old fuddy duddy with a British accent?

I mean come on, the old fuddy duddy Brits were huge comedies back in the 60's and 70's, why isn't that brought up? Why isn't that considered racist?

TurbofireJames wrote:I understand, and respect what your saying. The term racist is thrown around a lot though.

rac·ism
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

I will agree that skids and mudflaps are problematic and make people uncomfortable. What is interesting though is that they are still autobots, and they show a lot of character in their battle against devastator. There is something novel about a character who is a "black stereotype" or seemingly of a lower socioeconomic status breaking the mold and showing a lot heart, compassion, and a very strong will when the chips are down. I studied oppression in media, so I dont disagree with your argument but i think this case is an interesting study and calling it racist outright does not do the complexity of the situation justice.

Autobobby1 wrote:

Ballistic90 wrote:And there's also the fact that an enormous amount of the reviewers picked up immediately, even if they didn't have a huge breadth of knowledge on the subject, and even a lot of white people. This isn't just a few sensitive people, even the WRITERS acknowledged it. I mean, come on now.

1) Critics over-analyze EVERYTHING. Naturally they were offended by something mostly fabricated by their own imaginations.

2) Orci and Kurtzman didn't say they thought the twins were racist. They said they thought people would "write in about" Skidz's gold tooth. They were so vague that they could have meant the fans would hate their goofy appearances.

Caelus wrote:

Dr. Heavy B wrote:I can understand critisizim over the appearance, and the high pitch style of talk...but the things they say, I've met more white guys who talk like that

Given their asymmetrical deformed faces, their incompetence, and their exaggerated dialogue... I thought they were supposed to be inbred southeastern trailer-park white-trash posers.

When I first saw them carrying on I thought "black", and then realized that the fact I jumped to that was actually what was really racist, especially when they were so much more like 50% of the white guys I knew back home. Of course, I found those guys to be offensive in and of themselves...

Autobobby1 wrote:Look at those green and orange alien robots! They act vaguely like black stereotypes, therefore Michael Bay must have maliciously made them act like that because he hates black people! It's okay when the Wayans brothers make a movie explicitly black stereotypes because they're black, but when there's a vague hint of two secondary characters being stereotypes in a movie by a non-black man, it's racism! It all makes perfect sense now!

Autobobby1 wrote:

Burn wrote:I mean come on, the old fuddy duddy Brits were huge comedies back in the 60's and 70's, why isn't that brought up? Why isn't that considered racist?

Because it's a lot easier for critics to call out a movie for being racist against black people since that's the most common form of racism.

Ballistic90 wrote:I'm going to break this down to you why this is racist. This is with information from my fiancee who is an African American woman with a history major and a lot of knowledge of the history of Black history, including lynchings and black stereotypes. The big 'ears', big teeth and illiterate aspect of these characters are the spitting image of the 'Sambo' stereotype created back around the late 1800s, during the Jim Crow times, to affect social control on African Americans. Having people believe in these stereotypes as being the 'norm' would create a fear or distaste in the white population of the black population, keeping African Americans subjugated even though they are no longer slaves.

Mudflap and Skids had these characteristics, and Skids even had a gold tooth with some symbol on it (reflecting stereotypical black rappers), and they also acted very stupid. Now, no other robots had these physical characteristics, or were stupid. So by making these the only stupid robots, they were basically saying that 'everyone with this characteristics are stupid'. Considering that it's a stereotype of African Americans (a WELL DOCUMENTED ONE, mind you), it's like saying that African Americans are stupid. Now, it could be either that Michael Bay wasn't aware he was doing this, that he was really stupid (ok, that's a valid concern if you think about it), but it is very suspicious that they all came together into these two characters. Not to mention that they had next to no redeeming characteristics or abilities lends even more credence to the whole racism problem. They had scenes where they did something sort of important, but they existed to basically stand around and be dumb. That's the problem.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that what is the biggest problem is the combination of the actions, speech and physical characteristics is why it's racist. If they looked exactly the same, but were clearly not stupid (like... strategists or geniuses or something), and didn't speak in ebonics, no one would even know what to think of them.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Ballistic90 wrote:I'm going to break this down to you why this is racist. This is with information from my fiancee who is an African American woman with a history major and a lot of knowledge of the history of Black history, including lynchings and black stereotypes. The big 'ears', big teeth and illiterate aspect of these characters are the spitting image of the 'Sambo' stereotype created back around the late 1800s, during the Jim Crow times, to affect social control on African Americans. Having people believe in these stereotypes as being the 'norm' would create a fear or distaste in the white population of the black population, keeping African Americans subjugated even though they are no longer slaves.

Mudflap and Skids had these characteristics, and Skids even had a gold tooth with some symbol on it (reflecting stereotypical black rappers), and they also acted very stupid. Now, no other robots had these physical characteristics, or were stupid. So by making these the only stupid robots, they were basically saying that 'everyone with this characteristics are stupid'. Considering that it's a stereotype of African Americans (a WELL DOCUMENTED ONE, mind you), it's like saying that African Americans are stupid. Now, it could be either that Michael Bay wasn't aware he was doing this, that he was really stupid (ok, that's a valid concern if you think about it), but it is very suspicious that they all came together into these two characters. Not to mention that they had next to no redeeming characteristics or abilities lends even more credence to the whole racism problem. They had scenes where they did something sort of important, but they existed to basically stand around and be dumb. That's the problem.

EDIT: I just wanted to add that what is the biggest problem is the combination of the actions, speech and physical characteristics is why it's racist. If they looked exactly the same, but were clearly not stupid (like... strategists or geniuses or something), and didn't speak in ebonics, no one would even know what to think of them.

This pisses me off to no end.....
All this tells me (and this is coming from an African American male) is that YOU AND YOUR FIANCE' ARE THE ONES THAT ARE RACIST!!!! All this posts tells me is that you are the one that associates big ears, gold teeth, and stupid dim witted behaviour with African Americans. Not bay. You know what i saw when i watched Skids and MudFlap? Two immature green and orange [i]ROBOTS[/i] Cause that's what they were. If anything, all this proves is that dim witted, immature, wanna-be gangsta attitudes know no bounds in terms of race. whether that be the human race, or an alien race.
The more people begin to nit pick stupid **** like this as being "Racist" the further we are from truly becoming a racist free society. I know that will probably never happen, but the more people (especially from the African American community) continue to associate this type of behavior with themselves, how do we expect the rest of the world not to?

Ballistic90 wrote:I'm sorry, but I'm associating their behavior and appearance with well entrenched and defined stereotypes created in the late 1800's stereotypes of the 'coon' and 'sambo' during the Jim Crow days.

Blackstreak wrote:I guess we can look at gangstas now and laugh as they 'put a cap in our asses'. Whether they are stereotyped or not I thought they were hilarious.

Serpent O - R wrote:"I'm illiterate, dumb and fight a lot over stupid things. I look like hell, but it's funny and if it's funny, it's ok. If you have a problem with me, I'll use my crazy squeaky voice to intimidate you before I have to beat you."

Is anyone concerned by the fact the our kids imitate their favorite things? Isn't that what the issue should be here?

I mean, I can't even recall how many times I've seen on these boards people going at each other over toy designs [myself included] just to be trumped by the all powerful, "It's a Kids movie to sell toys."

Well, your "Kids" movie is here, I hope they enjoy it... I also hope you enjoy trying to explain to them why it's important to know how to read and that violence is always a last resort to defend yourself and your family... Not something to do when you want the green shirt.

Urban culture grows out of economic status and place, not race and ethnicity.