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kaijuguy19 wrote:Even if they did come out with a reboot there's still going to be people who are going to complain and have problems with it one way or another even if they're better made. We'll still have people who'll gripe on about how they're not as blocky or G1,how they don't have alt modes that are accurate to G1 and in some instances we'd still have critics who'll still scoff at the idea of giant robots leading the movie I mean from what I've read it happened before in the 86 movie. Also keep in mind that the people behind the reboot may make it not any better then the current ones or else even worse. As much as Bay gets a lot of flak from the movie industry in America and the geek fandom in general there are FAR worse directors out there.

Besides the spin offs may not even happen for the current movies since the current series seems to be losing steam. Yeah China's move goers were able to help AOE but that doesn't mean it'll be the same for the fifth and sixth installments. If they do have plans to do a spin off series it would be best to save it for the reboot series.

Just because it might be worse or people will complain doesn't mean we can't hope for something better in the future. People complaining, as I'm doing now, is a universal constant, which doesn't mean they shouldn't try again. If we're going by that logic, why bother making any movies in the first place? They do have the power to control what it is people complain about, though. Me in particular I actually don't mind a lot of the robot designs, aside from mudflap and skids. My gripe is that the movies aren't actually about the transformers, and that we can't have a fight scene without cutting to Marky Mark.

Also, today's climate is a lot more accepting of this kind of thing than they used to be. Dubious source material is no excuse for poor quality, and we're getting a Marvel movie where a man in a robot suit, super patriot, green monster, purple robin hood, scarlette johansson, and sam jackson team up with a talking racoon, space wrestler, green lady, an ent, and chris pratt to fight over some magic rocks. If a talking raccoon can woo critics I have faith that a sentient robot can at least make them ambivalent.

ricemazter wrote:

kaijuguy19 wrote:Even if they did come out with a reboot there's still going to be people who are going to complain and have problems with it one way or another even if they're better made. We'll still have people who'll gripe on about how they're not as blocky or G1,how they don't have alt modes that are accurate to G1 and in some instances we'd still have critics who'll still scoff at the idea of giant robots leading the movie I mean from what I've read it happened before in the 86 movie. Also keep in mind that the people behind the reboot may make it not any better then the current ones or else even worse. As much as Bay gets a lot of flak from the movie industry in America and the geek fandom in general there are FAR worse directors out there.

Besides the spin offs may not even happen for the current movies since the current series seems to be losing steam. Yeah China's move goers were able to help AOE but that doesn't mean it'll be the same for the fifth and sixth installments. If they do have plans to do a spin off series it would be best to save it for the reboot series.

Just because it might be worse or people will complain doesn't mean we can't hope for something better in the future. People complaining, as I'm doing now, is a universal constant, which doesn't mean they shouldn't try again. If we're going by that logic, why bother making any movies in the first place? They do have the power to control what it is people complain about, though. Me in particular I actually don't mind a lot of the robot designs, aside from mudflap and skids. My gripe is that the movies aren't actually about the transformers, and that we can't have a fight scene without cutting to Marky Mark.

Also, today's climate is a lot more accepting of this kind of thing than they used to be. Dubious source material is no excuse for poor quality, and we're getting a Marvel movie where a man in a robot suit, super patriot, green monster, purple robin hood, scarlette johansson, and sam jackson team up with a talking racoon, space wrestler, green lady, an ent, and chris pratt to fight over some magic rocks. If a talking raccoon can woo critics I have faith that a sentient robot can at least make them ambivalent.

I never said complaints won't change anything. I mean we never got the amount of toliet jokes that ROTF had since DOTM and in AOE there was never any body jokes and in AOE the robots themselves got more screentime and acted more like characters this time around not to mention Optimus himself has the same main role as Cade did in AOE which may be a sign of this continuing in the future movies which means the complaints have been heard and addressed to an extent. I'm just saying that some complaints are going to be different from one another and some are just going to be subjective which happens even in great movies and series. Just because a majority of people share the same negative opinion doesn't mean it's always going to be a valid one just as sharing the same positive opinion.

By spin-off I'm sure they mean Rodimus Prime and Hot Shot's group in Los Angeles fighting different Decepticons, and come out the summers between the Bay movies... I suspect we'll be seeing much more of the same since that's what sells.

I think that Hasbro should look at this more from a toy perspective because the movies are crap, but people will go see them regardless. From what I'm hearing (correct me if I'm wrong), is that Generations sells out while Bayformers tends to shelfwarm. So I think Hasbro should reboot using Generations designs based on the fact that people will flock to the movies even if the story is bad and the robots look like junk.. they might as well sell more toys to go with the crappy flicks.

1984forever wrote:From what I'm hearing (correct me if I'm wrong), is that Generations sells out while Bayformers tends to shelfwarm.

Only because the retail stores order so much movie product and very little Generations by comparison that the Generations stuff sells out first because there's so little of it to keep on the shelves. Meanwhile, the movie stuff is constantly replenished on the shelves thanks to the stores having so much of it in stock. The stores wanna sell movie stuff more than Generations because they have a greater interest in the movie stuff than they do Generations.

Sabrblade wrote:

1984forever wrote:From what I'm hearing (correct me if I'm wrong), is that Generations sells out while Bayformers tends to shelfwarm.

Only because the retail stores order so much movie product and very little Generations by comparison that the Generations stuff sells out first because there's so little of it to keep on the shelves. Meanwhile, the movie stuff is constantly replenished on the shelves thanks to the stores having so much of it in stock. The stores wanna sell movie stuff more than Generations because they have a greater interest in the movie stuff than they do Generations.

From what I have seen over the past 6 years is that the movie stuff is simply rearranged to keep it neat, not replenished. I remember seeing the same old leftover characters on the shelves. Certain Bayformers went down in fandom history as notorious shelfwarmers.
Generations should be given an opportunity to shine outside of the comics. I believe with a good cartoon or movie behind it, Generations could become Hasbro's highest seller.

AoE definitely shelfwarmed... that **** did not, and still doesn't move (it also doesn't help that it's still not on clearance). It was also under ordered, so that's saying something. DotM I think underperformed only because of the high volume the stores ordered. And from memory, RotF sold fine and the first movie sold like hot cakes.
I think AoE not selling was mostly because kids already have an Optimus and Bumblebee and don't need them in a different "suit" (channeling Batman figures there). And until AoE, the four main Autobots were in all the movies. Can't explain why the new AoE Autobots didn't sell. It doesn't help that Hasbro doesn't give kids very many Decepticons for their Autobot troops to fight... no point in buying a ton of Autobots if they can't battle anyone

Is anyone else concerned about what an increase in movies might mean for the cartoons (and their toylines)?

Sabrblade wrote:They... They already have a cinematic universe, and which only works thanks to John Barber making everything that needs to fit together, well, fit together (since the movies themselves and alone couldn't bother to do that).

Let that sink in for a moment. John Barber, who has has no connection to the film production, is the one who was slapping band-aids on the continuity.

Nemesis Primal wrote:Is anyone else concerned about what an increase in movies might mean for the cartoons (and their toylines)?

Sabrblade wrote:They... They already have a cinematic universe, and which only works thanks to John Barber making everything that needs to fit together, well, fit together (since the movies themselves and alone couldn't bother to do that).

Let that sink in for a moment. John Barber, who has has no connection to the film production, is the one who was slapping band-aids on the continuity.

Hmm, well, to be perfectly fair, Simon Furman did some of the patch jobs too, like explaining what happened to Barricade when he vanished in the first movie, or how Bumblebee lost his voice again between Movie 1 and ROTF. Barber's patches, however, were more thorough.

I'll kill myself if they do a Beast Wars movie. I'd rather die than see them mutilate BW the way they did G1. jk, sort of.

But seriously, I hope they don't do anything related to Beast Wars. The movies are already so far removed from anything resembling the Transformers brand, I've started to not recognize them as Transformers movies. They just cheap, bastardized Hollywood knock-offs. No more related to the actual Transformers franchise than "TransMorphers".

UltraPrimal wrote:I'll kill myself if they do a Beast Wars movie. I'd rather die than see them mutilate BW the way they did G1. jk, sort of.

But seriously, I hope they don't do anything related to Beast Wars. The movies are already so far removed from anything resembling the Transformers brand, I've started to not recognize them as Transformers movies. They just cheap, bastardized Hollywood knock-offs. No more related to the actual Transformers franchise than "TransMorphers".

I'm not seeing how the TF movies are so far removed from the TF brand anymore then how series like Beast Wars,Beast Machines and the planned Transtech series were like which were so drastically different from what G1 was. Aside from the more alien designs well most of them anyway since we do have more humanoid ones as well the movies do take a good amount of inspiration and elements from the franchise in terms of design,story elements and ideas while at the same time doing new takes on some of them. Not everything has to be strongly based in G1 which series like the RID anime,Unicron Trilogy and Prime and RID15 have shown. Even Animated which has strong G1 homages manages to do things that are drastically different at times too. Not saying every that the movies have done were well made but what they're doing isn't really that different from the other series that came after G1.

UltraPrimal wrote:I'll kill myself if they do a Beast Wars movie. I'd rather die than see them mutilate BW the way they did G1. jk, sort of.

But seriously, I hope they don't do anything related to Beast Wars. The movies are already so far removed from anything resembling the Transformers brand, I've started to not recognize them as Transformers movies. They just cheap, bastardized Hollywood knock-offs. No more related to the actual Transformers franchise than "TransMorphers".

I would actually enjoy a BW movie... bad BW is better than no BW. Unless it's just a bunch of made up characters that resemble the RiD15 Decepticons, then it'd be trash (not knocking RiD, it just wouldn't be suitable for BW)

MartianSpyGirl1996 wrote:I would actually enjoy a BW movie... bad BW is better than no BW. Unless it's just a bunch of made up characters that resemble the RiD15 Decepticons, then it'd be trash (not knocking RiD, it just wouldn't be suitable for BW)

You'd rather we did get a movie with Optimus Primal eating junk off his gorilla butt than to not see him so disgraced?

kaijuguy19 wrote:

UltraPrimal wrote:I'll kill myself if they do a Beast Wars movie. I'd rather die than see them mutilate BW the way they did G1. jk, sort of.

But seriously, I hope they don't do anything related to Beast Wars. The movies are already so far removed from anything resembling the Transformers brand, I've started to not recognize them as Transformers movies. They just cheap, bastardized Hollywood knock-offs. No more related to the actual Transformers franchise than "TransMorphers".

I'm not seeing how the TF movies are so far removed from the TF brand anymore then how series like Beast Wars,Beast Machines and the planned Transtech series were like which were so drastically different from what G1 was. Aside from the more alien designs well most of them anyway since we do have more humanoid ones as well the movies do take a good amount of inspiration and elements from the franchise in terms of design,story elements and ideas while at the same time doing new takes on some of them. Not everything has to be strongly based in G1 which series like the RID anime,Unicron Trilogy and Prime and RID15 have shown. Even Animated which has strong G1 homages manages to do things that are drastically different at times too. Not saying every that the movies have done were well made but what they're doing isn't really that different from the other series that came after G1.

You're right, the movies are just as terrible as the original cartoon teehee
Joking around of course, but that actually is my opinion.

Sabrblade wrote:

MartianSpyGirl1996 wrote:I would actually enjoy a BW movie... bad BW is better than no BW. Unless it's just a bunch of made up characters that resemble the RiD15 Decepticons, then it'd be trash (not knocking RiD, it just wouldn't be suitable for BW)

You'd rather we did get a movie with Optimus Primal eating junk off his gorilla butt than to not see him so disgraced?

Sure. More BW toys I can pick from, and I can fast forward though the poopy parts. It doesn't ruin anything that came before it, so why not.
I would obviously prefer a well done Beast Wars movie, but since Hasbro is the distributor and has no clue how to make a movie (since they **** specialize in toys), I'd take what I can get

ricemazter wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Noideaforaname wrote:So a franchise that totally ignores it's own continuity and needed to rely on China last time is trying to ape another studio that has the next decade planned out?

What could possibly go wrong?

When did it ignore its continuity?

The movies themselves have been ignoring continuity for a while now. For example, between the third and second movies, the specifics of whatever megatron's plans were which have been in the works for millions of years are all over the place. First he wants to use the allspark to make a transformer army, which he does by chasing the allspark into space. Then somehow we find out he's been in contact with an extra dimensional being all that time working on a different plan to consume the earth's sun to fuel the young transformer army he apparently already had. Then, on top of that he's been in league with the former autobot leader all this time to bring cybertron to earth and use humanity as slave labor. How he had all of these going on simultaneously makes no sense to me.

The most egregious example is AOE. All this time, IDW comics have generally been filling in the plot holes, but AOE tells us that instead of the transformer race being created by the dynasty of primes using the allspark to create the transformers in order to set up solar harvesters to continually fuel the cube and cybertron, they were instead made by a completely different race of aliens who used bombs to turn planet surfaces into the transformium metal, harvested said metal, and physically built them. Never mind all the stuff about the knights conflicting somewhat with the idea of the original primes. How the new information fits with the old, if at all, is completely up in the air at this point.

First of all, ROTF never implied that it was Megatron's plan to blow up the sun, at all. It was literally The Fallen's plan B. Megatron told him that without the Allspark, Cybertron was lost. The Fallen was like "Nah, I've got a backup." Also, Starscream said that without energon, the hatchling army wouldn't survive. So, no, he didn't have an army all along. Now, in the case of DOTM, what if Megatron's plan was to create an army on Earth and have that army enslave human kind; keep them in check, while they help rebuild Cybertron? Soundwave and Laserbeak were working with the humans while Megatron was frozen in the Hoover Dam, so, it wasn't even Megatron's plan. He wasn't in anything with with Sentinel, because Sentinel was in stasis. Bringing back Sentenel wasn't even on Megatron's mind until Optimus got The Matrix in ROTF, and his blan B failed. These plans might not have been expanded upon in the movies, like they should have been, but they don't infringe on one another, in the slightest.

Like I've said before, all this with the Creators and Knights was most likely left vague for a reason. It's called buildup. It also keeps the audience questioning the whole thing, wondering about what's in store down the line in the story. I'm pretty sure that's what they were going for when they wrote AOE. Bay even said himself, before AOE even came out, that the movie was going to be hinting at a lot of things that wouldn't necessarily make since at first, but they planned to expand upon it in the sequels. But, people are so Hell-bent on being pissed off at Bay, they don't want to recognize that that's what's going on.

Can someone enlighten me as to WHY we are ONCE AGAIN, discussing pros and cons of the previous movies when there's countless other threads for that to be discussed in, instead of actually discussing the topic at hand?

Seriously ... this relates to possible future spin-offs. Stop bogging down these movie news threads with discussions about plot holes and "why did this happen?" and "this makes no sense" type discussions.

kaijuguy19 wrote:

UltraPrimal wrote:I'll kill myself if they do a Beast Wars movie. I'd rather die than see them mutilate BW the way they did G1. jk, sort of.

But seriously, I hope they don't do anything related to Beast Wars. The movies are already so far removed from anything resembling the Transformers brand, I've started to not recognize them as Transformers movies. They just cheap, bastardized Hollywood knock-offs. No more related to the actual Transformers franchise than "TransMorphers".

I'm not seeing how the TF movies are so far removed from the TF brand anymore then how series like Beast Wars,Beast Machines and the planned Transtech series were like which were so drastically different from what G1 was. Aside from the more alien designs well most of them anyway since we do have more humanoid ones as well the movies do take a good amount of inspiration and elements from the franchise in terms of design,story elements and ideas while at the same time doing new takes on some of them. Not everything has to be strongly based in G1 which series like the RID anime,Unicron Trilogy and Prime and RID15 have shown. Even Animated which has strong G1 homages manages to do things that are drastically different at times too. Not saying every that the movies have done were well made but what they're doing isn't really that different from the other series that came after G1.

I just look at how they've mishandled every character they've put in the movies. Exponentially so with every sequel. Take movie "Optimus" as a prime example. First movie: OK. Fairly faithful representation of the character. Now, flash forward to Dark of the Moon. Optimus MURDERS his father AND his brother after they tried to restore their home planet. Yeah, they were probably going to wreck Earth to do it, but if we were in the same situation, we'd do the exact same thing. And he didn't have to kill them. They were beaten. They could have gotten NEST to use some freeze guns on them or something and imprison them. As we've seen, Transformers are susceptible to cold in the movie universe.(Although they have no problem flying through space?) Megatron even said he wanted peace.

Every other Optimus from G1 to BW to Armada to Animated would all have given Megatron a chance. At least in the first movie when he kills Megatron he says, "You left me no choice, brother." Because in that movie it was very cut and dry. Autobots are the good guys and Decepticons are the bad guys. Optimus is good. He has regret. When he kills Megatron in DOTM, he says nothing. Why? Because he's a psychotic murdering nutbag who just killed the people try to save his world.

And in the first movie, doesn't Optimus say something about how they don't harm humans? In AOE he just straight up blasts Kelsey Grammar. Yeah, it was to save Marky Mark. But jeez! I mean, he couldn't do anything else to help him? His gun doesn't have stun setting? No, of course it doesn't. This is a Michael Bay movie after all. It only fires burning-hot, fiery explosions.

I shutter to think what they'd do to Optimus Primal. "Oh, he's a gorilla? Well, the only gorillas I've seen are the ones in the movie Congo. So let's make him a crazy murderous gorilla like that... What? The original character was a peaceful explorer? Enjoyed studying plants and reading books? That must be a mistake. That's probably the bio for our villain." But I know the worst thing I can think of will probably pale in comparison to whatever they actually come up with.

BlueBefore wrote:Films on Cybertron and even Beast Wars films being live action makes no sense from an economic standpoint and Akiva has written some fairly competent films like Batman Forever and Cinderella Man.

Okay, I'm not even going to read the rest of the thread. You think Batman Forever was competent? I have to believe you are trolling with this one. Seriously, you just null and voided your own opinions.

Crap, I didn't read as throughly as I should have I guess... BlueBefore is a troll and I just defended him <facepalm> Sorry about that!

MartianSpyGirl1996 wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:

BlueBefore wrote:Films on Cybertron and even Beast Wars films being live action makes no sense from an economic standpoint and Akiva has written some fairly competent films like Batman Forever and Cinderella Man.

Okay, I'm not even going to read the rest of the thread. You think Batman Forever was competent? I have to believe you are trolling with this one. Seriously, you just null and voided your own opinions.

Wow, somebody has an opposing opinion from yours... let's be demeaning!

While Ironhidensh could have worded that more... diplomatically, "Batman Forever" is an objectively terrible movie in every kind of way.

Ironhidensh wrote:

BlueBefore wrote:Films on Cybertron and even Beast Wars films being live action makes no sense from an economic standpoint and Akiva has written some fairly competent films like Batman Forever and Cinderella Man.

Okay, I'm not even going to read the rest of the thread. You think Batman Forever was competent? I have to believe you are trolling with this one. Seriously, you just null and voided your own opinions.

Crap, I didn't read as throughly as I should have I guess... BlueBefore is a troll and I just defended him <facepalm> Sorry about that!

And now I just did a double post! OMG I suck...

UltraPrimal wrote:

kaijuguy19 wrote:

UltraPrimal wrote:I'll kill myself if they do a Beast Wars movie. I'd rather die than see them mutilate BW the way they did G1. jk, sort of.

But seriously, I hope they don't do anything related to Beast Wars. The movies are already so far removed from anything resembling the Transformers brand, I've started to not recognize them as Transformers movies. They just cheap, bastardized Hollywood knock-offs. No more related to the actual Transformers franchise than "TransMorphers".

I'm not seeing how the TF movies are so far removed from the TF brand anymore then how series like Beast Wars,Beast Machines and the planned Transtech series were like which were so drastically different from what G1 was. Aside from the more alien designs well most of them anyway since we do have more humanoid ones as well the movies do take a good amount of inspiration and elements from the franchise in terms of design,story elements and ideas while at the same time doing new takes on some of them. Not everything has to be strongly based in G1 which series like the RID anime,Unicron Trilogy and Prime and RID15 have shown. Even Animated which has strong G1 homages manages to do things that are drastically different at times too. Not saying every that the movies have done were well made but what they're doing isn't really that different from the other series that came after G1.

I just look at how they've mishandled every character they've put in the movies. Exponentially so with every sequel. Take movie "Optimus" as a prime example. First movie: OK. Fairly faithful representation of the character. Now, flash forward to Dark of the Moon. Optimus MURDERS his father AND his brother after they tried to restore their home planet. Yeah, they were probably going to wreck Earth to do it, but if we were in the same situation, we'd do the exact same thing. And he didn't have to kill them. They were beaten. They could have gotten NEST to use some freeze guns on them or something and imprison them. As we've seen, Transformers are susceptible to cold in the movie universe.(Although they have no problem flying through space?) Megatron even said he wanted peace.

Every other Optimus from G1 to BW to Armada to Animated would all have given Megatron a chance. At least in the first movie when he kills Megatron he says, "You left me no choice, brother." Because in that movie it was very cut and dry. Autobots are the good guys and Decepticons are the bad guys. Optimus is good. He has regret. When he kills Megatron in DOTM, he says nothing. Why? Because he's a psychotic murdering nutbag who just killed the people try to save his world.

And in the first movie, doesn't Optimus say something about how they don't harm humans? In AOE he just straight up blasts Kelsey Grammar. Yeah, it was to save Marky Mark. But jeez! I mean, he couldn't do anything else to help him? His gun doesn't have stun setting? No, of course it doesn't. This is a Michael Bay movie after all. It only fires burning-hot, fiery explosions.

I shutter to think what they'd do to Optimus Primal. "Oh, he's a gorilla? Well, the only gorillas I've seen are the ones in the movie Congo. So let's make him a crazy murderous gorilla like that... What? The original character was a peaceful explorer? Enjoyed studying plants and reading books? That must be a mistake. That's probably the bio for our villain." But I know the worst thing I can think of will probably pale in comparison to whatever they actually come up with.

Except even if Optimus accepted the truce this is Megatron we're talking about. He'll likely use the truce to his favour to lull Optimus in a false security then kill him the first chance he gets and reign the Earth. Also if Megatron truly wanted to have the truce and not fight anymore why didn't he show signs of remorse throughout the movie? Just because a villain offers a truce doesn't always mean he or she means it and follow through to the truce. Now do I think I would like to see Optimus handled it differently? In a way yeah because if he were to still kill Megatron and Sentinel I would prefer it if they at first tried to reason with him then try to kill him by surprise leaving Optimus to defend himself and kill them like with Bonecrusher in the 1st movie. Also bear in mind at this point both Megatron and Sentinel were beyond being reasoned with so even if he wanted to Optimus knew that he had to do something to end what they're doing for good because he couldn't let Earth suffer the same fate as Cybertron.

As for Optimus killing Attinger well Optimus was also trying to struggle with Lockdown at the time so Optimus had the do something quick to save Cadebecause he had no other options during that time. Also other then Attinger Optimus in AOe never kille any other human despite him feeling furious at them after what KSI did to his dead friends.

**** I love it when I and other staff member requests are ignored.