The Energon Pub

Hey, with the reviews already in, which include some spoilers, I have started this thread for us to discuss what we thought of the film. I have not see it yet (I will thursday the 26th) but I have read the reviews and they make me want to see the film even more.

If anyone wants to discuss the spoilers found in the reviews (like the hint of the Quints) or post their thoughts on the film when they see it, this can be the thread for it.

Here is the link to all the reviews of the film:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/transformers_age_of_extinction/reviews/

Good idea, allows everyone to talk about it while not dragging the other thread into annoying discussions over who spoiled what.

Va'al wrote:Good idea, allows everyone to talk about it while not dragging the other thread into annoying discussions over who spoiled what.

Thanks for your support Va'al

The two deaths I know of on the Autobot side I called long before we even had a single trailer.

From what I have been reading, this will be the first TF I skip in the theater.

Bleak5170 wrote:The two deaths I know of on the Autobot side I called long before we even had a single trailer.

From what I have been reading, this will be the first TF I skip in the theater.

Why? I ask because this is the first one I MUST watch at the theatres since the first film. You dont like them killing autobots, I take it.

Bleak5170 wrote:From what I have been reading, this will be the first TF I skip in the theater.

The killing of Autobots is that much of a turn off? To each his own, I guess.

Variety review wrote:...Michael Bay's symphony of destruction...

If I wasn't sold on the movie, I sure as hell am now!

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Variety review wrote:...Michael Bay's symphony of destruction...

If I wasn't sold on the movie, I sure as hell am now!

SAME here. FAWK YEAH!

william-james88 wrote:

Bleak5170 wrote:The two deaths I know of on the Autobot side I called long before we even had a single trailer.

From what I have been reading, this will be the first TF I skip in the theater.

Why? I ask because this is the first one I MUST watch at the theatres since the first film. You dont like them killing autobots, I take it.

Yeah that for sure. Ironhide was bad enough but this is too much. Plus some of the reviews I read make the movie sound just.....okay.

Bleak5170 wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Bleak5170 wrote:The two deaths I know of on the Autobot side I called long before we even had a single trailer.

From what I have been reading, this will be the first TF I skip in the theater.

Why? I ask because this is the first one I MUST watch at the theatres since the first film. You dont like them killing autobots, I take it.

Yeah that for sure. Ironhide was bad enough but this is too much. Plus some of the reviews I read make the movie sound just.....okay.

I understand your stance on autobot killing. But as for the bad reviews, so far these are the most positive reviews since the first film. If we were to judge on reviews alone, the previous 2 films are akin to the Antichrist. Just okay is a great endorsement in comparison.

Yeah that's true. I guess anything would be an improvement on ROTF and DOTM.

Bleak5170 wrote:Yeah that's true. I guess anything would be an improvement on ROTF and DOTM.

I don't get the hate for DoTM. I understand it for RoTF. It was a convoluted mess with some high spots of awesome action and some really low spots of toilet humor. But DoTM actually had a fairly decent story. Is it that Sentinel was made a bad guy? For me, the only things that were negatives from that movie were the gross mistreatment of Megatron, Starscream and Shockwave, as well as the abundant emphasis on the military. (No way in hell could they do what they did to the Decepticons.) Other than that, it was actually pretty good. Which is why it was popular enough to make over a BILLION dollars. (I understand that just because a movie makes a lot it doesn't mean high quality, but if a lot of people saw it 2 times or more in theaters, which is what I suspect the case to be for it to have such a high gross, it had to be at least a good experience.)

Bleak5170 wrote:The two deaths I know of on the Autobot side I called long before we even had a single trailer.

From what I have been reading, this will be the first TF I skip in the theater.

You said it almost like that was a bad thing... I belive that 2 Autobot's death is not enough, they should killed all of them, maybe except for Hound and BBB.

However, I can partially understand you: I would gladly watch RotF and DotM on computer instead of going to cinema, since this movies weren't worth a single cent. And Bay should clean the toilets, not make the movies. But I still belive that as a Transformers fan I need to give this movie a try. After all, it's 30'th Anniversary, and only because of that we should give Live Action Movies last chance.

However, I'm glad that it's now confirmed that Optimus is deactivated at some point. Actually, it was obvious all along, but you know Primelovers...

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Bleak5170 wrote:Yeah that's true. I guess anything would be an improvement on ROTF and DOTM.

I don't get the hate for DoTM. I understand it for RoTF. It was a convoluted mess with some high spots of awesome action and some really low spots of toilet humor.

It wasn't the worst movie I've ever seen by any means, and it was certainly a LOT better than ROTF, but honestly it kind of bored me. It sounds crazy to say this about a movie which revolves around giant, battling robots, but there was almost TOO much action. When you're looking at your watch, waiting for a movie to end, you know there's something wrong. The person I was with, (who enjoyed the other movies), was saying, "Ugh, when is this going to end???"

TurboMMaster wrote:

Bleak5170 wrote:The two deaths I know of on the Autobot side I called long before we even had a single trailer.

From what I have been reading, this will be the first TF I skip in the theater.

You said it almost like that was a bad thing... I belive that 2 Autobot's death is not enough, they should killed all of them, maybe except for Hound and BBB.

.

For me it's all about the characters more than the universe itself. When my favourites die I pretty much lose all interest. But that's just me. It was the same with the animated movie back in the 80s. Almost every single one of my favourite characters was killed off, and I never watched the cartoon after that.

Bleak5170 wrote:For me it's all about the characters more than the universe itself. When my favourites die I pretty much lose all interest

During Beast Wars Era, Dinobot was one of the most popular characters (I was his great fan). However many people belive that killing him was one of things that made him so great (since it was pure heroism) And Code of Hero is consider one of the best Beast Wars episodes. Death of important character isn't always a bad thing. As long as deathh are well made, I don't see reason why characters can't die. The main problem with Bayformers is: There is no good death scenes. So fas the only character that wasn't humiliated before kill was Optimus Prime. Hopefully, Michael Bay is out after AOE (althought it's hard to belive), then maybe new director will give us part of heroism and epicness we desire.

Bleak5170 wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Bleak5170 wrote:Yeah that's true. I guess anything would be an improvement on ROTF and DOTM.

I don't get the hate for DoTM. I understand it for RoTF. It was a convoluted mess with some high spots of awesome action and some really low spots of toilet humor.

It wasn't the worst movie I've ever seen by any means, and it was certainly a LOT better than ROTF, but honestly it kind of bored me. It sounds crazy to say this about a movie which revolves around giant, battling robots, but there was almost TOO much action. When you're looking at your watch, waiting for a movie to end, you know there's something wrong. The person I was with, (who enjoyed the other movies), was saying, "Ugh, when is this going to end???"

Then you probably should skip AoE, it will be 20 minutes longer and almost certainly all of the extra time will be action.

Rodimus Prime wrote: It wasn't the worst movie I've ever seen by any means, and it was certainly a LOT better than ROTF, but honestly it kind of bored me. It sounds crazy to say this about a movie which revolves around giant, battling robots, but there was almost TOO much action. When you're looking at your watch, waiting for a movie to end, you know there's something wrong. The person I was with, (who enjoyed the other movies), was saying, "Ugh, when is this going to end???"

Then you probably should skip AoE, it will be 20 minutes longer and almost certainly all of the extra time will be action.[/quote]


But wait, the action in DOTM which may have made it boring was all the military action, as was described in the quote above. If you break it down, DOTM had very little Transformer on Transformer action. Starscream and Shockwave were taken down by humans and the final Optimus vs megatron vs Sentinel fight was only 5 mins long at most. There is no military in this film taking down Lockdown in the big final battle. It is all transformer on transformer action and that should not be as boring.

william-james88 wrote:But wait, the action in DOTM which may have made it boring was all the military action, as was described in the quote above. If you break it down, DOTM had very little Transformer on Transformer action. Starscream and Shockwave were taken down by humans and the final Optimus vs megatron vs Sentinel fight was only 5 mins long at most. There is no military in this film taking down Lockdown in the big final battle. It is all transformer on transformer action and that should not be as boring.

That's a good point. However, just because military action hasn't been heavily promoted in the spots, it doesn't mean it isn't there, considering Bay's tendency to be on the military's nuts. This film will be set mostly in Asia, except for some scenes with Cade and his family, so that probably cuts down on military action in the film. And regardless of what reviews say about the story, abundance of Transformers action can only be a positive.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Bleak5170 wrote:Yeah that's true. I guess anything would be an improvement on ROTF and DOTM.

I don't get the hate for DoTM. I understand it for RoTF. It was a convoluted mess with some high spots of awesome action and some really low spots of toilet humor. But DoTM actually had a fairly decent story. Is it that Sentinel was made a bad guy? For me, the only things that were negatives from that movie were the gross mistreatment of Megatron, Starscream and Shockwave, as well as the abundant emphasis on the military. (No way in hell could they do what they did to the Decepticons.) Other than that, it was actually pretty good. Which is why it was popular enough to make over a BILLION dollars. (I understand that just because a movie makes a lot it doesn't mean high quality, but if a lot of people saw it 2 times or more in theaters, which is what I suspect the case to be for it to have such a high gross, it had to be at least a good experience.)

DOTM was HORRIBLE, worse than ROTF in many ways that I shall begin to explain here:

* The amount of holes. Firstly, DOTM was the first film in the franchise to just remove a bunch of characters and not explain why at all (Mudflap, Skids, Jolt). I don't care how "unimportant" they were, or that a lot of people hated the stereotype twins, it comes down to coherency to deliver a solid film and because Bay didn't explain it, it damaged the film's integrity. And on that topic, where did all that hench Jetfire armour go? It sure as hell isn't in the trailer suit.
* Secondly, whilst ROTF had a very MacGuffin, Dues Ex plot where Jetfire explained the entire movie in a 2 minute speech, at least the plot was somewhat coherent. DOTM has huge plot holes that simply don't make sense. Examples: How does Bumblebee go from saving Sam and Lennox and running around with the military, to being a prisoner of Soundwave in 60 seconds with no explanation of how he/they got there? How the **** did Megatron go from the top of a tower to sitting in an alley? The entire tower sequence - how the **** do they go from near the top when they're lining the rocket, to the top of the tower when they jump out, slide to the bottom, then somehow when it falls 90 degrees they are at the top again? BECAUSE ACTION.
* Crap script/characters. Carly's entire plot motivation for not wanting Sam to help the Autobots is her military brother, you don't know if he's dead or alive or what, it's barely 5 seconds of dialogue that you'd miss if you blinked. The whole "one human bad guy" thing is the most unbelievable of any element of the first 3 films, even the idea that Sam Witwicky, this high school kid, kills Megatron. It's just SO BAD.
* It's the most unrealistic film of all three, and I'm not talking about the space bridge science or blowing up Chicago. I'm talking about the little things that almost break the fourth wall by accident by reminding you that it's fake and it's a film. **** like when they're driving into Chicago and there is this random guy standing on a car. WHY IS HE THERE? It's so crying obvious that Bay has just said to his extras "act like it's the end" and had this guy stand on a car. All the countless poor decisions on camera angles, and how Bay chose to represent things (the shot where they're talking into the drone camera, flickering screen. The way Sam is CLEARLY visible to the maids when he's crawing through the Trump tower kitchen but they don't react. It's all stuff where you could make a complex excuse to make it work, but bottom line is this is a film and you shouldn't have to. If it was good, you wouldn't have to. The very fact that it makes you (me) stop and think wait, that doesn't make sense, is because it doesn't flow.)
* Too much Sam Witwicky, when Chicago is being destroyed. You'd think the robots which the plot actually flows around are more important.
* Who is Shockwave? Ahh thankyou Optimus for telling us who that character was. Shame he barely says 10 words in the entire film, only 1 of which is properly audible. On that topic, Starscream's death. Just to leave that there... I also wish Megatron was actually portrayed as being even a little bit threatening in this film to anything outside of the Saharan desert.
* Sudden ending screams that they ran out of budget/time/couldn't be bothered and just cut the ending off. They did not know the plot for Age of Extinction at this point.

These are just a few I can think of off the top of my head, early in the morning without watching the film. If I sit through it again, I'm sure it would jog a bunch more.

I mean stuff like the ending is minor but the rest is atrocious. If DOTM had been different, the franchise would have a lot more respect in terms of its solidarity and plot. ROTF wouldn't really change that, and that's why DOTM is worse. It's just covered up by having more action than the preceding two films, which is why everyone loves it. Don't get me wrong, I walked out of DOTM thinking it was my favourite film of all time telling everyone how insane it was. Now that I've watched it a bunch more times, it's probably the Transformers film I'd cringe to watch, more than ROTF. Most of ROTF actually made sense, especially the end battle sequence which flowed and overall was really well directed shot and edited. DOTM's sucked colossal dick for the sake of spending more time pumping out action. Which you can't really apologise for when films like Star Trek into Darkness, Cap 2 or Iron Man 3 manage it yet don't **** up the film's... sense.

Besides, ROTF had the writer's strike as an excuse. DOTM just sucked.


WALL OF TEXT CRIT FOR 1438143184301984146345890

TurboMMaster wrote:

Bleak5170 wrote:The two deaths I know of on the Autobot side I called long before we even had a single trailer.

From what I have been reading, this will be the first TF I skip in the theater.

You said it almost like that was a bad thing... I belive that 2 Autobot's death is not enough, they should killed all of them, maybe except for Hound and BBB.

However, I'm glad that it's now confirmed that Optimus is deactivated at some point. Actually, it was obvious all along, but you know Primelovers...

This thread is spoilers-allowed, you can flat out say it. Who dies, Optimus and Ratchet?

CarWrapKid wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

Bleak5170 wrote:Yeah that's true. I guess anything would be an improvement on ROTF and DOTM.

I don't get the hate for DoTM. I understand it for RoTF. It was a convoluted mess with some high spots of awesome action and some really low spots of toilet humor. But DoTM actually had a fairly decent story. Is it that Sentinel was made a bad guy? For me, the only things that were negatives from that movie were the gross mistreatment of Megatron, Starscream and Shockwave, as well as the abundant emphasis on the military. (No way in hell could they do what they did to the Decepticons.) Other than that, it was actually pretty good. Which is why it was popular enough to make over a BILLION dollars. (I understand that just because a movie makes a lot it doesn't mean high quality, but if a lot of people saw it 2 times or more in theaters, which is what I suspect the case to be for it to have such a high gross, it had to be at least a good experience.)

TurboMMaster wrote:

Bleak5170 wrote:The two deaths I know of on the Autobot side I called long before we even had a single trailer.

From what I have been reading, this will be the first TF I skip in the theater.

You said it almost like that was a bad thing... I belive that 2 Autobot's death is not enough, they should killed all of them, maybe except for Hound and BBB.

However, I'm glad that it's now confirmed that Optimus is deactivated at some point. Actually, it was obvious all along, but you know Primelovers...

This thread is spoilers-allowed, you can flat out say it. Who dies, Optimus and Ratchet?

Ratchet dies at the beginning and later on Leadfoot is shown being killed as well.

CarWrapKid wrote:DOTM was HORRIBLE, worse than ROTF in many ways that I shall begin to explain here:

* The amount of holes. Firstly, DOTM was the first film in the franchise to just remove a bunch of characters and not explain why at all (Mudflap, Skids, Jolt). I don't care how "unimportant" they were, or that a lot of people hated the stereotype twins, it comes down to coherency to deliver a solid film and because Bay didn't explain it, it damaged the film's integrity. And on that topic, where did all that hench Jetfire armour go? It sure as hell isn't in the trailer suit.

Time passed. They died. Who cares. Jolt was never even introduced in ROTF... he just kinda showed up mid-film. DOTM was better off without them.

* Secondly, whilst ROTF had a very MacGuffin, Dues Ex plot where Jetfire explained the entire movie in a 2 minute speech, at least the plot was somewhat coherent. DOTM has huge plot holes that simply don't make sense. Examples: How does Bumblebee go from saving Sam and Lennox and running around with the military, to being a prisoner of Soundwave in 60 seconds with no explanation of how he/they got there? How the **** did Megatron go from the top of a tower to sitting in an alley? The entire tower sequence - how the **** do they go from near the top when they're lining the rocket, to the top of the tower when they jump out, slide to the bottom, then somehow when it falls 90 degrees they are at the top again? BECAUSE ACTION.

Again, this is supernitpicky. Does Micheal Bay have to spell everything out for you? Did you really want a scene where Megatron does a soliloquy, climbs down a tower and mopes?

And now I'm bored of reading your post

The Jetfire "armor" (dead body is more like it) is not a permanent upgrade. Optimus used it that 1 time when he fought The Fallen. The Fallen basically tore it apart when they were fighting anyway, ruining it. Optimus even shakes off the pieces at the end of RoTF when the fight is finished. That explains Jetfire. In the novel, The Twins get killed by Sentinel when he turns. He actually shoots Mudflap in the face as he is trying to protect Bumblebee. Jolt also gets shot by Sentinel. As for Megatron ending up down in the alley, it's also in the book, when Sentinel grabs him and tells him "I agreed to work with you, not for you!" he actually grabs Megatron by the neck and throws him off the building, effectively ending their "partnership" when Cybertron arrives. I'm not sure why these details weren't included in the movie, it would have made more sense if they were. Even so, DoTM is still a much better film than RoTF.

CarWrapKid wrote:This thread is spoilers-allowed, you can flat out say it. Who dies, Optimus and Ratchet?

Optimus is deactivated, not killed ( at least this is from scratches I readed in review). I don't know did he die, even if I would love to see it.

CarWrapKid wrote:For me, the only things that were negatives from that movie were the gross mistreatment of Megatron, Starscream and Shockwave, as well as the abundant emphasis on the military. (No way in hell could they do what they did to the Decepticons.) Other than that, it was actually pretty good.

And actually, this is enough to consider DOTM terrible for me. Plus don't forget about plot holes and forced retcons. One of the reason why Bay's trilogy is so bad, it's because it is a trilogy at all! I would rather watch this movies as a stand-alone movies from different Universes. And also, Movies are simply badly directed.

CarWrapKid wrote:The amount of holes. Firstly, DOTM was the first film in the franchise to just remove a bunch of characters and not explain why at all (Mudflap, Skids, Jolt). I don't care how "unimportant" they were, or that a lot of people hated the stereotype twins, it comes down to coherency to deliver a solid film and because Bay didn't explain it, it damaged the film's integrity. And on that topic, where did all that hench Jetfire armour go? It sure as hell isn't in the trailer suit.

Well, their absence is explained in comic books, but if you didn'r read them, you have no idea what is going on. Plus I don't understand why Decepticons are powerfull bad asses in other part of franchise (Including Bayformer's comic books and video games even if they are canon) but in movie, they can't do anything.

CarWrapKid wrote:* I also wish Megatron was actually portrayed as being even a little bit threatening in this film to anything outside of the Saharan desert

Well, he created good Gambit and manipluated Humans and Autobots alike to the point when Decepeticons regain adventage. Also, he was able to beat and mortally wound Sentinel (something Optimus wasn't able to do at all). So it's not that simple. The problem is, he didn't get a single kill (Scalpel didn't count from obvious reason) and his death scene was sensless.

Also, there is a lot of completly good plots that are wested. For example: I liked how Optimus was portrayed in first movie, when he was Con's didn't take him seriously and he was some kind of underdog. In second movie, he is the Chosen One and even Fallen is afraid of him, and it was never really explained, it's just happedened of screen. Why Optimus could'nt become a threat during the second movie? Or why entire idea of "Humans get their advanced technology from Cybertronioans" was a plot excuse to put Witwicky's fimily into this and to explain wy humans can kill Cybertronians. Why Ironhide was such dumbass in first two movies, and why he can't face death with dignity? Why none of Autobots seems realy to care about Cybertron or their race future? And how many times Humans and Autobots can learn exactly the same lesson? How many Cybertronians can come here long ago and beign put in stasis for almost all time?

There is really a lot of bad thing you can say about original trilogy...

It Is Him wrote:
Time passed. They died. Who cares. Jolt was never even introduced in ROTF... he just kinda showed up mid-film. DOTM was better off without them.

Again, this is supernitpicky.

It really isn't super-nitpicky, it's how you separate a truly good film from a meh one. A large part of Marvel's unparalleled recent success is because they've realised, to expand their viewership past the fans long-term the best strategy is to concentrate on making strong, cohesive plots and character developement within their films, whilst still keeping the fans happy (most of the time *cough*IM3*cough*). The action is almost a secondary thing that happens along the way, and when people walk away from those films, they're going wow, that was a really good film and not just because of the explosions and hero moves.

ROTF and DOTM solely run on explosions. The first film was kinda cute, and had a nice roundness to it which is why so many people, especially critics, still say it's the best film of the first trilogy when it lacks the explosive action of the later films. Maybe I'm just more indepth into this stuff, I want to be a director so I care about a film's overall reputation, script, acting and aesthetic, not just the dollars it rakes in or how "cutting edge" the action is. If the films stay as they are, they will never be taken seriously.

It Is Him wrote:Does Micheal Bay have to spell everything out for you? Did you really want a scene where Megatron does a soliloquy, climbs down a tower and mopes?

Yes. That's what films are first and foremost, they tell a story, and that film was like telling a story with Alzheimer's.

Rodimus Prime wrote:The Jetfire "armor" (dead body is more like it) is not a permanent upgrade. Optimus used it that 1 time when he fought The Fallen. The Fallen basically tore it apart when they were fighting anyway, ruining it. Optimus even shakes off the pieces at the end of RoTF when the fight is finished. That explains Jetfire. In the novel, The Twins get killed by Sentinel when he turns. He actually shoots Mudflap in the face as he is trying to protect Bumblebee. Jolt also gets shot by Sentinel. As for Megatron ending up down in the alley, it's also in the book, when Sentinel grabs him and tells him "I agreed to work with you, not for you!" he actually grabs Megatron by the neck and throws him off the building, effectively ending their "partnership" when Cybertron arrives. I'm not sure why these details weren't included in the movie, it would have made more sense if they were. Even so, DoTM is still a much better film than RoTF.

Yep I also read the novel (graphic and text) before the film released, it's for the people who didn't that I'm mad. The comics/novels aren't canon - in many places they directly contradict the movies and they retcon like a rabbit in heat shags. The shame is that Bay probably cut those scenes out of the movie to reduce it's runtime - we know that he edited the Twins out of the hanger sequence in DOTM, they were in the trailer - and I feel it just shows how little he gives a crap for the integrity of the franchise. Surely you guys should want the films to actually care about the characters, rather than just explode and forget? Otherwise you're not in that theatre for the Transformers, you're there for the explosions. This director is still seeing it as a silly kid's cartoon when each series of the cartoon has rigid timelines and canons. And yet, Bay treats these films like South Park where Kenny dies every episode and mysteriously returns the next. --specifically, in DOTM.