The Energon Pub

People tend to lash out at you if you mention that you don't like the Michael Bay Transformer films for their stupid plots, idiotic characters, racism and general brainlessness.

Now I just happened to be looking at Rottentomatoes this morning and found something interesting ...

Transformers - 57%
Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - 19%
Transformers: Dark of the Moon - 36%
Transformers: Age of Extinction - 17%

Star Wars Episode I - 57%
Star Wars Episode II - 67%
Star Wars Episode III - 80%

So this means that the very best Transformers film is tied with the Phantom Menace as far as response from film reviewers.

cruizerdave wrote:People tend to lash out at you if you mention that you don't like the Michael Bay Transformer films for their stupid plots, idiotic characters, racism and general brainlessness.

Now I just happened to be looking at Rottentomatoes this morning and found something interesting ...

Transformers - 57%
Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - 19%
Transformers: Dark of the Moon - 36%
Transformers: Age of Extinction - 17%

Star Wars Episode I - 57%
Star Wars Episode II - 67%
Star Wars Episode III - 80%

So this means that the very best Transformers film is tied with the Phantom Menace as far as response from film reviewers.

Too bad none of the movies even have stupid plots, racism, or brainlessness. Idiotic characters is debatable.

I forget how rottentomatoes works, does it go by user submitted reviews or critics from other websites, or does it do both? My question is this however, what's the purpose of this thread? Are you trying to get people on board with your opinion about the movies being bad?

cruizerdave wrote:People tend to lash out at you if you mention that you don't like the Michael Bay Transformer films for their stupid plots, idiotic characters, racism and general brainlessness.

Now I just happened to be looking at Rottentomatoes this morning and found something interesting ...

Transformers - 57%
Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - 19%
Transformers: Dark of the Moon - 36%
Transformers: Age of Extinction - 17%

Star Wars Episode I - 57%
Star Wars Episode II - 67%
Star Wars Episode III - 80%

So this means that the very best Transformers film is tied with the Phantom Menace as far as response from film reviewers.

Well, I guess we should all hate the movies now. Rottentomatoes commands it.

We put up a good fight, though. We can walk out with our heads held up high. We put up a good fight, good buddies. Yeah.

*tear rolls down cheek, candle in the wind plays*

ZeroWolf wrote:I forget how rottentomatoes works, does it go by user submitted reviews or critics from other websites, or does it do both? My question is this however, what's the purpose of this thread? Are you trying to get people on board with your opinion about the movies being bad?

Nothing like that. I just think it's interesting. You can say "The Phantom Menace sucks" and people will jump right on board with you.

But point out that Revenge of the Fallen was really terribly written, and people get all upset.

Just trying to solicit some discussion, not trying to change any minds.

Pfft, you can't measure a movie's quality by reviews, you need to use ticket sales!

cruizerdave wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:I forget how rottentomatoes works, does it go by user submitted reviews or critics from other websites, or does it do both? My question is this however, what's the purpose of this thread? Are you trying to get people on board with your opinion about the movies being bad?

Nothing like that. I just think it's interesting. You can say "The Phantom Menace sucks" and people will jump right on board with you.

But point out that Revenge of the Fallen was really terribly written, and people get all upset.

Just trying to solicit some discussion, not trying to change any minds.

Fair enough, though some people also like Phantom Menace despite problems. Revenge of the Fallen though, I thought revenge of the Fallens writting problems were due to the writers strikes and Bay finished the writing.

Noideaforaname wrote:Pfft, you can't measure a movie's quality by reviews, you need to use ticket sales!

So if something makes money, it's good?

How very Republican of you!

Also, by that litmus test, The Phantom Menace is the 17th best film of all time.

Who cares? You either like a movie, or you don't. Stating all sorts of facts and figures from across the internet won't change another persons mind.

rottentomatoes can suck my ****

ya i love both franchises but i go to roten tomatoes as a second review spot. So i usually dont agree with them anyway

ya i love both franchises but i go to roten tomatoes as a second review spot. So i usually dont agree with them anyway

cruizerdave wrote:People tend to lash out at you if you mention that you don't like the Michael Bay Transformer films for their stupid plots, idiotic characters, racism and general brainlessness.

Now I just happened to be looking at Rottentomatoes this morning and found something interesting ...

Transformers - 57%
Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen - 19%
Transformers: Dark of the Moon - 36%
Transformers: Age of Extinction - 17%

Star Wars Episode I - 57%
Star Wars Episode II - 67%
Star Wars Episode III - 80%

So this means that the very best Transformers film is tied with the Phantom Menace as far as response from film reviewers.

Those were critics reviews. Not viewer reviews. Viewer reviews for all Transformers movies were above 90%.

Either way i never let reviews whether they be critis or viewers decide if i'm going to see a movie. I'll decide that for myself thank you very much.

SlyTF1 wrote:
Too bad none of the movies even have stupid plots, racism, or brainlessness. Idiotic characters is debatable.

That's sarcasm right? Like, that has to be sarcasm...I may like those movies well enough but they have plenty of all 4 of those things. You can't just blindly ignore something's flaws just to like it.

JetOptimus23 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:
Too bad none of the movies even have stupid plots, racism, or brainlessness. Idiotic characters is debatable.

That's sarcasm right? Like, that has to be sarcasm...I may like those movies well enough but they have plenty of all 4 of those things. You can't just blindly ignore something's flaws just to like it.

I'm not ignoring a damn thing.

SlyTF1 wrote:

JetOptimus23 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:
Too bad none of the movies even have stupid plots, racism, or brainlessness. Idiotic characters is debatable.

That's sarcasm right? Like, that has to be sarcasm...I may like those movies well enough but they have plenty of all 4 of those things. You can't just blindly ignore something's flaws just to like it.

I'm not ignoring a damn thing.

So absolutely no racist charicatures, no gaping plotholes, no overall lack of thought in story and characterization? I wish I saw a Transformers movie with none of that but I didn't. I wanna watch the one you saw.

JetOptimus23 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

JetOptimus23 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:
Too bad none of the movies even have stupid plots, racism, or brainlessness. Idiotic characters is debatable.

That's sarcasm right? Like, that has to be sarcasm...I may like those movies well enough but they have plenty of all 4 of those things. You can't just blindly ignore something's flaws just to like it.

I'm not ignoring a damn thing.

So absolutely no racist charicatures, no gaping plotholes, no overall lack of thought in story and characterization? I wish I saw a Transformers movie with none of that but I didn't. I wanna watch the one you saw.

Nobody exhibited any racist tenancies in any of the movies until Attanger in AOE, when he was prejudice against the Cybertronians. There are no blot holes. And all the stories felt like they were well thought out enough, to me.

SlyTF1 wrote:

JetOptimus23 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

JetOptimus23 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:
Too bad none of the movies even have stupid plots, racism, or brainlessness. Idiotic characters is debatable.

That's sarcasm right? Like, that has to be sarcasm...I may like those movies well enough but they have plenty of all 4 of those things. You can't just blindly ignore something's flaws just to like it.

I'm not ignoring a damn thing.

So absolutely no racist charicatures, no gaping plotholes, no overall lack of thought in story and characterization? I wish I saw a Transformers movie with none of that but I didn't. I wanna watch the one you saw.

Nobody exhibited any racist tenancies in any of the movies until Attanger in AOE, when he was prejudice against the Cybertronians. There are no blot holes. And all the stories felt like they were well thought out enough, to me.

"No racist tendencies"

(Also in the first film Jazz is the only Autobot "coded" black and he is also the only to die, and gets the least lines. Just some extra racism for you)

"No plotholes"
http://movieplotholes.com/transformers- ... holes.html
http://movieplotholes.com/transformers- ... -moon.html
http://www.movieplotholes.com/transform ... holes.html



No really did we watch the same movie series.

JetOptimus23 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

JetOptimus23 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

JetOptimus23 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:
Too bad none of the movies even have stupid plots, racism, or brainlessness. Idiotic characters is debatable.

That's sarcasm right? Like, that has to be sarcasm...I may like those movies well enough but they have plenty of all 4 of those things. You can't just blindly ignore something's flaws just to like it.

I'm not ignoring a damn thing.

So absolutely no racist charicatures, no gaping plotholes, no overall lack of thought in story and characterization? I wish I saw a Transformers movie with none of that but I didn't. I wanna watch the one you saw.

Nobody exhibited any racist tenancies in any of the movies until Attanger in AOE, when he was prejudice against the Cybertronians. There are no blot holes. And all the stories felt like they were well thought out enough, to me.

"No racist tendencies"

(Also in the first film Jazz is the only Autobot "coded" black and he is also the only to die, and gets the least lines. Just some extra racism for you)

"No plotholes"
http://movieplotholes.com/transformers- ... holes.html
http://movieplotholes.com/transformers- ... -moon.html
http://www.movieplotholes.com/transform ... holes.html



No really did we watch the same movie series.

There's a lot wrong with all of this. But it'll have to wait until tomorrow. I'll just say this for now; Just because Mudflap and Skids couldn't read, have gold teeth, and spoke slang doesn't make them black? By your logic, black people are the only people ever who can have all of those characteristics at once. And remember, Wheelie, Bumblebee, nor any of the other Autobots could read it, either. I guess they must have been black, too.

SlyTF1 wrote:

JetOptimus23 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

JetOptimus23 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

JetOptimus23 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:
Too bad none of the movies even have stupid plots, racism, or brainlessness. Idiotic characters is debatable.

That's sarcasm right? Like, that has to be sarcasm...I may like those movies well enough but they have plenty of all 4 of those things. You can't just blindly ignore something's flaws just to like it.

I'm not ignoring a damn thing.

So absolutely no racist charicatures, no gaping plotholes, no overall lack of thought in story and characterization? I wish I saw a Transformers movie with none of that but I didn't. I wanna watch the one you saw.

Nobody exhibited any racist tenancies in any of the movies until Attanger in AOE, when he was prejudice against the Cybertronians. There are no blot holes. And all the stories felt like they were well thought out enough, to me.

"No racist tendencies"

(Also in the first film Jazz is the only Autobot "coded" black and he is also the only to die, and gets the least lines. Just some extra racism for you)

"No plotholes"
http://movieplotholes.com/transformers- ... holes.html
http://movieplotholes.com/transformers- ... -moon.html
http://www.movieplotholes.com/transform ... holes.html



No really did we watch the same movie series.

There's a lot wrong with all of this. But it'll have to wait until tomorrow. I'll just say this for now; Just because Mudflap and Skids couldn't read, have gold teeth, and spoke slang doesn't make them black? By your logic, black people are the only people ever who can have all of those characteristics at once. And remember, Wheelie, Bumblebee, nor any of the other Autobots could read it, either. I guess they must have been black, too.

Aaaah but here's the thing. Skids and Mudflap aren't not racist simply by the fact that they're robots from an alien planet. They're what's called "coded" black, which means the creator of the character put in mannerisms and physical features that express to the audience that this character is supposed to be that. So in fact it's not the viewer being racist for recognizing that Micheal Bay's awful, stereotypical view of black culture in the Twins, its Bay's racism for coding them as such. There were less offensive ways to indicate that a character was "urban", like Jazz for example. Making them more like Jazz would've been more acceptable, but instead Bay's view of black urban culture is foul mouthed, illiterate, stupid comic relief who do nothing important the whole movie. And only one of them was voiced by an actual black person. I'm not saying you can't like the movies, but you also can't ignore its problems. This isn't opinion here, an opinion would be "I didn't really like Skids and Mudflap's characters". A fact would be "Skids and Mudflap are coded as black urban youths using horrible stereotypes to capitalize on for comic relief". Just try to look at movies with a more critical eye in the future, and your enjoyment will be far better I promise.

cruizerdave wrote:People tend to lash out at you if you mention that you don't like the Michael Bay Transformer films for their stupid plots, idiotic characters, racism and general brainlessness.

To be fair, the plots had some pretty cool ideas and concepts (most, if not all, of them were dug up from established story arcs from TF comics or animation shows in the first place). The problem was with the execution--ideas were introduced but many were not properly followed up on, and the slipshod editing compounded the problem. I've said this before, but TF movies were never meant to hold up after the first few viewings.

As for racism, well, I've seen people of all races acting and talking like the Twins, because it's cool.

The idiotic characters, you can blame on Bay--and Spielberg, to a lesser degree. Bay hired Shia, Luis Ramon (Leo) and John Turturro. But if one wants to get at the root of the problem, it was Spielberg who pushed the "boy and his first car" idea, which Bay doesn't do well with. If Bay had it his way, TF1 would have been like AoE, except Josh Duhamel would've taken Cade's role. Basically, Bay is good at making movies about macho characters like soldiers and tough guys. Force him to "go urban" and you get Shia and the Comedy Club.

Bay might be a bit of a one trick pony, but he's perfect for what TF1 could have been. But then Spielberg had to force his ideas down the man's throat. Seriously, if he wanted Transformers to be done his way, then he should have directed it himself.

ZeroWolf wrote:

cruizerdave wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:I forget how rottentomatoes works, does it go by user submitted reviews or critics from other websites, or does it do both? My question is this however, what's the purpose of this thread? Are you trying to get people on board with your opinion about the movies being bad?

Nothing like that. I just think it's interesting. You can say "The Phantom Menace sucks" and people will jump right on board with you.

But point out that Revenge of the Fallen was really terribly written, and people get all upset.

Just trying to solicit some discussion, not trying to change any minds.

Fair enough, though some people also like Phantom Menace despite problems. Revenge of the Fallen though, I thought revenge of the Fallens writting problems were due to the writers strikes and Bay finished the writing.

You, good sir, deserve a virtual cookie:

SKYWARPED_128 wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:

cruizerdave wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:I forget how rottentomatoes works, does it go by user submitted reviews or critics from other websites, or does it do both? My question is this however, what's the purpose of this thread? Are you trying to get people on board with your opinion about the movies being bad?

Nothing like that. I just think it's interesting. You can say "The Phantom Menace sucks" and people will jump right on board with you.

But point out that Revenge of the Fallen was really terribly written, and people get all upset.

Just trying to solicit some discussion, not trying to change any minds.

Fair enough, though some people also like Phantom Menace despite problems. Revenge of the Fallen though, I thought revenge of the Fallens writting problems were due to the writers strikes and Bay finished the writing.

You, good sir, deserve a virtual cookie:

Thank you sir Ah the good kind of virtual cookie

Also you're right about people acting that way. In fact when I saw RotF I thought the twins were supposed to be white guys wanting to be black I have a lot of people who act like that living on my street.

That's an awfully large sig violation you got going there JetOptimus23.

SlyTF1 wrote:

JetOptimus23 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

JetOptimus23 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

JetOptimus23 wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:
Too bad none of the movies even have stupid plots, racism, or brainlessness. Idiotic characters is debatable.

That's sarcasm right? Like, that has to be sarcasm...I may like those movies well enough but they have plenty of all 4 of those things. You can't just blindly ignore something's flaws just to like it.

I'm not ignoring a damn thing.

So absolutely no racist charicatures, no gaping plotholes, no overall lack of thought in story and characterization? I wish I saw a Transformers movie with none of that but I didn't. I wanna watch the one you saw.

Nobody exhibited any racist tenancies in any of the movies until Attanger in AOE, when he was prejudice against the Cybertronians. There are no blot holes. And all the stories felt like they were well thought out enough, to me.

"No racist tendencies"

(Also in the first film Jazz is the only Autobot "coded" black and he is also the only to die, and gets the least lines. Just some extra racism for you)

"No plotholes"
http://movieplotholes.com/transformers- ... holes.html
http://movieplotholes.com/transformers- ... -moon.html
http://www.movieplotholes.com/transform ... holes.html



No really did we watch the same movie series.

There's a lot wrong with all of this. But it'll have to wait until tomorrow. I'll just say this for now; Just because Mudflap and Skids couldn't read, have gold teeth, and spoke slang doesn't make them black? By your logic, black people are the only people ever who can have all of those characteristics at once. And remember, Wheelie, Bumblebee, nor any of the other Autobots could read it, either. I guess they must have been black, too.

What about the human black guy in ROTF that was working at the butcher shop to save up money to fix his teeth? Don't you think he was kinda of an offensive characterization?

Or Anthony Anderson's character living with his grandma that "don't want nobody on her carpet, especially no police!" Not a racist characterization?