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Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:23 am
by GeekyGamer Gal
Burn wrote:But that doesn't say to me Knight "cares", he grew up with them, that doesn't scream "fanboy".

Just seems to me it's two directors who have two different styles working with a bunch of different writers.

And it's time people accepted that the writers need to be held to task/lauded as well instead of blaming/praising just the director. As far as I'm concerned, the Bay movies got progressively worse as the writers changed.

So this whole "Travis Knight cares about the franchise" is baseless. He has a different style to directing and he had a decent writer to work with.


Not completely. I know I mentioned before that I've watched a lot of Knight's LAIKA work, where he's been pretty much everything before directing Kubo and the two strings. In the bonus features for Kubo, Knight pretty much lays out how when he had a basic script for the movie and decided that it was to have a feudal/warring states period feel he dove into research. He spend months researching for how the characters should look, act, on how the sets should look, and what would be considered appropriate for that time period. He reached out to a couple of Japanese historical societies and museums to get the approval for his design choices, and then went above and beyond by making the more fantastical environments reflect the ukiyo-e woodblock prints. It was after he had the look completed that he then worked on the script and reworked it to better reflect what he had researched and changed with his sets and characters.

Knight is by far more meticulous and detail oriented than Bay on how his movie should work, which could be very well a by product of his stop motion animation background. Bay has stated in his interviews/behind the scenes that he's left the research to others and that he focuses more on how the visuals for the special effects look rather than how the scenes flow. I will however also state that the editing process can be a movie killer as well.

Long speech over with just this final comment. Movies have a lot of fingers in the clay shaping them, and yes directors will get most of the credit or blame because their name is always listed first, and they always have the chance to force a writer change or rework the script while in production. :lol: Then if the studio doesn't like it then they'll just fire the director, and get somebody else in there to take the fall. :lol:

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:57 pm
by Ironhidensh
Well, after reading and watching several interviews with Knight, he has made it clear that he is a fan and did a lot of research on the subject. Bay never once made any impression of that sort, he just made Bay movies that had robots in them.

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:50 pm
by Burn
So it's not so much that he "cares about Transformers", but more so "he cares about his craft".

I had nothing against Bay's style, but for me, with each change of writers, the movies got worse and worse. Christina Hodson deserves a good chunk of credit as well.

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:03 pm
by ZeroWolf
Burn wrote:So it's not so much that he "cares about Transformers", but more so "he cares about his craft".

I had nothing against Bay's style, but for me, with each change of writers, the movies got worse and worse. Christina Hodson deserves a good chunk of credit as well.

As someone who doesn't care about the G1 bleed in with the Cybertron scenes, I would say she deserves most of the credit, I reckon even Bay would have had a hard time turning it into a bad movie.

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:12 pm
by Sabrblade
Burn wrote:So it's not so much that he "cares about Transformers", but more so "he cares about his craft".
I'd say Bay cares very much about his craft. Countless interviews with both him and members of his film and production crew have talked about how meticulous and passionate he is about things like cinematography and special effects. Getting just the right angles, using the best possible technology to capture the scene just right, that sort of thing.

Granted, that's a different kind of "caring about the craft" than what's been said of Knight doing research and showing a loving appreciation towards the source material, but both men love different aspects of the craft.

I think it best boils down to, for better or for worse (it's all opinionated) what Lindsay Ellis once said in one of her video essays discussing the Transformers films through the lenses of film studies:

"In the intersection between the Bay politique and Transformers lies the answer both to why the films have been so successful, and why many fans of the franchise find the films so noxious. Bay politique appeals to a main stream, but it does not line up with the sincere honorship of nostalgia. The message in Michael Bay's Transformers about Transformers is not 'Let's leave these wonderful creations in the innocent world of children where they belong,' it's more along the lines of 'Why would you wanna play with plastic toys when you can play with titties, you *bleep*in' losers?' So when people say 'Michael Bay raped my childhood,' ...what they really mean is Michael Bay added politique to something innocent. Michael Bay took this memory of a property that I hold fondly and robbed it of its magical, nostalgic value by dragging it into this idea of things that 'really' matter like the military, titties, and cars, which are all shown as vastly superior to the childlike quality of the franchise itself. It isn't really even about political affiliation or world views so much as its reverence for the source material, of which Michael Bay has none, which is why people who have a vague memory of the Transformers franchise (i.e. - most people) tend to respond more positively to these movies than people with a more intense knowledge and affinity for the franchise."

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:11 pm
by Burn
Sabrblade wrote:I'd say Bay cares very much about his craft.

He does, just because I didn't say doesn't mean I was saying he didn't.

They're two very different Directors who had very different writers.

To me, Bumblebee was an okay movie, it was a definite improvement over Age of Extinction and Last Knight, but I went into Bumblebee burned from those two movies, and that's probably why I don't necessarily agree with everyone who lauds praise on Bumblebee.

What it did prove to me though is that you can actually have a good decent Transformers movie, but what hasn't changed in my mind though is that it comes back to the writers. Bay movies got progressively worse as the writers changed. They found a talent in Hodson who has the potential to be a writer for female leads (we'll see how Birds of Preys (and the blah blah blah of Harley Quinn) goes).

So going forward, they need to find a decent writer who can be backed up by the right Director. The Knight/Hodson combo worked for this particular movie, but on a larger scale with a larger TF cast, I have my reservations about them.

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:30 pm
by Deadput
If it makes any sense I think a difference about how it is could be separated like this.

Bay wanted to craft a good movie that so happened to have Transformers in it.

Knight wanted to craft a good Transformer movie.

Neither are technically inferior to the other, it's just different approaches to a franchise.

It's really just Knight and Bay Seriously their names really make an awesome coincidence for a sentence like that

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:27 pm
by notirishman
What's the Netflix offering? Do they mean just the shows on Netflix?

2 Screen Plays Confirmed in Development for Sequels in Transformers Live Action Franchise

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:28 am
by william-james88
The main Transformers film franchise producer, Lorenzo di Bonaventure, stated he is currently overseeing the scripting of two Transformers films sequels. He said so as part of a bigger interview to a Japanese movie news website as part of the Bumblebee press tour. One of the films is the next big tentpole Transformers film to follow The Last Knight, while the other is a sequel to Bumblebee. Please keep in mind that the film following the last Knight was already said to be a new experience and thus may involve a new storyline rather than finishing what was started in the Last Knight. The Bumblebee sequel is said to be a buddy movie featuring Optimus and Bumblebee. So one would take place in the past while the other in the present.

Here is a quote from the website:

Throughout the day, Di Bonaventura talks with smiles," Our greatest mission is to the audience To be satisfied, "to meet the expectations of the audience." To that end, he and his colleagues are already working on a new series. "We are already working on two projects and are in the process of writing a script. One is the latest in the main family series following Transformers: The Last Knight and the other is a sequel to Bumblebee So, we are thinking of works where Optimus Prime and Bumblebee will be the buddy (buddy), but when Optimus and Bumblebee are the movies of the protagonists ... how human beings get involved in their drama In the first place, the size is different between human beings and theirs .... It's a worrying point (laughs).


Without a doubt, puts the whole kibosh on fans wanting a complete reboot. Of course, the fact that the same producer overseeing the entire franchise at paramount had confirmed that there was no reboot all along was also a pretty good hint.

Image

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 9:45 am
by ZeroWolf
Will be interesting to see where they go with the next film (I mean the one that isn't Bumblebee movie 2)

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:12 am
by cruizerdave
Last Knight Sequel—
Please no. No sequel to the Last Knight. It was the worst one yet in a parade of garbage that has gotten progressively worse with each film. Please no. These are trash films that can only be enjoyed by mocking them and watching them as a joke. The characters all act like they are high on cocaine, the robots aren't even treated as characters, the stories contradict themselves, the scripts are banal, the humor isn't funny to anyone but stoned frat boys, the women are objectified and there are racist and misogynist themes throughout.
Also, they are aggressively stupid.
Please, just make them stop.


Bumblebee sequel —
Okay, I'll go to that.

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:23 am
by ZeroWolf
I don't think they are bringing bay back for the mainline movies do expect bee movie storytelling to bleed through.

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:27 am
by boyatlarge
I think a sequel to The Last Knight would be great! As long as it starts out with a flashback to the final moments of The Last Knight, then suddenly you see Optimus Prime waking up in his bed all upset, and he's his old G1 self, and Alita-One, lying next to him, asks him if he had a bad dream, and he's like, "Oh, man, a nightmare," referring to the entire Bay-verse run and we all learn it was all just a dream and not part of canon and the movie proceeds from there.

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:36 am
by Decepticon Stryker
Meh. >:oP

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:36 am
by Decepticon Stryker
I really don't care about the movies themselves anymore
Mostly because they turn everyone into hateful idiots.

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:07 am
by Sabrblade
Decepticon Stryker wrote:I really don't care about the movies themselves anymore
Mostly because they turn everyone into hateful idiots.
Except for the Bumblebee movie. ;)

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:16 am
by Ratman_tf
I bailed out of the Bay films with Dark of the Moon, so have no interest in a sequel to Last Knight.
I am interested in the Bumblebee sequel.

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:06 pm
by Agent 53
I'm not Anti-Bayverse like some, but I do have a concern for a Last Knight sequel.
Last Knight built up to Unicron, if they're keeping the old continuity then that has to be where they go next, it's literally the only move they have, and I cannot see a way for them to do Justice to Unicron without destroying the Earth.
This was one of my few issues with Prime; Unicron is the big, planet eating devil of the transformers Mythology and by making him the core of earth they removed any chance of him fulfilling the classic role.
It's almost Ironic, the Aligned universe maintains Unicron's Evil space god role, but completely deviates from the real Unicron imagery, for the worse in my view, while IDW nailed a modern take on Unicron's appearence, but then eliminated his Evil God thing (the final nail in the 'deconstruct all transformer mythology' the last year or so of the old universe seemed to focus on) and made him a weapon of vengeance against Cybertron.
Can't we just get Unicron with all the best bits. Well obviously not in the films unless they actually do destroy the Earth.
Hey, maybe they'll reboot after that, I mean IDW hit reboot after doing Unicron, And with the corner they're painted into they have no choice, they could even have it that destoying Unicron caused some qauntum surge and caused the timeline to reset, with the slast shots of the film being Cybertron as seen in Bumblebee. For that with Bumblebee 2, since last I heard official word now say it is a different timeline, can they retcon that he didn't scan a Camaro, or changed his mind and re-scanned a Beetle, please, Bumblebee Bumblebee may not have been a perfect representation of G1 Bee, but he was still the best Bumblebee we've had, because Bee is meant to be the little guy, the small car, there are litterally dozens of autobots that can turn into big cars, give us our Bug back!

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:12 pm
by ZeroWolf
Where did you hear that its a different timeline? Bee 2 is not a reboot, it's a prequel-sequel set between bee and Transformers 07. As been stated there has been no rebooting. I suspect if anything they may just conviently forget all about the last knight for the whole and just keep the other four movies and move on from there (or establish that unicron inside the earth is only the gods intelligence which escapes into the cosmos after playing a game of possess the bot and there merges asteroids till he's the planet eater we all know)

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:19 pm
by Barricade.it
I didn't dislike TLK but it wasn't a TFMovie, it was something completely different. AOE was even worse, in my opinion but AOE was somehow in the continuity and, moreover, had some way of development for the plot: TLK is a colpete dead eand. Even though there was that woman in the final walking near the horn of unicron, the plot went too astray to be seriously developed. For example: what is supposed to do the whole planet Earth with Cybertron lying on its surface?

I think that anyhow a new movie will start form TLK it will be a complete disaster.

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:25 pm
by Black Hat
Well this kinda sucks, but it's to be expected I suppose. As long as it's not as outstandingly bad as TLK I'll be OK with it- I enjoyed every movie that wasn't TLK, so who knows, there might be a chance of it not being atrocious.

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:28 pm
by ZeroWolf
Black Hat wrote:Well this kinda sucks, but it's to be expected I suppose. As long as it's not as outstandingly bad as TLK I'll be OK with it- I enjoyed every movie that wasn't TLK, so who knows, there might be a chance of it not being atrocious.

Well there will almost certainly be a different director attached and probably a new writer.

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:30 pm
by Black Hat
ZeroWolf wrote:
Black Hat wrote:Well this kinda sucks, but it's to be expected I suppose. As long as it's not as outstandingly bad as TLK I'll be OK with it- I enjoyed every movie that wasn't TLK, so who knows, there might be a chance of it not being atrocious.

Well there will almost certainly be a different director attached and probably a new writer.

Honestly I don't blame Bay for TLK being so bad-I lay that blame at the feet of the "writers' room" (and also Izabella, AKA the WORST human character in the movieverse, which is saying something). Keep Bay and give him a decent writer to work with and IMO you have a good chance of a good movie.

Of course Knight as director would be better, but I'd take Bay.

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:44 pm
by william-james88
Sabrblade wrote:
Decepticon Stryker wrote:I really don't care about the movies themselves anymore
Mostly because they turn everyone into hateful idiots.
Except for the Bumblebee movie. ;)

Except for the step dad ;) ;)

Barricade.it wrote:but AOE was somehow in the continuity and, moreover, had some way of development for the plot

Also AOE did something none of the other films did, they had Prime be a main character.

Re: Discussion on Next Live Action Transformers Film after Bumblebee

PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:04 pm
by Deadput
william-james88 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Decepticon Stryker wrote:I really don't care about the movies themselves anymore
Mostly because they turn everyone into hateful idiots.
Except for the Bumblebee movie. ;)

Except for the step dad ;) ;)

Barricade.it wrote:but AOE was somehow in the continuity and, moreover, had some way of development for the plot

Also AOE did something none of the other films did, they had Prime be a main character.


I thought the step dad was fine.

He made me laugh anyways.