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transformers_va wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:Y U just look at the movies while conveniently ignoring the toys and merchs sales?

Because this thread/discussion is about about the movies

That wasn't the discussion since at least 20 posts and you know it.

-Kanrabat- wrote:That wasn't the discussion since at least 20 posts and you know it.

If you have verifiable metrics of toys/merch sales per movie, then I'd be happy to add that to the totals, but it will likely lead to the same conclusion - Bayverse drove fans away from the franchise, and NOT in small numbers.

Thankfully Travis' Bumblebee started turning that around, but that uptick will doubtlessly be reversed if Lorenzo's comment about TF7 is correct ("We wanna deliver a film that has the scale and spectacle of the Bay films")

I wish they'd take a cue from Hasbro's CEO, when he stated "[Bumblebee] is successfully introducing Transformers to a new generation of kids and re-engaging our core fans around the world" <!-- keywords being "re-engaging our core fans"

Baynus pretty much had the effect Disney star wars did. Doesn't matter how cool the toys are unfortunately for some if the media's ended their fandom. Star wars is lucky that the mandnocannonlorian pulled some fans back. Safe to assume wfc and ss86 has for Tf too. I like giant robots so I'll buy the odd baynus bot despite my mind and wallet telling me it could have gone on a figure from media I like.
My sons pretty much only got eyes on my master made Tf stuff when I pop my cloggs though I'm sure some other stuff will make it onto his shelves too by that point.

blackeyedprime wrote:Baynus pretty much had the effect Disney star wars did.

100% agreed! I feel awful for the younger generation being introduced to Star Wars via Disney, rather than Lucas

blackeyedprime wrote:..my son wouldn't even watch the bumblebee film because of how bad the bay ones were"

As a longtime fan of Transformers, this is heartbreaking.. hopefully he'll see it one day, and realise that the Bay movies were (hopefully) an anomaly

transformers_va wrote:

blackeyedprime wrote:Baynus pretty much had the effect Disney star wars did.

100% agreed! I feel awful for the younger generation being introduced to Star Wars via Disney, rather than Lucas

And I feel awful for the generation that was introduced to Star Wars via Lucas prequel trilogy. (The generation I was introduced to it)

Seriously Star Wars movies are entertaining but there's only like 2-3 of the films that were actually "good", at least by the "high class" standards people have today.

The Last Knight film may have been sub par, but the toyline did brilliantly, and hasbro has pointed this out in the past to the investors. All the later bay films did was turn people away from the bay films, not the franchise itself.

Deadput wrote:

transformers_va wrote:

blackeyedprime wrote:Baynus pretty much had the effect Disney star wars did.

100% agreed! I feel awful for the younger generation being introduced to Star Wars via Disney, rather than Lucas

And I feel awful for the generation that was introduced to Star Wars via Lucas prequel trilogy. (The generation I was introduced to it)

Seriously Star Wars movies are entertaining but there's only like 2-3 of the films that were actually "good", at least by the "high class" standards people have today.

If we're being honest, that would only be Empire...which Lucas didn't direct.. also one of the best Star wars films, Rogue One, is a Disney film.

ZeroWolf wrote:

Deadput wrote:

transformers_va wrote:

blackeyedprime wrote:Baynus pretty much had the effect Disney star wars did.

100% agreed! I feel awful for the younger generation being introduced to Star Wars via Disney, rather than Lucas

And I feel awful for the generation that was introduced to Star Wars via Lucas prequel trilogy. (The generation I was introduced to it)

Seriously Star Wars movies are entertaining but there's only like 2-3 of the films that were actually "good", at least by the "high class" standards people have today.

If we're being honest, that would only be Empire...which Lucas didn't direct.. also one of the best Star wars films, Rogue One, is a Disney film.

I'd take any of the Ewoks films over Rogue One hahahahaha as for last Knight toys selling well, you mean other than that big dragon one thats probably keeping the Atari ET cartridges company XD

The TLK toy line did well probably was due to the simplified transformation and Dinosaurs!!!!!!! And that's OK by me (as a collector), I just pick & choose what's worth buying for me OR the kids. Again, for me, AoE & TLK got a different vibe to Bay TF1-3, they's their own thing and a different kind of cool (and uncool). My head would explode if I try to blend all of Bay's TF1-5 into a timeline.

If you ask me, the Bay-directed movies helped advance the engineering of TF figures like never before, and bring the franchise's recognition into a much bigger audience's consciousness. Thanks the Primes for that, and that fact ALONE can make me forgive(?) the dozen or so hours I "wasted" watching them.

But as a "good" movie, it is IMO the BBB movie that's the best so far to bring in kids into the franchise. It got a proper 80's vibe to it that's more endearing to watch with the whole family than anything before it (yes, even the 86 one) at the theater, and I hope future movies got that element to it. It's warm & charming, nothing crazy plot- or TF ethos rewriting-wise, and still got a dollops of action set pieces. Just a decent movie that hardcore and casual TF fans can get into. Don't bash it because you went in expecting "MCU in TF-skin" action smash-fest but you instead saw an "E.T." style of a family-orientated movie. Movie genres can co-exist in a franchise like TF. It's just too bad Hasbro didn't design much toys around that movie. Hope Hasbro can rectify most of that mistake in the Studio Series line.

cloudballoon wrote:The TLK toy line did well probably was due to the simplified transformation and Dinosaurs!!!!!!!

That sounds more like the AOE line. TLK was more "Dragons/Knights!!!!!!!" than "Dinosaurs!!!!!!!".

Speaking as someone who got into Star Wars thanks to the prequels (still my favorite by far, Empire to me is one of the worst Star Wars films put to screen) and into Transformers thanks to the movies (and actually enjoyed all 6 live action ones to date, even TLK), I think some of you are massively underestimating those respective markets and their impact. All of the movie Bees I have are the reason you guys got a Haslab Unicron and 2 different iterations of your favorite Ark bots between Prime Wars and WFC. It's that simple.

If it weren't for the movies, we probably would have kept on the BW/BM/RiD2001/UT train, with some good series sprinkled in with some subpar, the bots always looking different and no one complaining about the "name slapping" (which to me is ridiculous to say).

Movies brought in fans. Movies made a crap ton of toys that a lot of people bought and brought them on board. My generation exists. We have had a huge impact. And if anything would make people want to jump ship, TLK probably would have the same impact as Prime Wars and WFC, because all 3 of those are of similar quality with a lot of the same issues.

Get off the entitlement horse. It's unbecoming. After 6 movies ya'd think it would have been better.

I am excited for the movie and what has been revealed so far. I am excited to see what happens. I love all the live action movies, and I am excited to see the bots on screen again

Sabrblade wrote:

transformers_va wrote:Too bad we're still getting that crappy Camaro Bee, and that he's probably still a main character. If they have to include him, I REALLY hope they at least finally drop that "Bee doesn't have a voice" crap

You know they won't do that. These Hollywood chums see it as too iconic to eliminate.

And as long as Bayverse Bee is around, the Bayverse will still live on, muahahahaha

transformers_va wrote:If you have verifiable metrics of toys/merch sales per movie, then I'd be happy to add that to the totals, but it will likely lead to the same conclusion - Bayverse drove fans away from the franchise, and NOT in small numbers.

LOLOLOLOL
So I guess it wasn't fans giving Hasbro all this money for the increase output of toys that has lead to us now having at least 3 main lines at all times rather than 1 to satisfy increased demand for TF toys. Only 5 year olds and grandmas buy Studio Series figs, everyone knows that!

Will, you're dealing with adamant Bay haters and even if you put their fingers in the stigmas, they would still refuse to believe that the Transformers franchise is so strong and alive today thanks to the Bay movies.

----------

On a related note, it's too bad that the G.I Joe movies failed in that regard. Let's hope the Snake Eye movie will put the now obscure brand back into the mainstream. A "MP only" line with no vehicles and barely any characters only made for collectors ain't gonna cut it.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:Speaking as someone who got into Star Wars thanks to the prequels (still my favorite by far, Empire to me is one of the worst Star Wars films put to screen) and into Transformers thanks to the movies (and actually enjoyed all 6 live action ones to date, even TLK), I think some of you are massively underestimating those respective markets and their impact. All of the movie Bees I have are the reason you guys got a Haslab Unicron and 2 different iterations of your favorite Ark bots between Prime Wars and WFC. It's that simple.

If it weren't for the movies, we probably would have kept on the BW/BM/RiD2001/UT train, with some good series sprinkled in with some subpar, the bots always looking different and no one complaining about the "name slapping" (which to me is ridiculous to say).

Movies brought in fans. Movies made a crap ton of toys that a lot of people bought and brought them on board. My generation exists. We have had a huge impact. And if anything would make people want to jump ship, TLK probably would have the same impact as Prime Wars and WFC, because all 3 of those are of similar quality with a lot of the same issues.

Get off the entitlement horse. It's unbecoming. After 6 movies ya'd think it would have been better.

No doubt, the movies DID bring in fans, I have NEVER argued differently. However, it has also pushed a large number of fans away.. the very same fans that have a large amount of disposable income, when compared to a much younger fan

Wow! Talk about entitlement, your generation also brought us Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus, etc. Just because you're here, doesn't mean you have taste Case in point, your favourite are the prequels? Your opinion of the Star Wars speaks volumes

"Every generation imagines itself to be more intelligent than the one that went before it.."

william-james88 wrote:

transformers_va wrote:If you have verifiable metrics of toys/merch sales per movie, then I'd be happy to add that to the totals, but it will likely lead to the same conclusion - Bayverse drove fans away from the franchise, and NOT in small numbers.

LOLOLOLOL
So I guess it wasn't fans giving Hasbro all this money for the increase output of toys that has lead to us now having at least 3 main lines at all times rather than 1 to satisfy increased demand for TF toys. Only 5 year olds and grandmas buy Studio Series figs, everyone knows that!

I'm sorry, are you so short-sighted as to not understand that those numbers could have been SO much higher had they NOT created such crappy movies/characters?

Scratch that, since it diverges from the main point that I was making, which is Bay movies drove away large numbers of fans

transformers_va wrote:
Scratch that, since it diverges from the main point that I was making, which is Bay movies drove away large numbers of fans

Please name each and everyone of them along their date of birth and social security number.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

transformers_va wrote:
Scratch that, since it diverges from the main point that I was making, which is Bay movies drove away large numbers of fans

Please name each and everyone of them along their date of birth and social security number.

Sure.. I'll get right on that

-Kanrabat- wrote:

transformers_va wrote:
Scratch that, since it diverges from the main point that I was making, which is Bay movies drove away large numbers of fans

Please name each and everyone of them along their date of birth and social security number.

If these large numbers of fans were driven away because of a couple of movies then they're weak and thats why noone will remember their names lol #fakefans

Just look at live action movies like DragonBall, TMNT and Death Note. Although I doubt any fans bought toys from the movies they hated hahahaha doesn't matter though

transformers_va wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

transformers_va wrote:If you have verifiable metrics of toys/merch sales per movie, then I'd be happy to add that to the totals, but it will likely lead to the same conclusion - Bayverse drove fans away from the franchise, and NOT in small numbers.

LOLOLOLOL
So I guess it wasn't fans giving Hasbro all this money for the increase output of toys that has lead to us now having at least 3 main lines at all times rather than 1 to satisfy increased demand for TF toys. Only 5 year olds and grandmas buy Studio Series figs, everyone knows that!

I'm sorry, are you so short-sighted as to not understand that those numbers could have been SO much higher had they NOT created such crappy movies/characters?

Scratch that, since it diverges from the main point that I was making, which is Bay movies drove away large numbers of fans

I showed you the proof you asked for that the movies brought in a ton of money and new fans, I mean they must be new right?!. Now where is your proof that a significant amount of fans are no longer giving Hasbro money? I don't see it. And the fact that people complain of not enough toys on the shelves only proved the opposite. If many fans left, I guess they had 0 impact.

That's the power of BAY

Razorbeast88 wrote:If these large numbers of fans were driven away because of a couple of movies then they're weak and thats why noone will remember their names lol #fakefans

It's not weakness, it's disappointment/anger/sadness because ppl know it could have been SO much better. Bay gave us crappy movies and crappy characters!

transformers_va wrote:

Razorbeast88 wrote:If these large numbers of fans were driven away because of a couple of movies then they're weak and thats why noone will remember their names lol #fakefans

It's not weakness, it's disappointment/anger/sadness because ppl know it could have been SO much better. Bay gave us crappy movies and crappy characters!

You can dislike the movies while still acknowledging that they were a net boon to brand (spoken as someone who does exactly that).

transformers_va wrote:

Razorbeast88 wrote:If these large numbers of fans were driven away because of a couple of movies then they're weak and thats why noone will remember their names lol #fakefans

It's not weakness, it's disappointment/anger/sadness because ppl know it could have been SO much better. Bay gave us crappy movies and crappy characters!

Eh, the GIJoe movies were horrendous but Snake Eyes seems somewhat promising (mostly because I'm a fan of Andrew Koji in The Warrior)

I'm sure with patience there will be less divisive transformers movies in the future lol

william-james88 wrote:I showed you the proof you asked for that the movies brought in a ton of money and new fans

No, in fact, you apparently missed the point entirely lol The point was that Bayverse drove away a large number of fans, which is evident by a 200 million dollar drop in box-office draw. The ask, which wasn't part of my original argunent, and ONLY brought in to humour Kanrabat, was:

transformers_va wrote:If you have verifiable metrics of toys/merch sales per movie, then I'd be happy to add that to the totals, but it will likely lead to the same conclusion - Bayverse drove fans away from the franchise, and NOT in small numbers."

The so-called metrics that you provided neither showed the breakdown, nor was it complete

Autobot N wrote:You can dislike the movies while still acknowledging that they were a net boon to brand (spoken as someone who does exactly that).

I've NEVER argued the opposite.. of course they were a boon to the brand, but they could have been MUCH better received had they NOT chosen Bay's crappy direction (as evident by Travis' Bumblebee)