The Energon Pub

ok, one thing that's been bugging me is Bay made a big deal out of making sure mass was conserved (megatron not transforming into a pistol, making Prime into a Peterbilt rather than cab over engine to achieve 30 ft in robot mode), but how could he explain the Allspark shrinking into a tiny cube?

it can be allowed because it is like the god of transformers.
it has magicall powers

Mass has nothing to do with size.

Maybe it weighed very little, even in it's large mode. They built the Hoover Dam around it, right? Maybe they never actually moved it at all.


Or maybe Bay and Don Murphy are a bunch of lying cheats that just thought it was stupid to make Megatron a gun.

I, for one, am glad Megs didn't turn into a gun. Sure, I would have appreciated the G1 nod if the Cybertronian jet had a big barrel making it resemble a gun, but it's just weird for the big leader to become a tiny weapon wielded by his traitorous second-in-command.

The closest analogy I've been able to come up with how the All Spark did that, is how the Sun is going to expand over the course of the next few billion years as it expends its hydrogen, and goes from the compact size that it is now to where it's big enough to (it is thought) engulf the orbits of Mercury, Venus and Earth (gulp!). Even though it will have much the same mass throughout the whole time.

So maybe the All Spark keeps the same mass but it's just "spread out" a bit. In which case the "large mode" for the All Spark really does weigh as much as the smaller size.

Why didn't it travel to Earth in the small mode? It's much easier to move, and use much less energy to go the distance.

Dark Zarak wrote:Maybe it weighed very little, even in it's large mode. They built the Hoover Dam around it, right? Maybe they never actually moved it at all.

When the Cube got small, Sam had no trouble carrying it.

Maybe the big Allspark was just an illusion made by Mirage.

TheKnightShift wrote:The closest analogy I've been able to come up with how the All Spark did that, is how the Sun is going to expand over the course of the next few billion years as it expends its hydrogen, and goes from the compact size that it is now to where it's big enough to (it is thought) engulf the orbits of Mercury, Venus and Earth (gulp!). Even though it will have much the same mass throughout the whole time.

So maybe the All Spark keeps the same mass but it's just "spread out" a bit. In which case the "large mode" for the All Spark really does weigh as much as the smaller size.

If that were the case it'd be more than likely that that asteroid that hit it in outer space in the intro would have destroyed it, instead of the opposite happening. No the writers said they wanted to touch on mass-shifting in the first movie, but thought that if they overused it & actually used it for a couple of robots, people wouldn't be able to suspend their disbelief enough to enjoy the movie.

An_de wrote:

Dark Zarak wrote:Maybe it weighed very little, even in it's large mode. They built the Hoover Dam around it, right? Maybe they never actually moved it at all.

When the Cube got small, Sam had no trouble carrying it.

You don't get my point.

I'm saying it weighs very little regardless of its size. So of course Sam had no trouble carrying it.

Looks like the Allspark is also a Transformer itself.

Dark Zarak wrote:

An_de wrote:

Dark Zarak wrote:Maybe it weighed very little, even in it's large mode. They built the Hoover Dam around it, right? Maybe they never actually moved it at all.

When the Cube got small, Sam had no trouble carrying it.

You don't get my point.

I'm saying it weighs very little regardless of its size. So of course Sam had no trouble carrying it.

But it was so heavy in large mode that the S7 guys can't move it.

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:If that were the case it'd be more than likely that that asteroid that hit it in outer space in the intro would have destroyed it, instead of the opposite happening. No the writers said they wanted to touch on mass-shifting in the first movie, but thought that if they overused it & actually used it for a couple of robots, people wouldn't be able to suspend their disbelief enough to enjoy the movie.

I dunno man, we don't know what the All Spark is made of exactly: there are materials we can produce on Earth right now that have low mass but some amazing properties, like tensile strength, resistance to high temperatures etc. Aerogel comes to mind. There's no telling how much cooler stuff wound up being created "out there" in the Transformers' section of space

TheKnightShift wrote:

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:If that were the case it'd be more than likely that that asteroid that hit it in outer space in the intro would have destroyed it, instead of the opposite happening. No the writers said they wanted to touch on mass-shifting in the first movie, but thought that if they overused it & actually used it for a couple of robots, people wouldn't be able to suspend their disbelief enough to enjoy the movie.

I dunno man, we don't know what the All Spark is made of exactly: there are materials we can produce on Earth right now that have low mass but some amazing properties, like tensile strength, resistance to high temperatures etc. Aerogel comes to mind. There's no telling how much cooler stuff wound up being created "out there" in the Transformers' section of space

Like Kryptonite?

Auto Bot wrote:Why didn't it travel to Earth in the small mode? It's much easier to move, and use much less energy to go the distance.

In space once you start moving you stay moving, no matter how big or small you are. The cube just floated through space so it wasnt expending energy at all, it was just drifting and crash landed on earth because earth was in its way.

Robinson wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Why didn't it travel to Earth in the small mode? It's much easier to move, and use much less energy to go the distance.

In space once you start moving you stay moving, no matter how big or small you are. The cube just floated through space so it wasnt expending energy at all, it was just drifting and crash landed on earth because earth was in its way.

If it had only landed on the moon, Megatron wouldn't have sunk into the ice and he would have had the Cube in his hands.

Robinson wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Why didn't it travel to Earth in the small mode? It's much easier to move, and use much less energy to go the distance.

In space once you start moving you stay moving, no matter how big or small you are. The cube just floated through space so it wasnt expending energy at all, it was just drifting and crash landed on earth because earth was in its way.

We have to assume it's accelerating, and changing vectors. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a mystery to the Cybertronians to finding it. Just follow the path of the initial launch. And you'll get it in no time. But it took them a long time, and a very wide (spanning galaxies) search space.

Nemesis Cyberplex wrote:

TheKnightShift wrote:The closest analogy I've been able to come up with how the All Spark did that, is how the Sun is going to expand over the course of the next few billion years as it expends its hydrogen, and goes from the compact size that it is now to where it's big enough to (it is thought) engulf the orbits of Mercury, Venus and Earth (gulp!). Even though it will have much the same mass throughout the whole time.

So maybe the All Spark keeps the same mass but it's just "spread out" a bit. In which case the "large mode" for the All Spark really does weigh as much as the smaller size.

If that were the case it'd be more than likely that that asteroid that hit it in outer space in the intro would have destroyed it, instead of the opposite happening. No the writers said they wanted to touch on mass-shifting in the first movie, but thought that if they overused it & actually used it for a couple of robots, people wouldn't be able to suspend their disbelief enough to enjoy the movie.

ok this makes sense, i can buy the "not abusing it so much that the audience won't believe" argument. as for the allspark weighing the same in its expanded size as it does as a cube, that's baloney, im sorry. sector 7 would've just moved it.

hey, the only thing sector 7 did right was get their names inked on the back of their underoos.

Auto Bot wrote:

Robinson wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Why didn't it travel to Earth in the small mode? It's much easier to move, and use much less energy to go the distance.

In space once you start moving you stay moving, no matter how big or small you are. The cube just floated through space so it wasnt expending energy at all, it was just drifting and crash landed on earth because earth was in its way.

We have to assume it's accelerating, and changing vectors. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a mystery to the Cybertronians to finding it. Just follow the path of the initial launch. And you'll get it in no time. But it took them a long time, and a very wide (spanning galaxies) search space.

They couldnt ust follow the initial launch because as it showed in the intro that it was bouncing off of objects(meteors) so those would alter the initial trajectory enough to make it harder to track.

Robinson wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:

Robinson wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:Why didn't it travel to Earth in the small mode? It's much easier to move, and use much less energy to go the distance.

In space once you start moving you stay moving, no matter how big or small you are. The cube just floated through space so it wasnt expending energy at all, it was just drifting and crash landed on earth because earth was in its way.

We have to assume it's accelerating, and changing vectors. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a mystery to the Cybertronians to finding it. Just follow the path of the initial launch. And you'll get it in no time. But it took them a long time, and a very wide (spanning galaxies) search space.

They couldnt ust follow the initial launch because as it showed in the intro that it was bouncing off of objects(meteors) so those would alter the initial trajectory enough to make it harder to track.

We wouldn't have that kind of a problem if it's in the small mode. Well, at least, much much lesser chance of encountering that problem.

Auto Bot wrote:

Dark Zarak wrote:

An_de wrote:

Dark Zarak wrote:Maybe it weighed very little, even in it's large mode. They built the Hoover Dam around it, right? Maybe they never actually moved it at all.

When the Cube got small, Sam had no trouble carrying it.

You don't get my point.

I'm saying it weighs very little regardless of its size. So of course Sam had no trouble carrying it.

But it was so heavy in large mode that the S7 guys can't move it.

It said that in the movie?

Well then it's Bay hypocrisy plain and simple. We got a movie directed by a guy who hates TF's.

Dark Zarak wrote:

Auto Bot wrote:

Dark Zarak wrote:

An_de wrote:

Dark Zarak wrote:Maybe it weighed very little, even in it's large mode. They built the Hoover Dam around it, right? Maybe they never actually moved it at all.

When the Cube got small, Sam had no trouble carrying it.

You don't get my point.

I'm saying it weighs very little regardless of its size. So of course Sam had no trouble carrying it.

But it was so heavy in large mode that the S7 guys can't move it.

It said that in the movie?

Well then it's Bay hypocrisy plain and simple. We got a movie directed by a guy who hates TF's.

Precisely.

Heres an interesting concept... what if the laws of physics didn't matter because.... its a science-FICTION movie... about robots.... whose source material involved breaking almost every law of physics...

Seriously... does it really matter? When they were talking about no mass shifting... I'm like 99% sure they were talking about the 'bots and 'cons. Not some cube shaped plot point. Besides seeing the thing fold up like that when bumblebee "activated" it was a pretty cool scene.

Can we just accept the fact that either they didn't say all of what they meant, or the fact that its hollywood and anything goes.

But if you really want to go into this i support the whole "no mass shifting for the transformers, etc etc etc"

Well, you still got to respect some physics laws and scientific theories.

Otherwise, it wouldn't be science-fiction. But only, just plain fiction.