The Energon Pub

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 4:55 pm**

....Okay first let me say I enjoy the movie and I have been a TF fan since 1984. I was over at a friend's house last night who is not a TF fan, but there was nothing on and since he knows I love TF's we ended up stopping on the movie. He had several questions that I really had no good answers for.

Why does being put on ice shut them down when they can travel through the icy depts of deep space unprotected? Also the intense heat of entering the atmosphere doesn't seen to harm them but the high heat ammo does?

Frenzy gets decapitated but is hardly even slowed down, but Jazz gets torn in half and dies. Also the Allspark completely regenerates Frenzy, why doesn't BB use it to repair his legs in the final battle.

In the final battle everyone seems to agree that it's a great idea to get the Allspark loaded onto a helicopter, why? The Decepticons have air superiority. Won't they just take out the heli and pick the Allspark out of the rubble?

Why does Megs navigation system come online and react to A. Witwicky the way it does?

Lastly why is the Allspark destroyed by loading it into a TF's spark? I can see why it destroyes the TF, the raw power must overload and destroy the spark, although this does tend to contradict the way it healed Frenzy. I don't see why the Allspark would be destroyed in this process though.

I hate to nitpick, and like I said earlier I do enjoy the movie for what it is, but it seems when people who aren't wrapped up in the fact that this is the live action TF movie we've always wanted to see watch the film they tend to have a lot of questions.

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 6:32 pm**

I think I might be able to provide you with some fairly reasonable answers to some of these questions. Let's see what sort of hogwash I can come up with.

OptimusPrimeRib wrote:Why does being put on ice shut them down when they can travel through the icy depts of deep space unprotected? Also the intense heat of entering the atmosphere doesn't seen to harm them but the high heat ammo does?

In space they would be cold, but there wouldn't be anything to freeze to them, plus they seem to have an additional protective cover when in space. You can even see parts of it breaking off and burning up as the Autobots are entering the atmosphere. Megatron was stuck because he was froen inside a glacier and would likely have every nook and cranney of his body filled with ice. Bumblebee wasn't encased in ice, but he was being held captive by humans and fighting back would likely hurt them, which is a big no no for an Autobot.

Also, I think there's a misunderstanding about how the ammunition used against the Decepticons actually works. Based on the brief description Epps gave on the plane, it sounds like they're using a type of anti-tank round that would utilize a shaped charge warhead to create a highly contentrated explosion to burn a hole through a tanks armor. Although, they also call them sabot rounds, and a sabot is actually the extra break-away cover used to allow certain slimmer varieties of ammunition to fit into the cannon. Usually, these would be armor peircing rounds that rely on kenetic energy rather than explosive force, but there could be some of the later.

Frenzy gets decapitated but is hardly even slowed down, but Jazz gets torn in half and dies. Also the Allspark completely regenerates Frenzy, why doesn't BB use it to repair his legs in the final battle.

My best guess would be that Frenzy's spark is in his head, while Jazz's spark is in the middle of his body. That's only a guess though, and Transformers have always been rather ambiguous about what will and won't kill one. G1 Brawn died from being shot once in the shoulder, yet Ultra Magnus was blown to peices and easily repaired.

The rapairing I think is another thing that comes down to the differences between Autobot and Decepticon outlooks. Frenzy is a lot more willing to use(exploit?) the Allspark's power for his personal gain than Bumblebee is.

In the final battle everyone seems to agree that it's a great idea to get the Allspark loaded onto a helicopter, why? The Decepticons have air superiority. Won't they just take out the heli and pick the Allspark out of the rubble?

I can understand that Lennox would think it was a good idea at first, since he had only seen Blackout and Scorponok and wouldn't have realised how much airpower the Decepticons had, but as soon as Starscream made his first attack, you'd think he would change his plans a little bit. I'd think the Autobots would have a few objections with this plan, too.

Guess I didn't really answer that one, did I?

Why does Megs navigation system come online and react to A. Witwicky the way it does?

Uuuuummmm..... A wizard did it?

Lastly why is the Allspark destroyed by loading it into a TF's spark? I can see why it destroyes the TF, the raw power must overload and destroy the spark, although this does tend to contradict the way it healed Frenzy. I don't see why the Allspark would be destroyed in this process though.

Maybe the overloading spark causes some feedback that overlaods the Allspark as well? That's about all I can think off. That or a wizard did that, too.

I hate to nitpick.

You shouldn't. Pointing out a movie's foibles is part of the enjoyment process.

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 10:40 pm**

In the final battle everyone seems to agree that it's a great idea to get the Allspark loaded onto a helicopter, why? The Decepticons have air superiority. Won't they just take out the heli and pick the Allspark out of the rubble?

I can understand that Lennox would think it was a good idea at first, since he had only seen Blackout and Scorponok and wouldn't have realised how much airpower the Decepticons had, but as soon as Starscream made his first attack, you'd think he would change his plans a little bit. I'd think the Autobots would have a few objections with this plan, too.

Guess I didn't really answer that one, did I? [/quote]

Well given they were down two Autobots (Jazz Dead, and Bumblebee's damaged legs), Megatron's presence, being pinned down by three elite Decepticons and their leader, and the early arrival of the Blackhawks, which most likely were on patrol nearby, they had to act prematturely before air cover could arrive to hold off Megatron, Starscream, and Blackout.

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 11:25 pm**

OptimusPrimeRib wrote:....Okay first let me say I enjoy the movie and I have been a TF fan since 1984. I was over at a friend's house last night who is not a TF fan, but there was nothing on and since he knows I love TF's we ended up stopping on the movie. He had several questions that I really had no good answers for.

Why does being put on ice shut them down when they can travel through the icy depts of deep space unprotected? Also the intense heat of entering the atmosphere doesn't seen to harm them but the high heat ammo does?

Frenzy gets decapitated but is hardly even slowed down, but Jazz gets torn in half and dies. Also the Allspark completely regenerates Frenzy, why doesn't BB use it to repair his legs in the final battle.

In the final battle everyone seems to agree that it's a great idea to get the Allspark loaded onto a helicopter, why? The Decepticons have air superiority. Won't they just take out the heli and pick the Allspark out of the rubble?

Why does Megs navigation system come online and react to A. Witwicky the way it does?

Lastly why is the Allspark destroyed by loading it into a TF's spark? I can see why it destroyes the TF, the raw power must overload and destroy the spark, although this does tend to contradict the way it healed Frenzy. I don't see why the Allspark would be destroyed in this process though.

I hate to nitpick, and like I said earlier I do enjoy the movie for what it is, but it seems when people who aren't wrapped up in the fact that this is the live action TF movie we've always wanted to see watch the film they tend to have a lot of questions.

No Questions! Spend your money! Spend! SPEND! Tell you friends to spend money too! SPEND!!!

Honestly? Just remember that the director is a no-talent hack who will make a crappy movie and not question whatever script is in front of him unless he can somehow make it worse.

Posted: **Mon May 12, 2008 11:40 pm**

Not bad questions....Unfortunately these movies were not made by George Lucas who IMO does an ok job at answering questions in sequels and prequels. I don't know about this bay man. I don't think he knew how big the TF fan base was prior to taking this project.

Good questions, but I doubt the sequels will answer them.

Posted: **Tue May 13, 2008 12:04 am**

All your questions have the same answer: because the people who made this movie DON'T CARE. They're in it just for the money. Lorenzo di Bonaventura is a businessman who doesn't know squat about the properties he's buying and selling, nor does he care to know. As long as profit > investment that's all that matters. Michael Bay's inability to make a movie that doesn't rely on special effects speaks for itself. These two surround themselves with yes men and that's why you get a movie that doesn't make sense.

Posted: **Tue May 13, 2008 12:23 am**

First just let me say I appreciate that no one attacked me for questioning the almighty movie. I mean that, a lot of time members go straight to the defensive and then the thread just turns into people hurling insults at one another. While I still haven't seen any answers or come up with any of my own that work all that well, I guess sometimes you just got to go with it and not overthink things. We are after all talking about a movie about giant shapeshifting alien robots.

Posted: **Tue May 13, 2008 12:42 am**

OptimusPrimeRib wrote:First just let me say I appreciate that no one attacked me for questioning the almighty movie. I mean that, a lot of time members go straight to the defensive and then the thread just turns into people hurling insults at one another. While I still haven't seen any answers or come up with any of my own that work all that well, I guess sometimes you just got to go with it and not overthink things. We are after all talking about a movie about giant shapeshifting alien robots.

True. Honestly, we've all asked the same questions about this movie... and then some of us go back and watch some G1 cartoons and realize that TFs on ANY screen will have you saying "WTF?!?"

Posted: **Tue May 13, 2008 2:13 pm**

Rampage01 wrote:
Frenzy gets decapitated but is hardly even slowed down, but Jazz gets torn in half and dies. Also the Allspark completely regenerates Frenzy, why doesn't BB use it to repair his legs in the final battle.

My best guess would be that Frenzy's spark is in his head, while Jazz's spark is in the middle of his body. That's only a guess though, and Transformers have always been rather ambiguous about what will and won't kill one. G1 Brawn died from being shot once in the shoulder, yet Ultra Magnus was blown to peices and easily repaired.

The "Spark in the head" makes sense, especialy after Mikayla totaly decapitates Frenzy, yet his head is able to walk on its own, be used as a soccer ball

, and even scan a seperate altmode (although the last one violates the 'no size changing" rule that was a major player in keeping some favorites out of the movie :-(

) As for the G1 deaths: Hey, it's G1, everything defied physics! 8-}

Posted: **Tue May 13, 2008 3:11 pm**

OptimusPrimeRib wrote:Why does being put on ice shut them down when they can travel through the icy depts of deep space unprotected?

They don't. Well, not regularly. One of the books said that they use ships for Trans-warp drive and long-distance ships, while they usually eave the ship to fight, and take on that Comet-mode for re-entry.

Megatron was an arrogant douche, and thought he didn't need the comet mode. And such, re-entry messed him up, and he ended up passing out in the Arctic, where he was encased in ice for a few thousand years.

OptimusPrimeRib wrote:Also the intense heat of entering the atmosphere doesn't seen to harm them but the high heat ammo does?

The comet mode protects them in re-entry, and the high-heat rounds are much more focused.

OptimusPrimeRib wrote:Frenzy gets decapitated but is hardly even slowed down, but Jazz gets torn in half and dies. Also the Allspark completely regenerates Frenzy, why doesn't BB use it to repair his legs in the final battle.

I have to agree with Rampage01 here. I also noticed that whenever a Transformer dies or is abut to die, it'll drop a blue, glowing liquid. I assume this is Energon, or some kind of blood for them.

OptimusPrimeRib wrote:In the final battle everyone seems to agree that it's a great idea to get the Allspark loaded onto a helicopter, why? The Decepticons have air superiority. Won't they just take out the heli and pick the Allspark out of the rubble?

I think Lennox was planning on Starscream being dead at that point.

OptimusPrimeRib wrote:Why does Megs navigation system come online and react to A. Witwicky the way it does?

A wizard.

OptimusPrimeRib wrote:Lastly why is the Allspark destroyed by loading it into a TF's spark? I can see why it destroyes the TF, the raw power must overload and destroy the spark, although this does tend to contradict the way it healed Frenzy. I don't see why the Allspark would be destroyed in this process though.

It doesn't contradict anything. Frenzy had a shot of penicillin, Megatron was force-fed a truck-load. The Allspark was empty afterwards.

Posted: **Tue May 13, 2008 8:09 pm**

I can see your point about Frenzy only getting a little Allspark while Megs got the whole thing. Like is stated in my orignal post it most likely overloaded him, that makes some sense. My main question is why did this destroy the Allspark. The Allspark is supposed to be this godlike device the brought Cybertron to life. This is a very rough anology but assuming one believes in God, that's like putting all of God's power into one person's soul. I can see how that might kill the person, but why would God be destroyed too? For that matter why did the Allspark just "flow" into Megs the way it did.

Posted: **Wed May 14, 2008 12:23 am**

OptimusPrimeRib wrote:Why does Megs navigation system come online and react to A. Witwicky the way it does?

That might be a backup in case he's ever incapacitated one of the other Decepticons can find the Allspark and use it to fix him.

Lastly why is the Allspark destroyed by loading it into a TF's spark? I can see why it destroyes the TF, the raw power must overload and destroy the spark, although this does tend to contradict the way it healed Frenzy. I don't see why the Allspark would be destroyed in this process though.

The Allspark itself is energy, when it was put in Meg's chest it drained it. Like discharging a battery all at once.

But thats just a guess.

Posted: **Wed May 14, 2008 1:38 am**

OptimusPrimeRib wrote:I can see your point about Frenzy only getting a little Allspark while Megs got the whole thing. Like is stated in my orignal post it most likely overloaded him, that makes some sense. My main question is why did this destroy the Allspark. The Allspark is supposed to be this godlike device the brought Cybertron to life. This is a very rough anology but assuming one believes in God, that's like putting all of God's power into one person's soul. I can see how that might kill the person, but why would God be destroyed too? For that matter why did the Allspark just "flow" into Megs the way it did.

All of it's power ended up in one place that wasn't meant to hold it all. Since it's cube-shell ended up breaking from the release, it had no place else to go and died.

Posted: **Thu May 15, 2008 9:54 pm**

I have a couple of questions, though not as big as those you asked.

First: When did Sam find time to put his pants back on after being chased by Frenzy? Hell, when did he go back to pick up his pants?

Second: How can Sam survive a multi-story drop with Prime clutching him firmly to his very solid, hard metal chest? it's exactly the same as hanging onto the floor of an elevator as it plummets to the ground. You still go splat.

Posted: **Thu May 15, 2008 10:21 pm**

Arucard wrote:I have a couple of questions, though not as big as those you asked.

First: When did Sam find time to put his pants back on after being chased by Frenzy? Hell, when did he go back to pick up his pants?

Second: How can Sam survive a multi-story drop with Prime clutching him firmly to his very solid, hard metal chest? it's exactly the same as hanging onto the floor of an elevator as it plummets to the ground. You still go splat.

1. They probably picked it up when they grabbed Mikaela's bag. He probably put them on before Bumblebee reformatted.

2. He had support on both sides, so I assume it would hurt less.

By the way, it's spelled Alucard, as in, Dracula spelled backwards. Arucard doesn't make any sense.

Posted: **Fri May 16, 2008 4:49 am**

Arucard wrote:
Second: How can Sam survive a multi-story drop with Prime clutching him firmly to his very solid, hard metal chest? it's exactly the same as hanging onto the floor of an elevator as it plummets to the ground. You still go splat.

The same way Spike survived playing Football with the Autobots and Ironhide landing on top of him in G1.

Posted: **Fri May 16, 2008 5:13 am**

So much for Bay's realism.

Posted: **Sat May 17, 2008 2:41 am**

OptimusPrimeRib wrote:First just let me say I appreciate that no one attacked me for questioning the almighty movie. I mean that, a lot of time members go straight to the defensive and then the thread just turns into people hurling insults at one another. While I still haven't seen any answers or come up with any of my own that work all that well, I guess sometimes you just got to go with it and not overthink things. We are after all talking about a movie about giant shapeshifting alien robots.

Dude you asked good questions. No point in being trolled or flamed for that. Just keep asking the questions. Maybe they will get answered. It doesn't matter what the movie is about. It should still make sense and add up. Keep digging for more questions. In the long run it may make TF2 & TF3 better.

Posted: **Sat May 17, 2008 3:21 am**

OptimusPrimeRib wrote:I can see your point about Frenzy only getting a little Allspark while Megs got the whole thing. Like is stated in my orignal post it most likely overloaded him, that makes some sense. My main question is why did this destroy the Allspark. The Allspark is supposed to be this godlike device the brought Cybertron to life. This is a very rough anology but assuming one believes in God, that's like putting all of God's power into one person's soul. I can see how that might kill the person, but why would God be destroyed too? For that matter why did the Allspark just "flow" into Megs the way it did.

We don't know if the Allspark is REALLY destroyed. It has the ability to shrink and expand.

As far as repairing Bumblebee V. Frenzy. Frenzy got some radiation while the Allspark was fully expanded. Maybe Bumblebee needed the expanded mode to re create lost libs.

Also lets think about Frenzy for a sec. He was obviously a different species of transformer. Sorta like a reptile in a world of good and bad mammals. He didn't have the same exoskeleton, his eyes were blue & his spark was in his head.

Bonecrusher also lost his head and died. Scoponok lost his tail and his tail was still active.

Hopefully we can get a better look at Cybertron in TF2.

IMO all the Autobots favored one another. Bonecrusher, Barricade, Brawl & Blackout looked a lil alike. Megatron and Starscream had totally different heads, but also looked alike. black, gray, silver, and brown were the colors used for the Decepticons. My first few viewings I didn't know who was who!!! I don't think all of the transformers are the same species. Especially on the Decepticon side.

Posted: **Sat May 17, 2008 10:24 am**

buddhaquest wrote:
OptimusPrimeRib wrote:First just let me say I appreciate that no one attacked me for questioning the almighty movie. I mean that, a lot of time members go straight to the defensive and then the thread just turns into people hurling insults at one another. While I still haven't seen any answers or come up with any of my own that work all that well, I guess sometimes you just got to go with it and not overthink things. We are after all talking about a movie about giant shapeshifting alien robots.

True. Honestly, we've all asked the same questions about this movie... and then some of us go back and watch some G1 cartoons and realize that TFs on ANY screen will have you saying "WTF?!?"

I would just like to point at that one was a half hour weekly serial made for children while the other was a multimillion dollar movie that was designed to start a franchise. I would expect to say WTF with a cheapie show, but not a movie many people spent a lot of time and money on.

Posted: **Sat May 17, 2008 12:50 pm**

Arucard wrote:I have a couple of questions, though not as big as those you asked.

First: When did Sam find time to put his pants back on after being chased by Frenzy? Hell, when did he go back to pick up his pants?

Second: How can Sam survive a multi-story drop with Prime clutching him firmly to his very solid, hard metal chest? it's exactly the same as hanging onto the floor of an elevator as it plummets to the ground. You still go splat.

1st. If I was Sam, I would have left the pants and then said "OOPS! I forgot my pants, Mikala /:)

"

2nd. He's made of sterner stuff.

Posted: **Mon May 19, 2008 10:16 pm**

Why does being put on ice shut them down when they can travel through the icy depts of deep space unprotected? Also the intense heat of entering the atmosphere doesn't seen to harm them but the high heat ammo does?

The comet forms protected them especially internally. Megatron was in jet form, got superheated by the atmosphere, then supercooled in the Artic which put him into a "stasis lock."

Frenzy gets decapitated but is hardly even slowed down, but Jazz gets torn in half and dies. Also the Allspark completely regenerates Frenzy, why doesn't BB use it to repair his legs in the final battle.

Frenzy's spark may be in his head and he being able to be a head and survive may just be a defense mechanism since he is tiny and very frail in comparison to most other Transformers. Jazz getting ripped in half probably caused a massive shock to the system which may not have killed him instantly but since there was no way to repair him he reached the point of no return

No one really knows how the AllSpark works but I guess it is always giving off some kind of radiation and since Frenzy is so small it didnt take much to reform him. Maybe the smaller version of it doesnt steadily give off radiation but rather in pulses which is why it seemingly "went off" and brought some things to life and not every machine around it.

In the final battle everyone seems to agree that it's a great idea to get the Allspark loaded onto a helicopter, why? The Decepticons have air superiority. Won't they just take out the heli and pick the Allspark out of the rubble?

It looked like the plan was to keep the Decepticons busy and get the AllSpark out of the city as quick as possible which was by helicopter. It was a plan but no one called it a good plan. They may have been following procedure.

Why does Megs navigation system come online and react to A. Witwicky the way it does?

Involuntary reaction probably. I dont think it was established whether Megatron was aware while immobilized or whether he was in a coma-like state. We know in the movie that Transformers naturally emit a form of radiation so maybe a massive burst that hit Witwicky is what effected him so adversely.

Lastly why is the Allspark destroyed by loading it into a TF's spark? I can see why it destroyes the TF, the raw power must overload and destroy the spark, although this does tend to contradict the way it healed Frenzy. I don't see why the Allspark would be destroyed in this process though.

I think it was an overload and then some kind of power reaction that caused the Allspark to disintegrate. 2 power sources while compatible in some aspects that shouldnt come in direct contact.

Posted: **Tue May 20, 2008 6:22 pm**

Well I still think most of these answers are really reaching, which is fine. The one thing that really bothers me is the "comet mode" and protection it seems to afford. This just really seems illogical. If they had developed this protective technology it would be quite foolish not to incorporate it into all modes, wether it be alt, bot, comet, etc..

Posted: **Tue May 20, 2008 6:57 pm**

OptimusPrimeRib wrote:Well I still think most of these answers are really reaching, which is fine. The one thing that really bothers me is the "comet mode" and protection it seems to afford. This just really seems illogical. If they had developed this protective technology it would be quite foolish not to incorporate it into all modes, wether it be alt, bot, comet, etc..

Probably the same reason we don't the heat-shielding from space-shuttles on regular cars; for one reason or another, we can't.

Posted: **Tue May 20, 2008 7:11 pm**

Shadowman wrote:
OptimusPrimeRib wrote:Well I still think most of these answers are really reaching, which is fine. The one thing that really bothers me is the "comet mode" and protection it seems to afford. This just really seems illogical. If they had developed this protective technology it would be quite foolish not to incorporate it into all modes, wether it be alt, bot, comet, etc..

Probably the same reason we don't the heat-shielding from space-shuttles on regular cars; for one reason or another, we can't.

That's true, but cars never had heat-shielding to begin with. The TF's have it then when they land they don't. That would be like a soilder traveling to a war zone wear bodyarmor for protection on the trip then removing it when they reach their destination.

The Energon Pub

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