The Energon Pub

SPOILERS FOR THE FEW OF YOU WHO HAVEN'T SEEN ROTF!











So in ROTF, when the Fallen is killed, Prime crushes his spark in his bare hand, effectivley ending his existance,

Now, obviously the destruction of a transformers spark = pure death.

Now, When Prime kills Grindor, he just tears his face in half, shows nothing of his spark being destroyed, so did Prime just inactivate Grindor's body? Also, with Jetfire, when he pulls out his spark, it is shown still glowing on the desert floor, so does that mean that Jetfire just sacrificed his body and that his consicousness is still in his spark on the desert floor?

Jazz was ripped in half, so I think that Jazz's spark got ripped in half also, just MHO.

Frenzy, I don't even know where his spark would be, Alice was run over so I think her spark was crushed by the car.

So is it possible that these guys could make a reappearence somewhere else with new bodies? I hope not....let dead giant robots stay dead/inactivated.

Just pondering.

That's an interesting thought, and since Jetfire was able to just hand his over... i don't see why anyone eles couldn't. But it probably operates closely to a human heart. So when Grindor was decapitated, his spark died out in the passing time. Where as Jetfire handed his over, and it was fused with Optimus IMMEDIATELY. Who knows really.

Jetfire's spark never merged with Prime (as far as I can tell)

So it was just sitting there glowing in all of it's bodiless wonder, but the question is did it actually become extinguished or could Ratchet save it and transplant it later (much like a human heart) and as far as I think, I don't think you NEED a body for your spark to work

Of course, I could just be going off on a limb here.

My best guess is that having one's head destroyed or severed will always deactivate the body. However, I would hazard a guess that the trauma of having your head destroyed will usually cause some sort of fatal feedback in the spark.

And then there are the odd ball cases of Transformers who apparently have their sparks in their heads, in which case decapitation mens nothing to them. I'm pretty sure Frenzy from first film was described that way.

if you use Prime's Beast Wars appearance, it should be seen a version of a heart.

Major damage to a body can damage the spark, where extra measures may be needed to keep it going, however it can exist on it's own for period of time before "death"

In that way, Grindor would only die, if the con's didn't retrieve and/or repair him.

Jetfire's sacrifice may not mean the end of him if it was possible to get the spark to a new body, however due to his age, separation from the body and lack of battlefield ability to give a new form, it's posible that his spark would not last as long as Grindors if both were just left where they were last seen.

I never followed Beast Wars that much, only when I had time to watch them, so I only caught snippets and couldn't get into Beast Machines.

But Editor, your answer does make sense.

So it's a given that Grindor is dead, but Jetfire I think still has a chance of being alive, but hopefully not in the next movie, not because I disliked the character, but just because to normal people, he sacrificed himself and he's dead.

Bloodlust, the little puzzler you've given us here is absolutely NEEDLESSLY complicated by the fact that there is no continuity even among the Bay films about *anything*, much less any continuity from a different 'verse. I mean, we could look at "Starscream's Ghost" in Beast Wars and say that kind of looks like a free-floating spark.

In most *canon* (which I know now that having received the Kiss of Love from Hasbro, Bayverse *is* canon, but I mean like non-bayverse canon) the spark is considered in a sense analogous more to the 'soul' than the heart. So the spark extinguished, the soul extinguished.

But here's what I mean about a puzzler: we see Starscream easily survive getting his arm ripped off. We saw Frenzy get lopped into bits in the first movie and manage to 'pull himself together'. Bots seem to survive some pretty horrific injuries. And then...Grindor gets decapitated--that doesn't necessarily mean 'death' for him--his spark's still intact, but we don't know (I'm with Editor on this, but then we have to ask ourselves...okay, where's Blackout? Where's Barricade, at the very least?). And the Fallen gets his face removed suddenly equals death? I suppose the 'answer' is that a Prime can kill just about anyone by some sort of Prime dim-mak or P.O.K.E., but that's just....laaaaaaaaaame.

(I'd love to see Frenzy--spark chamber in his head--get reactivated for TF3. In fact, I'd rather than expand the cast, they use the few they have and give them, like...I don't know...LINES and stuff?)

HK, trying to apply logic to the Bayverse 'canon' is like figuring out a zen koan.

If you're an important enough character, the writers will find a way to bring you back into the fold post-death, Spark be damned.

If your name isn't Prime, Megatron, Starscream, or Bumblebee, you better put some extra armor over that Spark and keep your head down.

hellkitty wrote:Bloodlust, the little puzzler you've given us here is absolutely NEEDLESSLY complicated by the fact that there is no continuity even among the Bay films about *anything*, much less any continuity from a different 'verse. I mean, we could look at "Starscream's Ghost" in Beast Wars and say that kind of looks like a free-floating spark.

In most *canon* (which I know now that having received the Kiss of Love from Hasbro, Bayverse *is* canon, but I mean like non-bayverse canon) the spark is considered in a sense analogous more to the 'soul' than the heart. So the spark extinguished, the soul extinguished.

But here's what I mean about a puzzler: we see Starscream easily survive getting his arm ripped off. We saw Frenzy get lopped into bits in the first movie and manage to 'pull himself together'. Bots seem to survive some pretty horrific injuries. And then...Grindor gets decapitated--that doesn't necessarily mean 'death' for him--his spark's still intact, but we don't know (I'm with Editor on this, but then we have to ask ourselves...okay, where's Blackout? Where's Barricade, at the very least?). And the Fallen gets his face removed suddenly equals death? I suppose the 'answer' is that a Prime can kill just about anyone by some sort of Prime dim-mak or P.O.K.E., but that's just....laaaaaaaaaame.

(I'd love to see Frenzy--spark chamber in his head--get reactivated for TF3. In fact, I'd rather than expand the cast, they use the few they have and give them, like...I don't know...LINES and stuff?)

HK, trying to apply logic to the Bayverse 'canon' is like figuring out a zen koan.

If you read the prequel for ROTF, Frenzy is reactivated by tapping into the electricity grid, so it's possible that he can still be alive, but it doesn't make sense since Frenzy was decapitated by Mikela in the first movie and reformatted into a cell phone, but in ROTF he is a head, but inactivated, that's just crazy....

Blackout was explained that Lennox got a miracle shot on Blackout and hit his spark with a M203 sabot round into it, far fetched, yes but thats the part I get....

The Fallen didn't die from having his face ripped off, he died from Prime punching through his chest and crushing his spark, the whole missing face thing would be a huge distraction in a battle though

Barricade died in the book, but he dissappeared in the movie, so who knows?

What do you think Grindor is thinking? Ouch, that hurt, is anybody going to come and help me out? Wait, never mind, i'm just going to sit here and die a slow death of starving for energon

Frenzy and Grindor had their heads ripped in half. Which would mean there's no brain left to maintain their sparks. Frenzy is much smaller and probably not as complex as most of the bots. Like how some lower lifeforms can be cut in half and survive.

The Spark doesnt need to be destroyed, there CPU or whatever can be destroyed, any major power or knowledge source in a TF, thats just like if a human would die only if you riped out their heart. The TFS could also loose all their, oil or sparks or whatever, I think in the movieverse their "blood" is blue sparks But when optimus rips Grindor's face off theres a red liquid squirting out of his neck so maby they have real blood too! Or maby the oil was red in that lighing! But Im just goin on about this.

SlyTF1 wrote:But when optimus rips Grindor's face off theres a red liquid squirting out of his neck so maby they have real blood too! Or maby the oil was red in that lighing!

That likely was Hydrolic fluids, for the actuators in his head.

As I said in another post I think 'Bayformers' are meant to be seen as living things. I think the quick 'DNA based computer' mentioned in the first movie is significant to the way we understand how these creatures work.

In ROTF, they seem to grow from hatchlings, breath, bleed, spit etc. Sure they can take punishment(I.E. arm ripped off) but pulling one's head apart would presumably destroy motor and cognitive function in the body, leaving the spark useless because; MAYBE (and I like this idea), a given spark is only compatible with a given body, so if one is damaged beyond repair the other is no longer any good. This would also explain, the focus on head/face destruction, destroying the higher functions of the body.