The Energon Pub

Gieferg wrote:Primes are travelling and looking for suns to harvest energy from them cause energon is needed for their race to survive - but what they do when Fallen tries to destroy Earth? Instead of taking the key (aka Matrix of leadership) far from Earth and continue to looking for another stars they sacrifice their lives to hide the key IN CLOSE NEIGHBOURHOOD of harvester itself. Maybe it's not plot hole per se, but those Primes looks like retards when they are acting like that.

Second - what is the point in whole pretender stuff, and putting diguised Decepticon into Sam's college, when Decepticons could just grab Sam from the street (like they eventually do) and take what they want from him?

Just Negare wrote:What about that all spark fragment that hussy had that she locked up? She just forgot about the thing while they were trying to find a piece of the all spark or something similar to revive Optimus?

Oh, and how it only took five minutes to drive from Jordan to Egypt?

Then the slip when the con were descending to get Megatron, six went down, one died to revive Megatron and seven came back up? Right.

And what about Optimus being a completely homicidal, (roboticidal??) maniac? That just screams "matrix bearer" doesn't it?

There are quite a few more, I've just managed to forget the majority of that filth because I haven't seen it since it came out.

Matt McDaniel wrote:1. In "Transformers," there was this giant battle in the middle of downtown Los Angeles -- excuse me, Mission City -- that was witnessed by thousands of people at the very least. But somehow the government was able to cover up the whole thing, and now the existence of alien robots is just an internet rumor? How did they do it? Pay off everyone who was there and quickly fix millions of dollars in damage? Also, didn't Keller (Jon Voight) go on TV and tell everyone we were being attacked by "a technological civilization far superior to our own"? How did they spin that?

2. There are two pieces of the Allspark cube left: the military has one under lock and key, and Sam discovers another. The Decepticons steal one and bring Megatron back to life. But when Sam (Shia LaBeouf) wants to bring back Optimus, he has to find the Matrix of Leadership on the other side of the globe. Why not use the other piece? Mikaela (Megan Fox) has it in her backpack the whole time. It brought his kitchen appliances to life, why can't it do the same for Optimus?

3. Speaking of Megatron's rebirth, when the Decepticons venture deep into the ocean to revive him, the Navy crew tracking them reads five contacts. When they get down there, they tear apart one of the robots for parts to rebuild Megatron. Then as they rise to the surface, the same Navy guys say they spot six contacts. The little "Doctor" robot popped out down there, but he's about a third of the size of a person. Would he have shown up on sonar?
4. That reminds me: even if I were to forgive the Doctor's German accent -- and director Michael Bay is asking me to forgive a lot of ridiculous accents -- why would a robot need glasses? He has little lenses that flip in front of his mechanical eyes. Couldn't he just get his eyes adjusted? You'd think with all the laser guns, someone could perform a Lasik procedure.

5. Apparently, Transformers can look like people now. How? And how is it that even though the robo-girl (Isabel Lucas) is made of metal, she can still straddle Sam without crushing him. And if Bumblebee knows something's wrong with her, why does he spit antifreeze at her instead of telling Sam? Yes, his voicebox is broken, but wasn't it fixed at the end of the last movie?

6. The Fallen is the last of the Primes, since they all sacrificed themselves to stop him from destroying the sun. But then he says that Optimus is a descendant of the Primes. First, Transformers have kids? And second, how could he descend from them if they were all dead? And if the Fallen could only be destroyed by a Prime, why didn't the originals just gang up on him back in the day? And what makes Optimus so special, anyway? Megatron beat him earlier, but all it takes is a few spare parts from creaky old Jetfire for him to take out the Fallen?

7. Sam, Mikaela, and Simmons (John Turturro) go to the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum in Washington D.C. to find Jetfire. Then they walk out the back onto a wide open field with old planes and mountains in the distance. When did the National Mall start to look so much like to Tucson, AZ (where they really filmed that scene)?

8. The geography is just as bad when they go to Egypt. The stone city of Petra in Jordan is over 250 miles away, over mountainous terrain, with few paved roads and the Israeli border between them, so how can they drive from one to the other in a couple of hours. And the Pyramids are said to be shooting distance from the Mediterranean, but they are actually well over 80 miles inland. Even if the Navy ship had a secret rail gun, and even if the captain would take an order to fire from a former agent of a government branch that no longer exists (over a walkie-talkie that inexplicably starts working again), how could it hit a moving target from that distance?

9. Sam briefly dies and goes to Robot Heaven. Robot Heaven?!?!

10. Where does Sam's bandage come from? What about his extra sock? Why does Sam's roommate not contribute anything at all? What was the Fallen doing for those thousands of years Megatron was frozen in ice? How does one satellite receive transmissions from everywhere on the planet? Why does Wheelie hump Mikaela's leg? Why do we have to see John Turturro's thong? Why are robots who join together to become Devastator also seen fighting the Army at the same time? Why does the government want only our military fighting Decepticons when our weapons seem unable to make so much as a dent on any of them? Why did the ancient Egyptians build a pyramid around the sun-destroying machines instead of just breaking it? Why is the Matrix of Leadership bigger in the Fallen's hand than in Sam's? And how do Mikaela's pants stay so clean?

Scatterlung wrote:

Matt McDaniel wrote:1. In "Transformers," there was this giant battle in the middle of downtown Los Angeles -- excuse me, Mission City -- that was witnessed by thousands of people at the very least. But somehow the government was able to cover up the whole thing, and now the existence of alien robots is just an internet rumor? How did they do it? Pay off everyone who was there and quickly fix millions of dollars in damage? Also, didn't Keller (Jon Voight) go on TV and tell everyone we were being attacked by "a technological civilization far superior to our own"? How did they spin that?

2. There are two pieces of the Allspark cube left: the military has one under lock and key, and Sam discovers another. The Decepticons steal one and bring Megatron back to life. But when Sam (Shia LaBeouf) wants to bring back Optimus, he has to find the Matrix of Leadership on the other side of the globe. Why not use the other piece? Mikaela (Megan Fox) has it in her backpack the whole time. It brought his kitchen appliances to life, why can't it do the same for Optimus?

3. Speaking of Megatron's rebirth, when the Decepticons venture deep into the ocean to revive him, the Navy crew tracking them reads five contacts. When they get down there, they tear apart one of the robots for parts to rebuild Megatron. Then as they rise to the surface, the same Navy guys say they spot six contacts. The little "Doctor" robot popped out down there, but he's about a third of the size of a person. Would he have shown up on sonar?
4. That reminds me: even if I were to forgive the Doctor's German accent -- and director Michael Bay is asking me to forgive a lot of ridiculous accents -- why would a robot need glasses? He has little lenses that flip in front of his mechanical eyes. Couldn't he just get his eyes adjusted? You'd think with all the laser guns, someone could perform a Lasik procedure.

5. Apparently, Transformers can look like people now. How? And how is it that even though the robo-girl (Isabel Lucas) is made of metal, she can still straddle Sam without crushing him. And if Bumblebee knows something's wrong with her, why does he spit antifreeze at her instead of telling Sam? Yes, his voicebox is broken, but wasn't it fixed at the end of the last movie?

6. The Fallen is the last of the Primes, since they all sacrificed themselves to stop him from destroying the sun. But then he says that Optimus is a descendant of the Primes. First, Transformers have kids? And second, how could he descend from them if they were all dead? And if the Fallen could only be destroyed by a Prime, why didn't the originals just gang up on him back in the day? And what makes Optimus so special, anyway? Megatron beat him earlier, but all it takes is a few spare parts from creaky old Jetfire for him to take out the Fallen?

7. Sam, Mikaela, and Simmons (John Turturro) go to the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum in Washington D.C. to find Jetfire. Then they walk out the back onto a wide open field with old planes and mountains in the distance. When did the National Mall start to look so much like to Tucson, AZ (where they really filmed that scene)?

8. The geography is just as bad when they go to Egypt. The stone city of Petra in Jordan is over 250 miles away, over mountainous terrain, with few paved roads and the Israeli border between them, so how can they drive from one to the other in a couple of hours. And the Pyramids are said to be shooting distance from the Mediterranean, but they are actually well over 80 miles inland. Even if the Navy ship had a secret rail gun, and even if the captain would take an order to fire from a former agent of a government branch that no longer exists (over a walkie-talkie that inexplicably starts working again), how could it hit a moving target from that distance?

9. Sam briefly dies and goes to Robot Heaven. Robot Heaven?!?!

10. Where does Sam's bandage come from? What about his extra sock? Why does Sam's roommate not contribute anything at all? What was the Fallen doing for those thousands of years Megatron was frozen in ice? How does one satellite receive transmissions from everywhere on the planet? Why does Wheelie hump Mikaela's leg? Why do we have to see John Turturro's thong? Why are robots who join together to become Devastator also seen fighting the Army at the same time? Why does the government want only our military fighting Decepticons when our weapons seem unable to make so much as a dent on any of them? Why did the ancient Egyptians build a pyramid around the sun-destroying machines instead of just breaking it? Why is the Matrix of Leadership bigger in the Fallen's hand than in Sam's? And how do Mikaela's pants stay so clean?

Movies don't take place in real time

Because he would have followed them, and if he caught them in space the Matrix would have been a lot easier to find than on Earth

Gieferg wrote:

Movies don't take place in real time

So what? Simmons was able to actually SEE what is happening in Egypt from Jordan. How stupid is that?

Because he would have followed them, and if he caught them in space the Matrix would have been a lot easier to find than on Earth

Yeah cause space is so little that there is no place to hide. What a bullshit. And they decided "screw our whole race, let them die, we gonna sacrifice our lives".


And what about big cannon taken out from somebody's ass when it was needed? It wasnt set up in a single word, and appear just when it was needed, but apparently could be used just once, cause when the Fallen was on top of pyramid nobody got an idea to use it again.

How long does it take to reload a gun that damn big, much less let it cool down?

Bloodlust wrote:1. The same way the government denies UFO's.....the MIB.

Bloodlust wrote:2. Bumblebee and the Twins LEFT THE SCENE after Optimus died and they didn't know that the shard had enough power to fully revive Optimus, it took the matrix to do that.

Bloodlust wrote:3. Already answered by Evil

Bloodlust wrote:4. That's like asking a surgeon who has 20/20 eyesight why they wear surgical loupes that magnify during surgery.

Bloodlust wrote:5. Well, there are G1 pretenders, and what about the fact the movie IS FICTION?

Bloodlust wrote:6. Books help a lot in these situations, Prime is an orphan or in another continuity he had the mark of the primes engraved on him. The orginals DID gang up but he was STRONGER....arghhh....i swear people......

Bloodlust wrote:7. That one can't really explain, but does that really affect the PLOt of the movie? Nope.

Bloodlust wrote:8. Yes, because there's no way an alien robot wouldn't be able to go 250mph......(also, as Evil said, movies aren't made in real time)

Bloodlust wrote:9. Who says heaven is exclusive to just humans?

Bloodlust wrote:10. A: His shirt
B: Who cares?
C: Surviving, he couldn't do anything while Prime was alive
D: Soundwave PWNS satellite....
E: Enter MB humor
F: See above
G: Devestator is huge so his alt mode is many vehicles, constructicons don't form devestator
H: It's a coalition.....pay attention
I: Do you really think a civilzation back in 13000 bc had the ability to break a super processed metal? I think not.
J: Things like that happen all the time in G1, it's called an animation error, no biggy.
K: They don't look that clean in egypt.

Gieferg wrote:

Movies don't take place in real time

So what? Simmons was able to actually SEE what is happening in Egypt from Jordan. How stupid is that?

Because he would have followed them, and if he caught them in space the Matrix would have been a lot easier to find than on Earth

Yeah cause space is so little that there is no place to hide. What a bullshit. And they decided "screw our whole race, let them die, we gonna sacrifice our lives".

And what about big cannon taken out from somebody's ass when it was needed? It wasnt set up in a single word, and appear just when it was needed, but apparently could be used just once, cause when the Fallen was on top of pyramid nobody got an idea to use it again.

Gieferg wrote:If there would be an explanation for all those BS in this movie, even stupid one, I wouldnt have any problem with that. But if something appears like bunny pulled out from a hat, then it is plot hole for me.

ROTF is one of the stupidest movies of all time and brain-shutdown is needed before watching it, but because it is Transformers I still like it in some way.

Scatterlung wrote:

Bloodlust wrote:1. The same way the government denies UFO's.....the MIB.

This is akin to simply saying "A wizard did it". You're talking about a group of human beings covering up millions of dollars worth of damage observed by countless people. Human beings screw up, how are they going to account for every person there? MiB are not super-people. Not to mention that, in this universe, the MiB would in fact be Sector Seven, who would presumably be disbanded before any covering up could be done.

Bloodlust wrote:2. Bumblebee and the Twins LEFT THE SCENE after Optimus died and they didn't know that the shard had enough power to fully revive Optimus, it took the matrix to do that.

Then why didn't they show this? It's still a plot hole on the face of it if they just outright left it out. Same goes for Barricade. Also, why would Bumblebee, the heroic kid-appeal character up and leave when the Transformers Devil is screwing **** up.

Bloodlust wrote:3. Already answered by Evil

Expecting sonar to pick up an object that small is absurd. A sonar picking up a submarine does not pick up every individual person on board.

Bloodlust wrote:4. That's like asking a surgeon who has 20/20 eyesight why they wear surgical loupes that magnify during surgery.

Agreed. Its just aesthetics.

Bloodlust wrote:5. Well, there are G1 pretenders, and what about the fact the movie IS FICTION?

What about artist intention? Bay wants his feels to be as real as possible, those are the laws his fiction abides by. If you want to start throwing around the "Its not real" card, then don't join the discussion, because that's the answer for anything.

Bloodlust wrote:6. Books help a lot in these situations, Prime is an orphan or in another continuity he had the mark of the primes engraved on him. The orginals DID gang up but he was STRONGER....arghhh....i swear people......

They still didn't explain this. Its all well and good if they have an explanation (which I still haven't seen) but its no good if they don't tell us.

Bloodlust wrote:7. That one can't really explain, but does that really affect the PLOt of the movie? Nope.

A plot hole doesn't have to be totally story-centric. This is in the same vein as Jordan and Egypt being next door to each other when they're separated by a whole other country.

Bloodlust wrote:8. Yes, because there's no way an alien robot wouldn't be able to go 250mph......(also, as Evil said, movies aren't made in real time)

Except that the movie doesn't skip the whole missing country, it outright omits it, showing one country visible from another. That's impossible.

Bloodlust wrote:9. Who says heaven is exclusive to just humans?

Its just a bit whacky for some.

Bloodlust wrote:10. A: His shirt
B: Who cares?
C: Surviving, he couldn't do anything while Prime was alive
D: Soundwave PWNS satellite....
E: Enter MB humor
F: See above
G: Devestator is huge so his alt mode is many vehicles, constructicons don't form devestator
H: It's a coalition.....pay attention
I: Do you really think a civilzation back in 13000 bc had the ability to break a super processed metal? I think not.
J: Things like that happen all the time in G1, it's called an animation error, no biggy.
K: They don't look that clean in egypt.

A. Its wrapped in gauze. And I didn't see any rips in his shirt.
B. People who think there are plot holes.
C. He could order around Megatron for long enough, influencing him from the Nemesis, even when Megatron was all the way away on Cybertron.
D. Light does not bend around the earth to hit a satellite.
E. Ew.
F. Ew.
G. Yeah, this isn't explained in the movie either but given how many identical protoforms are running around, its easy to confuse casual-viewers.
H. Coalition or no, it doesn't explain why the US Army want the Autobots gone when their weapons do nothing.
I. Yet they had the ability to built pyramids. Pretty useless race, for sure.
J. It is in a film that's trying to be realistic.
K. Didn't look.

Night Raid wrote:

Gieferg wrote:If there would be an explanation for all those BS in this movie, even stupid one, I wouldnt have any problem with that. But if something appears like bunny pulled out from a hat, then it is plot hole for me.

ROTF is one of the stupidest movies of all time and brain-shutdown is needed before watching it, but because it is Transformers I still like it in some way.

I get the feeling the movie would be like eight hours long if they paused to explain absolutely everything.

Scatterlung wrote:

Night Raid wrote:

Gieferg wrote:If there would be an explanation for all those BS in this movie, even stupid one, I wouldnt have any problem with that. But if something appears like bunny pulled out from a hat, then it is plot hole for me.

ROTF is one of the stupidest movies of all time and brain-shutdown is needed before watching it, but because it is Transformers I still like it in some way.

I get the feeling the movie would be like eight hours long if they paused to explain absolutely everything.

Good. We might've seen some more Transformers development then.

Night Raid wrote:

Gieferg wrote:If there would be an explanation for all those BS in this movie, even stupid one, I wouldnt have any problem with that. But if something appears like bunny pulled out from a hat, then it is plot hole for me.

ROTF is one of the stupidest movies of all time and brain-shutdown is needed before watching it, but because it is Transformers I still like it in some way.

I get the feeling the movie would be like eight hours long if they paused to explain absolutely everything.

Just Negare wrote:

Night Raid wrote:

Gieferg wrote:If there would be an explanation for all those BS in this movie, even stupid one, I wouldnt have any problem with that. But if something appears like bunny pulled out from a hat, then it is plot hole for me.

ROTF is one of the stupidest movies of all time and brain-shutdown is needed before watching it, but because it is Transformers I still like it in some way.

I get the feeling the movie would be like eight hours long if they paused to explain absolutely everything.

But this is the problem! I for one, and I'm guessing most others who think like me, aren't asking for a perfect movie, we're just asking for something that respects the dignity of Transformers. Yes, yes, its simply a couple of hours in which to peddle new toys, but the more people fob off these plot holes and "oh, its just a movie, get over it" the less likely the sequels to such movies will be any good.

People can't say "Well, Mission City doesn't exist! So it doesn't matter what happens there!" But Jordan exists, Egypt exists, if you're not going to care about a made up city becuase its made up, then it shoudl matter if they're usually real geographical locations. They could have worked in a flyer to come and pick up the "twins" an co and fly them to Eygpt, or have Simmons use some kind of fancy GPS video to view Egypt.

Is it really too much to ask for a Transformers movie with a bit of sense? When we laugh off the "plot holes" or refuse to acknowledge them, it just gives Bay an invitation to completely FUBAR the next Transformers movie. I mean, the first one was really good, and its quirks can be forgiven as they were so minor, but the abortion that ROTF was, it cna't really be forgiven.

As Transformers fans we deserve better. The general public deserve better. Instead of all of us lauding ROTF we've been divided over that muck fest. If we don't demand a better movie, we won't get one. And us and the general public are the people who pay for it.

Of course, with stupidity that society seems to drown in, people voted with their wallets and went and saw some big shiny explosions and something that boarders close to soft pawn for a few hours. -_-'

Honest to God, the '86 version had less infringements on reality, even with the "jettison some weight" quip.

Evil_the_Nub wrote:Here, this might help. People have been throwing the word plot hole around without knowing what it means. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotHole

Sam reviving Optimus with the Allspark sliver would have been a huge plot hole. He had no idea how to use it and he would have needed parts to fix him like Megatron did. A geographical difference is not a plot hole. Expecting a geography lesson from a movie about giant alien robots is like expecting a history lesson from 300. If you didn't like the movie that's fine, nobody is saying you have to. But saying that only dumb people like the movie is immature.

Night Raid wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:Here, this might help. People have been throwing the word plot hole around without knowing what it means. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotHole

Sam reviving Optimus with the Allspark sliver would have been a huge plot hole. He had no idea how to use it and he would have needed parts to fix him like Megatron did. A geographical difference is not a plot hole. Expecting a geography lesson from a movie about giant alien robots is like expecting a history lesson from 300. If you didn't like the movie that's fine, nobody is saying you have to. But saying that only dumb people like the movie is immature.

For one thing, Sam didn't use the Allspark sliver at all. He used the Matrix thingy. And the parts thing is why Jetfire stepped up.

Evil_the_Nub wrote:

Night Raid wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:Here, this might help. People have been throwing the word plot hole around without knowing what it means. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotHole

Sam reviving Optimus with the Allspark sliver would have been a huge plot hole. He had no idea how to use it and he would have needed parts to fix him like Megatron did. A geographical difference is not a plot hole. Expecting a geography lesson from a movie about giant alien robots is like expecting a history lesson from 300. If you didn't like the movie that's fine, nobody is saying you have to. But saying that only dumb people like the movie is immature.

For one thing, Sam didn't use the Allspark sliver at all. He used the Matrix thingy. And the parts thing is why Jetfire stepped up.

I know, but people are saying Sam not using the sliver is a plot hole. I'm pointing out that if he had used it to revive Optimus that would have been a massive plot hole.

Night Raid wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:

Night Raid wrote:

Evil_the_Nub wrote:Here, this might help. People have been throwing the word plot hole around without knowing what it means. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotHole

Sam reviving Optimus with the Allspark sliver would have been a huge plot hole. He had no idea how to use it and he would have needed parts to fix him like Megatron did. A geographical difference is not a plot hole. Expecting a geography lesson from a movie about giant alien robots is like expecting a history lesson from 300. If you didn't like the movie that's fine, nobody is saying you have to. But saying that only dumb people like the movie is immature.

For one thing, Sam didn't use the Allspark sliver at all. He used the Matrix thingy. And the parts thing is why Jetfire stepped up.

I know, but people are saying Sam not using the sliver is a plot hole. I'm pointing out that if he had used it to revive Optimus that would have been a massive plot hole.

Sam used the sliver to wake Jetfire up.