The Energon Pub

Okay gang - I think it's time we set aside our differences for a while and do something productive. I mean, let's face it...we can go back and forth about how much we dislike or like Michael Bay and his Transformers Universe and/or whether or not if you are a "true" fan of Transformers or just a "fan" - for eternity! (Or at least until Unicron shows up and destroys us all!)

So while we still have time, why don't we make our "voice" heard the appropriate way - Letters directly to the source. And I'm not talking about 'Hate' mail but more like Constructive Criticism Fanmail - something to maybe challenge them instead of "bashing". Whether or not it works - who knows. But in the beginning of Transformers...many of us kids (and I'm sure even some adults) back then, wrote to Hasbro and other sources telling everyone how much we missed Optimus Prime and that they shouldn't have killed him in the original 1986 movie. They listened to us! Now its time, if you haven't done so already, to do the same for Michael Bay and his 'movieverse' - especially if this is going to be the last one for a while.

So, below is the actual REAL letter I sent to him via 'snail' mail. And if any of you actually have direct access to Michael Bay's email address or something - post it up. And feel free to use my letter (or parts of it) yourself and put your name to it and let's at least put up a good fight instead of just bickering back and forth amongst ourselves...at least for now. Then after the movie comes out and if it's NOT one of the GREATEST Sci-Fi movies ever...THEN we can truly "Bay Bash" without being hypocritical. Anyway, here is the letter:

Dear Micheal Bay (& writers, Paramount & Hasbro, Spielberg, DeSanto & Murphy),

First, let me start off by saying; Thank you. Thank you for taking on and continuing the Transformers Universe. As you well know, back in the 80’s, Transformers started off as toys, then came more and more toys with more and more backgrounds, and then came the storylines. The toys were and are AWESOME, the characters were and are GREAT, but it was because of all the eventual storylines, behind the AWESOME and GREAT toys, that most of us fans 'fell in love' even more and remained loyal to this franchise no matter what universe the Transformers were in and no matter who or what the characters were.
Now-a-days, animation, CGI, and 3-D can all be made to look flawless, as your crew has so beautifully demonstrated (and I'm sure will demonstrate with your 3-D), but if the story isn't believable…then it’s just a fun popcorn movie and not much else. I understand that there was a writer’s strike while you were putting together RoTF, but after viewing your official teaser trailer for Dark of the Moon…I’m still a bit concerned. I was lucky enough to witness most of your film shoot in Chicago this past summer and it was really, really AWESOME!!! And no offense, but your official teaser trailer, I think, actually raises more questions than it does 'tease'.
This is one of the reasons, I think, many are "Bay Bashing" and yes, that’s including myself. So as not to do any more 'bashing', I have a few suggestions while DoTM is still on the editing floor that I think would help out, that is, if you have not addressed them already. And yes, I know there might be more explanation coming up with the full DoTM trailers (I do understand that this is just a "teaser" trailer after all), but I wanted to get this into you before it was too late to make any changes at all. And though I think you will have to 'flashback' to go forward to make sense of things – I think it will or could work out pretty well.

The following three things are all just for continuity:
1. Explaining (coherently) why it is, that since 1969, NASA has known about a Spaceship with dead remains of aliens (that look an awful lot like Transformers) on the moon and no one said anything to anyone during the other two films – whether it was to another branch of government or to a Transformer (Decepticon OR Autobot) or even the local news or something. You think someone would have eventually said "Hey…you think now is a good time to tell the Autobots and/or the military that we have their spaceship and Alpha Trion" (if it is indeed Alpha Trion). "Or maybe, at least, we should let them know it’s just sitting there on the dark side of the moon?" like after the battle of the AllSpark and/or during any part of RoTF.

On the flipside of that, you had Starscream and Megatron fly out of Earth’s atmosphere a few times. You think one of them would have eventually done an extensive search of Earth’s surroundings including a 'once around' the moon. Though, I guess you can write that one off to Starscream. Something like he was told to do it by Megatron and he said he did do it – but in reality he didn’t fly all away around the moon. Then you can have Megatron say, "Starscream, you have failed me for the last time" and kill him. Oh, or maybe even have Shockwave obliterate him like Galavatron did in the cartoon movie! That would be cool.

2. Perhaps showing a clip or a flashback clip or at least explaining where in the world all the Transformers keep 'dropping' out of the sky from. You have already shown us a glimpse of a Decepticon spaceship as well as hopefully now an Autobot one that’s on the moon. So it stands to reason that they 'dropped' out of another spaceship to get to Earth at one point. We also know your Transformers don’t all have thrusters of their own either, or else they wouldn’t have made such a mess everywhere on Earth when 'landing' (at least the Autobots wouldn’t of anyway…we know the Decepticons don’t care either way). Or if they do all have/had thrusters…it stands to reason that they would have guided themselves to more desolate areas instead of 'crashing' into the city.

3. And if indeed they do have ships, that they 'dropped' from, to get to Earth…hopefully that is how Optimus has been relaying his messages back and forth to seek out 'others' that are 'traveling' around the universe. Otherwise, yes…it’s quite a stretch to imagine that Optimus is also a big satellite (Though I suppose we can chalk that up to "anything is possible with the power of the AllSpark and/or the Matrix". But in the beginning of Transformers, for communications, that is why there was Soundwave and Blaster along with spaceships. In this case, a spaceship on the moon with enough power to broadcast signals across the universe, I think would suffice.

So I really, really do hope that DoTM comes together nicely (especially if this is truly your last Transformers film) and one day Transformers will become just as a popular of a franchise name as say Star Wars, Star Trek and dare I say…even Harry Potter (I mean, there’s no reason there can’t be a Transformers Amusement Park one day! Think about it – rides that somehow 'transform' while you are on them!!! Well, that’s neither here nor there…yet).
And hopefully, for this movie, the critics will be a little more inclined to support another Sci-Fi as they did with Avatar and forget about RoTF. Plus, why not try and give Avatar a run for its top spot!?

Thank you very much for your time and consideration,

– A devoted Transformers fan – Chicago IL

Here are the ADDRESSES: (and for Hasbro...it was easy to just send an email)

Michael Bay
c/o: William Morris Endeavor
One William Morris Place
Beverly Hills, CA, 90212

Paramount Pictures Corp.
5555 Melrose Ave.
Hollywood, CA 90038

Steven Spielberg
Amblin Entertainment Inc
100 Universal City Plaza
Building 477
Universal City, CA 91608

Dear lord, where to begin...

froneyzone wrote:Then after the movie comes out and if it's NOT one of the GREATEST Sci-Fi movies ever...THEN we can truly "Bay Bash" without being hypocritical. Anyway, here is the letter:

Ahhh, my friend, there is no way that DoTM will be among the ranks of the best Sci-Fi movies of all time. No matter how much story is has, no matter how explosive the action, no matter how many Billions of dollars it makes, it will never be OnE OF DA GREATEST EVAR!

Some of the greatest ever: Star Wars, The Terminator, Star Trek.

I love the movies as much as the next guy, but this is heartbreak waiting to happen. DoTM will never compare to these and any others that people may add. (I'm pretty sure even OptiMagnus will agree ith me).

froneyzone wrote:And no offense, but your official teaser trailer, I think, actually raises more questions than it does 'tease'.

That's what it's supposed to do! 'Tease' you into asking questionionss! Questions like;
"Who is that guy?"
"Why is the Space Ship on the Moon?"
"How have the Decepticons not noticed it?"
"How will the autobots fit into this?"
"Ho will the decepticons fit into this?"

And others that will be answered IN THE MOVIE!!!


The Trailer did what it was meant to do... raise questions about the movie.

froneyzone wrote:1. Explaining (coherently) why it is, that since 1969, NASA has known about a Spaceship with dead remains of aliens (that look an awful lot like Transformers) on the moon and no one said anything to anyone during the other two films – whether it was to another branch of government or to a Transformer (Decepticon OR Autobot) or even the local news or something. You think someone would have eventually said "Hey…you think now is a good time to tell the Autobots and/or the military that we have their spaceship and Alpha Trion" (if it is indeed Alpha Trion). "Or maybe, at least, we should let them know it’s just sitting there on the dark side of the moon?" like after the battle of the AllSpark and/or during any part of RoTF.

That wasn't NASA, that's Sector 7 in the trailer.

froneyzone wrote:On the flipside of that, you had Starscream and Megatron fly out of Earth’s atmosphere a few times. You think one of them would have eventually done an extensive search of Earth’s surroundings including a 'once around' the moon

I'm pretty sure that Megs and Screamer were too busy getting to their destinations (The Nemesis & Cybertron respectivley) to "Extinsevley Search the moon". Plus, they probably never even thought there would be a Cybertronian ship on the Moon.





On your point about Optimus in 86, they partially brought him back because he had a new toy on the shelves.



Also, Transformers is as sucsessful as Star Wars and Trek. We have our own Convention, the movies have made Billions of dollars world wide, we've had crossovers with Star Wars, the toys FLY off shelves, and it's been around for over 20 years non stop. I dare say that it's as least as popular as Star Trek.

Ok,....

First let me start by saying i read your letter in its entirety. I can appreciate what your trying to do and can appreciate even more the level of respect you had in your letter. If people are going to write Bay &Co. letters, i believe this is the format that it needs to be written. So savage points to you for that. However, i believe a few of your "concerns" are far and between either already taken care of, or production is to far along to do anything about anyways.
Your main concern seems to be the teaser trailer and the questions it has brought out. Personally, i think that's the point of a teaser trailer. Your not going to have any questions answered. Its to get you excited and talking, which by evidence of your letter, has done just that. This forum has been littered with several threads 10+ pages deep speculating who the bot on the moon is, how he got there, and what ship there on, why no one has mentioned an alien ship crash landed on the moon etc. Speaking of why no one has mentioned them in past movies,.. I strongly believe that this has already been thought out. I don't see how anyone can honestly believe that this part of the story won't be explained in the movie. I'm sure in time we will find out the answer.
My main point is all things considered, you seem to be to concerned on one "point". Especially one that probably would be to late to address anyhow. Post production has for the most part ended and its looking like the last 4 months will be CGI rendering. So i doubt they are going to have any script changes this late in the game. But without reading an actual copy, i don't see how anyone can make "suggestions" anyhow. For all you know your one or two "suggestions" might clash with the rest of the story/script. So if peeps are going to write letters, lets write something with a bit more concerns (if there really are any at this point) that can be addressed.

Oh, c'mon guys this thing really needs to end. I really appreciate your good tone and intension, but have you tried to send a letter to Hasbro in 85 and 86 about all the plot holes, mistakes and discontinuation in the Cartoons. I think the Cartoons from 85 were made by morons who didn't care about anything. There are so many mistakes and flaws in it that I'm surprised that it even made it to the screen. And don't get me wrong, I really enjoy them no matter that fact.
Now the feature films by Michael Bay can't just fix that in 6 hours. And that's not their point. These movies are just for pure entertainment and audio/visual pleasure. It's really hard to make a story about alien robots transforming in earth vehicle plausible and to expect that every aspect of every story would be covered and explained without flaws. Every time there will be somebody who's expectations would not be fulfilled. It's very simple, when you enter the world of the feature films you need to think about them as a completely different continuation in which every flaw could be explained by a future movie or a comic or a novel or whatever. Don't be so harsh against the makers of the movie it's not an easy job. Believe me I know.

Just once I would love to see one of these Bay and Co letters have a different content than "Hurr durr I R angary fanboi. You no respakt Transmorfsers."

If this thread was a joint Email to Hasbro (not Bay) in regards to TF4 or feedback on the general potential directions of TFs as a whole after Dotm, maybe it could have been something quite dynamic.I've been contemplating starting exactly that for a while now.

Sorry, the Seibertronians who posted above are right: It's too late to change anything already scripted for Dotm, and it's too early to know what it may be that needs changing.

Albershide wrote:Oh, c'mon guys this thing really needs to end. I really appreciate your good tone and intension, but have you tried to send a letter to Hasbro in 85 and 86 about all the plot holes, mistakes and discontinuation in the Cartoons. I think the Cartoons from 85 were made by morons who didn't care about anything. There are so many mistakes and flaws in it that I'm surprised that it even made it to the screen. And don't get me wrong, I really enjoy them no matter that fact.
Now the feature films by Michael Bay can't just fix that in 6 hours. And that's not their point. These movies are just for pure entertainment and audio/visual pleasure. It's really hard to make a story about alien robots transforming in earth vehicle plausible and to expect that every aspect of every story would be covered and explained without flaws. Every time there will be somebody who's expectations would not be fulfilled. It's very simple, when you enter the world of the feature films you need to think about them as a completely different continuation in which every flaw could be explained by a future movie or a comic or a novel or whatever. Don't be so harsh against the makers of the movie it's not an easy job. Believe me I know.

This.

You make a good point that i think many forget. Writing a script is not an easy task. Especially writing one that has such a large fan base to begin with and at the same time trying to apease them, as well as the general public. (lets face it. If Bay & Co. did a movie purely on fan suggestion, i'd sink faster than the Titanic). And becides, wether or not your a fan of the movieverse, if your a fan of TF, your going to go see the movie. So just enjoy it.

Okay this is an improvement from the last one definitely, and I commend you for it, but you're still not getting the whole picture here.
1. The teaser trailer is supposed to raise questions my friend! That's what they're for. That's how they catch your interest and make you want to know more so you watch the larger trailers and eventually go see the movie. You want too many questions answered for you right now. Relax, these questions will be answered IN JULY.
2. JetOptimus is right that I agree with him, and regardless of how it turns out, it probably won't end up getting the notoriety of Star Wars, Avatar, Terminator, and Star Trek. And you know what I think? I think it's good, because it keeps us, the fandom, out of the media spotlight and we aren't made fun of by "normal" people who make up a stupid nickname for us (like "Trekkies"). Don't get me wrong, the movies and publicity are very good so far for the popularity and status of the brand. But honestly, the first movie in a series always gets the most notoriety regardless of how the others turn out.
3. Dude, you're worrying way too much about plotholes. This teaser only has a very minute amount of information in it. We can't jump to conclusions. Just because you can't make what you think is going on in the teaser add up with the larger story arc doesn't mean an automatic plothole. Wait for July so the writers can tell you how it does add up.
4. Michael Bay, his writers, his actors, his producers, and his artists and animators do it THEIR WAY. The way they can all agree on and the way they think is best. There is no way they will believe every single person that gives a care about the movies will absolutely 100% agree with everything you say. You don't represent all of us. You represent yourself. What is here is your personal opinion.
5. Whether or not the movie is the greatest ever made or is horrible is YOUR OPINION. Besides, most people will probably be done Bay Bashing after this final movie since they failed to put a halt to the "destructive and humiliating" continuity that it is. After the toys are done, everyone will just bash the next great TF installment because it will probably be different from G1. There is really no need to Bay Bash after the Bayverse is dead.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Okay this is an improvement from the last one definitely, and I commend you for it, but you're still not getting the whole picture here.
1. The teaser trailer is supposed to raise questions my friend! That's what they're for. That's how they catch your interest and make you want to know more so you watch the larger trailers and eventually go see the movie. You want too many questions answered for you right now. Relax, these questions will be answered IN JULY.
2. JetOptimus is right that I agree with him, and regardless of how it turns out, it probably won't end up getting the notoriety of Star Wars, Avatar, Terminator, and Star Trek. And you know what I think? I think it's good, because it keeps us, the fandom, out of the media spotlight and we aren't made fun of by "normal" people who make up a stupid nickname for us (like "Trekkies"). Don't get me wrong, the movies and publicity are very good so far for the popularity and status of the brand. But honestly, the first movie in a series always gets the most notoriety regardless of how the others turn out.
3. Dude, you're worrying way too much about plotholes. This teaser only has a very minute amount of information in it. We can't jump to conclusions. Just because you can't make what you think is going on in the teaser add up with the larger story arc doesn't mean an automatic plothole. Wait for July so the writers can tell you how it does add up.
4. Michael Bay, his writers, his actors, his producers, and his artists and animators do it THEIR WAY. The way they can all agree on and the way they think is best. There is no way they will believe every single person that gives a care about the movies will absolutely 100% agree with everything you say. You don't represent all of us. You represent yourself. What is here is your personal opinion.
5. Whether or not the movie is the greatest ever made or is horrible is YOUR OPINION. Besides, most people will probably be done Bay Bashing after this final movie since they failed to put a halt to the "destructive and humiliating" continuity that it is. After the toys are done, everyone will just bash the next great TF installment because it will probably be different from G1. There is really no need to Bay Bash after the Bayverse is dead.

This!


Transformers isn't supposed to be a deep philosophical thriller. It's ment to be a movie to watch stuff blow up. Nothing esle.

froneyzone wrote: But in the beginning of Transformers...many of us kids (and I'm sure even some adults) back then, wrote to Hasbro and other sources telling everyone how much we missed Optimus Prime and that they shouldn't have killed him in the original 1986 movie. They listened to us!

LOL. Seriously you think the letters had anything to do with that? Dude, Season 3 was already in the works and mostly completed before the movie hit theaters. Each episode took months to produce, the movie was released August 8th 1986, Season 3 started September 1st 1986, with The Return of Optimus Prime airing February 24th 1987.

The only change to Hasbro and Sunbow's plans when they saw the public response was to change the death of Duke in the GIJoe movie into a serious injury, removing him from action. They even discuss the fact in the special features of the 2006 DVD release, when they talk about the unexpected reaction caused by Primes death and how they already had things prepared for his return in the regular cartoon.

I applaud your tenacity in writing letters to people who can make changes, but honestly, don't be so gullible to believe that large corporations truly care about the request and wishes of fans, just their bottom lines. It would help to do some basic research as well if (in the case) the intended reader actually sees your letter so you are taken seriously rather than putting stock in feel good beliefs that have no basis behind them, because once you lose credibility your lose the soapbox you are trying to stand on.

OptiMagnus10 wrote:everyone will just bash the next great TF installment because it will probably be different from G1.

Really? They can't bash it because it's different than say, Beast Wars, or the Unicron Trilogy? Or the movies?

OptiMagnus10 wrote:2. JetOptimus is right that I agree with him, and regardless of how it turns out, it probably won't end up getting the notoriety of Star Wars, Avatar, Terminator, and Star Trek. And you know what I think? I think it's good, because it keeps us, the fandom, out of the media spotlight and we aren't made fun of by "normal" people who make up a stupid nickname for us (like "Trekkies"). Don't get me wrong, the movies and publicity are very good so far for the popularity and status of the brand. But honestly, the first movie in a series always gets the most notoriety regardless of how the others turn out.

Excuse me, but do you really mind being called a "TransFan" (although it sounds a bit weird...) or whatever? I would prefer the TF movies to be as great as possible, even if that would lead us to be in "the media spotlight" or "normal" people to "make fun of us". I mean...who cares after all?

JetOptimus23 wrote:Transformers isn't supposed to be a deep philosophical thriller. It's ment to be a movie to watch stuff blow up. Nothing esle.

IMO the fact that TF isn't a philosophical thriller or something, doesn't mean that story and plot don't matter at all. If someone wants to see explosions and nothing else, he/she can go to a quarry instead of the cinema.

Didicos wrote:If someone wants to see explosions and nothing else, he/she can go to a quarry instead of the cinema.

Or just watch Mythbusters.

JetOptimus23 wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Okay this is an improvement from the last one definitely, and I commend you for it, but you're still not getting the whole picture here.
1. The teaser trailer is supposed to raise questions my friend! That's what they're for. That's how they catch your interest and make you want to know more so you watch the larger trailers and eventually go see the movie. You want too many questions answered for you right now. Relax, these questions will be answered IN JULY.
2. JetOptimus is right that I agree with him, and regardless of how it turns out, it probably won't end up getting the notoriety of Star Wars, Avatar, Terminator, and Star Trek. And you know what I think? I think it's good, because it keeps us, the fandom, out of the media spotlight and we aren't made fun of by "normal" people who make up a stupid nickname for us (like "Trekkies"). Don't get me wrong, the movies and publicity are very good so far for the popularity and status of the brand. But honestly, the first movie in a series always gets the most notoriety regardless of how the others turn out.
3. Dude, you're worrying way too much about plotholes. This teaser only has a very minute amount of information in it. We can't jump to conclusions. Just because you can't make what you think is going on in the teaser add up with the larger story arc doesn't mean an automatic plothole. Wait for July so the writers can tell you how it does add up.
4. Michael Bay, his writers, his actors, his producers, and his artists and animators do it THEIR WAY. The way they can all agree on and the way they think is best. There is no way they will believe every single person that gives a care about the movies will absolutely 100% agree with everything you say. You don't represent all of us. You represent yourself. What is here is your personal opinion.
5. Whether or not the movie is the greatest ever made or is horrible is YOUR OPINION. Besides, most people will probably be done Bay Bashing after this final movie since they failed to put a halt to the "destructive and humiliating" continuity that it is. After the toys are done, everyone will just bash the next great TF installment because it will probably be different from G1. There is really no need to Bay Bash after the Bayverse is dead.

This!


Transformers isn't supposed to be a deep philosophical thriller. It's ment to be a movie to watch stuff blow up. Nothing esle.

Well, it could be. I'm working on a 3 hour stopmotion that will prove that Transformers can be. It goes off into the realms of...deep TF stuff. Like things that not a lot of other series focus on. Things like Angolmois and the demons beneath Cybertron and a lot of other complicated stuff. But when I go to the movies, you know what, no. I think ROTF did do that a little bit. Everything from the movie is a parallel to something else.

SlyTF1 wrote:

JetOptimus23 wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Okay this is an improvement from the last one definitely, and I commend you for it, but you're still not getting the whole picture here.
1. The teaser trailer is supposed to raise questions my friend! That's what they're for. That's how they catch your interest and make you want to know more so you watch the larger trailers and eventually go see the movie. You want too many questions answered for you right now. Relax, these questions will be answered IN JULY.
2. JetOptimus is right that I agree with him, and regardless of how it turns out, it probably won't end up getting the notoriety of Star Wars, Avatar, Terminator, and Star Trek. And you know what I think? I think it's good, because it keeps us, the fandom, out of the media spotlight and we aren't made fun of by "normal" people who make up a stupid nickname for us (like "Trekkies"). Don't get me wrong, the movies and publicity are very good so far for the popularity and status of the brand. But honestly, the first movie in a series always gets the most notoriety regardless of how the others turn out.
3. Dude, you're worrying way too much about plotholes. This teaser only has a very minute amount of information in it. We can't jump to conclusions. Just because you can't make what you think is going on in the teaser add up with the larger story arc doesn't mean an automatic plothole. Wait for July so the writers can tell you how it does add up.
4. Michael Bay, his writers, his actors, his producers, and his artists and animators do it THEIR WAY. The way they can all agree on and the way they think is best. There is no way they will believe every single person that gives a care about the movies will absolutely 100% agree with everything you say. You don't represent all of us. You represent yourself. What is here is your personal opinion.
5. Whether or not the movie is the greatest ever made or is horrible is YOUR OPINION. Besides, most people will probably be done Bay Bashing after this final movie since they failed to put a halt to the "destructive and humiliating" continuity that it is. After the toys are done, everyone will just bash the next great TF installment because it will probably be different from G1. There is really no need to Bay Bash after the Bayverse is dead.

This!


Transformers isn't supposed to be a deep philosophical thriller. It's ment to be a movie to watch stuff blow up. Nothing esle.

Well, it could be. I'm working on a 3 hour stopmotion that will prove that Transformers can be. It goes off into the realms of...deep TF stuff. Like things that not a lot of other series focus on. Things like Angolmois and the demons beneath Cybertron and a lot of other complicated stuff. But when I go to the movies, you know what, no. I think ROTF did do that a little bit. Everything from the movie is a parallel to something else.

Respectfully,
I agree that it could be (and should be!) as well, tho a really good story should have a healthy dose of everything.
I reckon the moment that Peter Parker tells his Aunt about his guilty role in the Uncles death, then reaches for her hand, tho she pulls her hand away, is a deeply psychological thiller moment in a perfectly day to day situation for normal folks to identify with(ie: it's still a new monster spiderman seems completely unable to kill, and it will destroy him at his root, but it doesn't need to be a gangrel creature in a shadowy set with jaws music to get that point across: THAT is the point of going to storytelling schools and then expecting to be applauded for it IMO.
I feel there are also strong moments in the first 3 Xmen films as well as in TF1, so it shouldn't be a foreign expectation for a TF film.

And if it's meant to be a blow stuff up and nothing else movie, then is that because it's a Bay movie? (but it's not a BSUANEmovie- as TF films,specifically, there's much more to go see all 3 for, PLUS it's the end of a trilogy. If all Bay knows to do is blow stuff up, and yet the fx people do that for him, then he's not even a one trick pony... is he or isn't he?

Back on subject: Even if the whole trilogy were to turn out to be a complete dud, there's always Tf4 (and beyond, hopefully) to stitch up seams and phil.d.gaps. I feel people should avoid encouraging reboots-it's a cop out and the too easy solution- and encourage hollywood to work it until they love the result.
Alien 3 hurt the Aliens story cycle, but Alien: ressurection made the events in Alien 3 fit perfectly with all the rest.
(Yes, it was largely a reboot, but it saved Alien 3 for-and-as what it is).Superman Returns even gave Smallville space to remain as is, from my point of view.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:everyone will just bash the next great TF installment because it will probably be different from G1.

Really? They can't bash it because it's different than say, Beast Wars, or the Unicron Trilogy? Or the movies?

My friend, you never fail to miss my point.
I was merely using G1 as an example, so no I'm not saying you can't bash the next continuity because of it's differences to other post-G1 continuities.
It seems to me at least that most people complain because there isn't "enough G1 homage" in a continuity, and many fans I have met hate the three you mentioned because they are different from G1. Most people usually compare a new version of something to the original or whatever directly preceded the current version. For example, when the 2010 Camaro was released, most of the Camaro fans only compared it to the first generation and the previous generation, not the ones in the middle. So yes you are probably correct that whatever comes next will be compared to the movie universe also.

SlyTF1 wrote:

JetOptimus23 wrote:

OptiMagnus10 wrote:Okay this is an improvement from the last one definitely, and I commend you for it, but you're still not getting the whole picture here.
1. The teaser trailer is supposed to raise questions my friend! That's what they're for. That's how they catch your interest and make you want to know more so you watch the larger trailers and eventually go see the movie. You want too many questions answered for you right now. Relax, these questions will be answered IN JULY.
2. JetOptimus is right that I agree with him, and regardless of how it turns out, it probably won't end up getting the notoriety of Star Wars, Avatar, Terminator, and Star Trek. And you know what I think? I think it's good, because it keeps us, the fandom, out of the media spotlight and we aren't made fun of by "normal" people who make up a stupid nickname for us (like "Trekkies"). Don't get me wrong, the movies and publicity are very good so far for the popularity and status of the brand. But honestly, the first movie in a series always gets the most notoriety regardless of how the others turn out.
3. Dude, you're worrying way too much about plotholes. This teaser only has a very minute amount of information in it. We can't jump to conclusions. Just because you can't make what you think is going on in the teaser add up with the larger story arc doesn't mean an automatic plothole. Wait for July so the writers can tell you how it does add up.
4. Michael Bay, his writers, his actors, his producers, and his artists and animators do it THEIR WAY. The way they can all agree on and the way they think is best. There is no way they will believe every single person that gives a care about the movies will absolutely 100% agree with everything you say. You don't represent all of us. You represent yourself. What is here is your personal opinion.
5. Whether or not the movie is the greatest ever made or is horrible is YOUR OPINION. Besides, most people will probably be done Bay Bashing after this final movie since they failed to put a halt to the "destructive and humiliating" continuity that it is. After the toys are done, everyone will just bash the next great TF installment because it will probably be different from G1. There is really no need to Bay Bash after the Bayverse is dead.

This Transformers isn't supposed to be a deep philosophical thriller. It's ment to be a movie to watch stuff blow up. Nothing esle.

Well, it could be. I'm working on a 3 hour stopmotion that will prove that Transformers can be. It goes off into the realms of...deep TF stuff. Like things that not a lot of other series focus on. Things like Angolmois and the demons beneath Cybertron and a lot of other complicated stuff. But when I go to the movies, you know what, no. I think ROTF did do that a little bit. Everything from the movie is a parallel to something else.

1. I still disagree about the whole teaser trailer "is supposed to raise questions" idea. I think they are supposed to get one excited about something. Just look at the The Green Lantern and the Green Hornet's teaser trailers - no questions there - just good'ole fashioned excitement and humor. If this was the first teaser trailer for the first film - I say it rocks. But it's not. Bay's "teaser" was already done by filming all over the country and having specials on TV like on Entertainment Tonight and what-not. All that hype and 'hoopla' WAS the "teaser". I mean, really, (in my opinion) he should have just waited until a full trailer was done. I mean not one shot of any of the actors and/or Transformers we already know was a poor decision for a franchises third movie teaser trailer.

2. Well, it's a shame you guys don't want this franchise to have that high of notoriety and don't want to be part of the spotlight. What's wrong with growing the fandom base? Plus I feel the only nickname giving would be one that some reporter would find on this site or something - so just don't give them that opportunity. I mean, Star Wars fans don't even have a silly nickname. Besides, I think something cool like Cybertronians would be just fine by me.

3. I wasn't jumping to conclusions - I even said "if you haven't already addressed them yet." and that "I understand that this is just a teaser trailer".

My point is: if we just wait until July - nothing can be changed. This way, we at least have a fighting chance to make a difference - no matter if they listen to us or not. We gave it our best shot and tried.

4. Yes, ultimately, it's Bay's and his team's decision...but if we just stand idly by waiting until July, then we all have to agree not to complain about the movie after the fact. Now is the time! This way, when the movie does come out and the storyline still sucks and/or everything doesn't tie together nicely - THEN we can complain and said - "ummm...maybe you guys should have considered some of our (the fans) ideas!"

5. And no it won't be my opinion if it's one of the greatest Sci-Fi's ever - that's why there are ratings and professional critics! And Transformers was written to be philosophical! Or else we wouldn't hear Optimus saying things like: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings." and "Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing." Also, I think people would stop Bay Bashing as soon as he makes a critically acclaimed movie. Instead of going backwards (or remaining on the same track)...he has a great opportunity here to move forward! Opportunity being the key word.

So I say: Keep on writing in to Bay and his team. Even if it's after the full trailer(s) come out. I mean, hopefully they do pull everything together and end this nicely. Then most of us fans will be happy and excited and then we can write actual good'ole fashioned "Thank you" letters and wait for the movie or vice versa.

And I look forward to your stopmotion feature SlyTF1 - Sounds awesome!

[quote="froneyzone"]


Bay's "teaser" was already done by filming all over the country and having specials on TV like on Entertainment Tonight and what-not. All that hype and 'hoopla' WAS the "teaser".

What's wrong with growing the fandom base? Plus I feel the only nickname giving would be one that some reporter would find on this site or something -

Yes, ultimately, it's Bay's and his team's decision...but if we just stand idly by waiting until July, then we all have to agree not to complain about the movie after the fact.



Although I would personally wait and leave TF3 alone, partially because Bay is looking for (and needs, and therefore should be given) the chance to redeem himself in his own eyes over this whole idea that Rotf was done all wrong, I have to say that your counterarguments are pretty impressive and quite powerful.

Even outside of the Clash between Bay and the Fanbase (and then the resultant clash between fans), TF3 still belongs inside its' own cycle and the other two films need it to be completed and brought to their own chapter close. Tho I am repeating my personal opinion,I would contemplate sending out a passive group message before TF4.

froneyzone wrote:So I say: Keep on writing in to Bay and his team. Even if it's after the full trailer(s) come out.

Dear Mr Michael Bay,

You don't know me, we never actually met even though I sat only a few rows back when you introduced Transformers in Australia back in 2007.

I'm not a movie maker. Sure, I have a hand held camera, but I have no idea about set design, how to tell a person to act, I have no idea how to blow things up (well not deliberately anyway), I have no idea how to do special effects, in fact, i'm probably one of the last people who should be telling a director such as yourself how to make a movie.

And i'm not going to. I'm not going to be one of those rabid fanboys who try to tell you how to do your job. What I will tell you is this. Both Transformer movies had flaws. But as far as i'm concerned, all movies have flaws. But I still enjoyed them. Even though I grew up in the 80's and the original Transformers, I still enjoyed them, flaws and all.

So i'm writing you this letter to thank you. I might have cringed in some parts, but thank you for entertaining me. Thank you for giving the Transformers franchise some much needed exposure, be it good or bad.

Kind Regards,
Burn
A apparently not-very-passionate-non-true-fan.

froneyzone wrote: 1. I still disagree about the whole teaser trailer "is supposed to raise questions" idea. I think they are supposed to get one excited about something.

And for all intents and purposes, it has. Unfortunutly it just didn't for you.

froneyzone wrote:2. Well, it's a shame you guys don't want this franchise to have that high of notoriety and don't want to be part of the spotlight. What's wrong with growing the fandom base?

Who say it hasn't? Just cause TF fans don't have nick names like "trekkies" doesn't make us any less known or notorised as other Sci-fi franchises. In this day and age, "Transformers" is just as reconisable as "Star Trek", or "Star Wars" etc.

froneyzone wrote: My point is: if we just wait until July - nothing can be changed. This way, we at least have a fighting chance to make a difference - no matter if they listen to us or not. We gave it our best shot and tried.

All your doing is trying to figure out why there's a robot on the moon. You haven't given any real ideas to make the 3rd movie better than what we've seen. Becides, your giving "suggestions" for a movie with a script you haven't read yet. For all you know your "suggestions" could clash with the rest of the movie and then what? You'd be even more confused then you are now.

froneyzone wrote:4. Yes, ultimately, it's Bay's and his team's decision...but if we just stand idly by waiting until July, then we all have to agree not to complain about the movie after the fact. Now is the time!

NO. The time was before the 3rd movie even started production. Not 5 months before the movies release because your not happy with the teaser trailer.

froneyzone wrote:5. And no it won't be my opinion if it's one of the greatest Sci-Fi's ever - that's why there are ratings and professional critics!

"Professional" critics suck. Its very rare when they ever get a movie right. Anyways, it just their opinion whitch shouldn't (and doesn't) matter anymore than the average movie joe.

5150 Cruiser wrote:

froneyzone wrote: 1. I still disagree about the whole teaser trailer "is supposed to raise questions" idea. I think they are supposed to get one excited about something.

And for all intents and purposes, it has. Unfortunutly it just didn't for you.

froneyzone wrote:2. Well, it's a shame you guys don't want this franchise to have that high of notoriety and don't want to be part of the spotlight. What's wrong with growing the fandom base?

Who say it hasn't? Just cause TF fans don't have nick names like "trekkies" doesn't make us any less known or notorised as other Sci-fi franchises. In this day and age, "Transformers" is just as reconisable as "Star Trek", or "Star Wars" etc.

froneyzone wrote: My point is: if we just wait until July - nothing can be changed. This way, we at least have a fighting chance to make a difference - no matter if they listen to us or not. We gave it our best shot and tried.

All your doing is trying to figure out why there's a robot on the moon. You haven't given any real ideas to make the 3rd movie better than what we've seen. Becides, your giving "suggestions" for a movie with a script you haven't read yet. For all you know your "suggestions" could clash with the rest of the movie and then what? You'd be even more confused then you are now.

froneyzone wrote:4. Yes, ultimately, it's Bay's and his team's decision...but if we just stand idly by waiting until July, then we all have to agree not to complain about the movie after the fact. Now is the time!

NO. The time was before the 3rd movie even started production. Not 5 months before the movies release because your not happy with the teaser trailer.

froneyzone wrote:5. And no it won't be my opinion if it's one of the greatest Sci-Fi's ever - that's why there are ratings and professional critics!

"Professional" critics suck. Its very rare when they ever get a movie right. Anyways, it just their opinion whitch shouldn't (and doesn't) matter anymore than the average movie joe.

Really summed up my feelings on froneyzone's post

I'd just like to add that now is too late to change anything, and with what we've seen, there's little that screams "CHANGE THIS BEFORE IT'S RUINED FOREVER". So this call for action is really unnecessary. Honestly, what needs fixing? There isn't anything the Teaser Trailer shows that screams plot hole. Prior to 2007, no one outside of Sector 7 was aware of the existence of Transformers. If the Moon Landing occurred in 1969 (and trust me, it did) then any knowledge secretly gained from said mission would have been kept a secret. For all we know, they discovered something MORE classified than NBE-1. For all we know they're aware of something bigger. See the pattern? For all we know. Until the movie comes out, that's all we can do: speculate. Nothing that the Teaser shows provides anything definite other than: A ship, on the Moon, discovered by Neil Armstrong (operating for Sector 7, NOT NASA), and that it contains Transformers who may be Decepticons, Autobots, or both. That's it. So this call to change anything is a call to change what? Because the way I see it we've seen nothing to change.

But go ahead and keep shaking in your seat because you don't understand how things fit together, why this is this and that is that, when there isn't anything to understand yet, go ahead. The rest of us seem to have no problem waiting for the film to release to have our questions answered...

froneyzone wrote:1. I still disagree about the whole teaser trailer "is supposed to raise questions" idea. I think they are supposed to get one excited about something. Just look at the The Green Lantern and the Green Hornet's teaser trailers - no questions there - just good'ole fashioned excitement and humor. If this was the first teaser trailer for the first film - I say it rocks. But it's not. Bay's "teaser" was already done by filming all over the country and having specials on TV like on Entertainment Tonight and what-not. All that hype and 'hoopla' WAS the "teaser". I mean, really, (in my opinion) he should have just waited until a full trailer was done. I mean not one shot of any of the actors and/or Transformers we already know was a poor decision for a franchises third movie teaser trailer.

2. Well, it's a shame you guys don't want this franchise to have that high of notoriety and don't want to be part of the spotlight. What's wrong with growing the fandom base? Plus I feel the only nickname giving would be one that some reporter would find on this site or something - so just don't give them that opportunity. I mean, Star Wars fans don't even have a silly nickname. Besides, I think something cool like Cybertronians would be just fine by me.

3. I wasn't jumping to conclusions - I even said "if you haven't already addressed them yet." and that "I understand that this is just a teaser trailer".

My point is: if we just wait until July - nothing can be changed. This way, we at least have a fighting chance to make a difference - no matter if they listen to us or not. We gave it our best shot and tried.

4. Yes, ultimately, it's Bay's and his team's decision...but if we just stand idly by waiting until July, then we all have to agree not to complain about the movie after the fact. Now is the time! This way, when the movie does come out and the storyline still sucks and/or everything doesn't tie together nicely - THEN we can complain and said - "ummm...maybe you guys should have considered some of our (the fans) ideas!"

5. And no it won't be my opinion if it's one of the greatest Sci-Fi's ever - that's why there are ratings and professional critics! And Transformers was written to be philosophical! Or else we wouldn't hear Optimus saying things like: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings." and "Fate rarely calls upon us at a moment of our choosing." Also, I think people would stop Bay Bashing as soon as he makes a critically acclaimed movie. Instead of going backwards (or remaining on the same track)...he has a great opportunity here to move forward! Opportunity being the key word.

So I say: Keep on writing in to Bay and his team. Even if it's after the full trailer(s) come out. I mean, hopefully they do pull everything together and end this nicely. Then most of us fans will be happy and excited and then we can write actual good'ole fashioned "Thank you" letters and wait for the movie or vice versa.

And I look forward to your stopmotion feature SlyTF1 - Sounds awesome!

1. The teaser was supposed to get you excited. You just chose not to be excited. Teasers are supposed to make us want to know more. You just demand too much too soon.
2. I have to agree actually. The more exposure to the public's eye Transformers gets, the longer it will last.
3. What changes and differences do you want us to make exactly?
4. Dude...you don't know slag about the story yet. There is nothing you can do to change or "fix" the movie. You are not the film crew. Bay and his team are. Get over it. They don't care what some fanboy thinks they should do. I can almost guarantee there won't be huge plotholes that take away from the movie. Relax.
5. Just saying it is the greatest is still an opinion. But you do make a good point on the philosophical aspects of the movies, there. And Mr. Bay does have a good opportunity here. He has in fact addressed that, and the imperfections of the last movie. He is more confident about this one, probably becuase he has much more time to develop it. A good reason to not worry about plotholes and other crap. Again, relax. The film crew has time to carefully develop this movie, with no writer's strike either.

I think I will help this cause and send a letter to Bay as well.