The Energon Pub

In all the cartoons, Optimus Prime fight for justice and freedom. Like Batman, he will never kill or finish off anyone, even the Decepticons. Jeez, the only time he had to execute a being, was that guy: and he even covered his eyes for not looking at the horror. In Animated, he captured Meg instead of killing him. You may call Optimus Prime from the toons a pussy. I call him, well, a hero, a saint.

But in the Baymovies... Especially in ROTF... Man, Optimus Prime became a BLOODTHIRSTY MONSTER! Execution with a lazer blast through the head, decapitations, dismemberment... Nothing is too gruesome for him. Jazz is dead and what Prime say? "Oh well, lol!" Jetfire sacrifice himself to give him a boost. After his use, Prime discard the remains and don't give a flying ****. What a heartless bastard.

So, I must ask you: WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?

Who gives a damn!? It's time to get rid of the punk ass Optimus in the cartoons, I like that Optimus kills people. More heroes need to be blood thirsty.

SlyTF1 wrote: I like that Optimus kills people.

What's next? Optimus feeding off the entrails of his victims?

Kanrabat- wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote: I like that Optimus kills people.

What's next? Optimus feeding off the entrails of his victims?

That would be AWESOME!!! Cannibal Optimus!!! I must make a stopmotion of this!

To me it's more realistic for him to sever the head of the serpent rather than to simply wound it. Art of War at it's best. That is one of Batman's flaws as an effective hero.: His own moral code prevents him from truly stopping anyone forever. Joker can continually escape Arkham, try to kill Batman, and be sent back to repeat the process. For Batman, it works for the betterment of his character. He experienced loss and wont head down that road. For Prime (movie-verse, mind you) he is seeking the opposite: Kill or be killed. He doesn't go into a fight aiming for the jugular. But when confronted with seemingly insurmountable odds (i.e., the Forest: 3 on 1 fight against Megatron, Starscream, and Grindor, arguably 3 of the most dangerous foes to engage in a fight in ROTF) he does what is necessary to be victorious. Granted, ripping Grindor's head in half may be a bit excessive, but you can't fault him for giving us such great cinematic moments all while trying to fight off Decepticon slag

SlyTF1 wrote:

Kanrabat- wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote: I like that Optimus kills people.

What's next? Optimus feeding off the entrails of his victims?

That would be AWESOME!!! Cannibal Optimus!!! I must make a stopmotion of this!

...

Well...

PM me when you are done, okay?

Kanrabat- wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote:

Kanrabat- wrote:

SlyTF1 wrote: I like that Optimus kills people.

What's next? Optimus feeding off the entrails of his victims?

That would be AWESOME!!! Cannibal Optimus!!! I must make a stopmotion of this!

...

Well...

PM me when you are done, okay?

It probably won't be any time soon. I can't find my camcorder program for my laptop!!! I've been looking for 7 months now!

Kanrabat- wrote:In all the cartoons, Optimus Prime fight for justice and freedom. Like Batman, he will never kill or finish off anyone, even the Decepticons. Jeez, the only time he had to execute a being, was that guy: and he even covered his eyes for not looking at the horror. In Animated, he captured Meg instead of killing him. You may call Optimus Prime from the toons a pussy. I call him, well, a hero, a saint.

But in the Baymovies... Especially in ROTF... Man, Optimus Prime became a BLOODTHIRSTY MONSTER! Execution with a lazer blast through the head, decapitations, dismemberment... Nothing is too gruesome for him. Jazz is dead and what Prime say? "Oh well, lol!" Jetfire sacrifice himself to give him a boost. After his use, Prime discard the remains and don't give a flying **** What a heartless bastard.

So, I must ask you: WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?

What happened? after the first TF movie, people bitched and complained that he was to much of a pussy since Megatron pretty much tosed him around like a rag doll. So bay responded and made him bad ass!
IMO, this is how he should be. He's a leader. A military leader at that. He's not supposed to take crap, an do what needs to be done.
As far as his past personalities in the cartoons, those were cartoons. Not live action movies. Times have changed my friend. He's not the softy you knew when he was in G1 and animated. And I think thats a good thing.

Kanrabat, you are not alone. Michael Bay-tachi shouldn't use the fact that the victims are robots as an excuse to turn Optimus Prime, whose very name inspires hope, into Jason Voorhees.

What happened? The Decepticons are actually KILLING people. In shockingly large numbers too, I must add. Bonecrusher, Grindor, Demolishor, the Fallen, Megatron, every Con Optimus took out displayed complete apathy towards humans and Autobots alike, even going out of their way to kill any and all in their way.
Perfect example: Bonecrusher; he flipped cars (with people in them) and smashed through a bus before tackling Optimus.

Imprisonment is impossible, especially since most of them are a good deal larger than the Autobots. So Optimus has no real option but to terminate the Decepticons, which -being literal war machines- take more than the typical Hollywood vague-stab/slash/shot-to-the-chest.

Optimus harkens from a golden age of Cybertron, and wants to carry that ideal through the war to a new one, but it's an age of war now.

I like the portrayal in the movies, but don't consider him bloodthirsty- instead it's just another aspect of Cybertronian culture, a more primal one than the later golden age and great war. Optimus is a "real Man" by his society's standards. Megz will despise him for defending the weak and the lesser Deceps will buy into Megzys' words, but Primes' face ripping (the removal of a rival warriors identity) establishes Prime as a more dangerous identity than Megzy's whole war tribe.

Also, Jazz fights Brawl just as vigorously, size and armor differences aside- He literally starts taking Brawl apart. I'd have loved to see that redone as a 3 Autobot vs 1 Decep (say Jazz, Prowl or Cliffjumper and Bluestreak): They'd swarm all over and scrap Brawl.

Ok, but jeez!

um in the 1986 movie when Optimus came to help autobot city he killed a few decepticons on his way to take on Megatron

SkySeige wrote:um in the 1986 movie when Optimus came to help autobot city he killed a few decepticons on his way to take on Megatron

Yeah, Prime was never a pacifist. The only reason he was never shown killing is because Hasbro wanted the Decepticons alive so they could keep selling toys of them. You can't start killing everyone all willy-nilly with an ensemble cast, otherwise they'd have to constantly introduce new villains. That's why faceless Stormtroopers are so popular, you can kill a million of them and never need to replace cast members.

As for the brutality, have you SEEN the kinds of beatings they can take? And the stuff they can recover from? Starscream's arm was ripped off, but he just placed it back on and he was perfectly fine. You want a Cybertronian dead in the movies, you have to try really, really hard.

He is fairly violent, but not the most violent. WFC Prime's the most. And, it's a prediction, but I feel like Prime Prime might quite violent. Face it, Prime's getting hardened by 27 years of fighing.

SkySeige wrote:um in the 1986 movie when Optimus came to help autobot city he killed a few decepticons on his way to take on Megatron

Actually that's not quite accurate.

He shot them down and they were later jettisoned from Astrotrain as they were dying weight.

Amongst those who were jettisoned: Thundercracker, Skywarp, Bombshell, Kick-Back, Shrapnel.
He shot others too, but only they were dying.



I'm not even sure the Decepticons suffered any losses during the battle. At the end they lost and Megatron was left dying. Plus the previously mentioned D'cons.

It's war. Optimus has been killing since G1. War Dawn's flashback, anyone?

This is basically G1 unfiltered, where we see the full aftereffects of the Ultimate Doom, or an energy raid gone wrong.

Also, about Jetfire, his 'donated' parts were pretty trashed during the fight. Seemed to me they feel off more than were pulled off.

War is Hell and not like the autobots were breaking into Decepticons home and shooting sparklings in the face to prevent the next Megatron from rising up in the future; no they were defending a no fly from invasion. If the Decepticons want to live...stay the slag off of earth..Period. They came here to cause trouble and found it.

The Decepitcons killed thousands of people in the movies. Blackout alone buried hundreds. The Fallen and the gang took down an entire carrier of people when they arrived. THEIR ULTIMATE PLAN WAS TO KILL ALL LIFE ON EARTH. Tell me Prime should have responded with any less force and cost the lives of every human on the planet. In war you don't get the luxury of detaining every single opponent for trial and imprisonment.

Batman did face a scenario where he killed Darkseid to try and save all existence from enslavement, so those using comics as an example have a flawed case. If the stakes are high enough a hero does what needs to be done. I dislike the only true heroes don't kill BS.(Superman , Spiderman and just about every other major hero has take a life at some point.) Just because G1 operated under Saturday morning cartoons physics doesn't mean there wasn't lethal intent by the decepticons 80% of the time. In pretty much every continuity outside the cartoons there's tons of body counts for transformers. (War For Cybertron both sides slay mountains of transformers.)

This sympathy for the devil is laughable. Shooting evil in the face is what Decepticons under stand. They can't be reasoned with. They can't be imprisoned or tried. What else is there to do but let them escape and kill more humans and autobots or take them down when they can.

In Prime's defense he also showed alot of remorse for for fighting Megatron in the first film. He seemed to want to try to talk to his Brother in arms. Between the people in the area and his relationship he likely held back alot as we see him cut loose to save Sam like father protecting one of his children. I know if someone wanted to harm my family I'd fight with every fiber of my being. I'd expect no less of Optimus Prime. He was noble till the end in my book.

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:It's war. Optimus has been killing since G1. War Dawn's flashback, anyone?

This is basically G1 unfiltered, where we see the full aftereffects of the Ultimate Doom, or an energy raid gone wrong.

Also, about Jetfire, his 'donated' parts were pretty trashed during the fight. Seemed to me they feel off more than were pulled off.

Agreed on both accounts. The Fallen took off one of the afterburners for sure during the fight, and smash up all the add ons Prime received. Honestly there's no way that power up would have remained permantly or it would forced megatron or whatever next foe(shockwave) to amp to match him. Then it would be a DBZ style power creeping. This series doesn't need that. Besides it would change the way Prime is too radically. (which we'd never hear the end of that.) Other than the irony is Jet-optimus is pretty close to how Animated 's endgame went as I guess the ultimate power is a fly Truck heh.

Batman has been criticized for his inability to kill, especially in regards to the Joker. Batman's trying to fight a war without taking a life, and both Jason Todd and Barbara Gordon can attest to how well that's working.

Prime is a Soldier fighting on the losing side of a war against genocidal warbots under the leadership of a Megalomaniac......I dont see why he should spare any of them.

Movie Optimus and Animated Movie Optimus is THE asskicker.long may it last

Kanrabat- wrote:In all the cartoons, Optimus Prime fight for justice and freedom. Like Batman, he will never kill or finish off anyone, even the Decepticons. Jeez, the only time he had to execute a being, was that guy: and he even covered his eyes for not looking at the horror.

A] The only reason we didnt see Optimus kill anyone in the 80's was because it was a kids show from the 80's.

They didnt kill regular characters back then on tv in a kids show.

B] Your premis here is faulty because in a flash back to the day Optimus was created, the first thing he does is kill several Decepticons.

B] your Batman conpareison fails.Batman has killed before and has demonstrated he's willing to kill if absolutely necessary.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:your Batman conpareison fails.Batman has killed before and has demonstrated he's willing to kill if absolutely necessary.

I'd like to know how he defines "Necessary," and how the crazed clown who killed Jason Todd and paralyzed Barbara Gordon doesn't fall under it.

Shadowman wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:your Batman conpareison fails.Batman has killed before and has demonstrated he's willing to kill if absolutely necessary.

I'd like to know how he defines "Necessary," and how the crazed clown who killed Jason Todd and paralyzed Barbara Gordon doesn't fall under it.

Why doesn't Batman just kill the criminals!? It'd be so much easier, because they wouldn't come back every week! Batman's enemies are lucky, if I was Batman, all of them would be dead.

Shadowman wrote:

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:your Batman conpareison fails.Batman has killed before and has demonstrated he's willing to kill if absolutely necessary.

I'd like to know how he defines "Necessary," and how the crazed clown who killed Jason Todd and paralyzed Barbara Gordon doesn't fall under it.

Honestly I feel the scale he uses is flawed.

He has shown he's willing to kill Superman, if Superman would ever go bad.

He tried to kill Darkside recently.

But Joker, almost but always stopped himself.