The Energon Pub

no facts just my opinion.

i don't know if this has ever mentioned before but i think it is not a good idea that the autobots are insisting their allies to solve human conflicts. in this case they are supporting the americans to "police" the world. Optimus Prime stated this at the beginning of the film.

shouldn't they choose non-intervention. the earth isn't their "home"... yeah i know Optimus Prime consider earth as their new home but it's not. it's displayed in the film, humans are - they are in charge.

the americans are using the aubobots as deterrence. what would happen if other Transformers/Cybertronians cooperate with other countries like china, russia... or terrorists aka al-Qaida.

now I could imagine if they keep this up their would be no two fractions [autobots and decepticons] any longer. at the end the Cybertronians fight for what they believe in and choose which country to defect.

It just... bothers me a little.

I think there is a little assumption there

They said they were helping their allies get rid of 'Weapons of Mass Destruction' and illegal weapon sites

I'm sure they would only help in missions where they felt it was for the good of humanity, like securing rogue nukes etc

Superion12345 wrote: the americans are using the aubobots as deterrence. what would happen if other Transformers/Cybertronians cooperate with other countries like china, russia... or terrorists aka al-Qaida.

now I could imagine if they keep this up their would be no two fractions [autobots and decepticons] any longer. at the end the Cybertronians fight for what they believe in and choose which country to defect.

It just... bothers me a little.

Are you putting China and Russia in the same catagory as Al-Qaida? Because that I don't believe is the case at all.

@ScoutSi
yea, maybe a little to much assumption. the only thing i am trying to say they choose non-intervention.

@dirk2243
no, i am not putting them in the same catagory. just making examples. not here to offend someone.

he problem with being world police is the role of police which is

- to uphold the law of the governing state
- maintain the status quo
- Preserve the ideals of the governing state.

I also saw autobots as autonminous, but thats maybe a G1 failing of mine.

In addition if they do work with americans, it means that the US has gained domination and the rest of the world is essentially at its mercy. As we all know, wars can begin over minor things, and leaders displaced when they displeasure the governing body. Always thought autobots were far too pure to get involved in nationalist politics. The rest of the world does not sleep easy.

So do they escalate the arms race to nuclear weapons, making the world a more dangerous place, or do the bots become the hand around the neck strangling dissent. Not a role the if not pacifist, but peace loving beings thwy claim to be

Now if the bots are not aligned to US policy and military convention, then you have a bunch of free lance mercenaries as such, who intervene when they deem appropriate, where national border sovereignty or local law is subjagated to the will of what prime and the bots deem right.

For me Bots should remain independent observers, to avoid becoming what the cons were on cybertron

I think with them living on US soil they basically were told to earn their keep. I think they had that in the film mostly to have them out in the field so they could gain the engine part in Russia, since they say they patrol more so to keep an eye on Decepticons than to really put their foot up human government's butts. If they never left the base then it would be hard for them to have found.

shamone wrote: I Always thought autobots were far too pure to get involved in nationalist politics. The rest of the world does not sleep easy.

So do they escalate the arms race to nuclear weapons, making the world a more dangerous place, or do the bots become the hand around the neck strangling dissent. Not a role the if not pacifist, but peace loving beings they claim to be

Now if the bots are not aligned to US policy and military convention, then you have a bunch of free lance mercenaries as such, who intervene when they deem appropriate, where national border sovereignty or local law is subjugated to the will of what prime and the bots deem right.

For me Bots should remain independent observers, to avoid becoming what the cons were on cybertron

I agree, Having bots on your side only creates conflict with other people or countries its like have a special weapon or a cheat lol

Alec wrote:

shamone wrote: I Always thought autobots were far too pure to get involved in nationalist politics. The rest of the world does not sleep easy.

So do they escalate the arms race to nuclear weapons, making the world a more dangerous place, or do the bots become the hand around the neck strangling dissent. Not a role the if not pacifist, but peace loving beings they claim to be

Now if the bots are not aligned to US policy and military convention, then you have a bunch of free lance mercenaries as such, who intervene when they deem appropriate, where national border sovereignty or local law is subjugated to the will of what prime and the bots deem right.

For me Bots should remain independent observers, to avoid becoming what the cons were on cybertron

I agree, Having bots on your side only creates conflict with other people or countries its like have a special weapon or a cheat lol

If you read the Pre-qual to ROTF it covers a lot of the coalition grouped up to form NEST. China, Britian, Russia, Japan and what not are mentioned as being active members. And in the start of ROTF it shows an arm band of one of the soldiers as British.

And the scene with the TF's blasting through and destroying a building it really didn't look like many if any got hurt. Yeah, Dino stopped and transformed but he didn't look to honestly hurt anyone. More of a.....your not going to stop us kind of approach. Even the rockets BB fired didn't look that large or devestating. Did what it needed to kinda thing. I see it as perhaps the U.N. asked them / suspected them of building WMD's and the autobots went in and stopped it.

dirk2243 wrote:If you read the Pre-qual to ROTF it covers a lot of the coalition grouped up to form NEST. China, Britian, Russia, Japan and what not are mentioned as being active members. And in the start of ROTF it shows an arm band of one of the soldiers as British.

And the scene with the TF's blasting through and destroying a building it really didn't look like many if any got hurt. Yeah, Dino stopped and transformed but he didn't look to honestly hurt anyone. More of a.....your not going to stop us kind of approach. Even the rockets BB fired didn't look that large or devestating. Did what it needed to kinda thing. I see it as perhaps the U.N. asked them / suspected them of building WMD's and the autobots went in and stopped it.

I havent read the Pre-qual to ROTF yet and am planning on doing so soon and didn't know that it was made up of different militaries.

and your right with Dino and the "your not gonna stop us approach" but BB and the missiles looked a little like it was big enough to inflect some damage but thats just me

And in the start of ROTF it shows an arm band of one of the soldiers as British.

Which one of the soldiers played by Matthew Marsden who spoke a few lines was Carly Spencer's brother. He died during the battle with the Fallen, given how many soldiers got wasted during the fight it's easy to believe. Which explains why both Carly and Sam would be collecting medals from the president. We see Matthew Marsden's picture on the desk when they're talking in their apartment his death.

Lastjustice wrote:Which explains why both Carly and Sam would be collecting medals from the president.

Wait Carly got a medal too?

Alec wrote:

Lastjustice wrote:Which explains why both Carly and Sam would be collecting medals from the president.

Wait Carly got a medal too?

Yes since her brother died saving the Earth from total destruction.(I'm guessing that gets a soldier the medal of honor.) The family of fallen soldiers gets medals for them in their honor.(so they can place them on their graves or whatever memorial in their memory.) This why she was so worried about Sam rejoining the Decepticon/Autobot war because her brother died, and she said she'd much rather have her brother back instead of the medals.

Matthew Marsden played an SAS soldier in ROTF who was part of NEST, and i'm sure he survived


The soldier in the picture, Carly's brother, was NOT Matthew Mardsen, but he was an SAS soldier.

dirk2243 wrote:If you read the Pre-qual to ROTF it covers a lot of the coalition grouped up to form NEST. China, Britian, Russia, Japan and what not are mentioned as being active members. And in the start of ROTF it shows an arm band of one of the soldiers as British.

And the scene with the TF's blasting through and destroying a building it really didn't look like many if any got hurt. Yeah, Dino stopped and transformed but he didn't look to honestly hurt anyone. More of a.....your not going to stop us kind of approach. Even the rockets BB fired didn't look that large or devestating. Did what it needed to kinda thing. I see it as perhaps the U.N. asked them / suspected them of building WMD's and the autobots went in and stopped it.

i read the pre-qual TF Comics and i remember those ROTM scenes in china. But it was stated that the autobots work together with the humans (NEST Organization) to hunt down the Decepticons. IMO, is that Optimus is taking care of his own mess - "their war shifted on earth". But he has to follow or obey "Earthling" rules / regulations. But this is different from DOTM - he is messing around with HUMAN conflicts.

The other thing what you mentioned about the autobots don't wreak havoc or even hurt people. For me it doesn't count. The opposing fraction doesn't care about that. you don't honestly believe the "bad" guys think "oh they didnt hurt us... the only destroyed our devastating weapons... i am fine with..."

And throughout the whole Transformers Films (1-3) the autobots never cause casualties or at least injure them (on screen)
like the first movie where optimus was on the highway - he never trample on a car. or in the city the epic battle between him and Megatron - got shot flew around but didnt hurt anyone... like always barely touched a human with his big feet.
DOTM scene where bumblebee crashed with the Cybertronian Spacecraft - like always no human harm done.

For me this all are just movie magic.

Lastjustice wrote:I think with them living on US soil they basically were told to earn their keep. I think they had that in the film mostly to have them out in the field so they could gain the engine part in Russia, since they say they patrol more so to keep an eye on Decepticons than to really put their foot up human government's butts. If they never left the base then it would be hard for them to have found.

yeah, Optimus mentioned "search for signs about our true enemies" or something like that. but as i stated they should refrain their action.

dirk2243 wrote:

Superion12345 wrote:Are you putting China and Russia in the same catagory as Al-Qaida?

Because that I don't believe is the case at all.

ok, better response (i know i replied already).
i was referring to world powers. other world powers could hire the transformers with better conditions.

the best bet would be they'll be part of the UN so no one country can be in control of them...


the bad part is when optimus prime gets a little too much in policing the world that he goes all...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itmNiTwHOsM

ScoutSi wrote:Matthew Marsden played an SAS soldier in ROTF who was part of NEST, and i'm sure he survived


The soldier in the picture, Carly's brother, was NOT Matthew Mardsen, but he was an SAS soldier.

Well we see his picture I believe on the desk. (it's possible it's a different actor.) If they had his credits as *rank* Spencer it would be a slam dunk that it was him. Looked like the same brit who talked during revenge of the fallen, I'm sure someone more obessive than myself will figure out for certain.

Lastjustice wrote:

ScoutSi wrote:Matthew Marsden played an SAS soldier in ROTF who was part of NEST, and i'm sure he survived


The soldier in the picture, Carly's brother, was NOT Matthew Mardsen, but he was an SAS soldier.

Well we see his picture I believe on the desk. (it's possible it's a different actor.) If they had his credits as *rank* Spencer it would be a slam dunk that it was him. Looked like the same brit who talked during revenge of the fallen, I'm sure someone more obessive than myself will figure out for certain.

Yeah I guess they may have wriiten it to be him, but the dude in the photo is a different guy, its not Matthew Marsden

Superion12345 wrote:

dirk2243 wrote:If you read the Pre-qual to ROTF it covers a lot of the coalition grouped up to form NEST. China, Britian, Russia, Japan and what not are mentioned as being active members. And in the start of ROTF it shows an arm band of one of the soldiers as British.

And the scene with the TF's blasting through and destroying a building it really didn't look like many if any got hurt. Yeah, Dino stopped and transformed but he didn't look to honestly hurt anyone. More of a.....your not going to stop us kind of approach. Even the rockets BB fired didn't look that large or devestating. Did what it needed to kinda thing. I see it as perhaps the U.N. asked them / suspected them of building WMD's and the autobots went in and stopped it.

i read the pre-qual TF Comics and i remember those ROTM scenes in china. But it was stated that the autobots work together with the humans (NEST Organization) to hunt down the Decepticons. IMO, is that Optimus is taking care of his own mess - "their war shifted on earth". But he has to follow or obey "Earthling" rules / regulations. But this is different from DOTM - he is messing around with HUMAN conflicts.

The other thing what you mentioned about the autobots don't wreak havoc or even hurt people. For me it doesn't count. The opposing fraction doesn't care about that. you don't honestly believe the "bad" guys think "oh they didnt hurt us... the only destroyed our devastating weapons... i am fine with..."

And throughout the whole Transformers Films (1-3) the autobots never cause casualties or at least injure them (on screen)
like the first movie where optimus was on the highway - he never trample on a car. or in the city the epic battle between him and Megatron - got shot flew around but didnt hurt anyone... like always barely touched a human with his big feet.
DOTM scene where bumblebee crashed with the Cybertronian Spacecraft - like always no human harm done.

For me this all are just movie magic.

Lastjustice wrote:I think with them living on US soil they basically were told to earn their keep. I think they had that in the film mostly to have them out in the field so they could gain the engine part in Russia, since they say they patrol more so to keep an eye on Decepticons than to really put their foot up human government's butts. If they never left the base then it would be hard for them to have found.

yeah, Optimus mentioned "search for signs about our true enemies" or something like that. but as i stated they should refrain their action.

dirk2243 wrote:

Superion12345 wrote:Are you putting China and Russia in the same catagory as Al-Qaida?

Because that I don't believe is the case at all.

ok, better response (i know i replied already).
i was referring to world powers. other world powers could hire the transformers with better conditions.

Wow, talk about mis-quoting me. I never said autobots don't wreck havoc. Re-read my post. Only mentioned that one scene and only about Dino and BBs Rockets. And when you see DOTM again, look at the damage that bumblebees rockets did compared to lets say a tomahawk missle. here is a good example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sa7ZX58Kk4 at about 20 seconds in. The damage bumblebee did looked a little less. I'm not saying people didn't get hurt. Probably some did. But....comes with working on WMD's.

Do nukes exist....yes
Should they?......I could live without them
Are there countries that should not have them..... absolutely.
Do we (America) need to be the world police?........no
Is someone else going to do it?...........probably not any time soon.
Does there need to be one?................I don't know.

dirk2243 wrote:Wow, talk about mis-quoting me. I never said autobots don't wreck havoc. Re-read my post. Only mentioned that one scene and only about Dino and BBs Rockets. And when you see DOTM again, look at the damage that bumblebees rockets did compared to lets say a tomahawk missle. here is a good example http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sa7ZX58Kk4 at about 20 seconds in. The damage bumblebee did looked a little less. I'm not saying people didn't get hurt. Probably some did. But....comes with working on WMD's.

Do nukes exist....yes
Should they?......I could live without them
Are there countries that should not have them..... absolutely.
Do we (America) need to be the world police?........no
Is someone else going to do it?...........probably not any time soon.
Does there need to be one?................I don't know.

oh,... sorry my bad. thanks for pointing out my mistake
yea, they did alittle damage. but that's not the point.

the bots under government influence.

the rest of the world does not sleep easy. we all know how enemies can be created, threats can be escalated and so on

after all in real world would the bots have been sent into iraq to take down saddam because of 9/11. After all 70% of US citizens believed that he was personally responsible at one point due to the lies and misdirection of the government of the time.

Better the bots stay aloof, rather than work with specific armed forces or coalitions

Lastjustice wrote:Yes since her brother died saving the Earth from total destruction.(I'm guessing that gets a soldier the medal of honor.) This why she was so worried about Sam rejoining the Decepticon/Autobot war because her brother died, and she said she'd much rather have her brother back instead of the medals.

ok got it sorry that part slipped my mind idk how ive seen the movie DOTM 4 times now lo

shamone wrote:the bots under government influence. the rest of the world does not sleep easy. Better the bots stay aloof, rather than work with specific armed forces or coalitions

I agree with this if someone is "controlling" the bots the world sleeps easy thinking there safe from autobots just "on the loose"

Alec wrote:

Lastjustice wrote:Yes since her brother died saving the Earth from total destruction.(I'm guessing that gets a soldier the medal of honor.) This why she was so worried about Sam rejoining the Decepticon/Autobot war because her brother died, and she said she'd much rather have her brother back instead of the medals.

ok got it sorry that part slipped my mind idk how ive seen the movie DOTM 4 times now lo

shamone wrote:the bots under government influence. the rest of the world does not sleep easy. Better the bots stay aloof, rather than work with specific armed forces or coalitions

I agree with this if someone is "controlling" the bots the world sleeps easy thinking there safe from autobots just "on the loose"

I dont know if ypu got my point

im saying bots under govt control means the rest of the world does NOT sleep easy, knowing that they have to do what the controlling forces say, as they have this awesome arsenal in their power.

shamone wrote:I dont know if ypu got my point

im saying bots under govt control means the rest of the world does NOT sleep easy, knowing that they have to do what the controlling forces say, as they have this awesome arsenal in their power.

oohh ok i get it my bad yea that makes sense but it means whoever has them under there control there people will sleep easy.

Alec wrote:

shamone wrote:I dont know if ypu got my point

im saying bots under govt control means the rest of the world does NOT sleep easy, knowing that they have to do what the controlling forces say, as they have this awesome arsenal in their power.

oohh ok i get it my bad yea that makes sense but it means whoever has them under there control there people will sleep easy.

oh yes the people will feel secure, unless they are identified as "radicals" or "terrorists"

shamone wrote:

Alec wrote:

shamone wrote:I dont know if ypu got my point

im saying bots under govt control means the rest of the world does NOT sleep easy, knowing that they have to do what the controlling forces say, as they have this awesome arsenal in their power.

oohh ok i get it my bad yea that makes sense but it means whoever has them under there control there people will sleep easy.

oh yes the people will feel secure, unless they are identified as "radicals" or "terrorists"

thats what I was going to say if the "radicals" or "terrorists" have the bots to there disposal then they would feel secure and we would be screwed