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who needs decepticons with personality anyway?
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:09 amby roy_flagg00
I am not a "G1 fiend".
I have to say from a completely objective perspective that I don't know anything more about the decepticons after seeing this movie. All I know is that starscream failed megatron again and that the decepticons talk funny. I was wondering if anyone else was disapointed with the lack of decepticon character development?
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:11 amby Nico
I din't even saw the movie, but i already the Decepticon BARELY have personnality.
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:15 amby Darth Bombshell
This is where reading into the big picture becomes necessary. Both "Ghosts of Yesterday" and the movie prequel do more than a good job of establishing the Decepticons, and it's not hard to see that there's a loose trilogy of sorts between them, where reading one is necessary for understanding the other two.
It's sort of like how the Star Wars Expanded Universe is treated by Star Wars fans. The people who claim the movies should go deeper into things like character development and explanations don't seem to realize that's what the books are for.
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:15 amby Decepticon Spike
I think they went with how it is in every version of TF "Decepticons are evil" and left it at that.
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:18 amby Nico
Darth Bombshell wrote:This is where reading into the big picture becomes necessary. Both "Ghosts of Yesterday" and the movie prequel do more than a good job of establishing the Decepticons, and it's not hard to see that there's a loose trilogy of sorts between them, where reading one is necessary for understanding the other two.
It's sort of like how the Star Wars Expanded Universe is treated by Star Wars fans. The people who claim the movies should go deeper into things like character development and explanations don't seem to realize that's what the books are for.
Its not MY fault if they aren't available where i live!
But if they are,
PLEASE TELL ME!!!
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:19 amby SunScourge
Darth Bombshell wrote:This is where reading into the big picture becomes necessary. Both "Ghosts of Yesterday" and the movie prequel do more than a good job of establishing the Decepticons, and it's not hard to see that there's a loose trilogy of sorts between them, where reading one is necessary for understanding the other two.
It's sort of like how the Star Wars Expanded Universe is treated by Star Wars fans. The people who claim the movies should go deeper into things like character development and explanations don't seem to realize that's what the books are for.
Totally agree.
1. Barricade = Mean and gets the job done
2. Bonecrusher = Gun ho but not to bright
3. Starscream = Good old Starscream
4. Devasator/Brawl = Mean
5. Blackout = Mean
But I hope that in part 2 the decepticons get more play. I want part 2 to be like Transformers rise of the decepticons.
Re: who needs decepticons with personality anyway?
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:25 amby Spoon
roy_flagg00 wrote:I am not a "G1 fiend".
I have to say from a completely objective perspective that I don't know anything more about the decepticons after seeing this movie. All I know is that starscream failed megatron again and that the decepticons talk funny. I was wondering if anyone else was disapointed with the lack of decepticon character development?
Yeah. Unfortunatly it was a total fail.
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:31 amby Darth Bombshell
Nico wrote:Its not MY fault if they aren't available where i live!
But if they are, PLEASE TELL ME!!!
Starscream's pretty much portrayed as he always was, and even takes out Blackout when he dares to question Starscream's leadership.
Barricade is pretty much unhappy with Starscream being the boss, but is willing to put up with it as long as it leads to getting Megatron back.
Bonecrusher is pretty much a heavy, but by the end of "Ghosts" he starts to question Starscream's leadership as well.
Frenzy and Scorponok don't exactly get that much characterization, but seeing as how both are pretty much the same as Bonecrusher, that doesn't seem like much of a problem for me.
Blackout follow Starscream, but doesn't appear to trust him, even daring to challenge him for leadership of the Decepticons near the end of "Ghosts". Naturally, he loses.
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:36 amby roy_flagg00
Btw, most people don't read comic books.
If you want to give bay the benefit of the doubt, go ahead.
But I have said it before in other threads, if there was no original source material, fine, but there was, and he had more than enough to draw from in order to create CHARACTERS, not just machines who talk funny.
I could ASSUME pretty much anything about the decepticons. A good movie does not leave you assuming major personality atributes.
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:42 pmby Riotflea
Here's what I walked away with...
-All the Decepticons are mean.
-Either a scene was missed or Megatron had some non-movie event take place where Starscream failed him.
-Frenzy was mean too, but did just about everything for the bad guys as well as clearly having an understanding of Earth people.
Most uncool, I'm sorry.
Frenzy, with an overlaid hologram (like the drivers in the Decepticon vehicles), would have been able to get more done at the end of the day than the rest of them.
He's the only one who even came close to character developement. He seemed... "happy" with what he does.
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:53 pmby Hi-Q
They did not have nearly enough time to give personality to everybody.
The decepticons will have their opportunity next movie.
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:54 pmby KSC
I'm not really sure what you were looking for here. Look at Darth Maul, what did anyone know about him from The Phantom Menace? Nothing, he was just a baddass. You wanna find out his backstory, thats where the comics (EU) stuff comes in. What should they have done had a decepticon tea party?
Granted even a three minute scene where they talked with one another would have been great, but they werent together the entire movie. It would have been difficult if a Jet, a tank, and a police car all hung out in the same spot ya know?
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:22 pmby DISCHARGE
Riotflea wrote:Here's what I walked away with...
-All the Decepticons are mean.
-Either a scene was missed or Megatron had some non-movie event take place where Starscream failed him.
-Frenzy was mean too, but did just about everything for the bad guys as well as clearly having an understanding of Earth people.
Most uncool, I'm sorry.
Frenzy, with an overlaid hologram (like the drivers in the Decepticon vehicles), would have been able to get more done at the end of the day than the rest of them.
He's the only one who even came close to character developement. He seemed... "happy" with what he does.
Starscream failed Megatron when he allowed the humans to get away with the Allspark. I think the personalities were
portrayed well for people who have been following Transformers for a while.
Frenzy was the ultimate infiltrator.
MMMM...fireworks time!!
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 9:48 pmby Neo Tallgeese
With the exception of Barricade, Frenzy, and Megatron, the Decepticons just appeared and did little more than just start shooting and destroying stuff. (Granted Starscreem had a bit more of a part). Add this to the fact that they were introduced so late in the movie, and this leaves them feeling like they were just there.
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:17 pmby Rolling Thunder
Darth Bombshell wrote:This is where reading into the big picture becomes necessary. Both "Ghosts of Yesterday" and the movie prequel do more than a good job of establishing the Decepticons, and it's not hard to see that there's a loose trilogy of sorts between them, where reading one is necessary for understanding the other two.
It's sort of like how the Star Wars Expanded Universe is treated by Star Wars fans. The people who claim the movies should go deeper into things like character development and explanations don't seem to realize that's what the books are for.
Ok, except you got movies like Spider-man that succeed in explaining everything within the movie, no comic books/videogames needed.
I shouldn't have to buy a comic book or videogame to understand a movie. If done right, the movie should be able to stand solid on its own, and all the comic and videogame tie ins should do nothing more than add to the experience if the person in question is wanting more after seeing the movie.
So have to totally disagree with you on that point, sorry.
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:19 pmby Riotflea
Ok, except you got movies like Spider-man that succeed in explaining everything within the movie, no comic books/videogames needed.
I shouldn't have to buy a comic book or videogame to understand a movie. If done right, the movie should be able to stand solid on its own,
And really, for the great length of this movie, your point becomes ever more so true.
There was just too much human goin' on.
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:21 pmby Hi-Q
Rolling Thunder wrote:Darth Bombshell wrote:This is where reading into the big picture becomes necessary. Both "Ghosts of Yesterday" and the movie prequel do more than a good job of establishing the Decepticons, and it's not hard to see that there's a loose trilogy of sorts between them, where reading one is necessary for understanding the other two.
It's sort of like how the Star Wars Expanded Universe is treated by Star Wars fans. The people who claim the movies should go deeper into things like character development and explanations don't seem to realize that's what the books are for.
Ok, except you got movies like Spider-man that succeed in explaining everything within the movie, no comic books/videogames needed.
I shouldn't have to buy a comic book or videogame to understand a movie. If done right, the movie should be able to stand solid on its own, and all the comic and videogame tie ins should do nothing more than add to the experience if the person in question is wanting more after seeing the movie.
So have to totally disagree with you on that point, sorry.
Um, when was the last comic book movie that had TWELVE superheros/villians?
Not even close to a fair comparison.
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:22 pmby Darth Bombshell
Rolling Thunder wrote:I shouldn't have to buy a comic book or videogame to understand a movie. If done right, the movie should be able to stand solid on its own, and all the comic and videogame tie ins should do nothing more than add to the experience if the person in question is wanting more after seeing the movie.
No one's "making" you do anything. You don't "have" to buy a novel or a comic to understand the story. I doubt that pleasing the most hardcore of fans (or those who had automatically decided to hate the movie just because Michael Bay's name was attached to it) was on the minds of Chris Ryall, Alan Dean Foster and Simon Furman when they crafted the prequel tales. They wanted to create the backdrop upon which the movie events would be based, so they did. People who wanted to look for it could. Those who didn't...well, they didn't have to. You don't exactly criticize the opening twenty minutes of "Revenge of the Sith" just because it's coming off of a combination novel/cartoon that set it up, do you? (Putting aside for a moment the fact that both mediums, which presenting the same info, diverge very widely in how they tell it.)
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:26 pmby Scream
Starscream had barely any screen time, he only had 2 lines. Barricade talked i line and dissapeared in the highway. Brawl didn't seem pissed off at all and seemed completely Calm. The only cons that were done correctly were Megatron, Blackout, Frenzy, Scorpy, and bonecrusher.
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:26 pmby Scream
Scream wrote:Starscream had barely any screen time, he only had 2 lines. Barricade talked i line and dissapeared in the highway. Brawl didn't seem pissed off at all and seemed completely Calm. The only cons that were done correctly were Megatron, Blackout, Frenzy, Scorpy, and bonecrusher(exept he died too easily and fast).
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:26 pmby decepticonjon
i dunno.. with all the synergy this movie had: the prequel novel, video game, prequel comics, all telling different parts to the main story of the movie, it's hard to think that some could be combined to make a better story altogether.
didn't the matrix reloaded suffer from story holes that were filled in by the video game?
couldn't some of the good story parts told in the prequel novel and comic books and video game have been put into the movie to have made IT that much more?
and just to get back on topic, all the decepticons introductions took place in the prequel novel (which took place in the late 1960's)
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:31 pmby Darth Bombshell
decepticonjon wrote:i dunno.. with all the synergy this movie had: the prequel novel, video game, prequel comics, all telling different parts to the main story of the movie, it's hard to think that some could be combined to make a better story altogether.
It goes like this, as I see it.
Prequel comic #1
The first half of Prequel comic #2 (up to Megatron's burial in the Arctic and subsequent discovery by Captain Witwicky's group)
Ghosts of Yesterday
The latter half of Prequel comic #2
Prequel comic #3
Prequel comic #4
Now, there's a lot of conflicting continuity things (like how Bumblebee's with Prime and co. when he went off on his own, and how Bonecrusher, Frenzy and Scorponok are with Starscream in "Ghosts" when they weren't in the comics), but that's just a headache I'd prefer not to get into.
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:39 pmby DISCHARGE
Scream wrote:Scream wrote:Starscream had barely any screen time, he only had 2 lines. Barricade talked i line and dissapeared in the highway. Brawl didn't seem pissed off at all and seemed completely Calm. The only cons that were done correctly were Megatron, Blackout, Frenzy, Scorpy, and bonecrusher(exept he died too easily and fast).
Yeah, Bonecrusher did look like he was gonna really mess things up.
The fight scenes could have been longer. Especially
Starscreams. Blackout certainly left an uneasy feeling
with the soldiers.
And for Brawl, you'd be calm too if you were an armored tank.
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:45 pmby Riotflea
I doubt that pleasing the most hardcore of fans (or those who had automatically decided to hate the movie just because Michael Bay's name was attached to it)
I didn't know Michael Bay from a hole in the ground before this movie.
The major thing I think that turned people into "haters" was likely Don Murphy's first leakings of what the movie would be like...
"a tale of a boy and his first car".
As well as some time around January 2005... I'm not even sure if Bay was decided on yet.
Enjoy?
QUESTION:
Your first comments back when you started talking about the movie months ago had scared MANY people into thinking this movie's going to suck ass.
So yes or no... are scenes with "people" going to take up more than 5% of the movie's runtime, or is the movie in fact going to be what it's supposed to be about?
That of course, being big freaking robots that transform.
Don Murphy
This is my answer to every question here
-----
Where am I?
In the Village
What do you want?
Information
Whose side are you on?
That would be telling . . .
We want Information
You won't get it
By hook or by crook . . .
We will
Who are you?
The new Number Two
Who is Number One?
You are Number Six
I am not a number . . .
I'm a free man!
(Mocking laughter)
Sooooo, you're saying everything we're concerned about is unfortunately true, and that you'd rather brush us off with a joke than answer any questions?
Thanks. It seems this movie is going to be a "human scene"-filled pile of dung then.
Damn.
Don Murphy
Here is what I am saying ONLY to you-
Go bite down hard on a smelly sock and break a tooth.
Everyone else knows I am not saying what you quote there.
Neener Neener!
Thank you! That was most... non-substantive and vague. >_>
Don Murphy
Okay Clarity
Go find a friend
Preferably overweight
One that hasn't bathed this week
I am sure YOU have one.
Ask for his or her RIGHT sock
Tell them you were told to do this.
Get the sock
Now visualize a big filet mignon
I am sure mommy bought you one once
Now Bite down REAL hard
And then schedule a dentist visit.
Cannot be any clearer, Pal!
Right there. THAT'S when I knew this movie was going to be exactly what it turned out to be, fans be damned.
Posted:
Wed Jul 04, 2007 10:50 pmby D-340
I dunno, I thought they served their purpose. Megs got the most screen time, so I'm guessing that's what counts.
Look at the first X-men. Magneto got all kinds of characterization, but to hell with the rest. Mystique, Toad, and Sabertooth get the short end of the stick. Sabertooth especially made me angry, one of my fav villians, a really good character, and he was reduced to the team's muscle. He had like two or three lines, then he bought it. Kinda like some of the 'Cons here. Seems like alot of movies based on shows/comics with a sequel or two follow this formula. A shame really, some peoples favorite characters get the shaft, when it's not totally necessary.