The Energon Pub

Posted: **Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:35 am**

The purpose of this thread will be for me to share some of the data, analysis, and speculation I have on the mechanics of the game. I do this to help educate how the game works (as best as we non-staff peons can work it out anyways) for those that want to know.

This thread is NOT about telling people they play the wrong way. Play however you want, it's a game you're supposed to have fun.

I may not share everything I have depending on how much of it was compiled by mostly Decepticon sources but what I will give you are some easy to process charts/graphs/lists of all TAG data and of some of the mechanics that are already know (as seen in your Iacon Index thread).

But it's not just about me preaching the the good word of mathematics, I'd like to know what yinz are interested in learning about so I can (hopefully) explore those areas in the future.

Updates will be forthcoming as I make the pretty pics &/or remember/think-of stuff I've missed.

Posted: **Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:35 am**

Brawling damage:

Brawling.png

Basic Weapons:

BasWeap.png

Most Overpowered Weapons
(Up to 12 upgrade weapons)

Untitled.png

Ram Damage:

RamDam.png

Damage Repaired:

RepairDam.png

Strafe (1st Shot):

Strafe1stshot.png

Strafe (Subsequent Shots):

Strafeothershots.png

This spot reserved for more data

Posted: **Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:36 am**

Weapons by Number of Upgrades

1

1Weap.png

2

2Weap.png

3

3Weap.png

4

4Weap.png

5

5Weap.png

6

6Weap.png

7

7Weap.png

8

8Weap.png

9

9Weap.png

10

10Weap.png

Posted: **Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:42 am**

More weapons by number of upgrades:

11

11Weap.png

12

12Weap.png

13

13Weap.png

14

14Weap.png

17

17Weap.png

20

Posted: **Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:40 pm**

Thanks for the data. ;)^

Wondering what you think of this:
My observations of repair is that it causes the one being repaired to be stunned for a turn. I do not remember any mission where someone gets repaired and then takes the immediate next action.
Usually it is a 0:25+ second delay, UNLESS target is attacked (rammed?) sooner?
One example:
https://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar/view_mission.php?mission_id=96145
With the time exception:

05:00 Magnus Prime transforms into a Battle Station and repairs F15 eric eagle2275. F15 eric eagle2275 has been fully repaired!
05:08 Kill-Vulcan transforms into a Tank and rams F15 eric eagle2275.
05:14 F15 eric eagle2275 transforms into a Fighter and strafes

In this one https://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar/view_mission.php?mission_id=96215
it seems Tri-Fury is repaired so much, he rarely gets to attack.

Edit:
Here is another example of a ram resetting the theoretical "repair stun" early and since both have 10 strength, Good Samaritan is not stunned.
https://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar/view_mission.php?mission_id=96737

stun.jpg

Finally found one where the one repaired takes the next action, but it is still 28 seconds later.

05:56 Louie transforms into a Opportunistic Air Animal and repairs Angelica. Angelica is damaged (44% power remaining).
06:24 Angelica transforms into a Sharkticon and Bites Doubledealer. Doubledealer has gone into stasis lock!

New development, it has been suspected that Bite is like ram but does not cause stun, but in this instance, Bite breaks the repair stun like ram does, with Disillusioned taking action only 14 seconds after being repaired.
https://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwar/view_mission.php?mission_id=97403

01:24 paul porsche359 2275 transforms into a Light Rescue Vehicle and repairs Disillusioned. Disillusioned has been fully repaired! Modified Porsche 959
01:30 Chompy transforms into a Sharkticon and Bites Disillusioned. Disillusioned is injured (62% power remaining). Sharkticon
01:34 paul porsche359 2275 hits Chompy with a Dual-Bladed Lightsaber. Chompy is damaged (36% power remaining).
01:38 Disillusioned hits Chompy with a XS2 Ionised Null-Ray. Chompy is severely injured (13% power remaining).

Posted: **Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:50 pm**

That is an interesting observation I've never noticed before...

It would make sense in a weird way since Repair is just the inverse of Ram as far as damage...

I'll try to pay some attention to that.

Posted: **Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:51 pm**

thanks bun

Posted: **Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:29 pm**

Bun-Bun wrote:That is an interesting observation I've never noticed before...

It would make sense in a weird way since Repair is just the inverse of Ram as far as damage...

I'll try to pay some attention to that.

This is something we have to do in faction. If Steve pays attention to his missions or any one of us who has repair mechs, there for myself, than maybe we can figure it out. Bun and I were trying to work on the connection of stun, ram, and strength before he switched.

One thing I do wonder about. Would it be possible to figure out if someone had armor based on amount of damage they took? Here is one of S.o.L. and my famous team ups against W N. Poor W N gar mo options in it. The thing I want to pay attention to is S. O.L. character is pure brawler but didn't die the minimum damage for his strength against W N endurance. I have my predator in there ramming.

https://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwa ... n_id=96744

Posted: **Thu Oct 11, 2018 11:49 pm**

Here is another mission where I scratch my head. I have a one shot kill at the start of the mission. There is no endurance on my target but should have decent armor with the strength and rank stat. My only thought is the character was already injured.

Posted: **Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:10 am**

sumowrestler wrote:Here is another mission where I scratch my head. I have a one shot kill at the start of the mission. There is no endurance on my target but should have decent armor with the strength and rank stat. My only thought is the character was already injured.

I explained that one here ;)^

As for just observing regular missions: There are so many variables going on in any particular mission that if you wanted to work out specific formulas you'd never get anywhere (unless you are a genius like Tammuz, may His Maths be upon us, and I most certainly am not).

Gleaning info from missions is possible for certain things (weapon recharge for example) and once you have formulas you can use them to pull other info but to work out those formulas themselves you (I anyways) need rather controlled conditions, hence the TAG arena fights.

To your question about Armor: Safe assumption is always that if they have Strength you can pretty much guarantee they have some kind of Armor.
If you're looking to try and figure out what armor they have and/or how much of it they have it will be impossible without the various Armor Coefficients (kinda stalled out in that department) and even then you would have to equip one of the weapons that has a single damage output to have half a chance of solving it on the fly.

Posted: **Fri Oct 12, 2018 1:05 pm**

Did we ever look into stun possibility in melee/brawler style fighting? The same mission made me wonder about it since the Con didn't get a chance to do anything even after the punch.

Posted: **Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:53 am**

sumowrestler wrote:Did we ever look into stun possibility in melee/brawler style fighting? The same mission made me wonder about it since the Con didn't get a chance to do anything even after the punch.

I missed this post somewhere along the line... I don't believe any research has ever been done on that but I'm fairly confident stun is a tactic only thing. Could be wrong.

Updated the info up top with the 13 upgrade weapons.
No big surprises there. AR's are very consistent & Gat's aren't far off.

PBC's though... ugh. That was a painful testing. (and the next 2 weapons I'll be testing don't look much better :-(

)

Posted: **Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:42 am**

which weapons?

Posted: **Fri Oct 19, 2018 9:59 am**

Proton-Pack Rifle & Rocket Propelled Mortar Shells

Posted: **Fri Oct 19, 2018 8:28 pm**

Bun-Bun wrote:Proton-Pack Rifle & Rocket Propelled Mortar Shells

sounds fun
https://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwa ... na_id=2544
https://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwa ... na_id=2545

Posted: **Sat Oct 20, 2018 4:42 am**

While that's only 2 battle reports (How many do you perform before sifting through the data?) the Rocket Propelled Mortar seems to show an early edge over the Proton Pack.

Posted: **Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:10 am**

ThunderThruster wrote:While that's only 2 battle reports (How many do you perform before sifting through the data?) the Rocket Propelled Mortar seems to show an early edge over the Proton Pack.

Unless it becomes very obvious right away (like a weapon that only has a single output or a range of only 5 points) I go for at least 30 data points. Of course with these that can have avery large range it takes a bit longer.
For the Particle Beam Cannon we had to get over 130 data points.

The RPMS are a 17 upgrade weapon while the PPR is only a 14. I expect their median values to be 34 and 28 respectively but we shall see.

Posted: **Sat Oct 20, 2018 7:33 am**

Hopefully these 2 won't take you 130 trials.

Posted: **Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:58 am**

steve2275 wrote:
Bun-Bun wrote:Proton-Pack Rifle & Rocket Propelled Mortar Shells

sounds fun
https://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwa ... na_id=2544
https://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwa ... na_id=2545

https://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwa ... na_id=2547
https://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwa ... na_id=2548
https://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwa ... na_id=2549

Posted: **Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:32 pm**

I have a question and this seems like the best place. I thought Courage determined how often you went. Roc has Courage of 2 and Meh has a 0 but Meh is going something like twice as often. Now the Speed comparison is 0 to 4 but...

https://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwa ... _id=113555

Posted: **Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:56 pm**

The functionality of courage is a leap of faith.
We all believe it increases the rate of actions because we've been told once upon a time that it does.
Often the evidence argues against it (like in the mission you cited)
There's just to many unknowns to figure out the exact formula on our own. We'll probably never know how it all works since Ryan has taken over as programmer & isn't likely to leak info in a disgruntled rage.

Posted: **Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:03 pm**

Str: increases damage with fists/weapons/ram and amount of armor you can wear
Int: useless unless you have Repair
Speed: Increases to hit, dodge, Avoid and action frequency
End: damage resistance, helps repairs done to you
Rank: only increases types of armor which may or may not be worth it
Courage: Probably increases action frequency
Firepower: increases weapon types and ups Strafe
Skill: increases weapon types

Is that about what the current state is?

Posted: **Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:07 pm**

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