The Energon Pub

Rules are as follows.
ST Factions are TNG Era
No Genesis Device
No Deus Ex Machina's
TFs cannot be Assimilated
No Unicron (comics Version)
No Marvel Comics version characters
No Swarm
No Jhiaxus
TFs are at TF:TM Level Lethality
Matrix will not function in this scenario
No transphase torpedoes (Endgame Voyager)
No Hyperablative armor (Endgame Voyager)
The Borg are as they were seen in TNG not VOY (so they wont die under a modicum of torpedo hits)
No godlike powers involved.

One word. Squish.

Transformers would win.

Are you including Jhiaxus's Decepticon group or not?

Does the Trek universe have access to tech from Star Trek Armada games?

Still transformers. If you think about it as a race they are millions of years old, in comparison to the other groups in which they are barely a few thousand (Not sure about the Borg however, for all we know they're a few million years old themselves).

Better tech, more durable individually, comparatively larger ships (hell a single large transformer can take on a Federation warship), they cannot be assimilated. They've got it all going for them.

And lets add another thing: The Romulans, Klingons, Federation would be in such a state of distrust that effective co-ordination would be at best difficult, at worst impossible. That's without even factoring the borg into the equation. If it was Voyager era, then yes, they would potentially be able to align together. The Kingons and Romulans would be amiable with the Feds, wheras the Borg, having been defeated by the Feds in the past would reconise that it would be strategicly feasible to align with them to defeat the threat of the transformers. Alas, in TNG era, they would be a disorganised rabble.

On the opposite side, Megatron and Optimus Prime are more than willing to put aside their differences to face an external threat. As demonstrated twice. And if they don't, then there are individuals in both factions who are more than willing to cut deals behind their backs.

HardHead wrote:If it was Voyager era, then yes, they would potentially be able to align together.

There is no Voyager Era... The TNG Era Stretches from... you guessed it, TNG to Nemesis.

Devastron, if they were only in a marvel comic... No.

Optimus N1701, yes they have armada level tech.

If its just Cybertron and the G1s, then the TFs are toast. Enormously outnumbered and outgunned. A fleet shows up around Cybertron, probably decloaking around it, and fires volley after volley down on to the planet. The TFs never even get the chance to shoot back.

For being alive for millions of years, TFs have very poor tech. They have few interplanetary vessels, no fission or fusion reactors, no anti-matter reactors, no nuclear weapons. It would be like if in a million years from now the most powerful human weapon was a bazooka and we were still driving around in cars powered by internal combustion

Either way, it's a battle worth watching.

Devastron wrote:If its just Cybertron and the G1s, then the TFs are toast. Enormously outnumbered and outgunned. A fleet shows up around Cybertron, probably decloaking around it, and fires volley after volley down on to the planet. The TFs never even get the chance to shoot back.

For being alive for millions of years, TFs have very poor tech. They have few interplanetary vessels, no fission or fusion reactors, no anti-matter reactors, no nuclear weapons. It would be like if in a million years from now the most powerful human weapon was a bazooka and we were still driving around in cars powered by internal combustion

Um...The Romulans and Cardasians tried this little trick against the dominion, they sent a fleet to the Founders homeworld, decloaked and fired....and lost the entire fleet they sent.

They have all the interplanetary vessels they need. And they have a fleet of ships...or at least the Autobots do as seen in Dark Awakening. Transformers themselves are capable of interstellar travel and they have warp gates and space bridges too. There's little need for the amount of interstellar transports that trek has.


TF ships have superior firepower and can take far more punishment than trek ships. Referencing the Pilot :MTMTE, the Ark and Nemesis got pelted by asteroids and took no visible damage...then the Ark blasted it's way through the field in seconds vaporizing multiple asteroids in it's way. Trek has never shown that level of firepower. Hell a borg sphere just caused a bunch of fireballs and grenade level explosions...and that's from a race that's supposed to have powerful weapons.

So, saying that TF's don't use nuclear reactions or matter/antimatter reactions is silly when TF weapons are more powerful anyway. BTW: Megatron uses a fusion cannon...it's nuclear. (and a Google search showed that Metroplex uses antimatter weapons)


The fun thing is...even though this is only in g1 and g2 continuity, which makes no sence with no marvel (since g2 was exclusivly a marvel comic and the cartoon was just a rehashed g1). There's the bw&bm story lines and the jap-g1 series. It's different continuity...but TF's get all that fun stuff. So TF's still get planet destroying weapons, computer viruses that can wipe out entire cyborg or robot populations. Ships that can fly through time and soldiers that can be blown to pieces multiple times and get rebuilt as good as new are common place in transformers.

Transformers are going to win, hands down.

AutobotGeneral wrote:

HardHead wrote:If it was Voyager era, then yes, they would potentially be able to align together.

There is no Voyager Era... The TNG Era Stretches from... you guessed it, TNG to Nemesis.

Devastron, if they were only in a marvel comic... No.

Optimus N1701, yes they have armada level tech.

Then specify. You put me under the impression you were assuming we were using the factions as they were in the TNG series, as apposed to the 'Voyager' era, or DS9 era (Dominion war etc)

HardHead wrote:

AutobotGeneral wrote:

HardHead wrote:If it was Voyager era, then yes, they would potentially be able to align together.

There is no Voyager Era... The TNG Era Stretches from... you guessed it, TNG to Nemesis.

Devastron, if they were only in a marvel comic... No.

Optimus N1701, yes they have armada level tech.

Then specify. You put me under the impression you were assuming we were using the factions as they were in the TNG series, as apposed to the 'Voyager' era, or DS9 era (Dominion war etc)

He's picking and choosing. The federation is TNG era....all the episods from Encounter at Farpoint to ST10: Nemesis.

He just wants to exclude the Voyager sucktitude with the overpowered Voyager, the sluggish warp drive, and the patheticly, powered borg.

I can't say I blame him....I ignore that fact that it'd take Voyager 70 years to cross the galaxy, because it's silly that'd it take a Federation ship a decade to cross the entirel federation....which is another way of saying that warp speeds were made way too slow for that one series.

Tfs, God Sunstreaker has said lots of facts

Ok, since Armada tech is in play, then the Federation has access to its temporal research facilities, meaning that they could activate one or more temporal stasis fields around Cybertron and then lay waste to the planet from space. Or they can equip their and their allies' ships with corbomite reflectors, which can reflect projectile weaponry.

And just for anyone's info, the Trekkies have thousands of ships at their disposal. This was seen during the Dominion War when the Breen's energy dampening weapon made it so only the Klingon fleet was left effective since they were immune to it. and the Klingons had at least 1500 ships at that point.

And with reference to God Sunstreakers comment about the Cardassian/Romulan sneak attack, it failed because a founder was posing as a Romulan officer and tipped off the Dominion forces to the plot, resulting in an ambush

OptimusN1701 wrote:Ok, since Armada tech is in play, then the Federation has access to its temporal research facilities, meaning that they could activate one or more temporal stasis fields around Cybertron and then lay waste to the planet from space. Or they can equip their and their allies' ships with corbomite reflectors, which can reflect projectile weaponry.

And just for anyone's info, the Trekkies have thousands of ships at their disposal. This was seen during the Dominion War when the Breen's energy dampening weapon made it so only the Klingon fleet was left effective since they were immune to it. and the Klingons had at least 1500 ships at that point.

And with reference to God Sunstreakers comment about the Cardassian/Romulan sneak attack, it failed because a founder was posing as a Romulan officer and tipped off the Dominion forces to the plot, resulting in an ambush

Right....

The trek dudes and orbital bombardment just don't work out

The Romulan/Cardasian attack failed because they did zero damage to the planet surface. Seriously, there was no damage shown. Then the dominion obliterated the fleet. It was pathetic.

Temporal Reserch facility what now? Retarded game machanics no one's heard of...nice autobot gen. Temporal stasis fields? And the Transformers are just going to let those get activated? For fun, right. Like Fortmax and Tryticon are just going to sit out in space and let the Feddies do that. And that's going to work on every TF planet out there? Fine, Megatron just goes back in time and destroys humanity back in the day. And this time Dinobot and Primal help. And that's totally canon. And if you want a G1 bot to do it there's always Ravage.

This is silly, the tf's could build a space bridge on any trek planet and invade from that point (it's not like trek planets (sans the dominion) use planetary shields)....or they could fling the planet into the next galaxy or just destroy it. What, other fun stuff can they do. Let's see, Deszaras uses his space station/ship to destroy planets in one shot. The Ark, Nemesis, Galy's ship, and the Autobot Flag can go destroy entire fleets on their own. Galvatron can just shoot smaller planets and blow them up. Victory Saber can fly through the hulls of enemy ships until they stop working. Optimus can single handedly take on thousands of klingon warriors...why? because they like to fight in melee range...so optimus just shoots them. Megs gets to implant a computer virus into the borg to destroy it...that'll be easy. And the most important one of all, Unicron (cartoon version) eats Romulus, then spits it out at Remus.

Trek sucks...they loose.

TF's win

Firstly, the Cardassian/Romulan assault showed no damage to the surface because they were infiltrated by a shapeshifter which tipped off the Dominion, so there was nothing on the planet to show damage. But season6/7 of DS9 (which takes place in TNG era as the war is mentioned in Insurrection and First Contact in a season 5 ep of DS9) shows that the Klingons, Romulans and Federation can work together to fight the greater evil. If we are talking TNG Borg, then they will prove to be a match for tf ships (they would be able to assimalate the tf's as it's not just organics they assimilate, they go after the technological just as effectively). Yes, they don't adapt to projectile weapons like (photon) torpedoes, but their ships can self heal. Quickly. (TNG ep "Q-Who") They adapt their weapons to penetrate shields (same ep) and the cubes are a few kilometers across. Couple that with the fact that they could use a tractor beam to scoop the entire tf outposts off the planet surface and leave them floating in space, useless (see TNG ep "Best of Both Worlds").
Klingons do not always fight with melee weapons. They prefer to, but they will just as easily pull out a disruptor or a really big gun and shoot. If the Trek species pulled together all of their ships, they could decimate the few tf planets.

Insurgent wrote:Firstly, the Cardassian/Romulan assault showed no damage to the surface because they were infiltrated by a shapeshifter which tipped off the Dominion, so there was nothing on the planet to show damage. But season6/7 of DS9 (which takes place in TNG era as the war is mentioned in Insurrection and First Contact in a season 5 ep of DS9) shows that the Klingons, Romulans and Federation can work together to fight the greater evil. If we are talking TNG Borg, then they will prove to be a match for tf ships (they would be able to assimalate the tf's as it's not just organics they assimilate, they go after the technological just as effectively). Yes, they don't adapt to projectile weapons like (photon) torpedoes, but their ships can self heal. Quickly. (TNG ep "Q-Who") They adapt their weapons to penetrate shields (same ep) and the cubes are a few kilometers across. Couple that with the fact that they could use a tractor beam to scoop the entire tf outposts off the planet surface and leave them floating in space, useless (see TNG ep "Best of Both Worlds").
Klingons do not always fight with melee weapons. They prefer to, but they will just as easily pull out a disruptor or a really big gun and shoot. If the Trek species pulled together all of their ships, they could decimate the few tf planets.

You're funny.

The card/rom insistent can't be used to show that a bombardment is useful because there was no damage...so it doesn't matter how or why nothing was shown. The point is, nothing was shown

Yeah...they can't work together...but the borg can't work the the other groups. Auto Gen specifically said the borg were the early TNG borg and not the voyager borg. So there is conflict within the allies. Also...you haven't said how the feds and friends are any match for the tf ships and forces.

The borg ships can only self heal if they have time to heal. TF ships won't give them the time. And tf ship guns are strong enough that the borg won't be able to adapt to them.

The borg also can't assimilate robot life...they were never show to, and they failed to assimilate Data. So they can't do it.

The borg never scooped up any cities or settlements with tractor beams. That one reference you're thinking of was a hole in the ground made by borg weapons. Unfortunately we don't know how long it took for the borg ship to do that. On the other hand we have an accurate account of how fast an Autobot ship can vaporize rock that size, and it's pretty close to instantaneous.

Klingons will not "just as easily" pull out a gun and shoot their enemy. When they attacked DS9 they were all about melee, so much so that a pregnant Kira beat the crap out of one. It was sad.

I still don't see where you can come up with your conclusion that by pulling all the trek fleets together that trek will decimate tf planets.

The only planet killers trek has are out...it's one shot tech that was lost after it was used. The ships have to get in striking distance of Cybertron or one of the colonies, which they can't. Cybertron is mobile so they don't know where it is...and the tf ships are too strong.

Example, the Ark is bigger than a borg cube and it can cut one in half in a few seconds of sustained laser fire. It would take hours for a trek ship to do any significant damage to the Ark. And unfortunately for trek ships the Ark is going to shoot back destroying whatever ship it hits in a second or two. And the borg are too stupid to send multiple ships against a superior foe, and the tf's can definitely handle one cube at a time.

Not that the tf's care....there are no trek races anymore. Megaron killed them.....cause he went back in time. Then Unicron ate all the planets for good measure.

Transformers are just too insanely powerful.

God Sunstreaker wrote:

Insurgent wrote: Firstly, the Cardassian/Romulan assault showed no damage to the surface because they were infiltrated by a shapeshifter which tipped off the Dominion, so there was nothing on the planet to show damage. But season6/7 of DS9 (which takes place in TNG era as the war is mentioned in Insurrection and First Contact in a season 5 ep of DS9) shows that the Klingons, Romulans and Federation can work together to fight the greater evil. If we are talking TNG Borg, then they will prove to be a match for tf ships (they would be able to assimalate the tf's as it's not just organics they assimilate, they go after the technological just as effectively). Yes, they don't adapt to projectile weapons like (photon) torpedoes, but their ships can self heal. Quickly. (TNG ep "Q-Who") They adapt their weapons to penetrate shields (same ep) and the cubes are a few kilometers across. Couple that with the fact that they could use a tractor beam to scoop the entire tf outposts off the planet surface and leave them floating in space, useless (see TNG ep "Best of Both Worlds").
Klingons do not always fight with melee weapons. They prefer to, but they will just as easily pull out a disruptor or a really big gun and shoot. If the Trek species pulled together all of their ships, they could decimate the few tf planets.

You're funny.

The card/rom insistent can't be used to show that a bombardment is useful because there was no damage...so it doesn't matter how or why nothing was shown. The point is, nothing was shown

Yeah...they can't work together...but the borg can't work the the other groups. Auto Gen specifically said the borg were the early TNG borg and not the voyager borg. So there is conflict within the allies. Also...you haven't said how the feds and friends are any match for the tf ships and forces.

The borg ships can only self heal if they have time to heal. TF ships won't give them the time. And tf ship guns are strong enough that the borg won't be able to adapt to them.

The borg also can't assimilate robot life...they were never show to, and they failed to assimilate Data. So they can't do it.

The borg never scooped up any cities or settlements with tractor beams. That one reference you're thinking of was a hole in the ground made by borg weapons. Unfortunately we don't know how long it took for the borg ship to do that. On the other hand we have an accurate account of how fast an Autobot ship can vaporize rock that size, and it's pretty close to instantaneous.

Klingons will not "just as easily" pull out a gun and shoot their enemy. When they attacked DS9 they were all about melee, so much so that a pregnant Kira beat the crap out of one. It was sad.

I still don't see where you can come up with your conclusion that by pulling all the trek fleets together that trek will decimate tf planets.

The only planet killers trek has are out...it's one shot tech that was lost after it was used. The ships have to get in striking distance of Cybertron or one of the colonies, which they can't. Cybertron is mobile so they don't know where it is...and the tf ships are too strong.

Example, the Ark is bigger than a borg cube and it can cut one in half in a few seconds of sustained laser fire. It would take hours for a trek ship to do any significant damage to the Ark. And unfortunately for trek ships the Ark is going to shoot back destroying whatever ship it hits in a second or two. And the borg are too stupid to send multiple ships against a superior foe, and the tf's can definitely handle one cube at a time.

Not that the tf's care....there are no trek races anymore. Megaron killed them.....cause he went back in time. Then Unicron ate all the planets for good measure.

Transformers are just too insanely powerful.

And you clearly haven't seen Star Trek, or you don't pay attention. Kira isn't pregnant at that time, the Klingons do fire weapons (maybe not in that instance, but they have done on too many times to count) and as for the crator:

Watch the episode "The Best of Both Worlds" And pay attention. They scan the crator and say there is residual something or other from a tractor beam, meaning they scooped up the entire colony in one go. And it was quick enough to ensure no colonists escape. The Ark is the same size (more or less) than a Galaxy Class ship (like the Enterprise D) and their weapons are not insanely powerful. The Borg can assimalate robotic life, they simply chose not to in the case of Data because the queen wanted an equal. The episode of Enterprise when the Borg appeared (And they were from First Contact meaning they are TNG era Borg and thus, applicable here) assimilated parts of the ship. Note the Borg assimilate species AND THEIR TECHNOLOGY. Their ships are also able to self heal on the fly. I point you to the episode I referenced earlier (Q Who) when the Enterprise fires torpedoes at the cube and it heals itself while flying after them.

And I never said planet killing scale. I meant orbital bombardments that were shown to be effective during the Dominian War. Cybertron is not mobile, and even if it was, Star Trek has sensors that cover sectors of space that span lightyears, so they could easily track it down.

Star Trek also has shields that protect them from weapons fire. I know they can be worn down, but no tf ship has shields. Also, the Ark fired through an asteroid filed, then ran out of cannon power. Star Trek ships can keep firing constantly. Which means the Ark is going to be useless in a fight. They can destroy maybe 3 ships. Then they run out of power while the rest of the armarda wipes them out. tfs also dont have faster than light travel.

TF's would probably win ground battles, but space battles would go to the Trek guys.

One last thing. It was posted at the start: NO UNICRON!!

So maybe alot of weaker transformers would take a damage or stasis lock,perhaps total incineraction, but the whole race of Transformes, Including Primus from Cybertron, then G1's G2's and the rest, thats like if China decided to invade States and mobilize its multi million people army, we wouldnt be able to see the horrizon, and there would be plenty of men still coming.Tf's win.

Insurgent wrote:

God Sunstreaker wrote:

Insurgent wrote: Firstly, the Cardassian/Romulan assault showed no damage to the surface because they were infiltrated by a shapeshifter which tipped off the Dominion, so there was nothing on the planet to show damage. But season6/7 of DS9 (which takes place in TNG era as the war is mentioned in Insurrection and First Contact in a season 5 ep of DS9) shows that the Klingons, Romulans and Federation can work together to fight the greater evil. If we are talking TNG Borg, then they will prove to be a match for tf ships (they would be able to assimalate the tf's as it's not just organics they assimilate, they go after the technological just as effectively). Yes, they don't adapt to projectile weapons like (photon) torpedoes, but their ships can self heal. Quickly. (TNG ep "Q-Who") They adapt their weapons to penetrate shields (same ep) and the cubes are a few kilometers across. Couple that with the fact that they could use a tractor beam to scoop the entire tf outposts off the planet surface and leave them floating in space, useless (see TNG ep "Best of Both Worlds").
Klingons do not always fight with melee weapons. They prefer to, but they will just as easily pull out a disruptor or a really big gun and shoot. If the Trek species pulled together all of their ships, they could decimate the few tf planets.

You're funny.

The card/rom insistent can't be used to show that a bombardment is useful because there was no damage...so it doesn't matter how or why nothing was shown. The point is, nothing was shown

Yeah...they can't work together...but the borg can't work the the other groups. Auto Gen specifically said the borg were the early TNG borg and not the voyager borg. So there is conflict within the allies. Also...you haven't said how the feds and friends are any match for the tf ships and forces.

The borg ships can only self heal if they have time to heal. TF ships won't give them the time. And tf ship guns are strong enough that the borg won't be able to adapt to them.

The borg also can't assimilate robot life...they were never show to, and they failed to assimilate Data. So they can't do it.

The borg never scooped up any cities or settlements with tractor beams. That one reference you're thinking of was a hole in the ground made by borg weapons. Unfortunately we don't know how long it took for the borg ship to do that. On the other hand we have an accurate account of how fast an Autobot ship can vaporize rock that size, and it's pretty close to instantaneous.

Klingons will not "just as easily" pull out a gun and shoot their enemy. When they attacked DS9 they were all about melee, so much so that a pregnant Kira beat the crap out of one. It was sad.

I still don't see where you can come up with your conclusion that by pulling all the trek fleets together that trek will decimate tf planets.

The only planet killers trek has are out...it's one shot tech that was lost after it was used. The ships have to get in striking distance of Cybertron or one of the colonies, which they can't. Cybertron is mobile so they don't know where it is...and the tf ships are too strong.

Example, the Ark is bigger than a borg cube and it can cut one in half in a few seconds of sustained laser fire. It would take hours for a trek ship to do any significant damage to the Ark. And unfortunately for trek ships the Ark is going to shoot back destroying whatever ship it hits in a second or two. And the borg are too stupid to send multiple ships against a superior foe, and the tf's can definitely handle one cube at a time.

Not that the tf's care....there are no trek races anymore. Megaron killed them.....cause he went back in time. Then Unicron ate all the planets for good measure.

Transformers are just too insanely powerful.

And you clearly haven't seen Star Trek, or you don't pay attention. Kira isn't pregnant at that time, the Klingons do fire weapons (maybe not in that instance, but they have done on too many times to count) and as for the crator:

Watch the episode "The Best of Both Worlds" And pay attention. They scan the crator and say there is residual something or other from a tractor beam, meaning they scooped up the entire colony in one go. And it was quick enough to ensure no colonists escape. The Ark is the same size (more or less) than a Galaxy Class ship (like the Enterprise D) and their weapons are not insanely powerful. The Borg can assimalate robotic life, they simply chose not to in the case of Data because the queen wanted an equal. The episode of Enterprise when the Borg appeared (And they were from First Contact meaning they are TNG era Borg and thus, applicable here) assimilated parts of the ship. Note the Borg assimilate species AND THEIR TECHNOLOGY. Their ships are also able to self heal on the fly. I point you to the episode I referenced earlier (Q Who) when the Enterprise fires torpedoes at the cube and it heals itself while flying after them.

And I never said planet killing scale. I meant orbital bombardments that were shown to be effective during the Dominian War. Cybertron is not mobile, and even if it was, Star Trek has sensors that cover sectors of space that span lightyears, so they could easily track it down.

Star Trek also has shields that protect them from weapons fire. I know they can be worn down, but no tf ship has shields. Also, the Ark fired through an asteroid filed, then ran out of cannon power. Star Trek ships can keep firing constantly. Which means the Ark is going to be useless in a fight. They can destroy maybe 3 ships. Then they run out of power while the rest of the armarda wipes them out. tfs also dont have faster than light travel.

TF's would probably win ground battles, but space battles would go to the Trek guys.

One last thing. It was posted at the start: NO UNICRON!!

Sad...

Kira wasn't pregnant...but the actress was, so all her punches were like slaps....and the klingons went down...because they were wimps. Sorry, I should have clarified.

Post a quote on that borg thing...because your idea of how that happened is silly. They figured out there was a tractor beam involved and you assume that that borg scooped the colony up. How and why did you come up with that conclusion. That's just nuts, there's no reason for that. You made that up. If thay wanted the colonists they'd use transporters....there's no...wow. That's just crazy talk.

The Ark and the Nemesis are over 4 km long. It was published a few years back in the comics. That means they're a little larger that a 650+ m long galaxy class

Actually tf weapons are crazy powerful.



That's the ark vaporizing rock as fast as it takes the ship to fly through the field. Trek ships can't do this.

The borg couldn't assimilate data, she tried and failed. We know this because she never got direct access to the ship. Data still had his free will, unlike Picard. And the queen failed in her mission. You're just making things up know.

The borg build around and over the Ent-E...they didn't make it into a borg cube. They couldn't even crack the computer to take control of it. So they failed at controlling the ship, they failed at assimilated data, so they can't assimilate a robot with a computer brain. The borg take technology, reverse engineer it and use it, they make life forms into drones. When they come across a living machine, they don't know what to do.

I said the borg ship can repair itself...I agreed with you. I also said it won't matter because the bots guns are too powerful to be adapted to, and they won't stop shooting until the borg ship is not functioning.

The one orbital bombardment mention was ineffective....so show one that was.

Cybertron was mobile. It was transported using the space bridge and it was drifting ever since (from Ultimate doom). Space is pretty huge dude....starfleet isn't just going to find Cybertron using their sensors. Come on man, the tf's have the advantage here...the already know where Earth is.

Wow, your just... Ok trek ships have shields...good, we can agree. Their shields are sort of like weird. The weapons that hit them are constantly going through the shields....and the shields also don't last very long. Treks weapons are, at the strongest, about as powerful as a low yield nuke. That isn't going to do much to the side of a mountain for instance....which the Ark rammed into and was still intact. So the tf ships can survive trek weapons quite easily. The ark did have shields...shown in Beast Wars (agenda part 3). And since trek weapons can’t do much to tf ships…yet they can do damage to trek shields then trek shields have to be weaker than tf ship defenses. So tf ships can take down trek defenses easily.

The ark ran out of power because the tf's had no power. A fully fueled ship will be just fine.

TF ships have to have faster than light speeds, otherwise it would take years to go between planets.

There's no comic Unicron, who is a god and can't be beat. Cartoon Unicron is just fine.

You still didn't address most of the random points I typed up. I don't think you're really trying.

God Sunstreaker wrote:You still didn't address most of the random points I typed up. I don't think you're really trying.

NOT TRYING?! Your just blatantly refusing any and all facts I throw at you. I responded to all of your comments with actual proof and references to the episodes. You have responded with nothing but pure blinded belief that tfs are the all powerful rulers of the universe. You clearly aren't a fan of Star Trek as you don't know squat about the things I'm talking about.

You want total apocalyptic armageddon? Fine. Star Trek can provide. Watch the movie Generations. 1 Trilithium torpedo can destroy a star, sending out a shockwave that destroys the entire system. Planets, ships, transformers, EVERYTHING!!
Thats right. 1 puny torpedo can do all that. Not even the Matrix has that kind of firepower!
And it travels at a speed that you need to travel faster than light to escape, something tf ships have never shown to have. Not even toon Unicron could survive that level of destruction. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!

Now, I need to have a drink and calm down.

Ok...looks like you two have really been going at it.

Well, first things first: Since the stipulations say the TFs are at movie lethality, looks like the Maximals and Predacons are completely out of the picture, as well as the Jap spin off cartoons.

Secondly, We, the Trekkies, cant assimilate the Tfs with the Borg, so that's out.

That said, in the TNG episode "The Neutral Zone," the Federation and Romulan bases were said to be "scooped up right out the ground." This was intended by the series' writers to be a massive allusion to the Borg and their awesome power who would appear in the second season.

As described in the episode "The Pegasus" the Federation developed a phase cloaking device in violation of the treaty of Algeron. This can enable a ship to both cloak and pass through solid matter. With this cloaking device installed on small scout ships ladden with quantum torpedoes or trilithium, the Klingons could use these to stage suicide attacks on Transformer ships and planets by decloaking and materializing inside of them and triggering the weapons.
now the Klingons would be the only ones to do this because the Feddies and Romulans frown upon the act of suicide, and they probably wouldnt give such tech the Borg

Oh, and damn you Insurgent for bringing up the trilithium probes before I could

in all fairness, i see no way of a trek victory, as if you include every g1&g2 tfs, all they have to do is get organised, ie shockwave, prowl & computron - tacticians

heavy hitters - gestalts, dinobots, city formers, wreckers, skylinx, multiple primes mega/galvatrons, sixshot, ultra magnus.

competent warriors.

communications - soundwave & blaster + tapes

massive amount of seekers as evident from the movie.

and i just spotted 1 big flaw....as far as im aware, sunstorm didnt appear in the marvel comics, so i would therefore assume he is fair game. (from wikipedia - The character who would be Sunstorm appeared in the very first episode of the Transformers animated series, as a gold-and-white Decepticon jet, one of many generic troop characters used for crowd-building scenes )

plus im also going to assume DW comic version characters.

sorry but the attacking fleet goes down. plus, who needs nukes and stuff, when tf weapons do much cooler stuff

ie, The stress fracture cannon he carries shoots a beam that locates and then overloads the natural fracture lines in any object it hits. The result can be anything from cracking open a peanut shell to causing a small earthquake.

and, Fires particle beam cannon. Can link up interdimensionally to a black hole and draw anti-matter from it for use as a weapon

to name but a few.

OptimusN1701 wrote:Ok...looks like you two have really been going at it.

Well, first things first: Since the stipulations say the TFs are at movie lethality, looks like the Maximals and Predacons are completely out of the picture, as well as the Jap spin off cartoons.

Secondly, We, the Trekkies, cant assimilate the Tfs with the Borg, so that's out.

That said, in the TNG episode "The Neutral Zone," the Federation and Romulan bases were said to be "scooped up right out the ground." This was intended by the series' writers to be a massive allusion to the Borg and their awesome power who would appear in the second season.

As described in the episode "The Pegasus" the Federation developed a phase cloaking device in violation of the treaty of Algeron. This can enable a ship to both cloak and pass through solid matter. With this cloaking device installed on small scout ships ladden with quantum torpedoes or trilithium, the Klingons could use these to stage suicide attacks on Transformer ships and planets by decloaking and materializing inside of them and triggering the weapons.
now the Klingons would be the only ones to do this because the Feddies and Romulans frown upon the act of suicide, and they probably wouldnt give such tech the Borg

Oh, and damn you Insurgent for bringing up the trilithium probes before I could

Thank you. I knew there was an episode where they said colonies had been scooped up. And I'm gonna go completely off the deep end here.

The Borg assimilate the cloaking technology the Scimitar uses in Nemesis (Completely undetectable and can fire while cloaked.) They load up a cube with trilithium torpedoes, cloak, and warp into every solar system with a transformer fleet/shipyard/colony/planet/outpost/single transformer trying to esacpe the war/etc. They fire a trilithium torpedo into the star and warp out. The tf's are caught completely unaware and by the time the they realise they are all about to die, they get vapourised by the shockwave. Or the Romulans could do it since they developed both technologies. Sure, there'll be alot less planets and stars in the galaxy, but the Trekkies would win.

Tequila brought up a decent point... I never said no DW or IDW versions of characters...

Oh and one final rule... No Trek One-Shots. The Trilithium Device (which died with Soran and Luursa/B'etor) is out. And the Genesis Device (which died with the destruction of the Genesis Database and the death of David Marcus) is out. However I will allow one trek bonus... All Good Things Ent-D Level Tech.

AutobotGeneral wrote:Oh and one final rule... No Trek One-Shots. The Trilithium Device (which died with Soran and Luursa/B'etor) is out. And the Genesis Device (which died with the destruction of the Genesis Database and the death of David Marcus) is out. However I will allow one trek bonus... All Good Things Ent-D Level Tech.

I can't work under these conditions!

Seriously though, if Trek isn't allowed any of it's high powered stuff, the tf's are gonna cream cracker them. Especially if toon Unicron is allowed in. Unless we are allowed to bring in one ally of Picards? Yes? Please say yes?