The Energon Pub

Superman, the nearly unbeatable hero vs Goku, another nearly unbeatable hero. They both can pretty much walk away from being nuked, both really really strong and fast. Who would win?

Shadowman wrote:Two days short of a year old.

OH THAT'S BUNS!! I even looked through the search and I couldn't find that.

Goku. How is this even a debate?

Megatron000 wrote:Goku. How is this even a debate?

It's already been debated, though after watching almost 250 episodes of the dragonball series as a whole, I have to agree.

Goku's got a massive speed disadvantage, depending on which version of SuperMan we're using anyways. If speed was equalized though...

Hard to say at that point. I know Pre-Crisis is a bit too much, but Post and New 52 (though I know next to nothing of this one) would make good matches assuming the speed was the same.

Cartoon Supes gets murdered though.

zenosaurus_x wrote:Goku's got a massive speed disadvantage

Instant Transmission is basically teleportation. though it does have a base speed. How fast can superman go anyway?

He also trained under 100X earth's normal gravity at one point, so speed isn't a problem.

Of course, that might not be saying much, since vegeta pushed around 450/500.

I think what it would eventually come down to is stamina/energy use.
Does Superman have an energy limit? To many eye lasers and he poops out? Because Goku has a limit, though he rarely exceeds it unless it's necessary.

BeastProwl wrote:I think what it would eventually come down to is stamina/energy use.
Does Superman have an energy limit? To many eye lasers and he poops out? Because Goku has a limit, though he rarely exceeds it unless it's necessary.

Yes and no. Superman gains energy by absorbing yellow sunlight, so even when he's really pushing himself, he doesn't begin to notice a drop in stamina until it's night time.

BeastProwl wrote:

zenosaurus_x wrote:Goku's got a massive speed disadvantage

Instant Transmission is basically teleportation. though it does have a base speed. How fast can superman go anyway?

Depends. His speed is largely inconsistent, but it ranges from lightspeed to millions of times it apparently. Even in the old movie he was fast enough to go back in time. Goku is around Mach 1,000 last I checked though with IT that changes things.

The problem with IT is it moves you towards someone because you have to lock onto their spirit. It's certainly useful (and Superman's not likely to try and blitz him before he can do it, because that's not how Superman is) it's just also potentially very dangerous.

He also trained under 100X earth's normal gravity at one point, so speed isn't a problem.

Of course, that might not be saying much, since vegeta pushed around 450/500.

I think what it would eventually come down to is stamina/energy use.
Does Superman have an energy limit? To many eye lasers and he poops out? Because Goku has a limit, though he rarely exceeds it unless it's necessary.

Unsure on this one, but what Shadowman said sounds about right. Saiyan strength is mainly in the ranged attacks though, they are pretty strong physically it just wasn't showcased as much to give us a good idea of where they're at.

zenosaurus_x wrote:(and Superman's not likely to try and blitz him before he can do it, because that's not how Superman is)

Hal Jordan once bragged to Batman that, with his ring, he was more than a match for Superman. Superman then immediately came out of nowhere and KO'd Hal in one shot, pretty much just to prove that he could.

It's a lesson many villains learn the hard way, never assume you know how Superman is.

Ah I see. Yeah, it's in Superman's favor then I think.

Shadowman wrote:It's a lesson many villains learn the hard way.

If there's one thing I cant stand about the DBZ universe, it's this.
Nobody learns. like, ever.
Example. Krillen can cut almost any enemy in half with his destructo disc/kienzom disk, whatever. Yet, when an enemy is taking 5 whole minutes to transform into a new form that will be 100 times more powerful than the last, they all just stand around, open mouth, gaping in awe, as it happens. Maybe even tell a little life story out of nothing but 20 minutes of flashbacks from earlier episodes. If its a bar none fist fight, with no chit chat in between, I think Goku can get things done, but if they start monologuing, the fight would take 45 episodes.

That's why I like the DBZ movies. Not so much talk, but alot of fast paced fist fighting, and kickass music to go with it.

So a DBZ Movie about Goku meeting Superman, and fighting him to see who is stronger would be pretty badass, considering how violent the movies can get.

I think that if there was anyone in the DBZ universe that could kill superman, it would be Broly.

They got lucky when they killed him, they nipped him in the bud, really. Left unchecked, and un-manipulated, his power would grow infinitely, until he would be the most powerful being in the universe, surpassing everyone.

Broly's ending was so irksome...they weren't able to land a single punch on Broly (except Vegeta and it did nothing), and yet gathering energy from already beat up people equals one hit death punch? What the heck.

Then they made it worse by making a TERRIBLE sequel. Ugh, waste of life on that one.

zenosaurus_x wrote:Broly's ending was so irksome...they weren't able to land a single punch on Broly (except Vegeta and it did nothing), and yet gathering energy from already beat up people equals one hit death punch? What the heck.

Then they made it worse by making a TERRIBLE sequel. Ugh, waste of life on that one.

I know. But Like I said, If he was left to gather his energy un disturbed, like in say, one of those alternate universes, that according to trunks, do exist, than he could become all powerful, enough so to destroy anything in the universe. He blew up a galaxy, and that's when he was weaker.

And the punch wasnt what killed him, rather the impact made his power unstable, and he started to destabilize, and he got hit by that comet, right? I havnt seen second coming, Im not at that point in the series yet were it would fit (I have a graph on were all the movies fit, and am only watching the ones that fit in canon farely well) So I dont know how he survived. I did see Bio Broly a long time ago though. I never watched it again, and I hope I'll never have to.

He blew up a galaxy, and that's when he was weaker.

Eh, it was never really shown how this happened. General concensus around other VS Battle focused forums seems to be he did it gradually (and when I watched it a couple years ago it seemed that way too, same with a few other people).

The ending to that movie was just stupid. They couldn't land a single hit, Goku gets the ability to channel energy, suddenly OHKO. They didn't even pass it off as "He punched him in the scar from when he was a baby!" just...super vaguely he exploded.

As for the sequel, well it was basically only made to pander to Broly's popularity. Broly exploded. There is no way he should've survived. It happened only for money.

I would personally recommend NOT watching the sequel. It's terrible and was rather pointless overall.

zenosaurus_x wrote:As for the sequel, well it was basically only made to pander to Broly's popularity. Broly exploded. There is no way he should've survived. It happened only for money.

You still think death applies in DBZ? It's a suggestion at best. Goku was vaporized by Cell, that didn't seem to slow him down. Frieza had a planet blow up in his face, and he came back with just a little help from cybernetic enhancements. Cell blew up twice, once by choice, and he's currently in hell, but otherwise perfectly fine.

zenosaurus_x wrote:

BeastProwl wrote:

zenosaurus_x wrote:Goku's got a massive speed disadvantage

Instant Transmission is basically teleportation. though it does have a base speed. How fast can superman go anyway?

Depends. His speed is largely inconsistent, but it ranges from lightspeed to millions of times it apparently. Even in the old movie he was fast enough to go back in time. Goku is around Mach 1,000 last I checked though with IT that changes things.

The problem with IT is it moves you towards someone because you have to lock onto their spirit. It's certainly useful (and Superman's not likely to try and blitz him before he can do it, because that's not how Superman is) it's just also potentially very dangerous.

He also trained under 100X earth's normal gravity at one point, so speed isn't a problem.

Of course, that might not be saying much, since vegeta pushed around 450/500.

I think what it would eventually come down to is stamina/energy use.
Does Superman have an energy limit? To many eye lasers and he poops out? Because Goku has a limit, though he rarely exceeds it unless it's necessary.

Unsure on this one, but what Shadowman said sounds about right. Saiyan strength is mainly in the ranged attacks though, they are pretty strong physically it just wasn't showcased as much to give us a good idea of where they're at.

Zenosaurus_x actually you actually mentioned a method for Superman to win. In 70s cartoons, Superman could move fast enough for time travel rather easily (Flash and Green Lantern could do it too). So, if Superman has too trouble with Goku in the present, he always go back in time for a do over! If somehow the Earth or Lois Lane was destroyed by Goku on accident, Superman may snap and go way out of character and attack Goku as a baby.

I also remember in the 60's and 70's, Superman had much more extreme powers, he was overpowered. He ex. could blow out a star like a candle, so this might be much more a battle than it is viewed currently.

Shadowman wrote:

zenosaurus_x wrote:As for the sequel, well it was basically only made to pander to Broly's popularity. Broly exploded. There is no way he should've survived. It happened only for money.

You still think death applies in DBZ? It's a suggestion at best. Goku was vaporized by Cell, that didn't seem to slow him down. Frieza had a planet blow up in his face, and he came back with just a little help from cybernetic enhancements. Cell blew up twice, once by choice, and he's currently in hell, but otherwise perfectly fine.

Wow, I actually pegged you as someone who never watched the series.
And hell no, death is a concept at best. Counting all the movies and official canon, frieza's come back, like 4, maybe 5 times?

d_sel1 wrote:Zenosaurus_x actually you actually mentioned a method for Superman to win. In 70s cartoons, Superman could move fast enough for time travel rather easily (Flash and Green Lantern could do it too). So, if Superman has too trouble with Goku in the present, he always go back in time for a do over! If somehow the Earth or Lois Lane was destroyed by Goku on accident, Superman may snap and go way out of character and attack Goku as a baby.

You really think he'd play dirty like that?
Oh, and if you travel back in time in the DBZ Universe, and kill someone, it only kills them in THAT universe, not your own, so time travel is a moot point.

BeastProwl wrote:Wow, I actually pegged you as someone who never watched the series.

Yeah, I was a huge fan way back when it was still on Toonami.

d_sel1 wrote:If somehow the Earth or Lois Lane was destroyed by Goku on accident, Superman may snap and go way out of character and attack Goku as a baby.

Oh, yeah, absolutely not. I know I said you shouldn't assume things about Superman but he is certainly not one to go back in time and attack a baby because his girlfriend was hurt by accident.

BeastProwl wrote:Oh, and if you travel back in time in the DBZ Universe, and kill someone, it only kills them in THAT universe, not your own, so time travel is a moot point.

Yeah, DBZ's time travel rules state you can't change the timeline, you just make a new one.

I thought this thread would've died seeming how it's a copy. But I'd go with Goku for the winner. Superman has weaknesses. Kryptonite, red sunlight and even magic. Goku can throw explosions and is able to use his powers on his home planet. But the powers aren't limited just to Saiyans though. And Broly would wreck Superman, it's why I didn't throw him in the fight.

Ok, so were all in agreement here? Goku FTW?

BeastProwl wrote:Ok, so were all in agreement here? Goku FTW?

I'm not, but then I've got a neutrality thing going on here. Silver Age Superman, though, has done things that make Goku look like a chump. While we're at it, Superboy Prime once punched reality itself. Not the same as Superman, I know, but it's worth noting.

Shadowman wrote:

BeastProwl wrote:Wow, I actually pegged you as someone who never watched the series.

Yeah, I was a huge fan way back when it was still on Toonami.

d_sel1 wrote:If somehow the Earth or Lois Lane was destroyed by Goku on accident, Superman may snap and go way out of character and attack Goku as a baby.

Oh, yeah, absolutely not. I know I said you shouldn't assume things about Superman but he is certainly not one to go back in time and attack a baby because his girlfriend was hurt by accident.

BeastProwl wrote:Oh, and if you travel back in time in the DBZ Universe, and kill someone, it only kills them in THAT universe, not your own, so time travel is a moot point.

Yeah, DBZ's time travel rules state you can't change the timeline, you just make a new one.

I will admit that might be beating a dead horse on this one, so humor me guys.

1. Superman is not the type to go back in time to attack a baby, but in Justice League Unlimited, he had Doomsday (someone else that he could not beat) banished to form of phantom universe (I can't remember the exact term). So, there is a precedent for Superman (very out of character) to throw a baby Goku into an alternative dimension where he can do no harm.
2. It is out of character for Superman to go nuts in Lois was hurt. I said that Lois or Earth was destroyed, he may snap. When I say destroyed, I mean something closer to say... vaporized, disintegrated, incinerated, etc than just hurt or wounded. Besides, Goku can easily destroy a planet, heck in DBZ if you can't destroy a planet, you are bit of a wimp. Superman has broke the rules before when Lois Lane passed away (original Superman 1). Imagine, his reaction if adopted home with his adopted parents, friends, girlfriend, ex-girlfriend, etc get annihilated. He might even miss Lex Luthor.
3. (This just an excuse for a poor attempt at humor). Why would you need to the DBZ universe's time travel? In fact, why would the battle take place Goku's universe, did the DC universe lose the homefield advantage when Batman gave up a game winning grand slam to Gohan in DC vs DBZ Softball Classic?

Sorry for the annoyance,
d_sel1

Ok, first of all, a quote from Goku himself, when Vegeta blew up a whole crowd of people: "Shame on you. Taking innocent lives is something I just cant condone"
He's said that line so many times during DBZ, it's like his catchphrase. There isnt a snowball's chance in hell that he'd blow up planet earth, just to piss off another man, who is just as much a good guy as he is. Like I said, this would likely boil down to both of them just wanting to see who was stronger. That's what saiyans want. A challenge. And Superman may oblige, afterall, its just a fight, and no one's getting harmed, so why the hell not?

Also, he wouldnt want to kill goku. Thats just not whats up here. Like I said, a ffight, thats all. Hell, it could even take place in The World Martial Arts Tournament. Superman just decides "Yeah, I think I'll participate for the fun of it, I'll take it easy on them, and donate the prize money to charity" or something. But then he runs into goku, and one thing leads to another.

There are countless scenarios here, but I doubt any of them would result in one wanting to kill the other, ESPECIALLY on goku's part. Goku's been known to even give his opponents the advantage in some cases, just to make it more fun.

So in short, its just a fight.

BeastProwl wrote:Ok, first of all, a quote from Goku himself, when Vegeta blew up a whole crowd of people: "Shame on you. Taking innocent lives is something I just cant condone"
He's said that line so many times during DBZ, it's like his catchphrase. There isnt a snowball's chance in hell that he'd blow up planet earth, just to piss off another man, who is just as much a good guy as he is. Like I said, this would likely boil down to both of them just wanting to see who was stronger. That's what saiyans want. A challenge. And Superman may oblige, afterall, its just a fight, and no one's getting harmed, so why the hell not?

Also, he wouldnt want to kill goku. Thats just not whats up here. Like I said, a ffight, thats all. Hell, it could even take place in The World Martial Arts Tournament. Superman just decides "Yeah, I think I'll participate for the fun of it, I'll take it easy on them, and donate the prize money to charity" or something. But then he runs into goku, and one thing leads to another.

There are countless scenarios here, but I doubt any of them would result in one wanting to kill the other, ESPECIALLY on goku's part. Goku's been known to even give his opponents the advantage in some cases, just to make it more fun.

So in short, its just a fight.

Sorry guys, I wanted to just to bring an unlikely, but possible scenario (plus most of these fights usually have more grave result). My only qualm is Goku is so powerful that e.q. if Superman dodges or deflects a strong Kame-kame-ha, this fight might take a grisly, end of world turn.
We can all agree this fight should take place in a very empty spot in space with a ring made of adamantium or neutronium.