Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[o.supreme]

Hey, I'd love a "Power Suit" themed combiner. Not sure how they would work the design to be universal. The *nightmare* that ensued when you basically had to have a chart to see which Go-Bots could fit in which power-suits, is not something the industry would want to repeat...

Anyway...a nice little video, cant wait to see the toy up close, and her form in animation in the Combiner Wars Micro series.

And I still think this whole thing was rigged.

FAN BUILT! FAN BUILT! FAN BUILT! Remember its on the packaging so you know its FAN BUILT

[Rodimus Prime]

And I still think this whole thing was rigged.

...why? Every fan vote Hasbro's done for Transformers, people cry rigged, but there's never a shred of evidence, or even a decent bit of logic supporting the hypothesis.

I wasn't talking about *every* fan vote. Just this one. I just think that the gender and name and backstory had already been decided upon way before the voting was allowed. The prototype and now the finished product reached us very fast once the voting was concluded. Which means Hasbro had the figures ready to go, they just wanted to wait until the fans were placated. Victorion was always gonna be a female with the backstory she has for the sake of being politically correct and including more female characters. Which makes the voting a moot point. And Transformers are supposed to be gender-less? This is just my opinion, though, I speak for no one else, and I'm not trying to convince anyone else. Having said that, I do like the figure overall, and if I get a chance to pick it up at a decent price, I will.

[King Kuuga]

Transformers have never been genderless, despite what official media would claim. They have always been written, stylized, coded, and portrayed as mostly male with a few female characters thrown in. Their stories have pretty much always been the stories of giant metal people allegorizing human problems in a unique way.

As for the rapidity of the Victorion sample, the voting ended at the end of February 2015, and she was unveiled at SDCC the first weekend in July. That's four months they had to concoct new parts for the chosen figures and churn out the first samples (which were hand-painted and quite possibly had 3D printed parts tacked onto available mold samples, just my speculation). It doesn't seem that farfetched to me that they were able to churn out a sample in that time, especially given that it still took the better part of a year to mass produce the figures and get it on shelves.

[RevTibe]

Victorion was always gonna be a female with the backstory she has for the sake of being politically correct and including more female characters. Which makes the voting a moot point.

I assume this idea is rooted in the great amount of positive press characters such as Windblade and Strongarm generate - they get people talking, get people interested, and the idea is the vote might be rigged to generate more of that press with a female Combiner?

But there's a logical misstep there - the reason it develops so many good vibes is because many, many people are interested in more female Transformers, and if so many people are interested in more female Transformers, they'd vote for a female Combiner.

What's the simplest explanation? That Hasbro knows people are interested in more female Transformers, so they create some conspiracy rigged vote to introduce more female Transformers, or that all the interested people simply voted for a female Combiner?

And Transformers are supposed to be gender-less?

This would only hold water if everyone was a featureless Shockwave-type voiced by gender neutral Microsoft Sam. All Transformers are incredibly humanized, being shaped by tropes and archetypes, subtle and overt, and gender is part and parcel of that package.

[Optimum Supreme]

Rigged voting, stuffed ballot box, whatever. It isn't what fans wanted, it's what some small segment wanted, whether that means Hasbro faked the vote WWE style, or some group of progressives made sure to vote early, and more importantly vote often to make sure they got their "inclusive" combiner.

[RevTibe]

Rigged voting, stuffed ballot box, whatever. It isn't what fans wanted, it's what some small segment wanted, whether that means Hasbro faked the vote WWE style, or some group of progressives made sure to vote early, and more importantly vote often to make sure they got their "inclusive" combiner.

Look, do you have a single shred of evidence for that? At all? Anything? How on Earth are you capable of speaking for the majority of the fanbase?

[King Kuuga]

Rigged voting, stuffed ballot box, whatever. It isn't what fans wanted, it's what some small segment wanted, whether that means Hasbro faked the vote WWE style, or some group of progressives made sure to vote early, and more importantly vote often to make sure they got their "inclusive" combiner.

How can you be so sure that a bunch of people didn't just want a female combiner team? A lot of people on the boards were voicing their support for it last year, is it really so hard to fathom?

[Rodimus Prime]

What's the simplest explanation? That Hasbro knows people are interested in more female Transformers, so they create some conspiracy rigged vote to introduce more female Transformers, or that all the interested people simply voted for a female Combiner?

I didn't say Hasbro needed to set up a fake vote. They could have just said "you're getting a female Combiner and that's that." And neither those who liked it or didn't like it could have done anything about it. I have no problem with a female Combiner, I'm fine with it. Matter of fact, I don't think we have enough female characters in Transformers. I've been around since G1 and all I had were Arcee, Elita, Chromia, and Firestar. And of those, only Arcee, and to some extent Elita had any character development, the rest were background characters. So please don't take this as if I didn't want female characters. All I'm saying is that to me (and yes, I could be wrong) the whole voting thing seemed forced, and the outcome predetermined. I would love to see a poll independent of any official or official-related Transformers media be conducted to see how many people really want a female Combiner, as opposed to the other options that were supposedly available in that fan voting.

And Transformers are supposed to be gender-less?

This would only hold water if everyone was a featureless Shockwave-type voiced by gender neutral Microsoft Sam. All Transformers are incredibly humanized, being shaped by tropes and archetypes, subtle and overt, and gender is part and parcel of that package.

Exactly. I wasn't saying they should be gender-less. Quite the opposite. I posed that question simply because as it was mentioned before, they're not supposed to be gendered, as they don't reproduce by human convention. But it would be hard to erase Arcee from all the continuities she has appeared in so far. Their personalities, however, qualify them masculine or feminine, but not actually male or female, as they don't have reproductive systems.

[King Kuuga]

I posed that question simply because as it was mentioned before, they're not supposed to be gendered, as they don't reproduce by human convention. But it would be hard to erase Arcee from all the continuities she has appeared in so far. Their personalities, however, qualify them masculine or feminine, but not actually male or female, as they don't have reproductive systems.

They are male and female because they identify as male and female. They have genders, the sense of their own identity and outward expression of such. They do not have sex, the biological or physiological components. When we talk about male and female transformers, we are referring to characters who see themselves as male or female, not characters with plugs or sockets between their legs.

I would love to see a poll independent of any official or official-related Transformers media be conducted to see how many people really want a female Combiner, as opposed to the other options that were supposedly available in that fan voting.

Well the only other option besides female is "male"so that wouldn't be a very exciting poll. In addition, to determine if the Hasbro poll was rigged or not, you would have to have all the exact same people vote, and no people voting who didn't vote in last year's polls. Otherwise the sample group is different and not necessarily reflective of the group that influenced the poll decision. Just saying.

[ZeroWolf]

As far as I'm aware it was furman who touted the idea that they were genderless at the start of the idw continuity (despite the fact there was fembots in megatron origins). Arcee was supposedly the first to have a gender till windblade came out and then it turned out that cybertron was the only place where they didn't evolve female tfs.

As for the poll, I believe that everything is above board. It seems that in most cases, people only cry foul because they didn't get the result they wanted. Not saying that you apply in that case rodimus as your suspicion comes from the small time frame between voting ending and victorion appearing.

Though realistically work would of started the moment the moulds were chosen. So they wouldn't of had to wait till the very end.

[Rodimus Prime]

I posed that question simply because as it was mentioned before, they're not supposed to be gendered, as they don't reproduce by human convention. But it would be hard to erase Arcee from all the continuities she has appeared in so far. Their personalities, however, qualify them masculine or feminine, but not actually male or female, as they don't have reproductive systems.

They are male and female because they identify as male and female.

Male and female are sexes. Not types of personality. If they don't have the proper reproductive organs (plugs and sockets, as you say) they can't be a certain sex.

They have genders, the sense of their own identity and outward expression of such. They do not have sex, the biological or physiological components. When we talk about male and female transformers, we are referring to characters who see themselves as male or female, not characters with plugs or sockets between their legs.

So they're masculine and feminine, as I said.

I would love to see a poll independent of any official or official-related Transformers media be conducted to see how many people really want a female Combiner, as opposed to the other options that were supposedly available in that fan voting.

Well the only other option besides female is "male" so that wouldn't be a very exciting poll.

That's not what I meant. In the voting, choosing whether the character be male or female wasn't the only category, was it?

In addition, to determine if the Hasbro poll was rigged or not, you would have to have all the exact same people vote, and no people voting who didn't vote in last year's polls. Otherwise the sample group is different and not necessarily reflective of the group that influenced the poll decision. Just saying.

And therefore it's practically impossible to determine whether it was rigged or not. So we just have to go with what we believe happened. I believe it was rigged. You don't share that belief (I'm guessing) and that's fine. So we're just back to where we started.

[Amelie]

I agree with Rodimus here - there was no way to tell if the voting on this toy was rigged or not. Its hardly like with the Facebook voting for Titan-Wars where we could see the results as they came in.

Male\Female robots - they're male and female if thats what they're being called. Its hardly like they have a socket and a plug thing going on. Masculine\Feminine works just as well for me as well.

[ZeroWolf]

I hurt call them male and female as that's the simplest solution and just asks to suspend that little more belief...which shouldn't be hard really when you think this is a franchise geared towards children who just get told they are male and female robots and they just say "yeah okay, just let me play with them!"

We adults just tend to over complicate things sometimes.

Thinking about it, transparency is what's needed for these polls, but they also need to find a way to make inclusive for everyone to vote. I wonder how the fans would feel knowing if a majority of the votes for victorion were made by the target audience

[King Kuuga]

I posed that question simply because as it was mentioned before, they're not supposed to be gendered, as they don't reproduce by human convention. But it would be hard to erase Arcee from all the continuities she has appeared in so far. Their personalities, however, qualify them masculine or feminine, but not actually male or female, as they don't have reproductive systems.

They are male and female because they identify as male and female.

Male and female are sexes. Not types of personality. If they don't have the proper reproductive organs (plugs and sockets, as you say) they can't be a certain sex.

They have genders, the sense of their own identity and outward expression of such. They do not have sex, the biological or physiological components. When we talk about male and female transformers, we are referring to characters who see themselves as male or female, not characters with plugs or sockets between their legs.

So they're masculine and feminine, as I said.

Male and female are genders as well as sexes. Transformers have these genders. They are more than just masculine and feminine because those are personality traits. You can be a masculine woman and a feminine man. Gender is a core understanding of oneself as male, female, or something else within your species, regardless of biological traits. I know we're conditioned to think of sex and gender as the same thing, and if you're a biological male then that's the end of it, but it's actually more complex than that. Here's some reading if you're interested. Either way, let's just take it at face value that Transformers have gender despite their lack of biological sexes as we understand it.

Simon Furman may have said that they were genderless in IDW but the reality is, like I said a few posts back, they were written, coded, personified, etc. as male. He was basically trying to have his cake and eat it. Transformers are fundamentally giant metal people, and part of that has always been the existence of male and female characters. However, due to idea that boys find girl characters icky, the gender balance has been very skewed through the franchise's history, and only now are Hasbro and IDW taking real steps to try to even things out because they realized that their audience is okay with female characters and in fact wants more.

[Rodimus Prime]

I posed that question simply because as it was mentioned before, they're not supposed to be gendered, as they don't reproduce by human convention. But it would be hard to erase Arcee from all the continuities she has appeared in so far. Their personalities, however, qualify them masculine or feminine, but not actually male or female, as they don't have reproductive systems.

They are male and female because they identify as male and female.

Male and female are sexes. Not types of personality. If they don't have the proper reproductive organs (plugs and sockets, as you say) they can't be a certain sex.

They have genders, the sense of their own identity and outward expression of such. They do not have sex, the biological or physiological components. When we talk about male and female transformers, we are referring to characters who see themselves as male or female, not characters with plugs or sockets between their legs.

So they're masculine and feminine, as I said.

Male and female are genders as well as sexes. Transformers have these genders. They are more than just masculine and feminine because those are personality traits. You can be a masculine woman and a feminine man. Gender is a core understanding of oneself as male, female, or something else within your species, regardless of biological traits. I know we're conditioned to think of sex and gender as the same thing, and if you're a biological male then that's the end of it, but it's actually more complex than that. Here's some reading if you're interested. Either way, let's just take it at face value that Transformers have gender despite their lack of biological sexes as we understand it.

Yeah, in the end it's kinda splitting hairs, I guess. I just don't want the individuality/personality of a character to be diluted just because some (not you) get butthurt over what is and isn't a male and female, is all.

Simon Furman may have said that they were genderless in IDW but the reality is, like I said a few posts back, they were written, coded, personified, etc. as male. He was basically trying to have his cake and eat it. Transformers are fundamentally giant metal people, and part of that has always been the existence of male and female characters. However, due to idea that boys find girl characters icky, the gender balance has been very skewed through the franchise's history, and only now are Hasbro and IDW taking real steps to try to even things out because they realized that their audience is okay with female characters and in fact wants more.

Exactly. That's why I said earlier, I was glad to see a female Combiner, I just wanted to make sure we got one for the right reasons. Because the fandom wanted one, not because Hasbro was pushing its PC agenda on us with the fan vote. As for Furman, I hate to say it, but after the demise of DW, the guy kinda lost his touch, in my opinion. So the stuff he tried to implement from then on should be viewed with at least skepticism.

[Va'al]

Moving along, I have cleared shelf space for Victorion.

Have definitely decide that this is a buy - just need to figure out when, how and from where..

[King Kuuga]

Exactly. That's why I said earlier, I was glad to see a female Combiner, I just wanted to make sure we got one for the right reasons. Because the fandom wanted one, not because Hasbro was pushing its PC agenda on us with the fan vote.

I firmly believe the vote was not rigged, at least not as far as the decision being pre-determined. The voting process, IE where you could vote and how, and how heavily they advertised it, was very much skewed, and that surely influenced the outcome compared to a poll of every single person who likes Transformers ever.
But one of the things I find interesting is that, shortly after they announced that the combiner would be female, they showed off a bunch of new female characters in IDW. This suggests to me that they saw the desire for female characters from the previous two polls and decided to up the ante. Less likely but technically possible would be that they had pre-determined that the combiner would be female and had planned to introduce these other characters as well as part of the previously established female push.

[King Kuuga]

Moving along, I have cleared shelf space for Victorion.

Have definitely decide that this is a buy - just need to figure out when, how and from where..

It's interesting, back in January when I was anticipating my UW Devastator arrival, I completely overhauled my display and bookshelves to accommodate him, and this was the result.

The second shelf down is growing room, but while I like Devastator towering over everybody else, I'm thinking about moving most of the guys down to that second shelf and leaving the combiners on the big shelf. I have all five classic combiners that have been released so far, and with Victorion and Computron and even Liokaiser on the horizon..... I don't even have room for Bruticus and Defensor (not pictured, obviously). Darn combiners being awesome.

[Autobot N]

Moving along, I have cleared shelf space for Victorion.

Have definitely decide that this is a buy - just need to figure out when, how and from where..

It's interesting, back in January when I was anticipating my UW Devastator arrival, I completely overhauled my display and bookshelves to accommodate him, and this was the result.

The second shelf down is growing room, but while I like Devastator towering over everybody else, I'm thinking about moving most of the guys down to that second shelf and leaving the combiners on the big shelf. I have all five classic combiners that have been released so far, and with Victorion and Computron and even Liokaiser on the horizon..... I don't even have room for Bruticus and Defensor (not pictured, obviously). Darn combiners being awesome.

Question: Who is that bot (pun sort-of intended) in between Superion and Menasor?

[Va'al]

Yeah the shelf may be repopulated once she actually gets here, but looking at the displays so far, it kinda works to have them a little emptier than what I originally had!

[D-Maximal_Primal]

And thus we see the centerpieces of Va'al's display

Questions:

Va'al: did the comics make you want to buy Victorion?

That Bot: I see you have a RiD Mega/Giga-tron. Do you happen to know someplace where I could find a replacement tail, weapons and/or dragon forearms?

And my shelf space, which I thought would be alright due to combiners over 2 years taking up my display, has grown more than I thought and is occupying a lot of space. I am keeping Galvatronus combined so I have room on my lost light shelves! Victorion and Computron will certainly make the spacing even more difficult

[King Kuuga]

Question: Who is that bot (pun sort-of intended) in between Superion and Menasor?

It's actually a megazord. I keep it up there because it's too big to go anywhere else, and also it's been up there longer than anybody else so I feel bad taking it down (except to fiddle with or clean).

That Bot: I see you have a RiD Mega/Giga-tron. Do you happen to know someplace where I could find a replacement tail, weapons and/or dragon forearms?

Your best option is probably to find a used Megatron on eBay and raid it for parts. I myself need a replacement weapon, but just the one has kept me from seeking out replacement parts. Searching just now, I found a launcher and missile available (separately) for a few bucks each. Kind of pricey but it's something.

[Va'al]

And thus we see the centerpieces of Va'al's display

Questions:

Va'al: did the comics make you want to buy Victorion?

Yes. That was the final push, for sure!
I have always been umming and aaahing, but some of the BotCon commissions I've ordered include the Torchbearers, so it felt odd not to have any of them - plus, it's two extra Alpha Bravos!

(That, and I really do like the Hot Spot mold, and after the loss of Superion, I kinda want a combiner in the house.)

[D-Maximal_Primal]

And thus we see the centerpieces of Va'al's display

Questions:

Va'al: did the comics make you want to buy Victorion?

Yes. That was the final push, for sure!
I have always been umming and aaahing, but some of the BotCon commissions I've ordered include the Torchbearers, so it felt odd not to have any of them - plus, it's two extra Alpha Bravos!

(That, and I really do like the Hot Spot mold, and after the loss of Superion, I kinda want a combiner in the house.)

That was a big push for me too for sure. I really do like her in the comics, and it is worth the repaints/remolds to get her.

[Agamemnon]

Yeah the shelf may be repopulated once she actually gets here, but looking at the displays so far, it kinda works to have them a little emptier than what I originally had!

I knew it! Alpha Bravo is going to hit on the chopper twins, isn't he?