IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Discuss anything about the Transformers cartoons and comics! You can discuss anything from G1 to Cybertron as well as the comics from Marvel, Dreamwave, IDW and more!

Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby padfoo » Sat Aug 01, 2015 1:17 pm

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Coptur wrote:I completely agree with about the character deaths I used to not mind it but now it annoys me. I really wanted to see more or reflector but they went anskilled him off....twice


I agree with a lot of what you're all saying about needless deaths...... At times our society reminds me of the Romans with their colosseums thirsty for blood to sooth their thirst (boredom) for a gritter reality. More deaths in our entertainment of fictionally known characters adds to the realism of the cellphone/wearables generation. With that said too many awesome and interesting characters go unexplored and we get the all too familiar and safe Optimus and Megs in their endless struggle.....
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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby Deadput » Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:06 pm

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Randomhero wrote:
Welcome the the Game of Thrones/Walking Dead era where anyone can die at any time. Death is part of life. It gives gravity to the situation. The fact you're talking about it shows that. You kill a generic, who cares. You kill an actually character, that leaves an impact. Not every comic needs to be like Marvel/DC and death means nothing and they'll be back next month.

I can't believe it's been almost a year and half since Bee and Shockwave died AND THEYRE STILL DEAD.

With this issue? I won't be surprised if it ends with needlenose or tracks dying by the other's hands. Or both die.




Depth?



I don't recall seeing any deaths that actually made me care asides from the Wreckers, Rewind (which they ruined probably thanks to Tumblr or/and angry fanboys), Pipes, Ambulon, Trailbreaker, Bumblebee and Shockwave.




When characters die I expect to feel something but I don't because we don't know jack about anyone they decide to killoff.



Remember Barrelroll or Springarm and Wheelarch?


That's the proper way to kill off a character it drives the plot and sets motivation for other characters.





Besides its nothing like Game of Thrones they don't ever bother killing someone such as Sideswipe or Hoist or Inferno or anyone important outside of Bumblebee, Ironhide, Sunstreaker, Wheeljack, Trailcutter, Scrapper, The Coneheads, The Battlechargers.


And they brought back three of those guys and more then likely Scrapper's going to posses Scoop and come back from the dead.






It's just a matter of time waiting for which 1986, 1988 or Japanese Transformer they brutally kill for no other reason outside of "Hey were lazy and can't resolve conflicts besides lots and lots of death"
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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby Deadput » Sat Aug 01, 2015 3:12 pm

Motto: "Let's kick the tires and light the fires!"
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padfoo wrote:
I agree with a lot of what you're all saying about needless deaths...... At times our society reminds me of the Romans with their colosseums thirsty for blood to sooth their thirst (boredom) for a gritter reality. More deaths in our entertainment of fictionally known characters adds to the realism of the cellphone/wearables generation. With that said too many awesome and interesting characters go unexplored and we get the all too familiar and safe Optimus and Megs in their endless struggle.....




What is Optimus's character outside of being the heroic leader who angsts and sits in a corner and cries every time something bad happens and being "the only" non corrupted Prime? (Which is total Bull whats the point of a Prime if their all evil? Is the Matrix evil too? We don't know its destroyed)





He was better as Orion Pax.
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Deadput wrote:Actually I don't know my mother's name is Valerie so is Va'al actually my mother?

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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby Coptur » Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:19 pm

I know what you're saying and I agree as I used feel the same way.

But now I've grown to dislike character deaths especially as I want to see more z-list characters grow much like tailgate and serve have done.
When I'm reading idw stuff of late I feel like we're running out of cons as more and more potential characters are needlessly being killed off.
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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby Randomhero » Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:48 pm

mirageandjazz1197 wrote:
Randomhero wrote:
Welcome the the Game of Thrones/Walking Dead era where anyone can die at any time. Death is part of life. It gives gravity to the situation. The fact you're talking about it shows that. You kill a generic, who cares. You kill an actually character, that leaves an impact. Not every comic needs to be like Marvel/DC and death means nothing and they'll be back next month.

I can't believe it's been almost a year and half since Bee and Shockwave died AND THEYRE STILL DEAD.

With this issue? I won't be surprised if it ends with needlenose or tracks dying by the other's hands. Or both die.




Depth?



I don't recall seeing any deaths that actually made me care asides from the Wreckers, Rewind (which they ruined probably thanks to Tumblr or/and angry fanboys), Pipes, Ambulon, Trailbreaker, Bumblebee and Shockwave.




When characters die I expect to feel something but I don't because we don't know jack about anyone they decide to killoff.



Remember Barrelroll or Springarm and Wheelarch?


That's the proper way to kill off a character it drives the plot and sets motivation for other characters.





Besides its nothing like Game of Thrones they don't ever bother killing someone such as Sideswipe or Hoist or Inferno or anyone important outside of Bumblebee, Ironhide, Sunstreaker, Wheeljack, Trailcutter, Scrapper, The Coneheads, The Battlechargers.


And they brought back three of those guys and more then likely Scrapper's going to posses Scoop and come back from the dead.






It's just a matter of time waiting for which 1986, 1988 or Japanese Transformer they brutally kill for no other reason outside of "Hey were lazy and can't resolve conflicts besides lots and lots of death"


youre response makes no sense at all lol.

"I dont care or feel anything when a character dies...EXCEPT about a dozen characters, here's their names." :lol:
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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby Deadput » Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:55 pm

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Randomhero wrote:
youre response makes no sense at all lol.

"I dont care or feel anything when a character dies...EXCEPT about a dozen characters, here's their names." :lol:




How can you not make sense out of that?


Seriously the point is very crystal clear... shows how people need everything pointed out in extreme detail is english not your first language?







I'm saying with the exception of the characters I have said IDW comic deaths are done poorly.





Plus that's a dozen characters out of the hundreds of characters that die for nothing.
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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby SW's SilverHammer » Sat Aug 01, 2015 5:58 pm

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mirageandjazz1197 wrote:
Randomhero wrote:
youre response makes no sense at all lol.

"I dont care or feel anything when a character dies...EXCEPT about a dozen characters, here's their names." :lol:




How can you not make sense out of that?


Seriously the point is very crystal clear... shows how people need everything pointed out in extreme detail is english not your first language?







I'm saying with the exception of the characters I have said IDW comic deaths are done poorly.





Plus that's a dozen characters out of the hundreds of characters that die for nothing.


So, the character and story driven deaths have an impact, the deaths of characters that are essentially redshirts don't. I think that's intentional.
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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby Deadput » Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:38 pm

Motto: "Let's kick the tires and light the fires!"
Weapon: Fusion Blaster Cannon
SW's SilverHammer wrote:
So, the character and story driven deaths have an impact, the deaths of characters that are essentially redshirts don't. I think that's intentional.





Is Trialbreaker a reshirt?



Are the Technobots reshirts?


Because their deaths were pretty bad with not that much impact overall (I felt sad for Trailbreaker but the issue he died in was pretty random to me)



There are some others who also had dumb deaths that were not redshirts.
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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby Randomhero » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:25 pm

mirageandjazz1197 wrote:
SW's SilverHammer wrote:
So, the character and story driven deaths have an impact, the deaths of characters that are essentially redshirts don't. I think that's intentional.





Is Trialbreaker a reshirt?



Are the Technobots reshirts?


Because their deaths were pretty bad with not that much impact overall (I felt sad for Trailbreaker but the issue he died in was pretty random to me)





There are some others who also had dumb deaths that were not redshirts.



The technobots were totally red shirts in IDW(also only 2 have died, the rest have appeared in the background of RID and MTMTE)

You're argument is also not very valid because you said that The Wreckers deaths left an impact with you. Obviously from what I get from that is you didn't understand that book. Those guys were red shirts who died in pointless stupid ways. That's not my opinion, that's from James Roberts himself. Him and nick chose nobody characters to kill in circumstances that were completely avoidable except Iron Fist whose true purpose there was to die. Everyone one else who died was an avoidable circumstance.
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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby Randomhero » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:38 pm

Character dying with no big extravaganza is better than a character getting one. That's real. No one ever goes out in a blaze of glory.

John, Mike, James, Simon they all have put characters who have died in situations where 9/10 it was unavoidable.

Trailbreaker being stuck with a member of the DJD? What did you expect? You really think Arcee would allow Sunstorm or Ratbat to live? She's an insane killer. It's what she is. Pharma doing what did he did to Ambulon? He's a mad doctor! Scrapper partook in the a world wide slaughter of humankind, of course spike would do what he did. The technobots on Kimia went out taking down an army of sweeps.

Character deaths are written very well in IDW. The only characters that have had pointless deaths were the wreckers, but like I said, that was the point. Verity's words "a story of brain bullets and people dying in stupid ways"

Only death I've never been convinced with is Bombshell but that's because I don't think he was ever alive to begin with. He wasn't forged or constructed cold. He was a drone that was one in 1,000 that was sentient, I totally believe bombshell will comeback because he was never alive.
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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby SW's SilverHammer » Sat Aug 01, 2015 8:46 pm

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Randomhero wrote:
mirageandjazz1197 wrote:
SW's SilverHammer wrote:
So, the character and story driven deaths have an impact, the deaths of characters that are essentially redshirts don't. I think that's intentional.





Is Trialbreaker a reshirt?



Are the Technobots reshirts?


Because their deaths were pretty bad with not that much impact overall (I felt sad for Trailbreaker but the issue he died in was pretty random to me)





There are some others who also had dumb deaths that were not redshirts.



The technobots were totally red shirts in IDW(also only 2 have died, the rest have appeared in the background of RID and MTMTE)

You're argument is also not very valid because you said that The Wreckers deaths left an impact with you. Obviously from what I get from that is you didn't understand that book. Those guys were red shirts who died in pointless stupid ways. That's not my opinion, that's from James Roberts himself. Him and nick chose nobody characters to kill in circumstances that were completely avoidable except Iron Fist whose true purpose there was to die. Everyone one else who died was an avoidable circumstance.


Also some of the wreckers were horrible people who probably deserved to die. For Trailbreaker, it is kind kinda like the wreckers thing in that it's a wrong place, wrong time, and his death was completely avoidable if it weren't for cretin factors. If one thing James robert's excels at, is that he shows the world of the transformers bizarrely realistically. Let me lay down this beat, see if you pick it up. In reality there are several million remorseless animals, vehicles, and straight crazy **** that most fiction doesn't show you. Fiction follows rational, causational, logical, stories. Reality prefers to sculpt haunting, dream contaminating scenes of spectacular action and horror movie violence out of the clear blue mundanity of everyday life. Some causes of death in real life are to awful and meaningless that they don't normally appear in anything with a plot. Robert's kinda excels at showing the world can both be a wonderful place, and a horrible one that can result in instant immediate and preventable death if given a little bit of foresight. Or deaths were completely unpreventable because the Universe can be as sadistic as a DM.
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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby ricemazter » Sun Aug 02, 2015 12:43 am

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Really the one character death that I had, and continue to have, a problem with is Trailguy's. I know that a lot of background characters are offed before they can actually be developed, but Trailcutter had so much character wise going for him to the point that his death was a complete waste. He'd just sobered up and turned his life around with so much ahead of him, coming into his own in a role other than hammered sad sack. Heck, since his salvation came from the most reviled bot in the entire universe, Megatron, that alone could make for some interesting stories. Maybe he'd become an Autobot convert to Megs way of thinking, getting chummy with him despite his crew mates protests. Then we'd get to see a bit of the old charismatic Megatron, but in a new light. Both characters could've been developed. Megatron gets to see what it means to influence people the way he originally intended to while Trailguy continues his path to enlightenment. Unfortunately, all that potential for the both of them flew out the window.
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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby Randomhero » Sun Aug 02, 2015 6:48 am

And trailbrraker had one of the most meaningful deaths because as I've said, that's realistic. Sure he was on the beating path and getting his life on track only to get snuffed out. Thats real. That's what made his death so impacting. He had so much going for him and then he died. That's what really happens in the world. Life is short even for 4-5 million year old robots. I miss him a lot but I also understand why he's dead.
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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby Flashwave » Sun Aug 02, 2015 10:34 am

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Trailcutter's death is very 1984. In the book, the main character says that the thought police dont kill you until after they have fixed you. Here, all Trail's life he's been an alcoholic. Then Megatron restarts this filter, and he's a happy-go-lucky guy filled with curiosity and a hunger for knowledge, and then BAM! He gets DJD'd. The con Thought Police, ironically.

And its not pointless, his dying is how the DJD find the other lost Light and Megatron's current alignment
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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby Deadput » Mon Aug 03, 2015 3:25 am

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Randomhero wrote:

The technobots were totally red shirts in IDW(also only 2 have died, the rest have appeared in the background of RID and MTMTE)

You're argument is also not very valid because you said that The Wreckers deaths left an impact with you. Obviously from what I get from that is you didn't understand that book. Those guys were red shirts who died in pointless stupid ways. That's not my opinion, that's from James Roberts himself. Him and nick chose nobody characters to kill in circumstances that were completely avoidable except Iron Fist whose true purpose there was to die. Everyone one else who died was an avoidable circumstance.




At least the Wreckers were developed as people before they died thats why I have no problem with it.



And correcting 3 of the Technobots died I know this i just shortened it to simply Technobots.





There is no point in arguing about opinions I just think to many characters are dying needlessly when made up characters or no named one panel characters could fill the same role and because of named character deaths they have no possibility of being used in roles ideal for them.
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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby D-Maximal_Primal » Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:51 am

Motto: "There are no impossibilities in the multiverse, just small minds unable to comprehend the possibilities"
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Looking good. Very excited for this to come out!

With regards to character deaths: The technobots had a very big beginning in IDW, but fell by the wayside with All Hail Megatron. Trailbreaker is my favorite transformer of all time and I am sad he's gone, but his death has many gears rolling: DJD knows about Megs, Megs realizes he was making a friend then suddenly lost him, Lost Light has a rallying point. Besides: I'd rather have a character with a name die than a generic with no name. adds a wee bit more weight. Yeah some guys only show up to die, but they will get their day, like many in IDW have.
Besides, I like new guys. New guys mix things up. But all this is beside the point. At least Defensor is headed back to the lost light. They get a combiner and some good guys back. Plus, Mirage can act as a back-up limb! :BOT:
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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby Super Megatron » Tue Aug 04, 2015 10:03 am

Motto: "Smashing Optimus Prime toys is the freedom of all sentient beings."
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OMG they've taken Optimus Prime worshiping to a whole new low. There's a bit of the Jim Jones vibe to that Optimus Prime worship movement - a really creepy overtone of what's going to happen. Should be an interesting read.
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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby DarkEnergon » Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:44 am

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I think most of the character deaths have really added unpredictability and depth to the stories, and the randomness of some of the deaths - that you never see them coming - really helps keep you glued. Some, like alot those vis vitalis folks on the personality tick episode, were just a bit too fodder-like, but at the same time, I don't want them to kill *every* bot I recognize the name of :)

For me, the most jarring death was Wheeljack - and then he survived, which I kind of think was lame, but he was my favorite character so hey.

But all around narratives these days there seems to be a trend with challenging what main characters are, and if you can tell a story where the reader doesn't have that feeling "oh, he's in the main cast so he'll be fine, i wonder how he'll get out of this pickle this time" and more of "if". I really liked how in MMTE it was some nobodies from the vis vitalis that figured out the personality tick issue and saved the day, and not the main characters. Just nice to mix it up a little an remind us that there are 200 other bots in the story somewhere.
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IDW The Transformers #44 Review

Postby Va'al » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:50 am

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You Weren't There, Man
(Spoiler free-ish)



Synopsis
LOVE AND HATE! Two emotions only inches from each other—and TRACKS and NEEDLENOSE have felt them both. On opposite sides of an eons-long war, what happens when they meet again? And what’s ARCEE up to on CYBERTRON?

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Solved. Next!


Story

John Barber takes a slightly different turn with this month's issue of The Transformers, while still keeping up the Combiner Wars aftermath threads, and dipping into some of the material unearthed with the Combiner Hunters one-shot. And we get to sort of see some old friends, too.. read on to find out more about #44!

Image
Um.. burn? I guess?


It may seem a little odd at first to have Arcee framing the story, as it initially focuses on Tracks and Needlenose, as synopsis, previews and advance material readily suggest. I mean, ignoring the very first flashback page, of course. But if there's something Barber is good at, it's blending multiple linear (or not) stories into one.

Image
Yeah, I mean, jeez


And there is one particular story that he adds in to the side which is bound to raise some eyebrows, wrinkle some brains and worry some worriers. Though thinking about it, it's not that out of place for what and how the character has been established previously, in this very series, even though there is a new twist to it this time round.

Image
Here's a hint..


And with Needlenose and Arcee, we have a double-sided look at where this series might be going, as the vacuum left by Megatron, the vacuum left by the civil war, leads into yet another shift in the precarious status quo of the various events of the past couple of publication years. Where to? We'll have to wait and see.

Art

The linework is actually a lot more linear, and definitely well-suited to the story, than we might expect. Andrew Griffith does a mighty fine job in offering both exterior and interior shots, for an otherwise very static issue - in terms of action (though there are some hectic moments). And the final page is everything, once you realise.

Image
Static as in tension


Josh Perez' colours are magnificently accompanying the grimdark - I mean it in the best way possible! ok, bleak, bleak! - setting for the issue. Inside and out. There are some truly stunning passages slower moments in the narration, and it all just works, beautifully.

Image
BROOD


Tom B. Long gets some fun parts too, adding signs and sounds where the locations really needed some, and keeping the dialogues and fonts in check across the board. I will never stop being amazed at how easy he makes it look. We have seen the two main covers in the past, featuring a self(ie)-keen Tracks and Needlenose by Griffith and Perez, a melancholy Arcee with Casey Coller and Joana Lafuente, and the entirely appropriate and adorable tumbnailed RI variant by Agnes Garbowska.


Thoughts
Spoilerish ahead

As I was writing the review for Combiner Hunters, I kept saying, and made clear in the piece too, that I hoped to see further development from Arcee's lines in further issues of the ongoings. I really did not have to wait that long, as Barber takes the step a couple of inches further in this issue, and surrounds it with an extremely well-taut series of lines across Cybertron (mostly).

Image
Because I'm Bba-- Arcee


It takes a seriously impressive variety of previous storylines that have been somewhat suspended as corporate did its thing, and may be a hint towards IDW authors being able to write their own stuff and redevelop it for a while yet. Which can only be a good thing, whatever the voices say.

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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby SW's SilverHammer » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:55 am

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Real quick, just because I like to keep most of my comics in a chronological order in regards to story progression (with some exceptions) Should I place combiner hunters before or after this issue?
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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby Va'al » Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:57 am

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SW's SilverHammer wrote:Real quick, just because I like to keep most of my comics in a chronological order in regards to story progression (with some exceptions) Should I place combiner hunters before or after this issue?


Before. Definitely.
If you look at the review of CH, I mention something in there about its timeline placing!
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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby MemphisR56 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:09 am

Motto: "An inconvenience is just an adventure wrongly viewed!"
Weapon: Crossbow
Was that Action Master Thundercracker among the Exticons? Who was the Conehead in that groupshot? Dirge? Didn't quite seem to be his colours.

Also, nice visual callback to Rodimus's speech at rivets field on that last page there. So it looks like Needlenose is gonna be starting up his own decepticon splinter faction? *and* he was in a relationship with Horribull(hurrah for first canon gay faction leader!) and we finally get a reveal that Starscream was talking to a hallucination of bumblebeewhile he's by himself. Makes me want to re-read season 2 of RiD to see if that makes anything about his methods a little clearer.

It was a good issue, I get the feeling the whole thing could be avoided if tracks wasn't such a tool though. :-?

Any ideas who that member of the badgeless was?
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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby SW's SilverHammer » Wed Aug 05, 2015 3:11 am

Motto: "The  days  grow  shorter,  and  yet  the  sun  still  shines"
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Va'al wrote:
SW's SilverHammer wrote:Real quick, just because I like to keep most of my comics in a chronological order in regards to story progression (with some exceptions) Should I place combiner hunters before or after this issue?


Before. Definitely.
If you look at the review of CH, I mention something in there about its timeline placing!

Thanksies ^u^
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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby Randomhero » Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:04 am

I loved this this issue. It had a lot of great things in it. Loved the MTMTE homage at the end.

Nice to see Skullgrin even though he's dead...lol
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Re: IDW The Transformers #44 Discussion Thread

Postby ScottyP » Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:28 am

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I don't think this is super spoiler-y, but just in case, I'll throw this in tags. Barber managed to make Needlenose kind of cool. I didn't even think he was cool when I was 6 years old, although Spinister and Quake having way cooler toys are mostly responsible for that. Darkwing/Dreadwind too, Needlenose kind of felt like a cheap, worse version of them.
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