Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[TulioDude]

Does this mean Apple is entering the movie market?

They already did. Have you watched Wolfwalkers?

Nope.

[william-james88]

Collider interviewed Lorenzo di Bonaventura about the upcoming 2024 animated Transformers film, where he is one of the main producers. The movie will take place entirely on Cybertron where we will see much younger versions of characters like Optimus Prime and Megatron. Here is what Lorenzo had to say:

"I could tell you really important parts of this story, which is more than a tease. This is something we were trying to do; we debated a lot about it in live action, and it just was financially impossible to do, which is, the origin story of young Megatron and young Optimus. If you know the origin, they started as friends, and over time things devolved for them and they ended up on two sides. So we're telling the young Optimus and the young Megatron story. We really are telling the origin story of all Transformers, both what they were at the beginning of it, to how they grow, to how they grow apart."

"We’re hoping that there is enough emotional construct to that, that would lead to a trilogy of it because, personally, I think there's a natural trilogy. I'm not always looking to do multiple movies, but there's a natural trilogy around their relationship. So, you're going to see Cybertron in a way you've never seen it, that no one's ever seen it before. Because we're doing an animation, we're allowed to really go all out. If you tried to make this live-action, it would probably be a billion-dollar movie or something."

"You're going to see a lot of the origins of the society, and what broke it apart. The analogy for me is a bit like Krypton when you saw the planet falling apart, and all that. We're not there for a short time, we're there the entire time of the movie, we're on Cybertron, but we are in the challenge that, if you know the lore, they begin to question the hierarchy of how their society has gotten stratified, and how the common man doesn't have the voice, entirely, that they want to have. We're following very true to the origin story of it, and so it's really fun, too, because I've gotten to see some of it – it's not fully executed by any stretch of the imagination, but hearing Optimus and Megatron not as who we know them as, which we see their maturation in this experience. So, in a sense, you're hearing a different character because you're hearing them before they have matured."

"It's not a coming-of-age story. I don't think you’d believe that, in a way, but I would say they're young men who are finding their path. Like I said, it's more than a tease, that's what the story is, and that's the experience you're going to go through. And how they question society, just like all of us, too, could question our society. We’re maybe not as strong as Megatron and Optimus, so maybe we wouldn't make the same choices, but I think it's really going to be an eye-opener for the fans. For the non-fans, you're going to get to meet the characters in their early formation."

"I would say this, we don't spend a lot of time thinking about two and three because it's always hard to do one well. But there is a natural trilogy coming out of this friendship where you can see the divisions and the possible attractions to each other, and why that should play out over three movies, is very natural. So we have a good sense in the broadest terms, but in the broadest terms, we know what the second movie would be about and the third movie would be about through the eyes of what this relationship's going through. So the exact plotting, we haven't worked on that, but how that relationship evolves, devolves, evolves, devolves, all that stuff, that's what's going to drive it if we get lucky, if the first one's a success."

[First-Aid]

Why do I have a feeling this is going to devolve into a political statement movie?

[ZeroWolf]

Why do I have a feeling this is going to devolve into a political statement movie?

It sounds similar to how IDW handled it, which I enjoyed. The Trilogy idea he mentions basically makes me believe that we want see Optimus and Megs come to proper blows till the 3rd movie, which could be interesting, or fail. Still, nice to see more being done with it given how little we hear on it.

[Stormshot_Prime]

Why do I have a feeling this is going to devolve into a political statement movie?

I mean, as a prequel to a series about a millennia long war, I’d be puzzled if there wasn’t some kind of political element to it. Intergalactic wars don’t just happen in a vacuum (wink)

[griftimus prime]

pre war?

[First-Aid]

Why do I have a feeling this is going to devolve into a political statement movie?

I mean, as a prequel to a series about a millennia long war, I’d be puzzled if there wasn’t some kind of political element to it. Intergalactic wars don’t just happen in a vacuum (wink)

As long as it doesn't get preachy. I miss the days when movies were all about entertainment and didn't have to have a specifically "relevant" political view. The poor writing and getting overly preachy was part of what ruined Jodie Whitaker's run as The Doctor. TV and Movies are an escape for us, there doesn't need to be a "real world relevancy" to the fiction they are telling despite what the writers of pretty much every movie and show think right now.

Tell a good, well-developed story. Don't get preachy about your politics. Make money. The End.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

So, you're going to see Cybertron in a way you've never seen it, that no one's ever seen it before.

Considering this pitch, is that supposed to be ironic?

"and how the common man doesn't have the voice"
"but I would say they're young men who are finding their path."

Overly humanising and riffing off of IDW, then? This seems so incredibly safe and generic.

Just animate Megatron:Origin. There's your Pre-War Cybertron story done in one. It gives both Pax and Megs their character arcs and ideological differences. Without undue padding.

[Sabrblade]

You guys do remember that it was the first live-action movie and its tie-in comics (Movie Prequel, Defiance, and Foundation, specifically) that started the idea of Optimus and Megatron as former friends and "brothers" who had a falling out when the war started, right?

It was then the Aligned media (particularly the Exodus novel and flashbacks in the Prime cartoon) that fleshed out this idea into a full-fledged backstory, which IDW, Cyberverse, and the Netflix WFCT cartoon only took afterward.

This description just sounds like it's gonna be yet another version of that backstory.

[william-james88]

Why do I have a feeling this is going to devolve into a political statement movie?

It will have politics for sure, it's been part of the brand for a long time. Whether or not it triggers you will depend on you.

[First-Aid]

Why do I have a feeling this is going to devolve into a political statement movie?

It will have politics for sure, it's been part of the brand for a long time. Whether or not it triggers you will depend on you.

I understand that completely. The original G1 cartoon was good vs evil, freedom vs domination. Eventually they added the aspect of freeing from slavery (the QUintessons). That said, my worry is that it's going to be OVERLY preachy, trying to sell the viewer on the views (whether left or right) of the writer/director/producer and thus destroy the quality of the entertainment.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Why do I have a feeling this is going to devolve into a political statement movie?

It will have politics for sure, it's been part of the brand for a long time. Whether or not it triggers you will depend on you.

I understand that completely. The original G1 cartoon was good vs evil, freedom vs domination. Eventually they added the aspect of freeing from slavery (the QUintessons). That said, my worry is that it's going to be OVERLY preachy, trying to sell the viewer on the views (whether left or right) of the writer/director/producer and thus destroy the quality of the entertainment.

The whole premise of Transformers from the outset was an embittered Civil War. Although initially Sunbow dumbed down adjusted their series for kids, presenting this war in the simplest way possible. We are several decades passed that now. Objectively, in a conflict spanning millions of years, there is no "good vs. evil".

There is no sugar coating what a Civil War is. What it means. Just seeing the franchise at the base G1 level of "toys being smashed together" is naiveté to the very narrative of the source material. That's why Megatron: Origin worked. Why I think it would hit all the right notes for what this "unique" pitch wants to stretch into three films.

[-Kanrabat-]

Why do I have a feeling this is going to devolve into a political statement movie?

It will have politics for sure, it's been part of the brand for a long time. Whether or not it triggers you will depend on you.

I understand that completely. The original G1 cartoon was good vs evil, freedom vs domination. Eventually they added the aspect of freeing from slavery (the QUintessons). That said, my worry is that it's going to be OVERLY preachy, trying to sell the viewer on the views (whether left or right) of the writer/director/producer and thus destroy the quality of the entertainment.

The whole premise of Transformers from the outset was an embittered Civil War. Although initially Sunbow dumbed down adjusted their series for kids, presenting this war in the simplest way possible. We are several decades passed that now. Objectively, in a conflict spanning millions of years, there is no "good vs. evil".

There is no sugar coating what a Civil War is. What it means. Just seeing the franchise at the base G1 level of "toys being smashed together" is naiveté to the very narrative of the source material. That's why Megatron: Origin worked. Why I think it would hit all the right notes for what this "unique" pitch wants to stretch into three films.

First Aid talked about the woke/cultist politics like every isms under the sun, pronoms shenanigans, and weird sex stuff. Those are way too current year and USA centric. If those are in, these will make a cringe and bad movie.

The universal politics like civil war, defending freedom, corruption, betrayals, all those things that are part of stories told since millennia are UNIVERSAL and can stand the test of time. Usually, such stories, in the hands of competent writers who have actual life experience, can become classics that can remain relevant forever.

There's around 10000 years of written and told stories that proves it.

[First-Aid]

Why do I have a feeling this is going to devolve into a political statement movie?

It will have politics for sure, it's been part of the brand for a long time. Whether or not it triggers you will depend on you.

I understand that completely. The original G1 cartoon was good vs evil, freedom vs domination. Eventually they added the aspect of freeing from slavery (the QUintessons). That said, my worry is that it's going to be OVERLY preachy, trying to sell the viewer on the views (whether left or right) of the writer/director/producer and thus destroy the quality of the entertainment.

The whole premise of Transformers from the outset was an embittered Civil War. Although initially Sunbow dumbed down adjusted their series for kids, presenting this war in the simplest way possible. We are several decades passed that now. Objectively, in a conflict spanning millions of years, there is no "good vs. evil".

There is no sugar coating what a Civil War is. What it means. Just seeing the franchise at the base G1 level of "toys being smashed together" is naiveté to the very narrative of the source material. That's why Megatron: Origin worked. Why I think it would hit all the right notes for what this "unique" pitch wants to stretch into three films.

First Aid talked about the woke/cultist politics like every isms under the sun, pronoms shenanigans, and weird sex stuff. Those are way too current year and USA centric. If those are in, these will make a cringe and bad movie.

The universal politics like civil war, defending freedom, corruption, betrayals, all those things that are part of stories told since millennia are UNIVERSAL and can stand the test of time. Usually, such stories, in the hands of competent writers who have actual life experience, can become classics that can remain relevant forever.

There's around 10000 years of written and told stories that proves it.

You explained it better than I did. Thanks, bro.

Incidentally, this isn't just about "woke". I don't give a rats a$$ which direction the writer leans. I don't want to see their political views interfering with the movie. Like Optimus being converted to a female Autobot at some point or Ironhide being a card-carrying NRA member or whatever. Leave that shtuff out and tell us about Transformers.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Those are way too current year and USA centric.

I see. That's why I wasn't really following. I guess it doesn't alleviate any concerns when the pitch refers to Prime and Megs as "young men".

Why is it so hard for people to see that Transformers are sentient alien robots? Use that as the foundation of your story. Without humanising to the point of making a story so generic it could be about anyone. Not specific to the Transformers.

[-Kanrabat-]

Ironhide being a card-carrying NRA member

Oh God, this needs to happen. I'd laugh out loud so much!

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Some Bolshevik

At least try to be original. I'm so very tired of reading the same thing over and over from you regularly.

[-Kanrabat-]

Some Bolshevik

At least try to be original. I'm so very tired of reading the same thing over and over from you regularly.

Too bad you can't seem to accept basic truths and common sense.

Just get out of your comfort zone and look at the past year's biggest success VS the biggest flops just on the movie front.

Also, look at the movies that remain popular even decades after they are out. There's a common thread that link all of these successes. Meaning prioritising UNIVERSAL VALUES and ENTERTAINMENT.

What's so hard to understand about that?

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Some Bolshevik

At least try to be original. I'm so very tired of reading the same thing over and over from you regularly.

Too bad you can't seem to accept basic truths and common sense.

Just get out of your comfort zone and look at the past year's biggest success VS the biggest flops just on the movie front.

Also, look at the movies that remain popular even decades after they are out. There's a common thread that link all of these successes. Meaning prioritising UNIVERSAL VALUES and ENTERTAINMENT.

What's so hard to understand about that?

Too bad you seem to regurgitate the same "woke" word in every post you ever post about fiction.

On the movie front, what has Ant man, Morbius, Shazam!, etc. had in common that makes them "woke"? nothing.

Biggest successes? Avatar 2 (visual trip), Maverick (nostalgia), Spider Man (arguably nostalgia here too).

As for some of the more memorable movies (and if you want, TV series too) of both past and present:

-Star Wars: the Rebellion was Vietnam, the Empire was the US, and Palpatine is Nixon. Stormtroopers were born of Nazi origin.
-John Wick 3: one of the main secondary characters is a non-binary, literally played no role in their part, they just existed, as non-binaries actually do.
-Avatar: it is literally the definition of anti-colonialism
-Avatar the Last Airbender: dictorship, colonialism, fascism
-Legend or Korra: main characters is a bisexual, bore no effect on the story, she just existed, as bisexuals do.
-Jurassic World Camp Cretaceous: 1 of the main 6 is a lesbian, the other a bisexual, it just happened, like any other romance, it was not the "big point" of the show, never was.
-Jurassic Park: literally the first movie established that the Dinosaurs switched genders to breed.

If you are talking about one of the main talking points of a movie or TV series involving LTBGQ+/fascism/etc. and it bears little part in the story, that is one thing.

But just having things exist? that really should not be a factor.

But i also know you, based on years of reading your BS. You will not watch Earthspark now thanks to Nightshade, despite the fact that this character was never advertised, it was a natural part of the show and it isn't made a big deal of, they just exist. So when you say what you say above, I know exactly what you mean.

Considering people can publically get into office holding nazi views in more than just the US, and worldwide many countries suppress or even outride genocide LTBTQ+ folks, folks of certain religions, etc., I'd hardly call a lot of these "here and now in the US only" problems. We are witnessing the rise of people that actively suppress others, while also witnessing old prejudices that we thought were mostly put to rest now rise to mainstream debate once more, when again they should be long dead.

And in the end, you can make a good show or movie that supports those views and is still memorable long after. Can you do it badly? yes, like you can anything. But can it work? again, like everything, it can.

And even if the original reason fades from public exposure (i.e. nixon and the Vietnam war), it can still serve as a warning for the future, as we currently see, history repeats itself.

[-Kanrabat-]

First you should know what "woke" means.
Woke is NOT, and I repeat, is NOT about being for LGBTQ rights, being anti racist, being feminist, and so on.
"Woke" is NOT about liberal values.

Woke is a shape-shifting cult that grab anything just to gain power. You can have an opinion that "the woke" will agree with today but next year, your same opinion will be "far right". The woke will make mountains out of molehills. They love to divide and conquer.

Have the classic Liberal Bill Maher explain it:
5 millions views and almost 15K comments.



Also, have Chris Gore, a pro Hollywood filmmaker, explaining why so much modern movies is now crap:
3 millions views and almost 25K comments.


I do hope this will help you understand.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Read your statement before, same crap different day.

You are the one who uses woke all the time, and you almost exclusively do. You use it to describe something that makes you feel slightly uncomfortable or will take away from something you want to enjoy.

You base your opinions on videos that have lots of views and interaction, but that is not a good indicator of if they are right or actually helpful.

And you always use the same condescending tone when discussing it.

You have a pattern. You have been consistent. There is a reason your posts add nothing to the Transformers fiction threads.

This part is spoken both as a long time member, and as an admin.

And given I just helped you once again delay a thread to a place where it really should not be, needlessly because you have to get to your favorite real life talking points, I'm going to end it here so we can return to the potential movie, instead of the same crick in the neck.

[-Kanrabat-]

"You can lead a horse to the fountain, but you can't force it to drink."

So who's the horse?

You?

Me?

This is getting nowhere and having a dialogue de sourd is pointless. I said my opinion, you said yours, and that's that.

Now let's move on.

[Rodimus Prime]

As was said before, as long as it doesn't get preachy. I like backstory that IDW came up with for Pax and Megatron, my main concern is hopefully some other characters (mainly Shockwave, Magnus and Grimlock) will also be spotlighted.

As for the political debate, most (if not all) wars begin with political debates devolving into violence, regardless of what the subject is. I don't expect it to be different here.

Hopefully Hasbro and Paramount got decent writers and a capable director who has the franchise itself in mind, as opposed to what we're getting with RoTB.

[william-james88]

Just get out of your comfort zone and look at the past year's biggest success VS the biggest flops just on the movie front.

The biggest successes have been accused of forcing political values and wokeness as well. Right wing extremists were raging at the Super Mario Brothers movie for being woke since the person Mario has to save is Luigi instead of Peach and Peach is a girl boss in the film.

And Avatar has the whole white people as colonists are evil political message along with the message showing the evil of capitalism, two issues decried as woke, like in the following article: https://risk-monger.com/2022/12/15/avat ... lm-review/
I personally greatly disliked Avatar the Way of Water, not necessarily for the messages themselves but for how blatant the parable was. It really felt like an afterschool special given the most budget in the world (which I believe is exactly what it is).

In terms of TV, the biggest success so far this year is The last of Us which was panned by right wing critics (like Ben Shapiro) for being woke.

I know you previously stated that you don't find those messages to qualify as "woke", like with Wakanda Forever, but others did. In all theses cases, these "woke" movies made bank. In the end, it just proves that none of that matters if the story and film is popular with people (doesn't even have to be good).

[D-Maximal_Primal]

This is getting nowhere and having a dialogue de sourd is pointless. I said my opinion, you said yours, and that's that.

And I am going to say it officially now: your opinions regularly drive topics off track and usually involve regular breaks into a tried and true tirade that adds nothing meaningful to the discussion.

So, let me make this clear: you decide to go on a "woke" tirade again, or for that matter even decide to discuss the "wokeness" of a film, TF or not, you will not be welcomed back to the fiction forums.

It has bordered on the brink of trolling, and next time will be treated as such.

Now let's move on.

as I said in the post above yours: yes.

As was said before, as long as it doesn't get preachy. I like backstory that IDW came up with for Pax and Megatron, my main concern is hopefully some other characters (mainly Shockwave, Magnus and Grimlock) will also be spotlighted.

As for the political debate, most (if not all) wars begin with political debates devolving into violence, regardless of what the subject is. I don't expect it to be different here.

I agree with Rodimus Prime here, as I said in my long post: there is a difference between a good message and "preachy".

for more on that, I recommend the Dead Meat show, particularly the Tales from the Hood trilogy. He breaks down the difference between preachy and allegorical enjoyment.

1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1RnjJd2c88
2) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgeYG_KroL4
3) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9y1rK6USN7M

good stuff

Thank you Will, this is what I would've wished I had brought up, but my finger isn't as to the pulse of the movie and TV series industry as yours