The Energon Pub

[william-james88]

It is a growing concern for fans that more and more retail space is being given to Transformers toys aimed at younger audiences, with simplified or instant transformations instead of more complex puzzles, and plagued with gimmicks. While simpler toys have been around since the beginning - they are toys after all - the option of figures aimed at a younger audience sold alongside more complex toys has been around since the first live action Transformers film (2007), with the Gravity Bots and Fast Action Battlers. And it has decidedly grown since.

There is, however, one big part we tend to forget: this distinction in age groups started happening because Transformers toys grew more complex and less gimmicky. In G1, the kiddie line was all we had. There weren’t more advanced toys. It's not like you could pick between a jumpstarter Top Spin and a Deluxe Top Spin back in the 80s - Jumpstarter Top Spin was all you had.

We are also very quick to forget that when we see toys that are today’s equivalent of Jumpstarter Top Spin (e.g. Turbo changers and One Step toys) on the shelves.

Now the status quo is changing once more, with both the Bumblebee Movie line and the Cyberverse cartoon line being made up solely of gimmick driven toys. At this point, I thought of looking at other action figure toylines available at retail and compare, principally the DC and Marvel figures, and Star Wars toys (the last two being a perfect comparison since they are made by the same company as Transformers).

And yeah, as the title suggests, we Transformers collectors are waaaaaaaaay better off than anyone collecting DC, Mavel or Star Wars figures.

A picture is worth a thousand words so let's just check out some pics from my latest visit to Walmart and Toys R Us (sorry, American readers, I don’t mean to open up recent wounds).


We have Marvel











Notice how the main attraction for parents, kids and anyone wanting a Marvel toy here is limited to either tall PVC toys with limited articulation or smaller toys based on gimmicks. The Marvel Legends line, which encompasses figures aimed at older kids and fans of the movies and comics all mixed together, are sparsely stocked, if at all. The only toys exclusively for Infinity war are only made for younger kids. Collectors have to instead try to find more articulated toys of characters from the film within a wave that has movie characters and other totally unrelated characters from the comics. And if you want to get a decent figure of the main villain in the film (Thanos), you are stuck having to buy all the figures in the wave, even the non movie ones, since this villain has his parts split amongst all these figures. Can't find a figure? too bad, not only do you not get that specific toy but your buildable figure is also missing a limb. NICE!


We have DC







Basically the same as Marvel. Sure, we have some more collector oriented toys, but it is mainly bigger and simpler products, aimed at younger kids. Right now, as with Marvel, toys featuring the characters from the movies, toys or games are not in lines of their own but lumped together. And if you want better articulated figures of the Justice League Action show, well, too bad!



Now Star Wars













Ok, this is a little different. While like DC and Marvel there is only one line for collectors, which also mixes in characters from across the franchise, the simpler toys do have a retro feel which can attract collectors as well. Basically, it’s as if alongside Transformers deluxes and voyagers, we literally had a G1 Topspin reissue somewhere on the shelf. Not just him, but other characters from recent films. Which is basically what we already have with the One Steps, but imagine all the One Steps had the same packaging as G1 Top Spin. That is basically what is going on with Star Wars. One difference though: these smaller simpler Star Wars figures overwhelm the shelf space, and most other toys are all aimed at younger audiences too, like the vehicles, playsets and role play weapons.


Now let’s look at Transformers













There are definitely toys for younger audiences, there is no denying that and it is what this article started from. But unlike every other toyline covered here, these simpler toys are not the majority of product being sold. They are just a subset - there are far more toys that are complex and made up of more than 5 steps, for adult fans and older kids alike. And we have more than just one line of those too. We have movie toys in their own line (Studio Series) and other toys looking at the history of the brand in another. Plus remnants of a previous cartoon line which also had some standard complex toys for collectors to enjoy (Robots in Disguise).

That last part is of course changing, with Cyberverse not having options for older kids, but that just means Hasbro is doing with Transformers what it has done with Marvel and Star Wars long ago (in a galaxy far ... ok I 'll stop). So to reiterate, toys targeting younger kids are usually the norm, and have been the norm since, well... toys are for kids. Yet, in the Transformers brand, we get lines dedicated to more mature kids and appealing to adult collectors, and those toys tend to take up a lot more shelf space compared to similarly marketed toys in other franchises.

So yeah, we Transformers fans have it a lot better than the rest when it comes to our options of more collector oriented toys.

[Randomhero]

Bob Budiansky has a wonderful quote about fans not liking his transformers comics and I feel it can be extended toward the toys to:

“If there are older Transformers fans who feel my stories were too geared to children—hey, good insight! That was the audience I was playing to”

I’m a 33 guy who works his butt off to pay the bills but I also collect transformers and I’m fully aware the first and most important audience is kids because we were kids once and we were introduced to a cartoon that more than a than should had really bad animation and toys that were literal bricks and we had to use our imagination to give them elbows and knees.

The toys that are made today are damn good in my opinion

[notsoalex]

This really makes you appreciate what you have.

[ZeroWolf]

A very good article will this helps show that we have got it a lot better than some think but I've got a feeling they'll find something to complain about still

I do like it when articles like this come along

[william-james88]

A very good article will this helps show that we have got it a lot better than some think but I've got a feeling they'll find something to complain about still

I do like it when articles like this come along

That's very kind of you, thank you so much! I just kept reading the same post after post across different boards online and wanted to put things in perspective.

[Rysquad]

Go even younger and it's pretty similar: Transformers, Marvel, and Star Wars with Playskool and DC with Imaginext.

[hinomars19]

We are lucky in the lengths Hasbro has gone to both acknowledge and cater to the distinction, but sadly it is let down by distribution/what stores are willing to stock. My Tesco for example, has made a conscious decision to ONLY carry the super kiddy and gimmick stuff. Generations is dead to them, and they have stopped stocking even RiD warriors for a very long time.

I'm still of the opinion, the Masterpiece line aside, that the distinction doesn't need such a big line drawn. UT toys are the bastion of TF toys! Animation accurate, chunky, fun gimmicks, easy (but good looking) transformations, and, just with a few Armada toys as the exception, good articulation...how does that not please both?

For me, G1 toys LOOKED and FELT good. They had chrome, stickers, clear plastic, had accesories etc. They felt worth something and were fun to play with. I feel that hasn't followed throughout the years. Today's one steps and the like are awful. Not because they are simple and provide quick kid value, because they just.... The designs of simple movie and RiD toys don't look nice to me either. And that's because the designs of the TFs themselves are less than appealing. Let's get Animated on the phone, and ask how it managed to create a cartoon aesthetic that was made to sell good toys. There is no shame in designing these things with toy and animation processes in mind. I feel they (hasbro, and even fan expectation) have lost that, more than anything. Now Cyberverse, I think, is getting there. The warriors look like nice toys. Sadly, the pricing is disgraceful

Just to note; RiD warrior Bumblebee was something I considered more than once, but just kept putting him back on the shelf because he just looked cumbersome with car part backpacks and silly fake bits on his bot mode. He seems more complex than a CW Arielbot, but he appeals to me far, far less. Because the CW toys achieve so much more with far less bits and pieces. And are chunkier And have a fun gimmick and have fun accessories

BTW, I'm 37

[DecepticonFinishline]

Thank you for the insight. I needed that. It's easy to get frustrated, but as a one-trick pony of collecting, I hadn't considered how it is for everyone else.

So, sincerely, thank you for forcing me to be more considerate of our fellow fandoms.

[paul053]

I have to agree with you, but this applies "ONLY" if I can see anything from the stores.

Pretty much in all the retail stores (Target, Walmart, TRUs don't exist now) around where I live or even other states I visited, the TF aisle and selections are close to nothing. The pictures you showed are just unrealistic to me.

But yes, nice article.

[ZeroWolf]

One key thing to remember is that g1 was the start of this all and the world was more or less a different place then it is now. Production costs are up and businesses want less risks and a bigger profit margin to make investors happy. Having lines split like this makes it easy to see what is selling and what isn't, allowing them to redefine the next line.

[hausjam]

Put a G1 Optimus next to a POTP Optimus and tell me which one looks and feels more expensive. Today's licensed toys feel like yesterday's knock offs. While today's knockoffs tend to exceed today's licensed toys in quality. Granted they have an unfair pricing advantage. But it's still pretty sad.

[ZeroWolf]

Put a G1 Optimus next to a POTP Optimus and tell me which one looks and feels more expensive. Today's licensed toys feel like yesterday's knock offs. While today's knockoffs tend to exceed today's licensed toys in quality. Granted they have an unfair pricing advantage. But it's still pretty sad.

Which one looks more expensive? Easily the potp one as it does more and looks more. Most kids will pick the newer toys (tested with my eldest, he preferred my newer stuff over the G1)

[SG Roadbuster]

hey william-james88, can you pick me up one of those rid Heatseeker legions please? dont think i'ver ever seen him round these parts.

[Flashwave]

Money wise, I am glad I can not worry about Cyberverse, but I am bummed. We are getting at least one or 2 cool Cons, Cons I have wanted to have Toys for since their inception. Yes, I mean Shadow Striker. Vut we aren't getting a cool toy of her. If she had debuted even a year ago we might have gotten her in an RID line and I eoulda been fine, because even the "Kiddy Brand" stuf2f stayed somewhat true to the line. I don't expect Rescue Bots to have full fledged action figures because of being targeted to an extreme age range, but even thpse did sme neat stuff (Quinjet Bee) Likewise, as the next step up, I don't expect to see RID15 toys being as complex or as clean as a Generations or a Movie toy, but even Strong Arm was a good figure for no more than she did.. Blurr was a very tempting figure. Stormshot, Megatronus, I can go on
They were simple without feeling incomplete. These new toy lines feel like Happy Meal McToys, and if thats where we were getting them that would be fine, but its not. And yes, the range of options that qe have in Generations and Studio Series far exceeds what the Marvel Legends and DC Multiverse lines offer (although its worth noting that a majority of those characters are all between 4 and 8 feet tall ) but I don't think that makes it unfaor to call Hasbro out on taking 2 steps backward on their toyline when its immediate predacessor and the same Design team are doing so.

Put a G1 Optimus next to a POTP Optimus and tell me which one looks and feels more expensive. Today's licensed toys feel like yesterday's knock offs. While today's knockoffs tend to exceed today's licensed toys in quality. Granted they have an unfair pricing advantage. But it's still pretty sad.

Blindfold test? POTP Hands Down, every time. I would not expect to pay as much for a new toy of G1 Prime Complexity as I do for a new Leader Class.

But to answer your question as you state it: Knowing that G1 Prime is a treasured Collector Piece, long out of Production, and of high demand, I.would expect to pay more for it than POTP, but that's owing to market ranges and not actually anything to do with Tpys

[william-james88]

hey william-james88, can you pick me up one of those rid Heatseeker legions please? dont think i'ver ever seen him round these parts.

Sure, he and cyclonus never reached the US (the wave was skipped). But for your info, it wouldnt be cheap, even if you only pay the cost.

They are $8.99 each plus shipping would be $10 (minimum for packaged from Can to US, it seems) and I am taxed 15%. So in the end, this toy would cost you around $22 CAN, which is around $17 USD. If you are still interested, send me a PM and we can work out the details.

[Whirlkick]

Thanks for this article, an interesting and great read! I'm from the UK and I collect toys from all of those fandoms, and I agree that TF has it best. I can't find Star Wars Black Series figures anywhere except in comic shops, the same with Marvel Legends except with the Thanos wave, and I gave up on DC a while ago. In any case, I'm grateful that I've been allowed to get what I've got, I feel we all take it for granted that we've been allowed to buy these niche goods, some people struggle to eat!

[Emerje]

Transformers is also the only toy line that Hasbro breaks down into solid demographics to investors with clear lines drawn from age range to age range. You don't see them making fancy graphics like they do for Transformers for any other toy line.



Emerje

[RK_Striker_JK_5]

Great article, Wiliam. Yeah, Transformer fans overall have it pretty damned good.

[firefox91]

Absolutely Transformers fans have it better than most! My usual #1 for collecting is GIJoe. When was the last time you saw GIJoe at retail? Or even new product online? That's right, it's completely dead.

Another favorite of mine is Star Wars. What a mess that line has become. Standard figure, Black Series 3.75in, Black Series 6in, rehashed vehicles scaled down that lack detail and paint apps, everything overpriced.

Transformers was usually my #3 to collect, just kind of got them in passing, even as a kid. At this point, they are #1 because I can get new product and that product is usually fantastic. Great updates of classic G1 characters. Close representations of their cartoon appearance. Detailing and engineering that makes your mind spin. And... they are affordable. Sure they have gotten more pricey. But I can still get most figures for under $20 each.

That said, it kind of pains me to see people complain about insignificant things in the line when they could very well have nothing at all.

[o.supreme]

In G1, the kiddie line was all we had. There weren’t more advanced toys.

Jetfire, Sixshot, Quickswitch, etc...would disagree. Also I'd argue that The original Transformers, while for boys (ages 8-12) was *not* a kiddie line (when I hear kiddie I think Playscool Go-Bots or Rescue Bots ages 3-6. Most of them were either more complex, or on par with the RiD15, or Cyberverse line we are getting. You instantly went to the most simplistic of Jumpstarters, forgetting that those were the exception, not the rule.

And yeah, as the title suggests, we Transformers collectors are waaaaaaaaay better off than anyone collecting DC, Marvel or Star Wars figures. A picture is worth a thousand words so let's just check out some pics from my latest visit to Walmart and Toys R Us (sorry, American readers, I don’t mean to open up recent wounds).

I think you've go that backwards, and again, living as our neighbor to the north makes all the difference. Marvel Legends toys, the SW Black Series, and DC equivalents, abound on toy shelves in the stores in my area, not so much TF Generations.

So yeah, we Transformers fans have it a lot better than the rest when it comes to our options of more collector oriented toys.

If you add the word "Canadian" between "we" and "Transformers", I'll buy your argument, otherwise, I just cant, based on the geographical area I live in. I will give this one concession however, it is better to be a Transformers fan, than a MOTU fan, if you are looking for reasonably priced collector quality merchandise.

[ZeroWolf]

In G1, the kiddie line was all we had. There weren’t more advanced toys.

Jetfire, Sixshot, Quickswitch, etc...would disagree. Also I'd argue that The original Transformers, while for boys (ages 8-12) was *not* a kiddie line (when I hear kiddie I think Playscool Go-Bots or Rescue Bots ages 3-6. Most of them were either more complex, or on par with the RiD15, or Cyberverse line we are getting. You instantly went to the most simplistic of Jumpstarters, forgetting that those were the exception, not the rule.

And yeah, as the title suggests, we Transformers collectors are waaaaaaaaay better off than anyone collecting DC, Marvel or Star Wars figures. A picture is worth a thousand words so let's just check out some pics from my latest visit to Walmart and Toys R Us (sorry, American readers, I don’t mean to open up recent wounds).

I think you've go that backwards, and again, living as our neighbor to the north makes all the difference. Marvel Legends toys, the SW Black Series, and DC equivalents, abound on toy shelves in the stores in my area, not so much TF Generations.

So yeah, we Transformers fans have it a lot better than the rest when it comes to our options of more collector oriented toys.

If you add the word "Canadian" between "we" and "Transformers", I'll buy your argument, otherwise, I just cant, based on the geographical area I live in. I will give this one concession however, it is better to be a Transformers fan, than a MOTU fan, if you are looking for reasonably priced collector quality merchandise.

No offence, but jumpstarters aren't the only simplistic ones...look at the throttlebots for instance, and the micromasters...and even the Pretenders were simplistic in their transformations. All the scramble city toys werent complicated either.

Also you're saying that wills point isnt valid because it seems that his situation is opposite but couldn't that be thrown back at you by saying your situation isn't the norm?

If I got the article, the point isn't what was on the shelves but the range and variety of product we tf fans are getting. All ages are being catered for with tf while in the others, certain age brackets are definitely being favoured.

I respect g1 for being the ignition which started the franchise but that doesn't mean it was the best. Not by a long shot.

[zko]

This is a decent and valid point, but I must say the photo is from Canadian TRU apparently? Here in southern US we get decent amounts of TFs but apparently ALL the ones I'm still hunting are in Canadian TRU and nowhere else!

From that photo alone, I'm still hunting the following: PotP HunGurr, Elita1, TLK: legion hound, deluxe Cogman (didn't see him in the photo but assume he is probably there), deluxe Crosshairs...

Not to mention other obvious things like RiD 2015 bludgeon I haven't seen yet on store shelves, and things unreleased so far in my area.

Wonder if Marvel/DC/Star Wars has those problems in my area too... I know TNMT does not, they are hugely stocked every place I visit.

Now, I haven't been getting out as much as I used to to go hunt figures at brick and mortar, but I guess I'm still doing well since those are some of the only ones I'm still hunting (without resorting to online orders)

EDIT:

I should have taken a photo to attach of latest shelf status at local walmart, (target is doing abit better but apparently walmart is afraid of certain toys being stocked now that TRU went under)

They had maybe a couple PotP Optimus and Rodimus leaders, on the top in extra space where younger kids can't reach, (maybe 3 total), 1 studio series deluxe bumblebee in same place, on shelf where kids actually can see below the very top on pegs they had, 4 or so of the prime masters that are like 4-5 dollars, 1 deluxe PotP jazz, a few one steppers from RiD 2015.

That might sound like a decent stocking, but in total it was less than 15 to 20 items, and the very most of them were shelf warmers at best. I must say this is a recent problem at walmart since TRU closed they have stocked badly, but still, with it being my main goto place it is starting to be sad.

[MaverickPrime]

While what you say is completely true, there is just a liiiittle thing you didn't factor in: international distribution.
These shelves you use as an example, are shelves In the United States and/or Canada, for collectors outside of the US, shelves look just like they do for other franchises, if not WORSE.
Remember the sublime Generations 1.0 line? We only got wave one. Thrilling 30th? We only got deluxes from wave 1, no Leaders or Legends or Voyagers other than Blitzwing and Springer(which I literally saw ONE OF EACH in just one store in my city). We didn't get anthing else because the shelves were still overflowing with DotM simplified stuff. Come AoE, we only got the 2 packs to choose from if we wanted the complex toys! Then, a very limited batch of Slash, Lockdown and Drift hit only one retailer which wasn't in most cities in the country, but of course we got EVERY. SINGLE. SIMPLIFIED TOY, you can still find sparky dinos, actually.
Combiner Wars fared better, we got almost every deluxe, except for the second Autobot non-combiners-turned-combiners wave, but we didn't get several Legends, Thundercracker and a very non-important MOTORMASTER.
RiD 2015 was a mainly child-aimed line, but we can all agree that once it got going, it was an absolute BEAST of a line!...which we got only 3 waves worth of Warriors of, as the simplified stuff was-again-overstocked and is *still* warming shelves.
Titans Return began the serious debacle here, with only waves 1 and 3, no more, no less...and not a single individual Titan Master, and guess what! Economy got screwed nation-wide, so everything was about 50% more expensive. TLK we only got wave one, period. Simplified stuff is clogging every shelf of every retailer right now.
Nowadays, SS wave one is everywhere, still with the price hike, but there, we got lucky for once and we even have Thundercracker, albeit with a premium retailer that raises prices even more. Well, guess which retailer is one of only 2 to actually stock PotP?(missing Legends wave 1 of course, I'm never gonna get Skrapnel). The other retailer is Hamley's, apparently, Pretenders are exclusive to them, cheap even, but there are only 3 or 4 Hamley's IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY.
So no, maybe collectors in the US have it golden, but everyone else is pretty screwed. Did I mention that nost countries' Amazon's do NOT sell Repugnus, Blast Off, Nemesis Prime and Punch?

[william-james88]

We are lucky in the lengths Hasbro has gone to both acknowledge and cater to the distinction, but sadly it is let down by distribution/what stores are willing to stock. My Tesco for example, has made a conscious decision to ONLY carry the super kiddy and gimmick stuff. Generations is dead to them, and they have stopped stocking even RID warriors for a very long time.

Pretty much in all the retail stores (Target, Walmart, TRUs don't exist now) around where I live or even other states I visited, the TF aisle and selections are close to nothing.

These shelves you use as an example, are shelves In the United States and/or Canada, for collectors outside of the US, shelves look just like they do for other franchises, if not WORSE.

While talking about distribution woes was inevitable, my point was more to compare the product output meant for mass retail across different franchises and how the target market for Transformers toys seemed to favour collectors moreso than in other franchises. Not that we are the target market specifically, but there are more older kid toys designed than younger kid toys.

UT toys are the bastion of TF toys! Animation accurate, chunky, fun gimmicks, easy (but good looking) transformations, and, just with a few Armada toys as the exception, good articulation...how does that not please both?

I agree and I feel Animated did it very well too. I feel the distinction was more with the movie lines starting in 2007 which was probably due to a hgher complexity inorder to achieve the look of the films where the alt mode kibble wasnt as obvious (unlike UT trilogy or Animated).

For me, G1 toys LOOKED and FELT good. They had chrome, stickers, clear plastic, had accesories etc.

G1 is a pretty big line and not all of them have what you are referring to. Plus, people now associate stickers to cheapness.

Now Cyberverse, I think, is getting there. The warriors look like nice toys. Sadly, the pricing is disgraceful

I agree, my opinion on those toys suffers greatly due to the price. A Gen Legends toy that fully transforms is as expensive as one of their non transforming scouts, shame. And fair warning, those Cybererse warriors are not that great. The only one I found decent was Shockwave and he doesnt even have neck articulation.

He seems more complex than a CW Arielbot, but he appeals to me far, far less.

Yes, he was more complex, and had a better looking alt mode, but your impression about the limitations due to the backpack are correct, it isnt as obvious to pose BB as the rest of the RId line. I still think he is a good toy and I personally preffer him to the aerialbots. Plus, he has clear plastic
[/quote]

Put a G1 Optimus next to a POTP Optimus and tell me which one looks and feels more expensive.

POTP Optimus Prime, easily.

Another favorite of mine is Star Wars. What a mess that line has become. Standard figure, Black Series 3.75in, Black Series 6in, rehashed vehicles scaled down that lack detail and paint apps, everything overpriced.

Transformers was usually my #3 to collect, just kind of got them in passing, even as a kid. At this point, they are #1 because I can get new product and that product is usually fantastic. Great updates of classic G1 characters. Close representations of their cartoon appearance. Detailing and engineering that makes your mind spin. And... they are affordable. Sure they have gotten more pricey. But I can still get most figures for under $20 each.

Yeah, I wanted to just handle the proportion of product aimed at different ages per franchise for now, but when bring in price Transformers fans have it way better as well. Thats why I only collect Transformers as well. I feel I get way more for my money. And the reason Marvel and Star Wars is more expensive is just so they can cover the rather high lincencing fee. So the higher price is not related to deco, or quality.

Most of (G1) were either more complex, or on par with the RiD15, or Cyberverse line we are getting. You instantly went to the most simplistic of Jumpstarters, forgetting that those were the exception, not the rule.

I went with the jumpstarters because they are the closest thing we have to today's one step toys. And in G1, they were in the same line as the other toys, not something seperate. We dont really have something today that would equal a partsforming G1 Starscream. And the G1 toys were simpler and far less articulated to RID 15. RID 15 warriors were more complex than the Combiner Wars deluxes that they shared the pegs with. G1 had its more complex toys, but it was filled to the brim with toys we would see as simplistic today. Optimus Prime is only 5 steps. Anyways, what I wanted to say was more about the comparison of Transformers to other franchises.

I think you've go that backwards, and again, living as our neighbor to the north makes all the difference. Marvel Legends toys, the SW Black Series, and DC equivalents, abound on toy shelves in the stores in my area, not so much TF Generations.

Really? If you find this Iron Spider toy on your next trip, please send me a PM (letting me know the price). He came out a few months ago and I have been having the hardest time tracking him down.

This is a decent and valid point, but I must say the photo is from Canadian TRU apparently?

From that photo alone, I'm still hunting the following: PotP HunGurr, Elita1, TLK: legion hound, deluxe Cogman (didn't see him in the photo but assume he is probably there), deluxe Crosshairs...

The photos were from Toysrus adn Walmart, and the one below with Cogman (who indeed was there) is actually from Walmart:

Did I mention that most countries' Amazon's do NOT sell Repugnus, Blast Off, Nemesis Prime and Punch?

Your right, I cant order them on Amazon.ca either. But at least we can all order it from Amazon.com (except Australia). Thats what I did.

[ZeroWolf]

Well that was a rebuttal and a half will