Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[AcademyofDrX]

This thread is practically unreadable because half the posters are on my "ignore" list. I'm glad that function is still working as designed.

[ShadowKatt]

You argue against escalation, I argue against allowing nazisim to be able to spread any further than it has now.

I do feel that sums up the whole conversation right there. The immovable object vs the unstoppable force. But one point, the third option I keep desperately trying to get out there.

They can be opposed or they can be left to it. If they are unopposed and we follow the chess game analogy, are their numbers more likely to grow or decline?

I have one contention here because I think one thing was left out. As it stands now, their numbers are likely to grow. They are growing, quickly. And I think you are right that we could very well be facing another 1930s germany situation. The one contention I want to bring up though is that this is a wildfire burning out of control. It's feeding off our current sociopolitical situation like kindling. Every protests that turns violent, whether it's because of the police or rioters and vandals, feeds it. Every single civilian that is injured or killed, feeds it. Every time someone comes out and declares BLM a terrorist group, feeds it. Every time someone calls the police or the counterprotesters nazis and fascists, feeds it. You don't put out a fire by feeding it, you put it out by either starving it or smothering it. You seem to be in favor more of the latter than the former and for your sake I wish you luck because if you're wrong and you try to smother it you'll end up on fire yourself, metaphoricly speaking of course.

Refering back to German History, you're advocating for the assassination of the socialist party. Hindsight being 20/20, you seem to believe that you could have beaten them, shot them, hung them, or run them out of town and it would have ended the whole thing. It might have. The people could have also simply ignored them. As Zero was kind enough to educate me on earlier, the Jews seemed to just be a scape goat that everyone latched on to when they put it out there. Imagine if, and just stay with me here, the germans had not bought into the racism and bigotry and simply ignored them. No attending their speeches, no listening to their rallies, and no voting for them. The socialist party never comes into power, Hitler is never installed in the government, the Nazi party never comes to power, and WWII never happens. Defused before it could ever go off, instead of trying to hammer the timebomb and hope it doesn't blow up in your face. That is what we could be doing here.

One of the things I think might be helpful to keep in mind is that rallies and marches happen all the time in the US. I can't speak to the rest of the world but I'm going to assume that as long as it's legal, both explicity and implicity, it probably happens there too. Right wing marches are hardly new, be it for anti-abortion reasons, gun rights, whatever. Most of the time it's completely ignored because if nothing goes wrong it's boring. They never make the newspaper, they never make the 6 o'clock segment, most people are completely unaware and don't pay them a moments notice. Why do you think the KKK, which has been practically dormant for years is now suddenly seeing a massive resurgence? The more people clash, the more property is destroyed, the more lives are lost people are picking sides, just adding more heat to that fire. We stop this, we remove the fuel, they lose the heat and go back to a pathetic smoldering pile of charcoal.

I tell you what though, maybe some of the other people in this thread were right. Maybe I've been too passively neutral. Perhaps it's time to become actively neutral because **** both sides. I'm starting to lean towards the opinion of I don't care who's right or wrong anymore, I want it to end. I'm tired, I'm burned out, and I'm not the only one. If both sides of this don't end up killing each other at the end of this it'll end up with the government stepping in and I'm already too wiped from trying to calm both sides down to stop that one too. That should concern you more than the nazis out there. At least you know what the nazi's are going to do. I can't even begin to predict the house of cats that is the government.

[Skritz]

Passivity and dispassionate neutrality are fundamentally the opposite of human nature, which is driven by emotion. I know this is true and I know these rules apply to myself as well. Human groups, collectively, are always driven by the same petty and/or primal needs which have always been the sole motivating factor of humanity. The need for tribe, the need for stability, for food and power. It is what we are, whether we wish it was different or not.

Even if you decide to not 'pick a side' someone will pick one for you, whether you agree to be on that side or not. That's how it has always worked when things escalate. That doesn't make it right but its what it is.

[G1OptimusPAX]

Considering the current climate, you would think Hasbro would remove PROWL from the image...

You know what? They should. Let Hasbro go 'full stupid' and have them remove Prowl and other police and rescue-themed characters. Let them go all 'cancel culture' on their own work and burn down the entire fanbase in the process, because that's basically what's going down these days. Everything is bad. Everything is cancelled.

These companies are idiots and just churn out the same pre approved message. That's how insincere this is, given they forgot to remove Prowl. There are basically dedicated people inside companies and their twitter division that tell them when its time to post some 'solidarity' thing to get good boy points.

Its all hollow. Its always hollow.

You're right... if Prowl is a murdering, cowardly racist robot,,, then get his B!#@h a$$ out of there too.
See to hell with all of this talking mess in these threads. We ALL know some of you just want to see the world burn, so I feel no need to remove these things, I'd rather give these types of people the revenge they are BEGGING for! So yea, F#@k prowl too

I'd rather not see the world and things I like burn down but I'm at the stage that it has gotten so stupid that I might as well root for everything to just burn down and be turned to ash right now, in an instant, than see everything die a slow burn. If people are going to stand on certain ideas, then fine, go ahead and do it. Burn everything down. Destroy one thing, then another and another because the outrage mob will never be pleased. If Transformers wish to go down this path (and it already has) then it better be ready to become the nuclear wasteland that Disney Star Wars has become.

If Prowl is removed as 'problematic', then please go ahead. Do it. Be the angry mob you want to be, people: at least be honest about what you stand for. Then remove all other police and rescue vehicle-themed Transformers. Oh and then remove every military vehicle because it promote 'American warmongering'. Then remove every animal, because it promote violence against animals. Then remove every ordinary vehicle because it 'promotes pollution'.

See what I mean? Anyone jumping down this rabbit hole choose self destruction.

Like i said (let me be more clear),,, if prowl is a murdering BASTARD... THEN I FEEL NOTHING... Stop using all of your jargon and stick to a point. If you are a murdering bastard, then remove them.
Now you can play and use cartoons all you want, but there is a reason you're typing and using your comfortable words.
No one is above anyone, period.
Go about your day son

[Skritz]

Generally Prowl is more disliked in universe for being a stuck up prick more than anything else, really.

[ZeroWolf]

You argue against escalation, I argue against allowing nazisim to be able to spread any further than it has now.

I do feel that sums up the whole conversation right there. The immovable object vs the unstoppable force. But one point, the third option I keep desperately trying to get out there.

They can be opposed or they can be left to it. If they are unopposed and we follow the chess game analogy, are their numbers more likely to grow or decline?

I have one contention here because I think one thing was left out. As it stands now, their numbers are likely to grow. They are growing, quickly. And I think you are right that we could very well be facing another 1930s germany situation. The one contention I want to bring up though is that this is a wildfire burning out of control. It's feeding off our current sociopolitical situation like kindling. Every protests that turns violent, whether it's because of the police or rioters and vandals, feeds it. Every single civilian that is injured or killed, feeds it. Every time someone comes out and declares BLM a terrorist group, feeds it. Every time someone calls the police or the counterprotesters nazis and fascists, feeds it. You don't put out a fire by feeding it, you put it out by either starving it or smothering it. You seem to be in favor more of the latter than the former and for your sake I wish you luck because if you're wrong and you try to smother it you'll end up on fire yourself, metaphoricly speaking of course.

Refering back to German History, you're advocating for the assassination of the socialist party. Hindsight being 20/20, you seem to believe that you could have beaten them, shot them, hung them, or run them out of town and it would have ended the whole thing. It might have. The people could have also simply ignored them. As Zero was kind enough to educate me on earlier, the Jews seemed to just be a scape goat that everyone latched on to when they put it out there. Imagine if, and just stay with me here, the germans had not bought into the racism and bigotry and simply ignored them. No attending their speeches, no listening to their rallies, and no voting for them. The socialist party never comes into power, Hitler is never installed in the government, the Nazi party never comes to power, and WWII never happens. Defused before it could ever go off, instead of trying to hammer the timebomb and hope it doesn't blow up in your face. That is what we could be doing here.

One of the things I think might be helpful to keep in mind is that rallies and marches happen all the time in the US. I can't speak to the rest of the world but I'm going to assume that as long as it's legal, both explicity and implicity, it probably happens there too. Right wing marches are hardly new, be it for anti-abortion reasons, gun rights, whatever. Most of the time it's completely ignored because if nothing goes wrong it's boring. They never make the newspaper, they never make the 6 o'clock segment, most people are completely unaware and don't pay them a moments notice. Why do you think the KKK, which has been practically dormant for years is now suddenly seeing a massive resurgence? The more people clash, the more property is destroyed, the more lives are lost people are picking sides, just adding more heat to that fire. We stop this, we remove the fuel, they lose the heat and go back to a pathetic smoldering pile of charcoal.

I tell you what though, maybe some of the other people in this thread were right. Maybe I've been too passively neutral. Perhaps it's time to become actively neutral because **** both sides. I'm starting to lean towards the opinion of I don't care who's right or wrong anymore, I want it to end. I'm tired, I'm burned out, and I'm not the only one. If both sides of this don't end up killing each other at the end of this it'll end up with the government stepping in and I'm already too wiped from trying to calm both sides down to stop that one too. That should concern you more than the nazis out there. At least you know what the nazi's are going to do. I can't even begin to predict the house of cats that is the government.

If I may interject a moment, if the government did an armed intervention, it would depend on the make up of the government. If it were completely up to Trump, he'd would come down on the side of the right, as that's where his base is.

Though I think given that the two houses of government are in opposition, I think they'd more likely to waste time going back and forth then actually doing something. Unless I'm mistaken even an executive order can be revoked by the senate (I'm not that good at the inner mechanisms of American politics)

[-Kanrabat-]

Considering the current climate, you would think Hasbro would remove PROWL from the image...

You know what? They should. Let Hasbro go 'full stupid' and have them remove Prowl and other police and rescue-themed characters. Let them go all 'cancel culture' on their own work and burn down the entire fanbase in the process, because that's basically what's going down these days. Everything is bad. Everything is cancelled.

These companies are idiots and just churn out the same pre approved message. That's how insincere this is, given they forgot to remove Prowl. There are basically dedicated people inside companies and their twitter division that tell them when its time to post some 'solidarity' thing to get good boy points.

Its all hollow. Its always hollow.

You're right... if Prowl is a murdering, cowardly racist robot,,, then get his B!#@h a$$ out of there too.
See to hell with all of this talking mess in these threads. We ALL know some of you just want to see the world burn, so I feel no need to remove these things, I'd rather give these types of people the revenge they are BEGGING for! So yea, F#@k prowl too

I'd rather not see the world and things I like burn down but I'm at the stage that it has gotten so stupid that I might as well root for everything to just burn down and be turned to ash right now, in an instant, than see everything die a slow burn. If people are going to stand on certain ideas, then fine, go ahead and do it. Burn everything down. Destroy one thing, then another and another because the outrage mob will never be pleased. If Transformers wish to go down this path (and it already has) then it better be ready to become the nuclear wasteland that Disney Star Wars has become.

If Prowl is removed as 'problematic', then please go ahead. Do it. Be the angry mob you want to be, people: at least be honest about what you stand for. Then remove all other police and rescue vehicle-themed Transformers. Oh and then remove every military vehicle because it promote 'American warmongering'. Then remove every animal, because it promote violence against animals. Then remove every ordinary vehicle because it 'promotes pollution'.

See what I mean? Anyone jumping down this rabbit hole choose self destruction.

Like i said (let me be more clear),,, if prowl is a murdering BASTARD... THEN I FEEL NOTHING... Stop using all of your jargon and stick to a point. If you are a murdering bastard, then remove them.
Now you can play and use cartoons all you want, but there is a reason you're typing and using your comfortable words.
No one is above anyone, period.
Go about your day son

Overquoting to point out that you are either describing Barricade, or some new bad-ass Decepticon.

[Rodimus Knight]

Considering the current climate, you would think Hasbro would remove PROWL from the image...

I'm betting they're taken advantage of the COVID delay on the series to convert Prowl into Bluestreak or Smokescreen for this same reason

[Skritz]

Considering the current climate, you would think Hasbro would remove PROWL from the image...

I'm betting they're taken advantage of the COVID delay on the series to convert Prowl into Bluestreak or Smokescreen for this same reason

Hah I wouldn't put it past people at this point.

[Absolute Zero]

You argue against escalation, I argue against allowing nazisim to be able to spread any further than it has now.

I do feel that sums up the whole conversation right there. The immovable object vs the unstoppable force. But one point, the third option I keep desperately trying to get out there.

They can be opposed or they can be left to it. If they are unopposed and we follow the chess game analogy, are their numbers more likely to grow or decline?

I have one contention here because I think one thing was left out. As it stands now, their numbers are likely to grow. They are growing, quickly. And I think you are right that we could very well be facing another 1930s germany situation. The one contention I want to bring up though is that this is a wildfire burning out of control. It's feeding off our current sociopolitical situation like kindling. Every protests that turns violent, whether it's because of the police or rioters and vandals, feeds it. Every single civilian that is injured or killed, feeds it. Every time someone comes out and declares BLM a terrorist group, feeds it. Every time someone calls the police or the counterprotesters nazis and fascists, feeds it. You don't put out a fire by feeding it, you put it out by either starving it or smothering it. You seem to be in favor more of the latter than the former and for your sake I wish you luck because if you're wrong and you try to smother it you'll end up on fire yourself, metaphoricly speaking of course.

Refering back to German History, you're advocating for the assassination of the socialist party. Hindsight being 20/20, you seem to believe that you could have beaten them, shot them, hung them, or run them out of town and it would have ended the whole thing. It might have. The people could have also simply ignored them. As Zero was kind enough to educate me on earlier, the Jews seemed to just be a scape goat that everyone latched on to when they put it out there. Imagine if, and just stay with me here, the germans had not bought into the racism and bigotry and simply ignored them. No attending their speeches, no listening to their rallies, and no voting for them. The socialist party never comes into power, Hitler is never installed in the government, the Nazi party never comes to power, and WWII never happens. Defused before it could ever go off, instead of trying to hammer the timebomb and hope it doesn't blow up in your face. That is what we could be doing here.

One of the things I think might be helpful to keep in mind is that rallies and marches happen all the time in the US. I can't speak to the rest of the world but I'm going to assume that as long as it's legal, both explicity and implicity, it probably happens there too. Right wing marches are hardly new, be it for anti-abortion reasons, gun rights, whatever. Most of the time it's completely ignored because if nothing goes wrong it's boring. They never make the newspaper, they never make the 6 o'clock segment, most people are completely unaware and don't pay them a moments notice. Why do you think the KKK, which has been practically dormant for years is now suddenly seeing a massive resurgence? The more people clash, the more property is destroyed, the more lives are lost people are picking sides, just adding more heat to that fire. We stop this, we remove the fuel, they lose the heat and go back to a pathetic smoldering pile of charcoal.

I tell you what though, maybe some of the other people in this thread were right. Maybe I've been too passively neutral. Perhaps it's time to become actively neutral because **** both sides. I'm starting to lean towards the opinion of I don't care who's right or wrong anymore, I want it to end. I'm tired, I'm burned out, and I'm not the only one. If both sides of this don't end up killing each other at the end of this it'll end up with the government stepping in and I'm already too wiped from trying to calm both sides down to stop that one too. That should concern you more than the nazis out there. At least you know what the nazi's are going to do. I can't even begin to predict the house of cats that is the government.

I want to point something out I neglected before. Chess players don't plan out moves ten moves in advance. They have an end goal, and they have several rehearsed strategies to get there to counter moves made by the opponent. To claim otherwise is to claim precognition.

German starting WW2 wasn't just because Hitler hated the Jews. He needed a scapegoat for his Nationalism (this is a term thrown about a lot by Trump) to take hold, and turned the country into us vs them. German had a lot of problems. The economy was shyte, millions were out of work, people couldn't afford to buy things. I'm style simplifying things, but basically, in comes Hitler with his made up* "We're descended from Aryan's, the greatest and most pure of all white people. All these other people, they're the problem, they're liars and cheats and rapists and want to take your money and your jobs" rhetoric which was ripe for being sewn into the minds of the Germans because of how **** their country was being treated following WW1. The lesson learned from that is why whenever we go to war now, we don't just go in, disrupt the government, and then peace out and charge the country for the money we spent kicking their cans.

Nazi/Neo Nazi/Fascism is a poison. It's a rot. If you leave it alone or try to ignore it, it festers and will destroy the whole. It must be combated. It must be challenged. To do otherwise will allow the whole to be taken down. And before you wonder what this has to do with Black Lives Matter, think about this; Before Obama, the historic first black president, hate groups were at a low. Measures taken had cut their numbers down.** Once the first black man was elected, they skyrocketed and more and more began showing up. It's not a coincidence. Equality is antithetical to everything Nationalist.

*Current scientific view point is there never was an Aryan race.
**White National gangs were super prevalent in prisons.

Now, I'm gonna and wait for the lock, cause this thread some how seems to have gotten worse while we were trying to behave better.

[macsumner]

No debate, no ridiculous justification of an insecure sub-agenda, just pure love for this action. End of story.

[ShadowKatt]

I want to point something out I neglected before. Chess players don't plan out moves ten moves in advance. They have an end goal, and they have several rehearsed strategies to get there to counter moves made by the opponent. To claim otherwise is to claim precognition.

Well, I'm not precognative, but when I play I tend to try and work out move-countermove about five to ten moves ahead. Obviously, I'm not a speed player, my games tend to take hours, but I generally try to glean any psychology out of my opponent in their mannerisms and their playstyle to predict them. You are right that every player has an end goal and most people have favorite gambits they like to play to get there. But you don't need to be psychic to ask yourself "If I were my opponent and this was the move made, what would I do in return". That's just basic strategy, and I think it serves us well here.

German starting WW2 wasn't just because Hitler hated the Jews. He needed a scapegoat for his Nationalism

I knew that, the question I guess I meant to ask is why is it ALWAYS the Jews? Going back to biblical times, it's always the jews. Doesn't matter what time period, doesn't matter what corner of the globe, it's always them. I suppose you technically answered that already, which is people are stupid and they are convenient, but still, always the same people.

Nazi/Neo Nazi/Fascism is a poison. It's a rot. If you leave it alone or try to ignore it, it festers and will destroy the whole.

You have NO idea how much I want to agree with you on that, because on an emotional level, I do. it's kinda exactly what I've been preaching all this time, that if we keep pushing these violent and hateful rhetorics it is going to tear everything apart. The problem comes in this: Lets say I give you this one. Nazism bad. Round them all up, stick them in a warehouse. Gas 'em all. Bit of poetic justice, right? Then we all move on with our lives. Except we don't. Maybe after the Nazi's we go after the KKK. Round them up too? Have a little front yard barbeque? Afterall, they brought the crosses. That should be good, right? What about the Proud Boys? What about the NRA? What about what about what about. I know we all REALLY hate the "what about" game, but I want an answer to it no matter how trivial you might think it to be. Once we start down that road it will never stop until we end up like the Soviet Union, with one group in power and death or exile to everyone else. The Nazi's did it in Germany. The Soviets did it in Russia. The Chinese are doing it right now with the muslims and anyone that dares oppose the CCP. Are we willing to become the Nazis to get rid of the Nazis? I know, I know, you can point out that they had a racial superiority manifesto and this is ideological, but the Nazis are the only ones that want the Jews dead. The Muslims have been trying to do it for millenia with varying degrees of success and that's certainly not about race.



Edit:

Now, I'm gonna and wait for the lock, cause this thread some how seems to have gotten worse while we were trying to behave better.

I think you're right about this too, and that'll be a shame. I'm not going to convince you to join my position, I don't think you'll manage to convince me to join you, but this discussion? This is a good thing. And it'll be sad when that goes away.

[Burn]

This thread is practically unreadable because half the posters are on my "ignore" list. I'm glad that function is still working as designed.

You're really not missing anything.

[Absolute Zero]

I want to point something out I neglected before. Chess players don't plan out moves ten moves in advance. They have an end goal, and they have several rehearsed strategies to get there to counter moves made by the opponent. To claim otherwise is to claim precognition.

Well, I'm not precognative, but when I play I tend to try and work out move-countermove about five to ten moves ahead. Obviously, I'm not a speed player, my games tend to take hours, but I generally try to glean any psychology out of my opponent in their mannerisms and their playstyle to predict them. You are right that every player has an end goal and most people have favorite gambits they like to play to get there. But you don't need to be psychic to ask yourself "If I were my opponent and this was the move made, what would I do in return". That's just basic strategy, and I think it serves us well here.

German starting WW2 wasn't just because Hitler hated the Jews. He needed a scapegoat for his Nationalism

I knew that, the question I guess I meant to ask is why is it ALWAYS the Jews? Going back to biblical times, it's always the jews. Doesn't matter what time period, doesn't matter what corner of the globe, it's always them. I suppose you technically answered that already, which is people are stupid and they are convenient, but still, always the same people.

Nazi/Neo Nazi/Fascism is a poison. It's a rot. If you leave it alone or try to ignore it, it festers and will destroy the whole.

You have NO idea how much I want to agree with you on that, because on an emotional level, I do. it's kinda exactly what I've been preaching all this time, that if we keep pushing these violent and hateful rhetorics it is going to tear everything apart. The problem comes in this: Lets say I give you this one. Nazism bad. Round them all up, stick them in a warehouse. Gas 'em all. Bit of poetic justice, right? Then we all move on with our lives. Except we don't. Maybe after the Nazi's we go after the KKK. Round them up too? Have a little front yard barbeque? Afterall, they brought the crosses. That should be good, right? What about the Proud Boys? What about the NRA? What about what about what about. I know we all REALLY hate the "what about" game, but I want an answer to it no matter how trivial you might think it to be. Once we start down that road it will never stop until we end up like the Soviet Union, with one group in power and death or exile to everyone else. The Nazi's did it in Germany. The Soviets did it in Russia. The Chinese are doing it right now with the muslims and anyone that dares oppose the CCP. Are we willing to become the Nazis to get rid of the Nazis? I know, I know, you can point out that they had a racial superiority manifesto and this is ideological, but the Nazis are the only ones that want the Jews dead. The Muslims have been trying to do it for millenia with varying degrees of success and that's certainly not about race.



Edit:

Now, I'm gonna and wait for the lock, cause this thread some how seems to have gotten worse while we were trying to behave better.

I think you're right about this too, and that'll be a shame. I'm not going to convince you to join my position, I don't think you'll manage to convince me to join you, but this discussion? This is a good thing. And it'll be sad when that goes away.

You hit the nail on the head about BBQing the KKK. I joke.

Now, some Nazis and KKK and other members of hate groups can eventually see that all their doing is perpetuating the problem of hate. They can, and some have. But it's funny that people try labeling "the left" (like it's a unified thing) and BLM as cults when really, hate groups begin teaching their hate to children. Just like cults. Children don't hate based on color of skin or ethnicity. That's taught as tribalism. Humans should be one tribe, one people. "No race no religion no creed no reason to hate" - Pist (forget the song off hand).

Now I saw you mention China, forgive me, but I'm in a bit of a hurry and didn't read anything. Unfortunately, I am not in a position to do anything about Hong Kong. And with the globalized economy, boycotting doesn't work because you'd literally have nothing but some veggies maybe. I'm sure there are things to be done, but I'm not smart enough or rich enough to do anything about that. I can do something about BLM though. I can support true equality in this country. So I do.

Back to Chess, I'm pretty sure what you mean is you have a few ideas of what to do to get the pieces you want to the positions you want. This is easier if you're very familiar with your opponent and your tendencies. But while chess is a great mental thing and fun to play, it's a not the same. I play a lot of D&D and used to play a lot of online shooters. They're a bit like chess, where you plan out moves in advance, then you remember your teammates are monkeys throwing poop and your enemy is the 3rd battalion of armed infantry. lol

That is to say

also

[Rodimus Knight]

So if we're having this discussion I need to ask this question:

So what we're seeing is people talking about systemic racism in these big cities, most of these cities are in:
Democrat controlled States
The cities are Democrat Controlled
The Mayors are Democrats
The city councils are mostly made of Democrats
The Chiefs (or commissioners) of Police are mostly Democrats
The Police Union supports the Democrats
Yet Republicans are to blame?

I honestly do not understand how you can logically get to that group being blamed when the other group has been in charge in most cases for decades.

In order to get rid of systemic racism, you need to go after the politicians who put the system in place don't you? If you keep the same politicians in place how do you expect to change the system?

[Skritz]

You have NO idea how much I want to agree with you on that, because on an emotional level, I do. it's kinda exactly what I've been preaching all this time, that if we keep pushing these violent and hateful rhetorics it is going to tear everything apart. The problem comes in this: Lets say I give you this one. Nazism bad. Round them all up, stick them in a warehouse. Gas 'em all. Bit of poetic justice, right? Then we all move on with our lives. Except we don't. Maybe after the Nazi's we go after the KKK. Round them up too? Have a little front yard barbeque? Afterall, they brought the crosses. That should be good, right? What about the Proud Boys? What about the NRA? What about what about what about. I know we all REALLY hate the "what about" game, but I want an answer to it no matter how trivial you might think it to be. Once we start down that road it will never stop until we end up like the Soviet Union, with one group in power and death or exile to everyone else.

ShadowKatt is wise and correct in this.

I just want to remind the people in this thread who haven't cowardly hidden behind a 'block' button that you will always be waiting for the chopping block. You'll eventually say the wrong thing or express the wrong opinion as the social climate keep changing. When that happen, you too will be dehumanized and reduced to the same category of those like us thrown into the darkness of being 'the wrong kind of people'. Make no mistake. Every time you throw someone under the bus you accelerate the purity spiral and feed the mob.

You might be part of the 'good people' today, but what about tomorrow? Or next month? Or next year? All it take is one mistake to go from one of the mob, one of the crowd, to be thrown under that bus. No one is ever good enough for the mob. No crime can ever be forgiven. No crime will ever be forgiven because the does not forgive. Sure, first you ban and erase from society the truly vile and nobody bats an eyelash but slowly and surely, that grip will tighten.

One day you WILL say the wrong thing. You'll make the wrong post or thing 'I used to support you but this has gone too far' but it will be too late. The mob will eat you, for it will have deemed you impure and the cycle will repeat itself forever. Don't think you are safe because you agree with the mob right now. That mob will turn on you the very moment you even step out just a little.

[-Kanrabat-]

So if we're having this discussion I need to ask this question:

So what we're seeing is people talking about systemic racism in these big cities, most of these cities are in:
Democrat controlled States
The cities are Democrat Controlled
The Mayors are Democrats
The city councils are mostly made of Democrats
The Chiefs (or commissioners) of Police are mostly Democrats
The Police Union supports the Democrats
Yet Republicans are to blame?

I honestly do not understand how you can logically get to that group being blamed when the other group has been in charge in most cases for decades.

In order to get rid of systemic racism, you need to go after the politicians who put the system in place don't you? If you keep the same politicians in place how do you expect to change the system?

Be careful. This fact could short circuit the average NPC brain. But I'm sure they are in shape enough to do the usual mental gymnastics to avoid directly answering.

[High Command]

So if we're having this discussion I need to ask this question:

So what we're seeing is people talking about systemic racism in these big cities, most of these cities are in:
Democrat controlled States
The cities are Democrat Controlled
The Mayors are Democrats
The city councils are mostly made of Democrats
The Chiefs (or commissioners) of Police are mostly Democrats
The Police Union supports the Democrats
Yet Republicans are to blame?

I honestly do not understand how you can logically get to that group being blamed when the other group has been in charge in most cases for decades.

In order to get rid of systemic racism, you need to go after the politicians who put the system in place don't you? If you keep the same politicians in place how do you expect to change the system?

Be careful. This fact could short circuit the average NPC brain. But I'm sure they are in shape enough to do the usual mental gymnastics to avoid directly answering.

I haven't seen anyone blaming the republicans so far.

As far as I'm concerned both parties are to blame for ignoring the problem for too long.

Donald Trump isn't exactly helping matters but that's not because he's a Republican president, that's because he's a malignant narcissist who's entire presidency is about his ego. Under a normal president of either party some calming words promising token reforms would have been said by now and tensions eased somewhat. If anything his intransigence to form any meaningful dialogue and continued provocations are stirring on the protests even further. Ironically this stance may actually lead to wider reforms are more people who'd usually sit things out, side with the protests.

[Absolute Zero]

So if we're having this discussion I need to ask this question:

So what we're seeing is people talking about systemic racism in these big cities, most of these cities are in:
Democrat controlled States
The cities are Democrat Controlled
The Mayors are Democrats
The city councils are mostly made of Democrats
The Chiefs (or commissioners) of Police are mostly Democrats
The Police Union supports the Democrats
Yet Republicans are to blame?

I honestly do not understand how you can logically get to that group being blamed when the other group has been in charge in most cases for decades.

In order to get rid of systemic racism, you need to go after the politicians who put the system in place don't you? If you keep the same politicians in place how do you expect to change the system?

Be careful. This fact could short circuit the average NPC brain. But I'm sure they are in shape enough to do the usual mental gymnastics to avoid directly answering.

I haven't seen anyone blaming the republicans so far.

As far as I'm concerned both parties are to blame for ignoring the problem for too long.

Donald Trump isn't exactly helping matters but that's not because he's a Republican president, that's because he's a malignant narcissist who's entire presidency is about his ego. Under a normal president of either party some calming words promising token reforms would have been said by now and tensions eased somewhat. If anything his intransigence to form any meaningful dialogue and continued provocations are stirring on the protests even further. Ironically this stance may actually lead to wider reforms are more people who'd usually sit things out, side with the protests.

That's the rub buddy. It doesn't matter if anyone arguing for equality says they're democrats. They are by default in the view of bigots. Which if you stop to think about it, kinda tells you a lot.

They also ignore things like when cities resist what the governor wants, they get overridden. As evidenced with Texas and Arizona and a few other states where the cities wanted to shut down or enforce face mask rules or anything else, and then you have the governors passing rules, without the vote of the state legislature or input from the cities themselves, that no, in fact they can not do anything that would slow the spread of covid-19.

Dealing with people is a lot like Whose Line Is It Anyway, only a lot less funny. Even less funny than the American version.

And when you catch them on a point they can't argue, you're just a libtard anyway comrade.

[-Kanrabat-]

I haven't seen anyone blaming the republicans so far.

Thinking about it, that's true. But obviously, I never, ever heard someone from "the left" blame the Democrats from their own failure.

Also, if it the policies in a Democrat city just don't work, why does the people of that city keep voting Democrat over and over, decades after decades like a beaten wife who can't leave her abusive husband?

Say what you will about Trump, but he was right to ask them to vote Republican for once because "What do you have to lose?"

At least they could shift every 8 years "just because" like in many places. Some may think people would be tired to live Groundhog Day over and over...

[o.supreme]

Because many, many have said something similar and were dead serious. "They" even demanded to cancel Paw Patrol!

Kind of sad. My sons first experience with TF was Rescue Bots. Such a great show for kids...I can't speak to Academy since my son obviously out grew it before then. But it's no doubt sadly on someone's list somewhere to be cancelled. Makes me even more disappointed SF! never realeased proper DVD seasons, just random one offs. This show may well become harder for TF fans to see legally than RiD soon enough.

[william-james88]

So if we're having this discussion I need to ask this question:

So what we're seeing is people talking about systemic racism in these big cities, most of these cities are in:
Democrat controlled States
The cities are Democrat Controlled
The Mayors are Democrats
The city councils are mostly made of Democrats
The Chiefs (or commissioners) of Police are mostly Democrats
The Police Union supports the Democrats
Yet Republicans are to blame?

How is that related to anything? Being racist goes beyond a political party.

[-Kanrabat-]

How is that related to anything? Being racist goes beyond a political party.

Well, duh.
However, too many use the "racist" scapegoat as a way to blame their problems without thinking about the REAL causes. Many problems that the POOR black communities (and other races that live in the same poor conditions mind you) have causes that are way more complicated and deeper than any race issues. But thinking about proper solutions is hard and require effort. And it's so easy to play the blame game and to put yourself in a little group to feel good and blame the "other".

Some problems are rooted in racism, obviously. But many more are rooted in culture, politics, and economics.

I already posted videos that show black people that are either academics, or who grew up in the 'hood. All of them have in common that they have stopped to follow the "tribe" and took the time to think for themselves. Of course, no one have the perfect solution.

But it's not through fear and violence that those solutions will be achieved. Everyone must work as a team, regardless of race, gender, religion, or political affiliation. Unfortunately, it's seem we are in the Tower of Babel.

[High Command]

I haven't seen anyone blaming the republicans so far.

Thinking about it, that's true. But obviously, I never, ever heard someone from "the left" blame the Democrats from their own failure.

Also, if it the policies in a Democrat city just don't work, why does the people of that city keep voting Democrat over and over, decades after decades like a beaten wife who can't leave her abusive husband?

Say what you will about Trump, but he was right to ask them to vote Republican for once because "What do you have to lose?"

At least they could shift every 8 years "just because" like in many places. Some may think people would be tired to live Groundhog Day over and over...

From where I come from the Democrats look like a right wing party anyway and the Republicans a bit further to the right again. What Bernie Sanders talks about would make him a fence sitting centerist in Europe.

Both parties need a good kicking from where I'm sitting. They're both complacent and too detached from what really matters.

[Rodimus Prime]

Being racist goes beyond a political party.

That's true. Unfortunately, some people immediately label an individual or a group of people racist and bigoted as soon as they say anything identifying with being a Republican, much less actually declaring being a Republican. Of course it's similar the other way around, but the offense in question is usually something else.