Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[ZeroWolf]

You know they won't do that. These Hollywood chums see it as too iconic to eliminate.

It's funny that this could be considered "iconic", as Bee was around long before the Bay movies, but I agree with you that they won't do that

Was he, though? He certainly disappeared into obscurity for over a decade after Hasbro lost his name. Like it or not, the first movie is what brought Bumblebee back into prominence and made him a household name for the brand. Before then, Bumblebee was just another name in a long list of Average Joes that only the hardcore fans cared about, with his role having since been replaced by the likes of Cheetor and Hot Shot. And it was the movie version of Bumblebee that became the standout version of the character, then one that made Hasbro boatloads of money. He and his dumb voice gimmick are too valuable to Paramount for them to give up either, especially after the most recent TF movie they made was specifically for him and his gimmick. Like it or not, we're stuck with him being a poor man's E.T. in these movies all thanks to one Mr. Steven Spielberg.

Not enough people credit Spielberg with that, they'd rather just blame bay

[Emerje]

Interesting that he's parked next to red and white vans. I doubt that's a coincidence, but it's probably more of an Easter egg than confirmation of Ratchet and Ironhide being in the movie, maybe.

Emerje

[transformers_va]

Was he, though? He certainly disappeared into obscurity for over a decade after Hasbro lost his name. Like it or not, the first movie is what brought Bumblebee back into prominence and made him a household name for the brand. Before then, Bumblebee was just another name in a long list of Average Joes that only the hardcore fans cared about, with his role having since been replaced by the likes of Cheetor and Hot Shot. And it was the movie version of Bumblebee that became the standout version of the character, then one that made Hasbro boatloads of money. He and his dumb voice gimmick are too valuable to Paramount for them to give up either, especially after the most recent TF movie they made was specifically for him and his gimmick. Like it or not, we're stuck with him being a poor man's E.T. in these movies all thanks to one Mr. Steven Spielberg.

Yes, he was most definitely around, granted not in the same shining spotlight that he is now

I don't understand the focus he gets these days.. he was a crappy character in G1, and is still a crappy character (even worse is he's lost his Bug charm, and is now a POS Camaro). I don't recall anyone in the 80s saying, "Man, Bee is my favourite character"... almost EVERY character was cooler/better than he was

[Sabrblade]

Yes, he was most definitely around, granted not in the same shining spotlight that he is now

Oh? Where was he during Beast Wars? Beast Machines? Robots in Disguise '01? Armada? Energon? Cybertron? As in, where the brand's main focus was before the movies.

I don't understand the focus he gets these days.. he was a crappy character in G1, and is still a crappy character (even worse is he's lost his Bug charm, and is now a POS Camaro). I don't recall anyone in the 80s saying, "Man, Bee is my favourite character"... almost EVERY character was cooler/better than he was

Simple. Spielberg wanted a mascot, a focal kid-appeal character for his "A boy and his car" premise for the first movie, one that they could milk for all its worth in a foolhardy attempt to recapture the magic of E.T.'s whimsical appeal. Since the kid in the movie was gonna be named Witwicky, they chose the name of the Autobot who was the original Witwicky boy's best friend.

[-Kanrabat-]

I can understand the "Bumblebee fatigue". But I'm pretty damn happy that Baybulbee is a thing because thanks to that mascot, Transformers is now more popular than ever and it brought at least two new generations of fans.

Thus ensuring the vitality of the brand for years to come.

Also, it's thanks to Baybulbee that we had two trilogies in a row celebrating G1, and much more to come.

[ZeroWolf]

I can understand the "Bumblebee fatigue". But I'm pretty damn happy that Baybulbee is a thing because thanks to that mascot, Transformers is now more popular than ever and it brought at least two new generations of fans.

Thus ensuring the vitality of the brand for years to come.

Also, it's thanks to Baybulbee that we had two trilogies in a row celebrating G1, and much more to come.

This also never gets the credit it deserves, 07 give the franchise a much longer reach.

[-Kanrabat-]

This also never gets the credit it deserves, 07 give the franchise a much longer reach.

THIS is the movie that pulled me back into Transformers. I'm a 1980's child but it's the 2007 Bay movie that kicked me "THIS IS SPARTA" style into the TF Rabbit Hole.

And I'm pretty damn sure I'm not the only one.

[blackeyedprime]

Simple. Spielberg wanted a mascot, a focal kid-appeal character for his "A boy and his car" premise for the first movie, one that they could milk for all its worth in a foolhardy attempt to recapture the magic of BABY WEE WEE. whimsical appeal.[/quote]


Fixed it XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuTJC84yekw

[transformers_va]

I can understand the "Bumblebee fatigue". But I'm pretty damn happy that Baybulbee is a thing because thanks to that mascot, Transformers is now more popular than ever and it brought at least two new generations of fans.

Thus ensuring the vitality of the brand for years to come.

Also, it's thanks to Baybulbee that we had two trilogies in a row celebrating G1, and much more to come.

This also never gets the credit it deserves, 07 give the franchise a much longer reach.

Really? So are you saying that it was specifically the Bay movies that did this, or could it be that the Transformers already have a huge fanbase, and any movies would have done this?

[-Kanrabat-]

I can understand the "Bumblebee fatigue". But I'm pretty damn happy that Baybulbee is a thing because thanks to that mascot, Transformers is now more popular than ever and it brought at least two new generations of fans.

Thus ensuring the vitality of the brand for years to come.

Also, it's thanks to Baybulbee that we had two trilogies in a row celebrating G1, and much more to come.

This also never gets the credit it deserves, 07 give the franchise a much longer reach.

Really? So are you saying that it was specifically the Bay movies that did this, or could it be that the Transformers already have a huge fanbase, and any movies would have done this?

I don't think that the fanbase was that huge before 2007. It was pretty nice, but it could have been bigger. Then the 2007 movie happened and it was MAGICAL enough to revitalise the franchise into a new prosperity, like Beast Wars did back then.

Hasbro tried it a few more times for other brands like GI Joe but they couldn't recreate what the 2007 Bay movie did.

I find hilarious that to this day, there's still "Bay haters" who just refuse to acknowledge this fact.

[Sabrblade]

Fixed it XD

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuTJC84yekw

Well, since you're the one who finds "whimsical appeal" in that toy, who am I to stop you from liking it?

[transformers_va]

I don't think that the fanbase was that huge before 207. It was pretty nice, but it could have been bigger. Then the 2007 movie happened and it was MAGICAL enough to revitalise the franchise into a new prosperity, like Beast Wars did back then.

Yes, it's inevitable that with new generations of ppl being born, the fanbase grew, but hard to judge due to the infancy of the internet. It's interesting that the site we're on was created -7 years BEFORE Bayverse

Hasbro tried it a few more times for other brands like GI Joe but they couldn't recreate what the 2007 Bay movie did.

Again, can be attributed to the existing fanbase, not Bay specifically

I find hilarious that to this day, there's still "Bay haters" who just refuse to acknowledge this fact.

Because it's NOT a fact

A few reasons I dislike (not hate) Bayverse:

• No real character developmemt
• More focus on humans than the Transformers
• Pathetic robot design (I’m from a highly intelligent robot species, but don’t have feet?!?! see below) Many times can't even make out where the robot's head actually is located
• Using existing character's names, just because you like them, with complete disregard to the existing fans.. ya know, the ones who **** supported the franchise BEFORE Bay

I'm a brillo pad:

I've got no feet:

[-Kanrabat-]

Are the movies garbage?
Yes.
Are the bots just a pite of random scrapmetal thrown into a blender?
Yes.
Did the movies brought more fans than ever?
Also yes.

Checkmate atheist.

[Razorbeast88]

Are the movies garbage?
Yes.
Are the bots just a pite of random scrapmetal thrown into a blender?
Yes.
Did the movies brought more fans than ever?
Also yes.

Checkmate atheist.

Gonna have to agree with this one

[transformers_va]

Are the bots just a pite of random scrapmetal thrown into a blender?

Hahaha can't/won't disagree on this

Are the movies garbage?

There were some redeeming qualities, so I can't agree that they were complete garbage.. but they could have been a million times better than Bay

Did the movies brought more fans than ever?

Can't say that for certain, unless you have the metrics of before and after.. again hard because of the internet's infancy

[cloudballoon]

Did the movies brought more fans than ever?

Can't say that for certain, unless you have the metrics of before and after.. again hard because of the internet's infancy[/quote]

How about using toy sales figures as the metrics?

I've always been a model kit builder, into Gundam, Macross and Sci-Fi (Star Wars, etc.) But TF? I stopped collecting after G1 because I stopped watching TF shows on TV. But I've always know about new TF toys because I read Japanese toy mags for decades, never took enough an interest. Too "kid-focus" in appearance.

The Bay movies brought me back interest in buying TF toys however. Not because they look cool (took me around DOTM to appreciate its "mechanical alien" look, not because they look anything like the G1 I loved), but because of the complex engineering in the toys - that Leader class OP completely sold me over.

So I'm sure Bayverse brought back a LOT of people like me that grew up and stopped collecting and back into hard-core fans again. Just like Marvel/DC movieverse, how many moviegoers actually kept buying their comics but because of the movies, their IP turned into media jugernauts that they are today? Just look at the market penetration TF got now vs. pre-Bay.

I understand and agree that the Bay movies' are mostly crap in its storytelling and juvenile jokes & sexism, stupid bot designs and whathaveyou for most long-time fans. But in terms of bring back or creating new fans, and toy buyers, the contribution is immense. That's worth *something* for Hasbro right?

[Barricade.it]

Very clean end mean look. Quite cool.

[blackeyedprime]

As for new fans due to Bay my son wouldn't even watch the bumblebee film because of how bad the bay ones were (I only watched it due to laika). I subjected him to 07 at imax but realised I didn't want him watching that kinda crap as a lot of it was inappropriate (and pretty much got worse). He did however really enjoy prime which is kinda baynus based though he favors armada/energon. There's been plenty of media to bring in new fans since g1 and that will continue even if the live actions continue to be terrible but the baynus approach lost a lot of fans too and some of them might never find their way back.

[cloudballoon]

As for new fans due to Bay my son wouldn't even watch the bumblebee film because of how bad the bay ones were (I only watched it due to laika). I subjected him to 07 at imax but realised I didn't want him watching that kinda crap as a lot of it was inappropriate (and pretty much got worse). He did however really enjoy prime which is kinda baynus based though he favors armada/energon. There's been plenty of media to bring in new fans since g1 and that will continue even if the live actions continue to be terrible but the baynus approach lost a lot of fans too and some of them might never find their way back.

Being a fan doesn't have to be "all of nothing", does it? I don't enjoy the Bay movies, but I buy the movie toys because I love the engineering of them. I actually enjoy the looks of the Bayverse toys more than the on-screen junk metals because the engineering/transforming have to physically makes sense. And that's what Bay gave me specifically - the joy of handling toys with intricate transformation (at least until DOTM). Compare that to the Generations line. The engineering/design philosophies of these 2 lines are very different, and I appreciate both.

I don't understand why people have to "never find their way back" to the TF franchise because of a few dumb, terrible, extremely bad movies. Don't be like those "GIVE ME MY 2 HOURS BACK!!!!!! I WOULD RATE IT 0/10 on IMDB IF I CAN!" crowd. That 2 hours to me are never THAT important to begin with it if I'm going to the movies (vs., say, R&D on robotics). I never have high expectations for popcorn blockbusters. I just laugh it off rather than get too angry with those crap, just not worth getting high blood pressure over.

Circling back to my original question.

TF to me, and I'm pretty sure for Hasbro too, are never about the TV/movies first. It's about the TOYS.
Why walk away from it all because of the movies?

Besides, Hasbro smart enough to never put all their eggs into one basket. It's perfectly fine to never touch any Bay-related movies & toys. But Generations (aka "The Good Stuff" for me) never stopped during the Bay era. Why "never find their way back" when something good like the Generations toy line is worth collecting? That's sad to me.

[-Kanrabat-]

Cloudballon, I couldn't have said it better myself.

[transformers_va]

TF to me, and I'm pretty sure for Hasbro too, are never about the TV/movies first. It's about the TOYS.

The toys rely HEAVILY on the media, whether it be movies, TV, comics, video games, etc., so to disassociate doesn't make sense. When crappy movies are actually turning fans away from the franchise, that is a problem that Hasbro should not ignore. I want to see Transformers continue for decades and generations to come, and it annoys me that stupid Hollywood/Hasbro decision making puts that into jeopardy

[-Kanrabat-]

TF to me, and I'm pretty sure for Hasbro too, are never about the TV/movies first. It's about the TOYS.

The toys rely HEAVILY on the media, whether it be movies, TV, comics, video games, etc., so to disassociate doesn't make sense. When crappy movies are actually turning fans away from the franchise, that is a problem that Hasbro should not ignore. I want to see Transformers continue for decades and generations to come, and it annoys me that stupid Hollywood/Hasbro decision making puts that into jeopardy

However, the fans that are being "turned away" by the Bay movies must be a minority of a minority.

Proof is in the MONEY.

[transformers_va]

However, the fans that are being "turned away" by the Bay movies must be a minority of a minority.

Proof is in the MONEY.

I agree, proof is definitely in the money. Transformers (2007) brought in roughly 320 million in North America, but fell to roughly 130 million for TLK.. doesn't strike me as "a minority of a minority"

[-Kanrabat-]

However, the fans that are being "turned away" by the Bay movies must be a minority of a minority.

Proof is in the MONEY.

I agree, proof is definitely in the money. Transformers (2007) brought in roughly 320 million in North America, but fell to roughly 130 million for TLK.. doesn't strike me as "a minority of a minority"

Y U just look at the movies while conveniently ignoring the toys and merchs sales?

[transformers_va]

Y U just look at the movies while conveniently ignoring the toys and merchs sales?

Because this thread/discussion is about about the movies