Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby Tyrenol » Tue Nov 16, 2010 6:47 am

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I remember a long time ago when that Stunticon was called "Dragstrip."

Hey. I'm for "political correctness" in the efforts of keeping adult doujins about girls 9 years or younger off the web where they don't belong. But the least the people in power should do is be a bit more creative. \_(-_-)_/
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby Dr. Caelus » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:22 am

Jack_Cade wrote:The only difference between the UK and the US is that we've cottoned onto the fact that it's a word charged with hate and discrimination, while US peeps apparently think it's OK so long as you use it in a light-hearted fashion. Sure, go ahead and keep using it as long as you think it's OK that your actions contribute towards people feeling excluded, depressed and sometimes even suicidal. Pretend it's their problem and not yours.

So to be clear, I'm not personally 'offended' when I hear someone call someone else a spastic; I just think "What an utter prick."



I think this is the implied attitude that has a lot of Americans offended in this thread.

It's upsetting to have people come our of left-field and derogate you for doing something you've done for years, having had no reason to believe it was wrong.

The reaction to that sort of dissonance is naturally going to be... ugly.



Edit: Also, Dragstrip? Not the most 'family-friendly' word ever. Not surprised they were trying to get away from it.
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby Counterpunch » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:36 am

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Caelus wrote:
Jack_Cade wrote:The only difference between the UK and the US is that we've cottoned onto the fact that it's a word charged with hate and discrimination, while US peeps apparently think it's OK so long as you use it in a light-hearted fashion. Sure, go ahead and keep using it as long as you think it's OK that your actions contribute towards people feeling excluded, depressed and sometimes even suicidal. Pretend it's their problem and not yours.

So to be clear, I'm not personally 'offended' when I hear someone call someone else a spastic; I just think "What an utter prick."



I think this is the implied attitude that has a lot of Americans offended in this thread.

It's upsetting to have people come our of left-field and derogate you for doing something you've done for years, having had no reason to believe it was wrong.

The reaction to that sort of dissonance is naturally going to be... ugly.



Edit: Also, Dragstrip? Not the most 'family-friendly' word ever. Not surprised they were trying to get away from it.


All good points.

But I do think that "Dragstrip" is a perfectly acceptable term. I mean, that IS the word used for the place where drag racing occurs.
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby Rated X » Tue Nov 16, 2010 8:37 am

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This is so RETARTED !!! And I said retarted on purpose because I want to make a point. When I use the word "retarted" I am not trying to insult children with special needs. I am simply using it as a figure of speech that means "STUPID" !!! Can we please stop being so damn politically correct ??? Ever since Janet Jackson had her "wardrobe malfunction" at the Superbowl (which I enjoyed) their has been a outcry for censorship. This is almost as dumb as the HA Jazz package complaint that it promotes alcohol and gambling.
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby Jelze Bunnycat » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:12 am

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Caelus wrote:Edit: Also, Dragstrip? Not the most 'family-friendly' word ever. Not surprised they were trying to get away from it.


You try fitting a name trademarked as "Decepticon Drag Strip" and keeping it even legible from a distance. ;) Hasbro had no problem with the Universe Special Edition...
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby Alex Jones » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:19 am

political correctness gone awry.
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby kirbenvost » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:19 am

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MYoung23 wrote:As an African American I can tell that the N-word has always been a demeaning and insulting term. It was never neutral even though it was a corruption of the word Negro.

The fact that people here had to go to wikipedia and didn't know this is a damn shame.


I didn't need to go to Wikipedia myself, and that's what I was trying to explain, sorry if it didn't come through in my posts.

Caelus wrote:Edit: Also, Dragstrip? Not the most 'family-friendly' word ever. Not surprised they were trying to get away from it.


Only if you're going to have a dirty mind about it. :P

Counterpunch wrote:
But I do think that "Dragstrip" is a perfectly acceptable term. I mean, that IS the word used for the place where drag racing occurs.


Yep.

Soo....Hasbro decided not to release this in the UK, or have none of the PCCs been released? Kind of a lame solution to the problem, no?
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby Mykltron » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:30 am

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MYoung23 wrote:As an African American I can tell that the N-word has always been a demeaning and insulting term. It was never neutral even though it was a corruption of the word Negro.


Where you around in the days of slavery or do you have references to back this statement up? If you do I'll admit I'm wrong but etymonline says: 'the word in some cases could be used without deliberate insult.'

kjeevah wrote:And for those of you who mistakenly believe that this is only a UK term, ADAPT is an american disability rights organisation:

When people say 'you're such a spaz' they're talking about someone with cerebral palsy," says Nancy Salandra from Philadelphia ADAPT. "People use it all the time but they are wrong. It's part of the language now, like retard, but it doesn't make it right."

"I would think that anybody in the disability community would see it as offensive," says Babs Johnson of National ADAPT. "It would be looked upon as someone having a fit or seizure or something like that. Body movements that you're not able to control."


Good quotes. Thanks for that!

Rated X wrote:This is so RETARTED !!! And I said retarted on purpose because I want to make a point. When I use the word "retarted" I am not trying to insult children with special needs. I am simply using it as a figure of speech that means "STUPID" !!! Can we please stop being so damn politically correct ??? Ever since Janet Jackson had her "wardrobe malfunction" at the Superbowl (which I enjoyed) their has been a outcry for censorship. This is almost as dumb as the HA Jazz package complaint that it promotes alcohol and gambling.


I see people are still being closed-minded :roll: Does the fact that a charity (The Spastic's Society) had to change its name because of the high use of spastic, spaz, spazz, spack and spacker as insults mean nothing to you?
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby Neurie » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:20 am

Rated X wrote:This is so RETARTED !!! And I said retarted on purpose because I want to make a point. When I use the word "retarted" I am not trying to insult children with special needs. I am simply using it as a figure of speech that means "STUPID" !!! Can we please stop being so damn politically correct ??? Ever since Janet Jackson had her "wardrobe malfunction" at the Superbowl (which I enjoyed) their has been a outcry for censorship. This is almost as dumb as the HA Jazz package complaint that it promotes alcohol and gambling.


Humm retarded huh? A slowing or impairment leading lack of developement/progress usually associated with machinary.

Yet another word which has been turned in to slang to be belittling and disparidging of people with mental health issues.

The actual toy will be avaiable on import througha few dealers so there will still be avenues for this product in Europe/Oceana regions.

Id be suprised if Hasbro doesnt take the hit and rename it.

PCCs dont sell fantastically in the UK, the two packs are hard to find and the ultras are gathering dust in lots of stores unless theyre on sale.
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby kjeevah » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:24 am

Rated X wrote:This is so RETARTED !!! And I said retarted on purpose because I want to make a point. When I use the word "retarted" I am not trying to insult children with special needs. I am simply using it as a figure of speech that means "STUPID" !!! Can we please stop being so damn politically correct ??? Ever since Janet Jackson had her "wardrobe malfunction" at the Superbowl (which I enjoyed) their has been a outcry for censorship. This is almost as dumb as the HA Jazz package complaint that it promotes alcohol and gambling.


Well done, you just said the only thing worse than 'spastic'.

It doesn't matter even one tiny slightest bit whether or not you are trying to insult people with learning difficulties. You managed it regardless of your intent. Your intentions do not matter. The feelings of the people you offend do.

According to disabled people, the term that they find the most offensive above all else is 'retard'. The second most offensive is 'spastic'. This is a fact, and your intentions do not change it.

(Source: BBC Ouch! 2003)

If you have a disability your life is already beset with enough difficulty and prejudice without having to deal with ignorance like this.
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby It Is Him » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:28 am

Razorclaw0000 wrote:Or Lockdown to former convicts? Or Highbrow to people with large foreheads? Or Erector to people with ED? Or Windbreaker to people with irritable bowel syndrome?

Shall I go on?


Wow, I'd wish my girlfriend would call me Windbreaker, but instead she just calls me a Lemon. :D
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby leokearon » Tue Nov 16, 2010 10:53 am

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Does this mean that the PCC Stunticons wouldn't be released over here at all, or just not with the offensive name
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby Pretender Skywarp » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:05 am

leokearon wrote:Does this mean that the PCC Stunticons wouldn't be released over here at all, or just not with the offensive name


Not at all, in line with H'UK's usual contempt for the UK market.
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby Name_Violation » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:11 am

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huh, turns out my cats name in an insult... (my cat is named spaz, and nick named spaztic)

seriously people, quit bein up tight. it was a misunderstanding, hasbro admitted it was "their bad", whats next? the fact the toys come in colors offends the color blind?

quit being so sensitive people.
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby Wasp-shot23 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:12 am

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I understand that in the US the term "spastic" is largely harmless, but in my corner of the world (Great Britain) the word is used by children (remember, the people who this product is made for) in a derogatory sense to those with mental and physical handicaps.
There is no doubt in my mind that hasbro had no malicious intent when this figure was named, just a lack of insight. That does not however detract from the fact that where I live and many other places outside of the land of the free and the home of the brave, that word is offensive and used to victimise vulnerable members of society.
Those who are ignorant to it's European usage should have respect to the views of others and so should hasbro; transformers have been the biggest selling toys (in toys r us stores) in the uk for more than twenty years, so I think that hasbro should pay far more attention to the UK Market And the habits of those who contribute to it by buying their products. These people I speak of are again children, but because they are younger than us does not mean they are more pure or innocent than us, children are far more ignorant to to the true meaning of words and so corrupt them and turn them into offensive terms.
I reiterate my point: kids in the UK use spaz as an offensive word, there is no harmless use of it in the UK, the product in question is on sale to these children and so will offend THEM.
The product name should be changed not just simply taken off order sheets, hasbro needs to pay more attention to it's target audiences (kids and us fans).
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby Wasp-shot23 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:19 am

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kjeevah wrote:
Rated X wrote:This is so RETARTED !!! And I said retarted on purpose because I want to make a point. When I use the word "retarted" I am not trying to insult children with special needs. I am simply using it as a figure of speech that means "STUPID" !!! Can we please stop being so damn politically correct ??? Ever since Janet Jackson had her "wardrobe malfunction" at the Superbowl (which I enjoyed) their has been a outcry for censorship. This is almost as dumb as the HA Jazz package complaint that it promotes alcohol and gambling.


You can't even spell "retarded". Look who's talking.
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby Seibertron » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:22 am

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Some people on both sides of this argument aren't doing a good job at being understanding to our cultural language differences.

As I already said, usage of the word "spastic" in the UK is comparable to usage of the word "fag" here in the States. "spastic", while it originated as a medical term, took on a different meaning here in the US which is more comparable to dork or geek, generally implying clumsiness or "bouncing off the walls" (perhaps hyperactivity) or even "overreacting".

The US people should acknowledge that it is an offensive word in the UK just as the UK people should acknowledge that the word means something different in our countries and shouldn't take offense to our cultural differences. It is an offensive word to the UK folks despite that it means something totally different here in the States, a company selling a product in the UK should be aware of this and sensitive to the local cultures either by having a character with a name that doesn't offend in other countries or by having the character named differently in other countries.

Do the UK people here feel that they should stop calling cigarettes "fags" because it's an offensive or politically incorrect term in the US?
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby Wasp-shot23 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:27 am

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Seibertron wrote:Man both sides of this argument aren't doing a good job at being understanding.

As I already said, usage of the word "spastic" in the UK is comparable to usage of the word "fag" here in the States. "spastic", while it originated as a medical term, took on a different meaning here in the US which is more comparable to dork or geek, generally implying clumsiness or "bouncing off the walls" (perhaps hyperactivity) or even "overreacting".

The US people should acknowledge that it is an offensive word in the UK just as the UK people should acknowledge that the word means something different in our countries and shouldn't take offense to our cultural differences. It is an offensive word to the UK folks despite that it means something totally different here in the States, a company selling a product in the UK should be aware of this and sensitive to the local cultures either by having a character with a name that doesn't offend in other countries or by having the character named differently in other countries.

Do the UK people here feel that they should stop calling cigarettes "fags" because it's an offensive or politically incorrect term in the US?


that's a very good point. But something called " fag" isn't going to be on sale to
children.
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby Seibertron » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:28 am

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To further illustrate to the UK folks how the word "spastic" has taken on a different meaning in the US, here's some text from Wikipedia regarding the word **** (a kind of meatball) and fags (slang for "cigarette") in the UK:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faggot_(slang)

Wikipedia.org wrote:Originally confined to the United States,[8] the use of the words "fag" and "****" as epithets for gay men has spread elsewhere in the English-speaking world, but the extent to which they are used in this sense has varied outside the context of imported US popular culture. The words "queer", "homo", and "poof" are all still in common use in the UK, and some other countries, as pejorative terms for gay men. The words "fag" and "****", moreover, still have other meanings in the British Isles and other Commonwealth societies. In particular, "****" is still used to refer to a kind of meatball, and "fag" is common as a slang word for "cigarette".
Use of fag and **** as the term for an effeminate man has become understood as an Americanism in British English, primarily due to entertainment media use in films and television series imported from the United States. When Labour MP Bob Marshall-Andrews was overheard supposedly using the word in a bad-tempered informal exchange with a straight colleague in the House of Commons lobby in November 2005, it was considered to be homophobic abuse.[14][15]
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby same138 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:31 am

Wasp-shot 23, you beat me to it, "Retarted" indeed! And he mispelt it in capitals so we couldn't miss it!

I picked this little guy up yesterday in Argos in Glasgow under his orange/white "Leadfoot" deco, and he is pretty cool if a bit gaudy. Hasbro don't seem to be giving him much to go on in the name department, do you think they're trying to give him a complex?

PS if any of my fellow Scots are interested Argos had over twenty 2 packs in stock yesterday, Icepick, Sledge and Leadfoot were the ones in stock (and they're reduced to £7!).
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby Wasp-shot23 » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:35 am

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Seibertron wrote:To further illustrate to the UK folks how the word "spastic" has taken on a different meaning in the US, here's some text from Wikipedia regarding the word **** (a kind of meatball) and fags (slang for "cigarette") in the UK:

Originally confined to the United States,[8] the use of the words "fag" and "****" as epithets for gay men has spread elsewhere in the English-speaking world, but the extent to which they are used in this sense has varied outside the context of imported US popular culture. The words "queer", "homo", and "poof" are all still in common use in the UK, and some other countries, as pejorative terms for gay men. The words "fag" and "****", moreover, still have other meanings in the British Isles and other Commonwealth societies. In particular, "****" is still used to refer to a kind of meatball, and "fag" is common as a slang word for "cigarette".
Use of fag and **** as the term for an effeminate man has become understood as an Americanism in British English, primarily due to entertainment media use in films and television series imported from the United States. When Labour MP Bob Marshall-Andrews was overheard supposedly using the word in a bad-tempered informal exchange with a straight colleague in the House of Commons lobby in November 2005, it was considered to be homophobic abuse.[14][15]

Again, the point is moot, but we're not gonna get a figure called "slag" anytime soon. If hasbro
paid attention to that then why not "spastic", a word which has a meaning far more clear to
children than "slag" does.
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby Seibertron » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:40 am

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Wasp-shot23 wrote:that's a very good point. But something called "fag" isn't going to be on sale to children.


Or to adults for that matter most likely. I'm assuming that the words "fag" or "fags" doesn't appear on cigarette packaging in the UK. I totally agree with the UK people ... but for their country. Your use of the word "spastic" doesn't mean that we can't use the word as we use it here in the States just as our usage of the word "fag" doesn't mean you guys have to stop using it for cigarettes in the UK.

It is interesting that the UK still uses the word "fag" for cigarettes despite knowing from movies and such that it's a slur in the US through watching our movies and television yet several UK folks here are demanding we stop using the word spastic here in the US despite many if not most of us not knowing it was an offensive word to the UK until last week (Hasbro included).

I also wanted to comment on the FoxNews.com link that appeared a few posts back in this topic. It's Fox News (definitely not "fair and balanced" as their motto would imply) and it's an article about a lady who is using the word in a manner similar to the UK's usage, which is not how we use the word in the US.

When I hear the word "spastic", you know what comes to mind? Looney Toons Tasmanian Devil. I went to Google this term with Tasmanian Devil, and lo and behold, Taz has a descendant in a cartoon named "Spaz B Wilde".

http://www.kidsturncentral.com/topics/tvmovies/loonatics3.htm

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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby Counterpunch » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:45 am

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Seibertron wrote:Man both sides of this argument aren't doing a good job at being understanding.


Except me.
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby Seibertron » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:47 am

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Wasp-shot23 wrote:Again, the point is moot, but we're not gonna get a figure called "slag" anytime soon. If hasbro paid attention to that then why not "spastic", a word which has a meaning far more clear to children than "slag" does.


I didn't realize "slag" was an offensive term to anyone, other than possibly in the fictional Beast Wars universe.

It was my understanding that they lost the trademark to the word and that the rest was "urban legend" caused by fans.

Or I could be wrong: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&clie ... n&ct=title
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Re: Transformers Spastic name debate makes Scottish news papers weird section

Postby Pretender Skywarp » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:48 am

Seibertron wrote:Man both sides of this argument aren't doing a good job at being understanding.

As I already said, usage of the word "spastic" in the UK is comparable to usage of the word "fag" here in the States. "spastic", while it originated as a medical term, took on a different meaning here in the US which is more comparable to dork or geek, generally implying clumsiness or "bouncing off the walls" (perhaps hyperactivity) or even "overreacting".

The US people should acknowledge that it is an offensive word in the UK just as the UK people should acknowledge that the word means something different in our countries and shouldn't take offense to our cultural differences. It is an offensive word to the UK folks despite that it means something totally different here in the States, a company selling a product in the UK should be aware of this and sensitive to the local cultures either by having a character with a name that doesn't offend in other countries or by having the character named differently in other countries.

Do the UK people here feel that they should stop calling cigarettes "fags" because it's an offensive or politically incorrect term in the US?


Nicley put Boss, this links in with my comment a few pages back about wanting to see the bio.

Hopefully that will give us some insight over Hasbro USA's intent for the name.
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