Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

News Credits: 2 · by **Convotron** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:09 pm

moneycon wrote:You think that when maketoys showed their complete not bruticus picture and 90% of the preorders at bbts(for the other one) cancelled, it wasn't an attempt to let people know that their was another version coming out...possibly better...possibly cheaper....a little heads up so people will take a wait and see approach and save 100 bucks at the same time? Not only is that public...but it's active. If they weren't smart enough to know it would work, then they surely will the next time.

I don't know if I'm reading your sentence right but I'll make an attempt to respond by saying that if MakeToys really wanted to compete head to head against TFC, they would have leaked photos of their combiner's WiP figures soon after TFC made their combiner known to the public.

People who have the financial means to buy a $600 combiner, who are willing to risk dealing with possible QC issues due to TFC's good but not great track record, and like the idea of a larger Devastator are probably going to consider buying the Hercules combiner.

People who are reluctant to spend $600 or more on a combiner, who are hoping that MakeToys' connection to FansProject will give greater assurance of good QC, and who prefer a combiner that is more in scale with their existing combiner sets are probably going to consider buying the Build combiner.

News Credits: 3 · by **Kibble** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:50 pm

Convotron wrote:I don't know if I'm reading your sentence right but I'll make an attempt to respond by saying that if MakeToys really wanted to compete head to head against TFC, they would have leaked photos of their combiner's WiP figures soon after TFC made their combiner known to the public.

Or shortly after pre-orders went up for the first TFC figure...prior to that there was no need to show anything.

These guys are in competition with each other if for no other reason than many people can't afford both. They may not have started out with the intention of competing with one another, but that's where they're at now. If there were only one option, that release probably would have been hugely successful. Now one or both could be in danger of breaking even, much less making a healthy profit.

News Credits: 3 · by **Dread_Wing** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:57 pm

Kibble wrote:
Convotron wrote:I don't know if I'm reading your sentence right but I'll make an attempt to respond by saying that if MakeToys really wanted to compete head to head against TFC, they would have leaked photos of their combiner's WiP figures soon after TFC made their combiner known to the public.

Or shortly after pre-orders went up for the first TFC figure...prior to that there was no need to show anything.

These guys are in competition with each other if for no other reason than many people can't afford both. They may not have started out with the intention of competing with one another, but that's where they're at now. If there were only one option, that release probably would have been hugely successful. Now one or both could be in danger of breaking even, much less making a healthy profit.

It is sad, but I have to agree. As someone who prefers the TFC version, I am rather worried at the hordes of people who cancelled the preorder for Exgraver in favour of Maketoy's Giant. I hope the drop in profits doesn't sink the project. Like it or not these two designs are competing for the rather limited TF fandom dollar. Kudos to those who are getting both. I honestly cannot afford one of them, but got talked into it, lol.

News Credits: 2 · by **Convotron** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:45 pm

Kibble wrote:Or shortly after pre-orders went up for the first TFC figure...prior to that there was no need to show anything.

These guys are in competition with each other if for no other reason than many people can't afford both. They may not have started out with the intention of competing with one another, but that's where they're at now. If there were only one option, that release probably would have been hugely successful. Now one or both could be in danger of breaking even, much less making a healthy profit.

I don't think that success would be guaranteed even if there was just one 3rd party Devastator option. Before MakeToys' combiner was announced, many people were seemingly on the fence about pre-ordering Exgraver. It sounded like some people were needing to re-arrange their budgets significantly if they wanted to prepare for buying all the Hercules combiner figures. The prohibitively high price of the completed Hercules means that only a relatively small portion of the already narrow market of Transformers collectors would be buying it. At least with MakeToys' Giant/Build/whatever they decide to call it should be cheaper as it's smaller.

Now that we have two 3rd party Devastator options, people who couldn't afford Hercules now have a chance to get another idealized version of Devastator.

Dread_Wing wrote:It is sad, but I have to agree. As someone who prefers the TFC version, I am rather worried at the hordes of people who cancelled the preorder for Exgraver in favour of Maketoy's Giant. I hope the drop in profits doesn't sink the project. Like it or not these two designs are competing for the rather limited TF fandom dollar. Kudos to those who are getting both. I honestly cannot afford one of them, but got talked into it, lol.

To be honest, I don't know how many people who pre-ordered Exgraver were both willing and able to complete the Hercules set. Even if no one cancelled their pre-order, if Exgraver didn't meet and/or exceed expectations, many people who bought Exgraver probably wouldn't continue to commit money to the other figures of the set.

I think TFC's primary concern shouldn't be MakeToy's combiner. Rather, TFC should be certain that their first entry for the Hercules set be able to deliver the goods. It has to be a toy with good engineering and design, good QC, and demonstrates the potential for the combined form. If Exgraver is a solid product then the people who can afford the set will continue to buy the figures and word will spread that the combiner set should deliver even if it's an expensive investment.

News Credits: 3 · by **Dread_Wing** » Sat Jul 16, 2011 11:50 pm

It really sucks that Exgraver turned out to be this expensive. It does not appear to be that expensive at the source in China, so it all comes down to import fees and the markups being put on it by the retailers. Fansproject seems to exercise some kind of price control, it is a real pity TFC seems to lack that ability/leverage. If we were talking about a 55-70 dollar toy rather than a 100 dollar one, it would make an enormous difference. I bought mine from Robotkingdom, sending to NZ, so it worked out to less than 100 nzd shipped.

News Credits: 3 · by **Kibble** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:06 am

Convotron wrote:I don't think that success would be guaranteed even if there was just one 3rd party Devastator option. Before MakeToys' combiner was announced, many people were seemingly on the fence about pre-ordering Exgraver. It sounded like some people were needing to re-arrange their budgets significantly if they wanted to prepare for buying all the Hercules combiner figures. The prohibitively high price of the completed Hercules means that only a relatively small portion of the already narrow market of Transformers collectors would be buying it. At least with MakeToys' Giant/Build/whatever they decide to call it should be cheaper as it's smaller.

Now that we have two 3rd party Devastator options, people who couldn't afford Hercules now have a chance to get another idealized version of Devastator.

TFC's only real obstacle was themselves. If their QC was at least decent, their figs ultimately woulda sold out when they were the only show in town.

As for your other point...that's only in theory. We don't know how much more affordable MT's will be. Seems logical they'll be in the same price range as FP due to their ties, but they're not FP so it's all speculative that their pricing will be the same.

News Credits: 3 · by **Dread_Wing** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:22 am

Kibble wrote:
TFC's only real obstacle was themselves. If their QC was at least decent, their figs ultimately woulda sold out when they were the only show in town.

As far as QC goes, the first reviews of Exgraver will show us that. From the pics it seems to be constructed simply and solidly as you would expect from a combiner component. Where they could have put a little fancy detail in that could potentially be fragile, they didn't. But the proof will come when it is in hand. A couple of good reviews from Vangelus or Peaugh for example would count for an awful lot.

News Credits: 2 · by **Convotron** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 12:27 am

Kibble wrote:TFC's only real obstacle was themselves. If their QC was at least decent, their figs ultimately woulda sold out when they were the only show in town.

As for your other point...that's only in theory. We don't know how much more affordable MT's will be. Seems logical they'll be in the same price range as FP due to their ties, but they're not FP so it's all speculative that their pricing will be the same.

True, if TFC had a good record of QC in their products, more people would have been willing to gamble on a $100 figure for a $600 combiner set.

If MT isn't willing or able to price their individual combiner figures for $50-$60 or less then hopefully they are able to provide some design features that help justify a higher price.

News Credits: 767 · by **Dead Metal** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:37 am

I still want both, the MakeToys one for my classics shelf and the TFC one simply because it's damn impressive.

News Credits: 5 · by **Doctor McGrath** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 11:39 am

Dead Metal wrote:I still want both, the MakeToys one for my classics shelf and the TFC one simply because it's damn impressive.

You and me both. This is exactly what I'll be doing.

News Credits: 110 · by **_Devastator_** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:10 pm

sorry if this has already been adressed, but anybody can tell me how tall is the is the combined TFC going to be? thx.

by **moop2000** » Sun Jul 17, 2011 8:34 pm

_Devastator_ wrote:sorry if this has already been adressed, but anybody can tell me how tall is the is the combined TFC going to be? thx.

As far as I could tell it hasn't been officially determined or announced but the general consensus appears to be at 16". Sorry if I've misinterpreted that from reading this thread.

by **moop2000** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:04 pm

I was at Frank & Sons today (a mini toy con near Los Angeles) and was asking the transformer seller about him stocking the TFC version. He said he was looking to price them at $90-95 dollars so if you have access to that place that may be a good deal. I believe he doesn;t charge tax or anything either. Also he said he has the full prototype on his possesion but didn't have space to showcase it yet. I was a little skeptical about it but it seems the other pieces are finished if he's got a full proto.

News Credits: 3 · by **Dread_Wing** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:15 pm

moop2000 wrote:I was at Frank & Sons today (a mini toy con near Los Angeles) and was asking the transformer seller about him stocking the TFC version. He said he was looking to price them at $90-95 dollars so if you have access to that place that may be a good deal. I believe he doesn;t charge tax or anything either. Also he said he has the full prototype on his possesion but didn't have space to showcase it yet. I was a little skeptical about it but it seems the other pieces are finished if he's got a full proto.

A full prototype of Exgraver or Hercules? I can understand him having Exgraver, what with it shipping next week, but all of Hercules? I am skeptical too.

by **moop2000** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:17 pm

Dread_Wing wrote:
moop2000 wrote:I was at Frank & Sons today (a mini toy con near Los Angeles) and was asking the transformer seller about him stocking the TFC version. He said he was looking to price them at $90-95 dollars so if you have access to that place that may be a good deal. I believe he doesn;t charge tax or anything either. Also he said he has the full prototype on his possesion but didn't have space to showcase it yet. I was a little skeptical about it but it seems the other pieces are finished if he's got a full proto.

A full prototype of Exgraver or Hercules? I can understand him having Exgraver, what with it shipping next week, but all of Hercules? I am skeptical too.

You know what, I didn't think to ask that but you are probably right about it just being Exgraver. Sorry for the mini-hype. I will say his price point is outstanding though.

News Credits: 3 · by **Dread_Wing** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:26 pm

Then again he said he didn't have room to display it? Room to display a deluxe/voyager? They aren't THAT big, so maybe he was talking about Hercules. It could be that uncertainty about the project being completed resulting from the fact we haven't seen Mixmaster or Bonecrusher has hurt his sales. He could be lying and saying he has a completed prototype to try to give potential customers confidence to buy Exgraver.

Isn't speculation fun? lol.

by **moop2000** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:33 pm

Now my head is spinning. And it's my own fault.

News Credits: 3 · by **Kibble** » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:39 pm

No, I can't believe for a second there's a full prototype of a completed Hercules in some random shop owner's possession, yet there are no photos of the thing on the interwebz anywhere. He meant just Exgraver...either that or he was lying.

News Credits: 1 · by **unicron nemesis** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:18 am

Kibble wrote:No, I can't believe for a second there's a full prototype of a completed Hercules in some random shop owner's possession, yet there are no photos of the thing on the interwebz anywhere. He meant just Exgraver...either that or he was lying.

I'm thinking this too. With all the demands to see pics of a full completed Hercules, TFC should already have shown pics if all the figures are ready. It'll be silly not to when so many of their potential customers are right now sitting on the fence.

News Credits: 409 · by **Stormrider** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 9:18 am

Agreed.

News Credits: 5749 · by **El Duque** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:42 pm

TFC Toys have updated their weibo micro-blog with the first in-package images of their highly anticipated Exgraver figure, the first figure in their six figure Hercules set. Images from their micro-blog are mirrored below.

News Credits: 3 · by **Kibble** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 10:46 pm

Damn, that looks nice. Almost regretting canceling my pre-order. But at the very least, I should wait it out for some reviews. And hopefully more info comes out on MT's soon, too.

News Credits: 5 · by **Doctor McGrath** » Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:37 pm

This looks really nice. One step closer to an official review.

by **TimothyR** » Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:25 am

ang3l3s wrote:$100 and no die-cast???

this isn't the 80's. toys are not made that way anymore. not to mention that completely plastic toys are better. especially for something in this scale.

i don't get the fascination with diecast anymore.. i mean, it's cool for some stuff.. like the binaltech line.. but other than that it just doesn't make much sense. it really limits poseability. it wears out joints faster. and it adds more to a price tag.. i'd rather spend $100 on this without diecast than $100 with. with a history of loose joints. imagine each arm of this figure having a bulk of metal.. it just wouldn't work.