Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[El Duque]

It's rare for Knock Offs to sneak their way into the world famous Seibertron.com galleries, but these four managed to get past the gallery bouncer for a photo shoot! Below you will find galleries for the recently produced KO versions of the rare and highly sought after Japanese cassettes Gurafi, Noizu, Dairu, and Zauru along with their combined forms of Decibel and Legout.

These figures are unofficial duplicates of the originals right down to the packaging and copyright stamps. The packaging is significantly lower res than authentic versions, though this could be difficult to discern in an on-line auction setting. If you plan on purchasing authentic versions of these figures use these galleries to educate yourself before buying.



Noizu (Cassettes, Communications)
KO Transformers




Gurafi (Cassettes, Communications)
KO Transformers




Dairu (Cassettes, Communications)
KO Transformers




Zauru (Cassettes, Communications)
KO Transformers








Legout (Cassettes, Communications, Gestalts)
KO Transformers




Decibel (Cassettes, Communications, Gestalts)
KO Transformers

[Stormrider]

Thanks for the photos. I have an authentic Noizu and comparing it to the Seibertron's photos of KO Noizu helps me see the differences much easier.

I bought KO Dial and KO Zaur to fill a void and was not happy at all. First and last KO's I buy. I expected them to be cheap but not defected to the point that I could not transform them.

[El Duque]

Thanks for the photos. I have an authentic Noizu and comparing it to the Seibertron's photos of KO Noizu helps me see the differences much easier.

I bought KO Dial and KO Zaur to fill a void and was not happy at all. First and last KO's I buy. I expected them to be cheap but not defected to the point that I could not transform them.

I have all four KO's and found them nearly perfect.

I don't always buy KO's

but when I do they're rare Japanese cassettes.

[Bumblevivisector]

These galleries honor the sacrifice of KOTOYS.com, a business which literally died to bring you these cassettes. Whether or not you feel they deserved the crackdown that befell them (and I'd be interested to meet a lawyer that says they didn't), these 4 are an impressive legacy.

True, they should have altered the packaging in some way to prevent secondary market fraud, but so far every one I've seen on the auction block has fessed up to it being a knock off.

Another handy metric: If the lot is a pair, mint in pristine boxes with no visible wear, it's the KO. If it's just one, loose with the stickers all curled at the edges and missing one or both guns, and generally looking like your personal holy grail degraded into a piece of slag as part of some sick cosmic joke, then it's the real deal. These 4 are traded so infrequently that Takara should have reissued these guys a LONG time ago to meet demand from cassette completists and avoided this whole polarizing issue. If they haven't done so because the molds are missing/damaged, and Takara won't reverse mold because it's too expensive, then I'd like to think that the reverse molds made to produce this set will somehow fall into official hands.

I for one got both pair, and proudly show them off...to friends who've never heard of them, don't understand their grail-status, and can't get over how lame their combined modes look, especially Decibel, who can barely stand straight up (is that a defect unique to the KOs?) Kind of like how Heavy Metal was out of print for so long that by the time of the big release in the late '90s, enough good anime was commercially available that it didn't seem all that mind-blowing anymore.

Glad to finally have these guys, even if they're not the real deal. KOTOYS always had QC problems, overshadowed by their communication problems, and I haven't received all of my last 2 orders yet. Yet based on some horror stories I'm hearing about the Soundblaster/Twincast reissues, apparently collecting any toy you have to order from overseas is something of a crap shoot anymore. I hope this rambling doesn't get another KOTOYS thread locked, and thanks for the gallery.

[Seibertron]

Kills me that I had to use KOs for these instead of the real deals. Unfortunately, these will have to do until I am able to purchase originals or until reissues are released. Hopefully Takara Tomy takes note and puts these on their list for an Encore release. It'd be awesome to see one set of all four or the four figures split up between two different Encore sets, the others being Beastbox, Squawktalk, Grandslam, and Raindance.

The quality on these is what I expected for KOs. They're by no means perfect. There are small issues with all of them, but nothing that prevented me from doing their galleries. The stickers are not a perfect fit, which was OK until I transformed them, which caused minor damage to the stickers that overlap. Some of you might have the patience to trim the stickers ... I don't.

Decibel wasn't able to be combined properly because Gurafi's head wouldn't stay in the tucked in position, which I fixed by putting a small rubberband around his head just to create enough friction so that the head wouldn't fall out, causing Decibel's torso to fall backward.

It was nice to finally have some kind of samples of these in my hands at long last. I will acknowledge that my purchase of these four cassettes is hypocritical of me, especially since I'm such a staunch advocate against 3rd party toys and especially of knock offs. However, items like these are only a placeholder in my collection until I can find the authentic figures. It's not that I can't afford the originals, it's that they're hard as hell to come by, and when they do ... other collectors are right there to buy them as well. Hopefully I will be able to present detailed galleries of the original versions of these cassettes alongside their counterfeits so that everyone can be educated about the differences.

[Seibertron]

These galleries honor the sacrifice of KOTOYS.com, a business which literally died to bring you these cassettes. Whether or not you feel they deserved the crackdown that befell them (and I'd be interested to meet a lawyer that says they didn't), these 4 are an impressive legacy.

...

Glad to finally have these guys, even if they're not the real deal. KOTOYS always had QC problems, overshadowed by their communication problems, and I haven't received all of my last 2 orders yet. Yet based on some horror stories I'm hearing about the Soundblaster/Twincast reissues, apparently collecting any toy you have to order from overseas is something of a crap shoot anymore. I hope this rambling doesn't get another KOTOYS thread locked, and thanks for the gallery.

These galleries most definitely do not honor KOtoys. Don't turn KOtoys into martyrs. They are way on the other end of the spectrum from being anything close to that. KOtoys got what these deserved and had coming to them for a very long time. From what I understand, KOtoys isn't who made these, or any KO Transformers toys. They were just an online retailer who sold KO products.

Curious to hear about the problems people are saying about their Twincast and Soundblaster. Aside from my Twincast missing the two clear cases for the cassettes, everything else was perfect.

[generalstratton]

These galleries honor the sacrifice of KOTOYS.com, a business which literally died to bring you these cassettes. Whether or not you feel they deserved the crackdown that befell them (and I'd be interested to meet a lawyer that says they didn't), these 4 are an impressive legacy.

...

Glad to finally have these guys, even if they're not the real deal. KOTOYS always had QC problems, overshadowed by their communication problems, and I haven't received all of my last 2 orders yet. Yet based on some horror stories I'm hearing about the Soundblaster/Twincast reissues, apparently collecting any toy you have to order from overseas is something of a crap shoot anymore. I hope this rambling doesn't get another KOTOYS thread locked, and thanks for the gallery.

These galleries most definitely do not honor KOtoys. Don't turn KOtoys into martyrs. They are way on the other end of the spectrum from being anything close to that. KOtoys got what these deserved and had coming to them for a very long time. From what I understand, KOtoys isn't who made these, or any KO Transformers toys. They were just an online retailer who sold KO products.

Curious to hear about the problems people are saying about their Twincast and Soundblaster. Aside from my Twincast missing the two clear cases for the cassettes, everything else was perfect.

In this one case, KOtoys were directly responsible. While they were not the factory that made them, the owner of KOtoys donated his original figures to the factory, so they could be reverse engineered. And was involved in the QC process, for the prototype figures to make sure they matched up in appearance as much as possible. As the factory brought the toys to the owner of KOtoys during each stage of the development for approval. Even the sticker font was changed, after one of these meetings. (over the 6 - 10 months of these figures development, their progress was posted on the KOtoys forums, keeping the fans involved as well)

Yes KOtoys was just on online retailer, but through their forums, KOtoys had become very involved with Chinese companies, like CHMS, to try and bring KO fans what we wanted. as well as to bring us exclusives, like the DIY Sideswipe & Hotrod kits.

And for all their problems, it will be along time before some one fill their shoes. In becoming more then just a retailers of knock off toys.

[Bumblevivisector]

Sorry I failed to convey the half jest of that "sacrifice" comment. Since the galleries were compiled for this site, I assume most viewers would know they were anything but a shrine to knock-off retailers. I think CHMS actually made these, but I though GenZao did have some hand in seeing that they got made.

No one can say KOTOYS wasn't asking for everything that befell them, but I stand by my statement that these KOs have probably helped pave the way for legit reissues down the road. Even if Takara has all the original molds in working order, they likely considered these 4 too obscure to bother with, since demand would be perceived as lacking. Well, the justified s#!t-storm surrounding these knock-offs was more effective advertising and market research than Takara would likely pay for.

I never wanted exact replica KOs of these guys any more than you did, Seib. I don't really want pristine originals either, since anyone lucky enough to have them should hold onto them forever; that's what I'd do. Hell, if I saw any mint '87 versions of them come up for auction, I'd be sad because I'd assume it was the result of a collector falling on hard financial times or dying. I want legit reissues. So do you. It's safe to say we'd all love to see that. But sometimes a placeholder has to exist before any rights holder realizes that a place might also exist in their business plan for the real deal. Just look at any foreign movie or TV show that's gotten a fansub long before any American distributor bothered to import it legally. It may be a sad fact, and not how the world of toy collecting should work, but that fact is what this gallery will stand tribute to until there exists any such thing as reissues of these cassettes.

Again, sorry if this is getting off track, but I had to clarify what I said on a thorny issue.

As for the QC issues with the communicators, my Shattered Glass Drift had a left and right gun, but I don't doubt I was just lucky, so I don't doubt the posters who said they were missing a dial and a wing either. My luck with our latest set of legit cassette reissues has yet to be seen, as I'm a tad broke at the moment.

[Seibertron]

Sorry I failed to convey the half jest of that "sacrifice" comment. Since the galleries were compiled for this site, I assume most viewers would know they were anything but a shrine to knock-off retailers. I think CHMS actually made these, but I though GenZao did have some hand in seeing that they got made.

No one can say KOTOYS wasn't asking for everything that befell them, but I stand by my statement that these KOs have probably helped pave the way for legit reissues down the road. Even if Takara has all the original molds in working order, they likely considered these 4 too obscure to bother with, since demand would be perceived as lacking. Well, the justified s#!t-storm surrounding these knock-offs was more effective advertising and market research than Takara would likely pay for.

I never wanted exact replica KOs of these guys any more than you did, Seib. I don't really want pristine originals either, since anyone lucky enough to have them should hold onto them forever; that's what I'd do. Hell, if I saw any mint '87 versions of them come up for auction, I'd be sad because I'd assume it was the result of a collector falling on hard financial times or dying. I want legit reissues. So do you. It's safe to say we'd all love to see that. But sometimes a placeholder has to exist before any rights holder realizes that a place might also exist in their business plan for the real deal. Just look at any foreign movie or TV show that's gotten a fansub long before any American distributor bothered to import it legally. It may be a sad fact, and not how the world of toy collecting should work, but that fact is what this gallery will stand tribute to until there exists any such thing as reissues of these cassettes.

Again, sorry if this is getting off track, but I had to clarify what I said on a thorny issue.

As for the QC issues with the communicators, my Shattered Glass Drift had a left and right gun, but I don't doubt I was just lucky, so I don't doubt the posters who said they were missing a dial and a wing either. My luck with our latest set of legit cassette reissues has yet to be seen, as I'm a tad broke at the moment.

Thanks for the clarification and for the info. Hopefully the previous shitstorm and spotlighting galleries of these KOs will help get these their rightful place in the archives or reissues in the near future. I've got my fingers crossed.

[Gauntlet101010]

I have to admit, I wondered whether these guys would find their way into the Seibertron galleries. Nice to see them here. And I do hope that these KOs push Takara into making legit reissues! As the owner of all four KOs I'd love to get my mitts on legit versions.

For all we know KO Toys did sacrifice themselves when they made these. Mike WAS instrumental in making them. KO Toys did make a great deal of KOs that were highly prized, and I have more than a few .... mostly Seekers. The fan interaction was really something too and it contributed to their success. Unfortunately all that was overshadowed by certain ... let's say "flaws" to be nice. They really were their own worst enemy; they probably would have been met with much less hostility if they only did things just a little differently. And I don't understand why they were dead set to make these as exact as possible when it alienated a whole section of the community.

Anyhow, the last two Dinocassettes and 25 cases made for a great last order.

[Mkall]

I have to admit, I wondered whether these guys would find their way into the Seibertron galleries. Nice to see them here. And I do hope that these KOs push Takara into making legit reissues! As the owner of all four KOs I'd love to get my mitts on legit versions.

As would I and most people on these boards I would suspect.

[UltraPrimal]

Man, I'm a little jealous. These guys, even for KO's, look pretty cool. I especially like Dairu. Looks pretty articulated for a G1 cassette.

You should do a gallery of that Headmaster Surprise Giftset next if you're looking to continue with the KOs. At least they're of much better quality than your average knockoff. And I know just where you can get a set.

[emeraldbeacon]

Still think they should recolor the Energon Dinobots into Noise & Graphy...

[Seibertron]

Man, I'm a little jealous. These guys, even for KO's, look pretty cool. I especially like Dairu. Looks pretty articulated for a G1 cassette.

You should do a gallery of that Headmaster Surprise Giftset next if you're looking to continue with the KOs. At least they're of much better quality than your average knockoff. And I know just where you can get a set.

I've got those too ... just need a reason to bust them out for the galleries. Timing is everything. I decided to move these four galleries to the top of the list because I received Noizu and Gurafi on Saturday, right before I was about to put away Twincast, Soundblaster, Soundwave, Blaster, and all of the cassettes. I decided now was the best time to do them while I had all of those toys out still, who are now all packed away safe and sound and heading back to the storage unit tomorrow.

[Sabrblade]

How come they're listed here by Romanized names instead of the more transliterated "Noise", "Graphy", "Dial", and "Saur"?

[Seibertron]

How come they're listed here by Romanized names instead of the more transliterated "Noise", "Graphy", "Dial", and "Saur"?

Because their names are written in plain english on their bio cards and any of the high profile collectors websites that I've been to in the past use these versions of their names as well. I have the four alternate names that you listed (Noise, Graphy, Saur, and Dial) as their secondary names so if someone tries to search for them that way, it will still pull up their galleries.



Example of search by their alternative names: http://www.seibertron.com/toys/index.ph ... mit=Search

And here are some blogs from a couple of high end Transformers collectors:

• http://www.tf-1.com/articles/jtf/dinocass_template.html
• http://heroicdecepticon.blogspot.com/2011/12/altogether-now-dino-cassettes-gurafi.html

[Jelze Bunnycat]

How come they're listed here by Romanized names instead of the more transliterated "Noise", "Graphy", "Dial", and "Saur"?

Because their names are written in plain english on their bio cards and any of the high profile collectors websites that I've been to in the past use these versions of their names as well. I have the four alternate names that you listed (Noise, Graphy, Saur, and Dial) as their secondary names so if someone tries to search for them that way, it will still pull up their galleries.



Example of search by their alternative names: http://www.seibertron.com/toys/index.ph ... mit=Search

And here are some blogs from a couple of high end Transformers collectors:

• http://www.tf-1.com/articles/jtf/dinocass_template.html
• http://heroicdecepticon.blogspot.com/2011/12/altogether-now-dino-cassettes-gurafi.html

And despite the fact they may seem "off" and it makes more sense to use the more transliterated names, it's the fact that the standard romanised names appear on the bio cards that makes them the official English names. Don't try to fight it, I did that once.

[Seibertron]

And despite the fact they may seem "off" and it makes more sense to use the more transliterated names, it's the fact that the standard romanised names appear on the bio cards that makes them the official English names. Don't try to fight it, I did that once.

That and coupled with the fact that to the best of my knowledge there is no official fiction or listings of these characters with the transliterated names which I had never heard of prior to reading those names on tfwiki.net while researching information about these toys when I started their galleries. If someone can show me an official usage of their names like that, then I might be able to be persuaded to flip their name usage on this site.

[Sabrblade]

And despite the fact they may seem "off" and it makes more sense to use the more transliterated names, it's the fact that the standard romanised names appear on the bio cards that makes them the official English names. Don't try to fight it, I did that once.

That and coupled with the fact that to the best of my knowledge there is no official fiction or listings of these characters with the transliterated names which I had never heard of prior to reading those names on tfwiki.net while researching information about these toys when I started their galleries. If someone can show me an official usage of their names like that, then I might be able to be persuaded to flip their name usage on this site.

I figure most just take them as a case in which we know what names they're supposed to be, but someone at Takara probably didn't and so only went halfway in the translation process.

Similar things have happened, like how the following toys have had their names misspelled in English:

• Minerva as "Minelba"
• Kraken as "Clerken"
• Dauros as "Dowlos"
• Cab as "Carb"
• Alternity Dai Atlas as "Dai Atras" (a recent example)
• Liokaiser as "Liocaesar"

Eh, at least we know what English names they're trying to be.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

Similar things have happened, like how the following toys have had their names misspelled in English:

• Minerva as "Minelba"
• Kraken as "Clerken"
• Dauros as "Dowlos"
• Cab as "Carb"
• Alternity Dai Atlas as "Dai Atras" (a recent example)
• Liokaiser as "Liocaesar"

Eh, at least we know what English names they're trying to be.

Hold that thought while I look up their bio cards. If you must know, it spells "Jaruga" as "Jallguar", based on "Jaga" for Jaguar (Ravage)

[Sabrblade]

If you must know, it spells "Jaruga" as "Jallguar", based on "Jaga" for Jaguar (Ravage)

I know. TFWiki has decided that there's little reason to no longer ignore the spellings "Jallguar" and "Guyhawk" over the fan spellings of "Jaruga/Jarugar" and "Gaihawk", and so have thus gone with those names.

[Seibertron]

Similar things have happened, like how the following toys have had their names misspelled in English:

• Minerva as "Minelba"
• Kraken as "Clerken"
• Dauros as "Dowlos"
• Cab as "Carb"
• Alternity Dai Atlas as "Dai Atras" (a recent example)
• Liokaiser as "Liocaesar"

Eh, at least we know what English names they're trying to be.

Hold that thought while I look up their bio cards. If you must know, it spells "Jaruga" as "Jallguar", based on "Jaga" for Jaguar (Ravage)

Some of the examples you mentioned are the more obvious "L" and "R" issues with translation from Japanese to English, which are easy to discern what the correct name should be. The difference with these four dino-cassettes is that their Japanese names are regularly used by collectors and to the best of my knowledge there is no official fiction that uses the names Graphy, Dial, Saur, and Noise. It helps that the Japanese versions of their names are all easy to pronounce. It doesn't help matters that they didn't appear in the cartoon and thus there are no subtitle translations of their names. There are plenty of references to the more acceptable or common English versions of the names you mentioned.

[Screamfleet]

As would I and most people on these boards I would suspect.

I'm many trans fans would buy up reissues of these guys. Getting them to sell would be no problem.

[Rated X]

These galleries honor the sacrifice of KOTOYS.com, a business which literally died to bring you these cassettes. Whether or not you feel they deserved the crackdown that befell them (and I'd be interested to meet a lawyer that says they didn't), these 4 are an impressive legacy.

...

Glad to finally have these guys, even if they're not the real deal. KOTOYS always had QC problems, overshadowed by their communication problems, and I haven't received all of my last 2 orders yet. Yet based on some horror stories I'm hearing about the Soundblaster/Twincast reissues, apparently collecting any toy you have to order from overseas is something of a crap shoot anymore. I hope this rambling doesn't get another KOTOYS thread locked, and thanks for the gallery.

These galleries most definitely do not honor KOtoys. Don't turn KOtoys into martyrs. They are way on the other end of the spectrum from being anything close to that. KOtoys got what these deserved and had coming to them for a very long time. From what I understand, KOtoys isn't who made these, or any KO Transformers toys. They were just an online retailer who sold KO products.

Curious to hear about the problems people are saying about their Twincast and Soundblaster. Aside from my Twincast missing the two clear cases for the cassettes, everything else was perfect.

In this one case, KOtoys were directly responsible. While they were not the factory that made them, the owner of KOtoys donated his original figures to the factory, so they could be reverse engineered. And was involved in the QC process, for the prototype figures to make sure they matched up in appearance as much as possible. As the factory brought the toys to the owner of KOtoys during each stage of the development for approval. Even the sticker font was changed, after one of these meetings. (over the 6 - 10 months of these figures development, their progress was posted on the KOtoys forums, keeping the fans involved as well)

Yes KOtoys was just on online retailer, but through their forums, KOtoys had become very involved with Chinese companies, like CHMS, to try and bring KO fans what we wanted. as well as to bring us exclusives, like the DIY Sideswipe & Hotrod kits.

And for all their problems, it will be along time before some one fill their shoes. In becoming more then just a retailers of knock off toys.

Seibertron,

I commend you for putting up these galleries. The bottom line is almost no one has the original Takara Dino cassettes. With that being said, it makes the KO Dino cassettes a hot item and a must have for G1 collectors. I encourage you to do more galleries of KO’s that were never intended to exist such as CHMS Rainmakers, Sunstorm, Purple Clone, Ghost Coneheads, KOLD Blue Konvoy, X-Transbots Bad Boy and Cobra Power Rat. While the molds might be KO’s the characters are not because they have been deemed unworthy of production by Hasbro. These are the galleries people want to see. Not galleries of stuff that is in Wal-Mart as we speak.


As for KO Toys, I would say that they were unfairly targeted by Hasbro because they made CHMS and KOLD famous. Plenty of other online stores continue to sell these products without threats from Hasbro lawyers. This includes Robot Kingdom, an official site sponsor. So why was only KO Toys targeted and not the others ? Was Mike really that big or was he just really outspoken. Either way, Mike and Kate took one for the team so they are indeed martyrs. But I suspect we haven’t seen the last of them.


A moment of silence for KO Toys…

[Jelze Bunnycat]

Seibertron,

I commend you for putting up these galleries. The bottom line is almost no one has the original Takara Dino cassettes. With that being said, it makes the KO Dino cassettes a hot item and a must have for G1 collectors. I encourage you to do more galleries of KO’s that were never intended to exist such as CHMS Rainmakers, Sunstorm, Purple Clone, Ghost Coneheads, KOLD Blue Konvoy, X-Transbots Bad Boy and Cobra Power Rat. While the molds might be KO’s the characters are not because they have been deemed unworthy of production by Hasbro. These are the galleries people want to see. Not galleries of stuff that is in Wal-Mart as we speak.

And I must commend you on your guts

While I'm not against galleries of such KO's for informative purposes, it could come across as condoning them, which will definitely earn us Hasbro's wrath. Several online stores had to actually stop listing such items upon Hasbro's request (read: Cease and Desist Notice), and I'm sure nobody wants to be sued by any large company.

And stop acting like you know the fandom, because you don't.