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KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

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KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby daimchoc » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:48 am

Found this image on weibo which were talking about the KO set...


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From ebay seller

Originally Posted by makeasy2u
i have sent the list. now a new product MP16. usd39.99 too.

- makeasy2u
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby daimchoc » Mon Sep 30, 2013 9:51 am

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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby Stormrider » Mon Sep 30, 2013 6:16 pm

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Jesus, every MP is getting KO'd
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby Mindmaster » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:20 pm

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If you're considering making a purchase on Masterpiece Frenzy & Buzzsaw, beware! Seibertron.com user daimchoc was gracious enough to warn fellow users that a knock-off of the popular set is beginning to appear in markets. daimchoc found the set via an auction on aliexpress.com. The set is priced at $39.99 USD.

daimchoc wrote:Found this image on weibo which were talking about the KO set...


Image

From ebay seller

Originally Posted by makeasy2u
i have sent the list. now a new product MP16. usd39.99 too.

- makeasy2u
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby Rated X » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:35 pm

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Damn, I bought MP Soundwave for the cassettes a couple weeks ago. I would have jumped on these if I had known. I wonder if they will KO ratbat when he comes out. I will jump on him for sure !
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby Bumblevivisector » Mon Sep 30, 2013 7:56 pm

Are these like the MP Lambor and Alert KOs, in that they're actually made from excess parts and packaging from the production of the read deals? If so, I can't get as excited as I usually do, because only through reverse molding could we get some new color schemes that HasTak might never produce, like Garboil and Enemy for these two.

For the record, I bought Hasbro's MP Soundwave set, and have no QC complaints, but the horror stories I've heard of Ravage snapping in half and condor fins breaking from joint stiffness mean this is great news for those who did the right thing and shouldn't have to pay full price again to replace unavoidable breakage.

Still, I've been tempted to get the Takara version of this pair anyway due to the irony of their Frenzy being a more Marvel-accurate blue, meaning he goes way better with yellow-optic Soundwave. I'm RIRFIB 'till all life sparks are one, but even I look at Hasbro's red-eyed purple MP Frenzy and want to call him Rumble, and dammit, that's a flavor of wrong deeper than any ethical issues surrounding Knock-offs. Ya' puts purple on Soundwave, maybe Rumble, but not Frenzy!

Well, okay, Japanese continuity Frenzy was cartoon purple, but again, WTF happened?
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby RiddlerJ » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:15 am

So what you're saying is that this all pink Buzzsaw I just bought might not be legit?
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby Yotsuyasan » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:19 am

Motto: "No matter where you go, there you are."
I am normally quite anti-bootleg, but I suppose this set's existence might not be completely horrible in existing, as it could help out people who have had the misfortune of their Buzzsaw's fins snapping. I'd have been more forgiving of this set's existence if, rather then trying to look like the official release (which could easily fool people who are not careful) by pairing Buzzsaw up with Frenzy, they had instead paired him up with one of the other cassettes with known QC issues.

But nope. So never mind, it is horrible in existing.

Rated X wrote:Damn, I bought MP Soundwave for the cassettes a couple weeks ago. I would have jumped on these if I had known. I wonder if they will KO ratbat when he comes out. I will jump on him for sure !


So based on your post, it sounds as if you wanted the five cassettes but not Soundwave?

This two-pack of the KO Frenzy and Buzzsaw, as ordered from Aliexpress.com with the least expensive shipping option, costs $42.86 shipped to the U.S.

That's a cost of $21.43 per cassette.

Mutliply that five, and you get $107.15. (Although this multiplying by five is a fantasy scenario. Likely KO Lazerbeak would not be sold separately, but with a KO of Soundwave, bringing the price even higher.)

Meanwhile, Soundwave shipped from TRU.com cost $127.49. (I understand shipping may have been slightly different depending on where you lived, but we'll go with that and hope it is a good average.) I'll concede that he is out of stock at TRU.com, but hopefully you were able to luck across him in a store and pay a similar price to that, and you didn't pay some evil scalper's inflated price.

So, a hypothetical difference of about $20.34? Even if Soundwave himself was not on your wishlist, I think even you would have to admit that for about $20.00 he's a steal. I really think that in this round, Hasbro won pricewise. Plus, think of the convenience of getting everything, all at once, in one package! And, on top of that, you get to enjoy your official figure secure in the knowledge that you've supported the company that created it so that they can create more designs for you to enjoy in the future, rather then knowing your money went to some arsehole bootlegger, which I know would have kept you up at night sick with worry.
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby Rated X » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:59 am

Motto: ""Assumption is the mother of all screw ups.""
Weapon: Saw-Edged Pincer
Yotsuyasan wrote:I am normally quite anti-bootleg, but I suppose this set's existence might not be completely horrible in existing, as it could help out people who have had the misfortune of their Buzzsaw's fins snapping. I'd have been more forgiving of this set's existence if, rather then trying to look like the official release (which could easily fool people who are not careful) by pairing Buzzsaw up with Frenzy, they had instead paired him up with one of the other cassettes with known QC issues.

But nope. So never mind, it is horrible in existing.

Rated X wrote:Damn, I bought MP Soundwave for the cassettes a couple weeks ago. I would have jumped on these if I had known. I wonder if they will KO ratbat when he comes out. I will jump on him for sure !


So based on your post, it sounds as if you wanted the five cassettes but not Soundwave?

This two-pack of the KO Frenzy and Buzzsaw, as ordered from Aliexpress.com with the least expensive shipping option, costs $42.86 shipped to the U.S.

That's a cost of $21.43 per cassette.

Mutliply that five, and you get $107.15. (Although this multiplying by five is a fantasy scenario. Likely KO Lazerbeak would not be sold separately, but with a KO of Soundwave, bringing the price even higher.)

Meanwhile, Soundwave shipped from TRU.com cost $127.49. (I understand shipping may have been slightly different depending on where you lived, but we'll go with that and hope it is a good average.) I'll concede that he is out of stock at TRU.com, but hopefully you were able to luck across him in a store and pay a similar price to that, and you didn't pay some evil scalper's inflated price.

So, a hypothetical difference of about $20.34? Even if Soundwave himself was not on your wishlist, I think even you would have to admit that for about $20.00 he's a steal. I really think that in this round, Hasbro won pricewise. Plus, think of the convenience of getting everything, all at once, in one package! And, on top of that, you get to enjoy your official figure secure in the knowledge that you've supported the company that created it so that they can create more designs for you to enjoy in the future, rather then knowing your money went to some arsehole bootlegger, which I know would have kept you up at night sick with worry.


I see your point. But factor in the 15-20 bucks I spent in gas driving around Miami to different TRU's until I finally found the damn thing. I paid 119 plus tax. Also I didn't even think of this, but KO's open the door to repaints like Enemy, Sundor, etc. I'm pretty sure when they get hold of Ratbat, that set will come with Lazerbeak.

These cassettes actually scale perfect with classics figures if you go by G1 cartoon standards. MP Ravage is actually smaller than classics ravage.
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby Gauntlet101010 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 9:47 am

A KO doesn't necessarily mean we'll get repaints of these moulds. Rumour has it they're factory extras, not copies. Since they aren't copies we wouldn't get any recolours.
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby Rated X » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:35 am

Motto: ""Assumption is the mother of all screw ups.""
Weapon: Saw-Edged Pincer
Gauntlet101010 wrote:A KO doesn't necessarily mean we'll get repaints of these moulds. Rumour has it they're factory extras, not copies. Since they aren't copies we wouldn't get any recolours.



How would "factory extras" end up in the hands of a private company instead of the Takara factory as a "restock" ? Im assuming these are painted to resemble the Takara versions which were sold without the Soundwave. So where are the "factory extras" for all the classics figures ? Why did only the MP line suffer this change of hands if the rumor is true ?
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby EagleTron » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:37 am

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Just seeing the word ko and transformer together makes me so upset. And everytime I hear someone supporting that stuff in any kind of way is very bad. And the worse thing about it is that I haven't heard anything about someone trying to stop it.
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby Gauntlet101010 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:43 am

Rated X wrote:
Gauntlet101010 wrote:A KO doesn't necessarily mean we'll get repaints of these moulds. Rumour has it they're factory extras, not copies. Since they aren't copies we wouldn't get any recolours.



How would "factory extras" end up in the hands of a private company instead of the Takara factory as a "restock" ? Im assuming these are painted to resemble the Takara versions which were sold without the Soundwave. So where are the "factory extras" for all the classics figures ? Why did only the MP line suffer this change of hands if the rumor is true ?


They fall off the back of the truck because not all factory workers are honest.

I guess the MPs are made in a different facility. Or maybe someone is paying them to skim a few off the top. Can't honestly say, that's just a best guess. Maybe they're made int he same place as HA Barricade. But it doesn't look like there's anything to suggest these guys have actually been copied; that their moulds have been knocked off, strictly speaking. Which is why people suspect these are made from leftover parts. At least that's what I gather.
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby Mindmaster » Tue Oct 01, 2013 11:48 am

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EagleTron wrote:Just seeing the word ko and transformer together makes me so upset. And everytime I hear someone supporting that stuff in any kind of way is very bad. And the worse thing about it is that I haven't heard anything about someone trying to stop it.



I do not own any KO figures outside a couple Aerialbots, and I'm neither for or against them. But sometimes KOs are the best way to go.

Let me give you a scenario: you just purchased MP Soundwave & Laserbeak. Not too long after, Laserbeak breaks for whatever reason, and Takara/retailer refuse to replace him. So now you're stuck with a broken Laserbeak. Little while later, you learn that a KO of Laserbeak is being produced and released by himself, with quality on par or a little lower than the official. And they have every detail down pat.

Would you rather splurge an extra $150 you don't have/can't afford, or get KO Laserbeak for the low low price of $20-30?
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby Genocide G2.0 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:27 pm

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I will buy these >:oP .
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby Genocide G2.0 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:27 pm

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I will buy these >:oP .
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby Yotsuyasan » Tue Oct 01, 2013 12:48 pm

Motto: "No matter where you go, there you are."
Mindmaster wrote:Let me give you a scenario: you just purchased MP Soundwave & Laserbeak. Not too long after, Laserbeak breaks for whatever reason, and Takara/retailer refuse to replace him. So now you're stuck with a broken Laserbeak. Little while later, you learn that a KO of Laserbeak is being produced and released by himself, with quality on par or a little lower than the official. And they have every detail down pat.

Would you rather splurge an extra $150 you don't have/can't afford, or get KO Laserbeak for the low low price of $20-30?


At the risk of beating the dead horse of the KO argument, let me give you a scenario.

First off, I have to assume that your scenario above happens outside of the allowed return/exchange window of whatever retailer you are dealing with, or the solution is simple: return the broken figure in exchange for another. We shall assume the same for my scenario here:

You just purchased an expensive DVD box set. Not too long after, one of the disks breaks for whatever reason, and the studio/retailer refuse to replace it. So now you're stuck with a broken DVD. Little while later, you learn that a KO of that DVD is being produced and released by itself, with quality on par or a little lower than the official. And they have every detail down pat.

So, is it legal or right to purchase that bootleg DVD?
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby Rated X » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:03 pm

Motto: ""Assumption is the mother of all screw ups.""
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The best scenario is the following:

What if I dont care about value and just want a collection that looks cool in my man cave ? When it comes to owning authentiv vintage figures, what good are "bragging rights" if you dont know any other TF collectors to brag to ? If they look just as cool as the originals, they will get the same amount of attention as the originals from friends and family. They will say "Thats cool, I used to have one I was young". For some collectors, thats all that matters is the "cool factor". This is why high quality KO's exist and flourish.
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby Burn » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:11 pm

Motto: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings to randomly click things in the Admin Panel to see what it breaks."
I don't need to brag, I just need to know for my own personal satisfaction that all my figures are genuine Hasbro/TT and not a KO. But that's just my personal preference.

Been burned once by KO's, that's enough for me to dislike them and the scum that try to pass them off as legitimate TF's.
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby Stormrider » Tue Oct 01, 2013 3:51 pm

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Burn wrote:I don't need to brag, I just need to know for my own personal satisfaction that all my figures are genuine Hasbro/TT and not a KO. But that's just my personal preference.

Been burned once by KO's, that's enough for me to dislike them and the scum that try to pass them off as legitimate TF's.


You hit the nail on the head for me. I don't care what they are and who is buying them. I just want to identify if they are legit and not fooled by the packaging.
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby EagleTron » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:04 pm

Motto: "I laugh out loud for no reason at all after I have won a Great Battle. The very last Bot Standing!"
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Shaking my head at y'all excuses and reasons to by a ko. How can you support anyone that Steals. Them ko are thieves of ppls hard work sacrifice s and ideas to bring us some good figures. Imaging it took you more than a year to come up with a invention and afther everything is said and done a couple of months later after you just start getting a taste of some good sales some else steals your entire design then they mislead buyers to think that its your product and then on top of that they try to make it better than the original. I wann blow up every transformer ko ever made. I feel sorry for Takara.
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby Rated X » Tue Oct 01, 2013 4:58 pm

Motto: ""Assumption is the mother of all screw ups.""
Weapon: Saw-Edged Pincer
When it comes time to “re-issue” a 30 year old toy, do you anti-KO guys really believe Hasbro mails a check to the original designer of the figure or artist who designed the character? Half of those guys are dead or collected their last paycheck from Hasbro in the late 80’s. So when you scream “IP infringement” in this day and age, you’re not defending the people who created the characters we love. You’re defending the corporate investors who bought up the copyrights and hoarded them for 30 years. A lot of you anti-KO people just don’t get it. You’re just defending corporate interests and investments that belong to people who don’t give a crap about the fandom. I have no attachment to today’s Hasbro corporate division. They didn’t create G1 and the revenue it still draws; they just inherited G1 by corporate affiliation. How am I supposed to respect that?

Additionally, once something is old enough to become “vintage” the retro factor starts to kick in. You got tons of trendy people who want an Optimus Prime on their shelf because it looks cool, not because it is vintage. That’s the KO markets strongest market, and it’s a big one. Fair weather fans make up a majority of the collectors who buy KO’s. To some, “personal satisfaction” might come from knowing you own an authentic Transformer. But to others, the “personal satisfaction” might come from non-collector friends checking out your KO’s and saying “damn that retro stuff is cool!”

On newer KO’s such as copies of Botcon figures or MP Issues, all I can say is the price is right. Why pay inflated collector prices if you can avoid it? If it looks like a duck and quacks it’s a duck for many people. Not everybody is so critical.
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby njb902 » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:05 pm

So it's alright as long as you don't feel that the owner owns it?
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby Burn » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:20 pm

Motto: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings to randomly click things in the Admin Panel to see what it breaks."
Hasbro/TT pay people to design and create characters. That payment is their right to own the designs and the characters.

That's the same for ANY business. I work for an engineering firm, our engineers are well aware that any designs they create are owned by the business as they are reimbursed.

To sit there and try to chastise us "anti-KO guys" for buying legitimate figures because we're not supporting the original designers is utter garbage. That's the whole basis of being paid for your work, you give up ownership rights.

And personally, it's not about supporting "the corporations" Rated X so vehermently decries, I just want legitimate figures in my collection. That's my personal preference, nothing more nothing less.

If you want nice little shiney things on your shelves and you don't care who made it, go right ahead. That's your decision, how you collect is your decision, I collect in my own way and if people can't accept that, well I just don't care. Call me all the names you want, criticise my choices all you want, it means NOTHING to me what you think because it's MY collection.
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Re: KO MP-16 Frenzy and Buzzsaw

Postby merphul » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:31 pm

You can self justify all you want, but there's a key difference between KO and a HasTak or even TP product. One design is stolen and the other is not. So you can argue about affordability and availability all you want, but when you support unscrupulous people you are taking some of the guilt onto yourself.

Whether that matters or not to you is each individual's decision. For me, at least part of the cool factor is having a genuine original product, to the point where I'm willing to pay a lot more for an '84 1st run toy than a re-release. On the other hand there's the value side of it. My collection has meaning to me not only because I love the toys I have, but because some of them are limited release items. Releases of high quality KO's can kill the potential value of the real thing. While I haven't sold anything yet, one day I might and I'd like to think the $100+ I sank into an MP is holding up or maybe even worth more because I have something cool AND rare. And that's another part of it, it's cool to have things in your collection because they are rare, because not everyone will have one. If KO's make something common, then we all lose something.

Keeping in mind that HasTak does what all companies do, try to make as much money as possible, and tactics such as re-releases and redecos are blatant moves to cash in, something I try not to support too much. But this mentality underlines the most important reason to choose to buy the real thing at a somewhat higher price than a cheaper alternative. HasTak are the ones that develops these toys and they expect to make money off of them. If there comes a day when they don't see a return on the investment they make in developing and producing high end figures like MP's, then they'll stop making them. If that horrible day ever happens, don't expect the KO companies to step in and start developing their own original high quality designs, they'll just rip off something else.

While there has been some great third party work they're often hampered by limited resources and the inability to directly reference the product IP. So while I doubt there'll ever be a day when we won't have new high quality figures, it'll be a sad day if TT and Hasbro backs out of that market.
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Transformers Podcast: Twincast / Podcast #346 - Gas Station Jamboree
Twincast / Podcast #346:
"Gas Station Jamboree"
MP3 · iTunes · RSS · View · Discuss · Ask
Posted: Saturday, March 23rd, 2024

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