War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby william-james88 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:55 pm

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ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:
Seibertron wrote:Optimus Primal is definitely the improvement of this group.
It's to be expected considering he had the least cheated design of the Season 1 Maximals and the main thing holding the original toy back in beast mode was a gimmick.


Wouldn't it be the reverse? If Primal had very little holding his original toy back, then wouldn't it be harder for an update to be a huge improvement compared to the others who didn't even have accurate looking modes?
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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby Jelze Bunnycat » Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:49 pm

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william-james88 wrote:
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:
Seibertron wrote:Optimus Primal is definitely the improvement of this group.
It's to be expected considering he had the least cheated design of the Season 1 Maximals and the main thing holding the original toy back in beast mode was a gimmick.


Wouldn't it be the reverse? If Primal had very little holding his original toy back, then wouldn't it be harder for an update to be a huge improvement compared to the others who didn't even have accurate looking modes?


Depends on what ones qualifications are for "improvement"; like how similar the two toys compared are? If they're a completely different design or transformation, it's less an improvement of an existing design and more of a reinterpretation? :-?

Not counting Cybertron Primal and Megatron, I only have Universe 2008 Cheetor out of the "Neo-BW" figures, and that design is... mediocre at best with the ambitious gimmick bringing the whole toy down. From what I've seen, Kingdom Cheetor will end up the better figure by far (not that that says much...). Gen. and Kingdom Rattrap and Rhinox will be tougher to judge.

And don't forget, BW Primal was used as late as Legends, that says a lot about how the design has held up.
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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby ZeldaTheSwordsman » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:06 am

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william-james88 wrote:
ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:
Seibertron wrote:Optimus Primal is definitely the improvement of this group.
It's to be expected considering he had the least cheated design of the Season 1 Maximals and the main thing holding the original toy back in beast mode was a gimmick.


Wouldn't it be the reverse? If Primal had very little holding his original toy back, then wouldn't it be harder for an update to be a huge improvement compared to the others who didn't even have accurate looking modes?
If you're looking at it from the perspective of room for improvement, then yes it would be harder. But I'm looking at it from the perspective of obstacles to improvement.

I say Primal is easier to improve because it's easier, and more feasible, to improve a toy when you only have to make one change to get from the original beast mode to an improved version. Especially when that change is not including a spring-loaded gear gimmick that flails the arms.

Cheetor and Rattrap on the other hand had more standing in their way when it comes to being able to make improvements.
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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby blackeyedprime » Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:31 am

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Classics cheetor just needs his arm boats unscrewing and some 3d printed shoulder parts adding and it will look better than Kingdoms from the front at least, not much can be done about the classics back/gimmick. Should be easier to do than replacing Kingdoms legs with the original figures *edit or maybe REDs would work better for it but might as well just get the red version as a lot more modding is needed for the upper portion over what could be done to make the classics figure look better.
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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby ZeldaTheSwordsman » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:28 am

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blackeyedprime wrote:Classics cheetor just needs his arm boats unscrewing and some 3d printed shoulder parts adding and it will look better than Kingdoms from the front at least, not much can be done about the classics back/gimmick.
Also not much that can be done about him having a skinny, stretched-looking robot torso because of the beast mode getting prioritized. And you know, what you're suggesting sounds an awful lot like non-weapon partsforming or even making him nontransforming, so how is that an improvement again?

blackeyedprime wrote:Should be easier to do than replacing Kingdoms legs with the original figures *edit or maybe REDs would work better for it but might as well just get the red version as a lot more modding is needed for the upper portion over what could be done to make the classics figure look better.
Okay, let's compare Cheetors here, especially since you're talking about the robot mode legs.

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Original and Universe.

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Masterpiece.

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Kingdom.

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Show screencap for good measure.

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So, let's look at those robot legs. Obviously, Kingdom Cheetor's aren't perfect. But they do resemble the show/original toy legs as best they can while producing much better-looking hindlegs and hindpaws in beast mode (as opposed to the original toy having what can be described as cat paw-themed boots).
Meanwhile, Universe Cheetor's robot legs look pretty much nothing like the show and just straight-up do the thing of having the beast mode feet double as the robot feet, which certainly isn't a match.

But sure, the stretched skinny hunchbacked beastfooted-in-robot-mode figure is the one that needs less modding. Right.

I think you *ahem* don't have a leg to stand on.
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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby blackeyedprime » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:55 am

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Nah the only pieces I like on Kingdoms is the groin plate and back kibble. with the few mods, classics would look sorta like an evo version of him in the style of hotrod/rodimus. Shame Cyberverse didnt get a better Cheetor or that might have been another option over the Kingdom figure.
I'd rather catpaw boot knightesque feet that folding vice clamps. The kingdom upper is a mess and the arms would have benefited from some kingd of beast plates like the show model (and obviously nothing like the canoe esque attachments of the classics).
If I have to have non transforming cheetor that looks good over a mess of one that does, ce la vie. Maybe kingdoms Tigertron will make for a better repaint into Cheetor but will have to wait and see how it looks -size will be off but it will be a nod to original toys so maybe it will be do able.
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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby Lunatic Prime » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:54 am

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blackeyedprime wrote:Shame Cyberverse didnt get a better Cheetor or that might have been another option over the Kingdom figure.

To me Spark Armor Cheetor is pretty solid. He looks good to great in both modes and has no kibble at all. OK, not even the one he should have. And of course he could benefit from some more paint apps as pretty much every figure would nowadays. And he lacks his swords from the show. I gave him the ones from DNA Design's upgrade kit for PotP Optimal Optimus but they are way too big. From hilt tip to blade tip they are longer than him standing up in robot mode. But there was another BAF Deluxe class wave announced for Cyberverse. I hope they didn't cancel it. There are quiet a couple of figures I'd like to get with the Deluxe class treatment. The only ones that had been announced for this wave so far were Soundwave, Starscream and Prowl. So 5 to go. But I want so many more... :lol:
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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby King Kuuga » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:17 am

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blackeyedprime wrote:If I have to have non transforming cheetor that looks good over a mess of one that does, ce la vie. Maybe kingdoms Tigertron will make for a better repaint into Cheetor but will have to wait and see how it looks -size will be off but it will be a nod to original toys so maybe it will be do able.

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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby Seibertron » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:17 pm

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I'm finishing cropping the Cyclonus images for his gallery. Comparison pictures for all 11 of these figures took much longer than expected, especially thanks to the Masterpiece Beast Wars figures. Broke a tab on Masterpiece Beast Wars Megatron too ... urgh!
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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby Seibertron » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:22 pm

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Here are a few more comparison pics of the Core Class figures in the meantime ...

Rattrap "standing" alongside his Generations / Legends counterpart ...

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Optimus Prime between Hybrid Convoy and a Legends Class Optimus Prime (not sure which version I grabbed)

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And Vertebreak alongside his fellow Predacons and Decepticon Cyclonus.

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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby Overcracker » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:19 pm

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blackeyedprime wrote:If I have to have non transforming cheetor that looks good over a mess of one that does, ce la vie. Maybe kingdoms Tigertron will make for a better repaint into Cheetor but will have to wait and see how it looks -size will be off but it will be a nod to original toys so maybe it will be do able.


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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby Seibertron » Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:27 pm

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I think Cheetor is a better toy than what he's being perceived as, even with my comments/thoughts. It's a good toy ... it's just not leaps and bounds better than what we've had before, which is exemplified by a pretty stellar mini-Masterpiece Optimus Primal. I like the new Cheetor, just wish he had his original guns and some more poseability in beast mode (particularly with his neck/head). The odd light blue color doesn't help things either. It's a good toy, just not a "wow, this toy is so amazing!" that so many other toys have ranked as lately.
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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby Seibertron » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:31 pm

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More pics ...

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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby Sabrblade » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:42 pm

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How do you find Core class Optimus Prime? Some were previously considering him to be the weakest link of Wave 1, with some even hating on him. But in your pics, it looks like it might be an okay figure. Any thoughts on that little guy?
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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby Seibertron » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:54 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:How do you find Core class Optimus Prime? Some were previously considering him to be the weakest link of Wave 1, with some even hating on him. But in your pics, it looks like it might be an okay figure. Any thoughts on that little guy?


It's an inexpensive Optimus Prime figure, intended for the kiddies. It's a great sculpt for the most part. Not a big fan of the overly large ball joints in the elbows and the truck mode is a little "tall", but other than that, it's a great little Optimus Prime figure. It's better than Hybrid Convoy, which I've never liked, and much better than the Reveal the Shield / Family Dollar "Legends" Optimus Prime.

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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby Sabrblade » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:00 pm

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Seibertron wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:How do you find Core class Optimus Prime? Some were previously considering him to be the weakest link of Wave 1, with some even hating on him. But in your pics, it looks like it might be an okay figure. Any thoughts on that little guy?


It's a cheap little Optimus Prime figure, probably intended for the kiddies. It's a great sculpt for the most part. Not a big fan of the overly large ball joints in the elbows and the truck mode is a little "tall", but other than that, it's a great little Optimus Prime figure. It's better than Hybrid Convoy, which I've never liked, and much better than the Reveal the Shield / Family Dollar "Legends" Optimus Prime.
It looks like it could be a good match for the dollar store Authentics figures (I own the Megatron and Grimlock ones, in both the big and little sizes), certainly better than the actual Authentics Optimus toys.
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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby Seibertron » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:04 pm

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Seibertron wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:How do you find Core class Optimus Prime? Some were previously considering him to be the weakest link of Wave 1, with some even hating on him. But in your pics, it looks like it might be an okay figure. Any thoughts on that little guy?


More thoughts ...

I'd really like to see Hot Rod and Galvatron done at this scale to go with Unicron. I think it'd be fantastic. Optimus Prime also needs a Megatron in this scale.

In addition, I'd really like to get the first season Beast Wars cast in this scale. It'd be great to have a small class of Beast Wars guys finally. It's never been done before and they'd technically be "in scale" with the larger G1 characters. Plus, if they did enough of them, it'd be really awesome to have a "Core Class" Transmetal Megatron to go ape-shit on Masterpiece G1 Optimus Prime after all these years.

Basically, I'd just like to see Hasbro and Takara stick with a small scale long enough to go really deep with the character roster. I don't understand why this small scale doesn't really take off and be a focus. Scale be damned. It'd just be awesome to have a really massive full line of small toys representing the main characters.
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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby Sabrblade » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:18 pm

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Seibertron wrote:
Seibertron wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:How do you find Core class Optimus Prime? Some were previously considering him to be the weakest link of Wave 1, with some even hating on him. But in your pics, it looks like it might be an okay figure. Any thoughts on that little guy?


More thoughts ...

I'd really like to see Hot Rod and Galvatron done at this scale to go with Unicron. I think it'd be fantastic. Optimus Prime also needs a Megatron in this scale.

In addition, I'd really like to get the first season Beast Wars cast in this scale. It'd be great to have a small class of Beast Wars guys finally. It's never been done before and they'd technically be "in scale" with the larger G1 characters. Plus, if they did enough of them, it'd be really awesome to have a "Core Class" Transmetal Megatron to go ape-shit on Masterpiece G1 Optimus Prime after all these years.

Basically, I'd just like to see Hasbro and Takara stick with a small scale long enough to go really deep with the character roster. I don't understand why this small scale doesn't really take off and be a focus. Scale be damned. It'd just be awesome to have a really massive full line of small toys representing the main characters.
The credible leaks have mentioned that we are getting Core class figures of G1 Megatron, G1 Starscream, and G1 Soundwave.
Last edited by Sabrblade on Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby Seibertron » Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:19 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:
Seibertron wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:How do you find Core class Optimus Prime? Some were previously considering him to be the weakest link of Wave 1, with some even hating on him. But in your pics, it looks like it might be an okay figure. Any thoughts on that little guy?


It's a cheap little Optimus Prime figure, probably intended for the kiddies. It's a great sculpt for the most part. Not a big fan of the overly large ball joints in the elbows and the truck mode is a little "tall", but other than that, it's a great little Optimus Prime figure. It's better than Hybrid Convoy, which I've never liked, and much better than the Reveal the Shield / Family Dollar "Legends" Optimus Prime.
It looks like it could be a good match for the dollar store Authentics figures (I own the Megatron and Grimlock ones, in both the big and little sizes), certainly better than the actual Authentics Optimus toys.


It's smaller than the Authentics Optimus. That would be a great figure to add to the gallery for comparisons. Maybe I'll bust out Authentics Optimus Prime tomorrow for it.
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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby Seibertron » Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:19 pm

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Kingdom WFC-K9 Voyager Class Cyclonus full gallery can be found here: new-galleries-transformers-war-for-cybertron-kingdom-t115570.php
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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby just_aCloud » Mon Nov 23, 2020 9:47 am

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Seibertron wrote:I think Cheetor is a better toy than what he's being perceived as, even with my comments/thoughts. It's a good toy ... it's just not leaps and bounds better than what we've had before, which is exemplified by a pretty stellar mini-Masterpiece Optimus Primal. I like the new Cheetor, just wish he had his original guns and some more poseability in beast mode (particularly with his neck/head). The odd light blue color doesn't help things either. It's a good toy, just not a "wow, this toy is so amazing!" that so many other toys have ranked as lately.
For me it was the legs and the lack of gun. I find this figure to be absolutely amazing otherwise (I mean, just from looking at pix, obviously). Color scheme is fine, robot mode upper body is really cool because it's "Cheetor" but also a bit different. It's just the legs...the legs just aren't "Cheetor" to me. After a good bit of back-and-forth, I cancelled my preorder. Maybe the Netflix release will have enough differences to fulfill what I'm looking for (even though the legs will be the same). I actually really love this mold's head, chest, shoulders, and arms. The legs just kill it for me.

Seibertron wrote:Basically, I'd just like to see Hasbro and Takara stick with a small scale long enough to go really deep with the character roster. I don't understand why this small scale doesn't really take off and be a focus. Scale be damned. It'd just be awesome to have a really massive full line of small toys representing the main characters.
Agreed! This would be great! I can't be the only person who likes "desk-formers" that you mess with while at work. I'd put the entire BW roster on my desk if they made 'em mini.
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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby aronjlove » Mon Nov 23, 2020 10:10 am

Bone Age wrote:
Seibertron wrote:Basically, I'd just like to see Hasbro and Takara stick with a small scale long enough to go really deep with the character roster. I don't understand why this small scale doesn't really take off and be a focus. Scale be damned. It'd just be awesome to have a really massive full line of small toys representing the main characters.
Agreed! This would be great! I can't be the only person who likes "desk-formers" that you mess with while at work. I'd put the entire BW roster on my desk if they made 'em mini.
I second this motion! All the core-class figures are buy on sight. I'd even be willing to pay deluxe-class price if they gave the figures enough articulation, much like the ER Cliffjumper mold. Iron Factory makes a living doing so, wish Hasbro/Takara would do the same.
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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby ZeldaTheSwordsman » Mon Nov 23, 2020 8:24 pm

Motto: "Why are Beast Hunters Ultimate/Dragon Attack Optimus' sword and shield so hard to find?"
blackeyedprime wrote:Nah the only pieces I like on Kingdoms is the groin plate and back kibble. with the few mods, classics would look sorta like an evo version of him in the style of hotrod/rodimus.
A stretched evo version with a hunchback.


blackeyedprime wrote:I'd rather catpaw boot knightesque feet that folding vice clamps.
Just to be clear, when I said "cat paw boots", I was talking about the original toy's beast mode:
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Seriously, look at those hindpaws. That just looks goofy.

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Here's a more dynamically-posed pic of Kingdom Cheetor. The robot legs are hardly "foldingvice clamps", and the grey-painted areas come as close as can be done to the show within the limits of a retail toy. It would look better either with filler plugs or if the paw could tuck inside, but it's not that bad IMO.

blackeyedprime wrote:The kingdom upper is a mess and the arms would have benefited from some kingd of beast plates like the show model (and obviously nothing like the canoe esque attachments of the classics).
Looking at the above, he actually does have them; they just don't show in a lot of pics. And what exactly is "a mess" aside from the cheetah head not flattening out?

blackeyedprime wrote:If I have to have non transforming cheetor that looks good over a mess of one that does, ce la vie. Maybe kingdoms Tigertron will make for a better repaint into Cheetor but will have to wait and see how it looks -size will be off but it will be a nod to original toys so maybe it will be do able.
I think you're not giving him enough credit, to be honest.

I'm more bothered by the lack of either of his guns.
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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby bacem » Tue Nov 24, 2020 1:54 am

A question to seibertron, does kingdom optimus has any difference compared to earthrise optimus? And if it is not much of a hassle, can i ask for a side by side comparison pic?
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Re: War for Cybertron Kingdom Discussion The Beasts Return!

Postby -Kanrabat- » Tue Nov 24, 2020 4:31 am

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bacem wrote:A question to seibertron, does kingdom optimus has any difference compared to earthrise optimus? And if it is not much of a hassle, can i ask for a side by side comparison pic?

You mean the Leader?
It's just a straight re-release. Like for Arcee in Kingdom, and Siege Astrotrain in Earthrise.
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